Dim Lowers DHT ?????

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    Dim Lowers DHT ?????


    I been doing a estrogen detox that calls for me to change diet and cut out refined sugars and etc eat more fruits vegetables, nuts, basically the paleo diet.

    but it has me taking dim daily and uping the dosage as the days goes on. is it true that dim also inhibits dht, if so this would explain why my genitals are shrinking more. I was always told dim inhibits estrogens only. dht is needed for penis health correct.


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    DIm does not lower DHT in serum, but may lower androgens at the receptor level with in the prostate. Every ones dosage of DIM is different plus there is only one brand that actually I have found to work with patients.

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    if it affects the receptors that all that should matter right.
    I dont know whether I should keep taking the dim or not with the detox my dim is from my doctors clinic its made of 500mg curcumin , dim 150mg, bioperine 5mg.

    my urine is a dark copper now , I assume from the dim. increased sweating and my genitals seem to be getting worse with function, sensitivity, size, appearance. its like my body is screaming for testosterone . trying to see if my doctor will prescribe clomid. or find one that will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theoh View Post
    if it affects the receptors that all that should matter right.
    I dont know whether I should keep taking the dim or not with the detox my dim is from my doctors clinic its made of 500mg curcumin , dim 150mg, bioperine 5mg.

    my urine is a dark copper now , I assume from the dim. increased sweating and my genitals seem to be getting worse with function, sensitivity, size, appearance. its like my body is screaming for testosterone . trying to see if my doctor will prescribe clomid. or find one that will.
    clomid may not be a bad option, but still other factors need to be properly examined to rule out where the imbalances are occuring. These issues need to be dealt with accordingly simulataneously with clomid usage. You are not a medical dr so you can not go on assumption. This is one of the biggest mistakes drs patient/clients make trying to think they know more then the professional helping them. This train of thought only results in retarding one getting well by up to several months or even a year. Once you are on the ship ride it out and do not jump off so fast. You may be swept out to sea..

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    Quote Originally Posted by theoh View Post
    if it affects the receptors that all that should matter right.
    I dont know whether I should keep taking the dim or not with the detox my dim is from my doctors clinic its made of 500mg curcumin , dim 150mg, bioperine 5mg.

    my urine is a dark copper now , I assume from the dim. increased sweating and my genitals seem to be getting worse with function, sensitivity, size, appearance. its like my body is screaming for testosterone . trying to see if my doctor will prescribe clomid. or find one that will.
    your dim sucks the only one that will remotely work is the enzymatic therapy dim (for women btw)

    the reason your **** is shrinking is because of curcumin, you didn't tell that in the other forum

    bioperine plus curcumin is super availability and as you know on the other board there have been a handful of people who also had this issue with curcumin and quit it for a couple weeks and they felt better! for ppl like us in sexually exhausted states this small amount of curcumin will be even worse although curcumin in itself should be pretty good

    so in essence the curcumin is blotting out the positive effects of the dim

    get yourself on some real indolplex dim with your e2 level go 2 tabs and see the magic start to happen

    also start incorporating more saturated fats and more meat in your diet this has helped me immensely

    i know the matrix is gonna chime in and say i am overthinking things but if i get a clinical response from dim and a clinical response from aromasin and a clinical response from meat/fats this should tell you enough it's not in your head

    you've been on hcg/test cream for a month or 6 weeks or so now

    like dr john mentioned on his board he is now an advocate of clomid use, but if i were you i would run clomid at 12.5 mg for a 4 weeks or so and then discontinue it, and get on indolplex dim 2 tabs a day

    you also need isocort in the morning only take 4 pellets this should equal about 7.5-10 mg of hydrocortisone and should be good enough for your low am cortisol saliva level

    o yeah eat some more real butter, bacon slices, a piece of steak every evening and some fat yoghurt

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    Quote Originally Posted by theoh View Post
    if it affects the receptors that all that should matter right.
    I dont know whether I should keep taking the dim or not with the detox my dim is from my doctors clinic its made of 500mg curcumin , dim 150mg, bioperine 5mg.

    my urine is a dark copper now , I assume from the dim. increased sweating and my genitals seem to be getting worse with function, sensitivity, size, appearance. its like my body is screaming for testosterone . trying to see if my doctor will prescribe clomid. or find one that will.
    DIM works quite well for me. As Matrix said, if it isn't working, it is probably the brand you are using (even if it is from your doctor, sorry).
    The symptoms you describe (increased sweating and my genitals seem to be getting worse with function, sensitivity, size, appearance) are all symptoms of excess estrogen.
    Curcumin is also used as a food dye. It is partially responsible for the color of your urine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    DIM works quite well for me. As Matrix said, if it isn't working, it is probably the brand you are using (even if it is from your doctor, sorry).
    The symptoms you describe (increased sweating and my genitals seem to be getting worse with function, sensitivity, size, appearance) are all symptoms of excess estrogen.
    Curcumin is also used as a food dye. It is partially responsible for the color of your urine.
    u still using 2 tabs indolplex succesfully? no need to go higher, or did you try 3 tabs to see how it affects your wood?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cumkwakka View Post
    u still using 2 tabs indolplex succesfully? no need to go higher, or did you try 3 tabs to see how it affects your wood?
    People that are undermethylated need to be careful with dim because it could back fires since methylation is needed not only to detox estrogen metabolites but also to make 2-OHE biolgoically active to function. Could be one basis for way undermethylation increases cancer risk..

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    Quote Originally Posted by cumkwakka View Post
    u still using 2 tabs indolplex succesfully? no need to go higher, or did you try 3 tabs to see how it affects your wood?
    Actually, I've been playing guinea pig and trying different brands. That's how I am becoming aware of how important a specific brand is. One well known brand reports that you have to use 200mg minimum to be effective, but after using it for 2 weeks, my blood test showed that my e2 had gone up from 15 to 27pg/dL. I am trying a different brand now and will get another blood test next week.
    And, at HANS suggestion I am making sure to use TMG with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    Actually, I've been playing guinea pig and trying different brands. That's how I am becoming aware of how important a specific brand is. One well known brand reports that you have to use 200mg minimum to be effective, but after using it for 2 weeks, my blood test showed that my e2 had gone up from 15 to 27pg/dL. I am trying a different brand now and will get another blood test next week.
    And, at HANS suggestion I am making sure to use TMG with it.
    One has to be careful when dealing with this issue because if you have upregulated CBS pathways then TMG would be counter productive. This is why proper cellular testing is needed to help make these common mistakes.
    TMG is general guideline, but in my chemistry and many others I have worked with it can be diasterous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRider View Post
    Actually, I've been playing guinea pig and trying different brands. That's how I am becoming aware of how important a specific brand is. One well known brand reports that you have to use 200mg minimum to be effective, but after using it for 2 weeks, my blood test showed that my e2 had gone up from 15 to 27pg/dL. I am trying a different brand now and will get another blood test next week.
    And, at HANS suggestion I am making sure to use TMG with it.
    bizarre

    which test did you use? estradiol sensitive?

    so indolplex lowered it from 37 to 15 on 2 tabs in three weeks

    and this brand was? and it increased it how are you feeling on this brand of dim, do you still get the darker urine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cumkwakka View Post
    bizarre

    which test did you use? estradiol sensitive?

    so indolplex lowered it from 37 to 15 on 2 tabs in three weeks

    and this brand was? and it increased it how are you feeling on this brand of dim, do you still get the darker urine?
    Yes, I always get the sensitive test.

    I'm leary of posting specific brand names on the open board. I don't want to break any board rules or risk being accused of slandering someones product.

    The first one I used worked well. The one I'm currently using, I am not sure about yet. I feel okay, but I'm still trying to lower my level from the last brand I tried, so my buddy isn't responding yet. Between a little more time and another blood test, I should know more in about a week.

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    Matrix please im pretty desperate, how do you know if TMG will affect you positively or not? I mean what are the labs or results you can use as a clue in finding out if your CBS pathways are ok or not. Im in a protocol of Methyl B12 Methyl Folate, P5P and 3grams of TMG Betaine per day in an attempt to beging fixing my estrogen metabolism in the liver (its just a theory, there are other several reasons for high estrogen, I know). My labs of the matter are the following:

    ESTRADIOL SENSITIVE- 53 pg/mL (11-44 pg/mL)

    HIDROXILISINE-1 <0.81 mg/L Reference range: <6

    HIDROXIPROLINE <0.66 MG/L Reference range: <4.5

    HISTIDINE 19 mg/L Reference range: 7 - 16.5

    ISOLEUCINE 7 mg/L Reference range: 3 - 11

    LEUCINE 13.51 mg/L Reference range: 6 - 23

    LISINE 10.53 mg/L Reference range: 8 - 30

    METHIONINE 2.24 mg/L Reference range: 1 - 8

    3-METHILHISTIDINE <0.85 mg/L Reference range <1.7

    ORNITINE 2.27 mg/L Reference range: < 13.5

    PROLINE 11.63 mg/L Reference range: 5 - 34.5

    SERINE 9.46 mg/L Reference range: 4.5 - 23

    TAURINE 7 mg/L Reference range: 10-27

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    Cumwakka (can I call you pimp? haha), so curcumin is actually THAT bad??

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    Dim decreases the androgen receptors with in the prostate which DHT is associated with. The total biological effects are not known yet. I would monitor blood work every 3 weeks to see if there are changes. There could be multiple factors involved some known other not known. I would chill it with fruits 1 serving a day if that due to possible fructose sensitivty. Less carbs will lower testosterone in some people as total calores are also reduced from this eating pattern. Basically from what I am seeing I am seeing major malabsorption issues going on which if protein is being not being absorb then other nutrients are not as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by theoh View Post
    I been doing a estrogen detox that calls for me to change diet and cut out refined sugars and etc eat more fruits vegetables, nuts, basically the paleo diet.

    but it has me taking dim daily and uping the dosage as the days goes on. is it true that dim also inhibits dht, if so this would explain why my genitals are shrinking more. I was always told dim inhibits estrogens only. dht is needed for penis health correct.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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    The Matrix could you take a look to my former comment? I need your knowledge! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFFFFFFFFFFF View Post
    The Matrix could you take a look to my former comment? I need your knowledge! Thanks
    You are far from CBS issues actual its underactive. If taurine was high then one can figure alteration in CBS, but not so here. You got way too crap going on and your methylation is spinning out of control. Where every you go this protocol from they where complete morons and you are risking doing more damage. You better start back at ground zero and add one thing in at a time in a balanced approach then you will truly know what is working and what is not. Considering you have GI issues makes me wonder if you are even assilmilating any of what you are taking in.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You are far from CBS issues actual its underactive. If taurine was high then one can figure alteration in CBS, but not so here. You got way too crap going on and your methylation is spinning out of control. Where every you go this protocol from they where complete morons and you are risking doing more damage. You better start back at ground zero and add one thing in at a time in a balanced approach then you will truly know what is working and what is not. Considering you have GI issues makes me wonder if you are even assilmilating any of what you are taking in.
    You sound a lot like HANS with that. Anyway, I dont know whats up with this tendency of the people on the forums to bash frenchiman lol obviously he is wrong but good intentioned. I have some questions, andplease answer to me, im really near to lose control, I have been like this for two years now and madness is growing strong.

    Why you think I have GI tract issues? Because of the low absorption of aminos?

    I will drop every single supplement I was using, and I will alert people on the forum I came from about the so called "methyl supps".

    Is Milk Thistle good or bad for me?

    So, when I see Dr Hertogue in just 13 days, I need to ask for VITAMINS, AMINOACIDS, HORMONES, MINERALS, NEUROS, LIVER and HEAVY METALS test right? This my last chance and I want to do it right.If this doctor fail I will kill myself or end in a pysquiatric institution, because if that happens my fathers and all the other people will just turn their backs to me... God I have been such an *******... enough whining.

    Ok please respond here to these questions or do it in the thread im gonna start right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFFFFFFFFFFF View Post
    You sound a lot like HANS with that. Anyway, I dont know whats up with this tendency of the people on the forums to bash frenchiman lol obviously he is wrong but good intentioned. I have some questions, andplease answer to me, im really near to lose control, I have been like this for two years now and madness is growing strong.

    Why you think I have GI tract issues? Because of the low absorption of aminos?


    I will drop every single supplement I was using, and I will alert people on the forum I came from about the so called "methyl supps".

    Is Milk Thistle good or bad for me?

    So, when I see Dr Hertogue in just 13 days, I need to ask for VITAMINS, AMINOACIDS, HORMONES, MINERALS, NEUROS, LIVER and HEAVY METALS test right? This my last chance and I want to do it right.If this doctor fail I will kill myself or end in a pysquiatric institution, because if that happens my fathers and all the other people will just turn their backs to me... God I have been such an *******... enough whining.

    Ok please respond here to these questions or do it in the thread im gonna start right now.
    Low amino acid yes indication on possible malabsorption issues

    For methylation review
    http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_The_Methylation_Cycle

    Gi and immune issues are at core source of just about every issue. People on here are finally starting to get the message and are acting upon it accordingly with significant improvements in health.

    These test should come in panels probably one big one. Also recommend dybiosis, or OAT

    Milk thistle I would hold off till you know where the imbalances are in your liver.

    I no longer use milk thistle and go straight to heart with glutathione.

    2 years is nothing you are still young and have so much to live never give up hope. Dr hertogue will gather the data, what he does with it is a whole different situations. I had a guy few years a go went to him, He sent me his lab work and a ton of stuff was over looked. These type of Dr's rarely spend time, and it was not him he was seeing it was his assistance. I do not know if he was just off that day or what but a lot of things were over looked which was crucial to his case. 2 years I have a friend coming up which will give the top Dr's a run for their money. Especially when we will be working together on cases. I also have people with celebrity status I am working with now who are not well, but you would never know it.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Low amino acid yes indication on possible malabsorption issues

    Gi and immune issues are at core source of just about every issue. People on here are finally starting to get the message and are acting upon it accordingly with significant improvements in health.

    These test should come in panels probably one big one. Also recommend dybiosis, or OAT

    Milk thistle I would hold off till you know where the imbalances are in your liver.

    I no longer use milk thistle and go straight to heart with glutathione.

    2 years is nothing you are still young and have so much to live never give up hope. Dr hertogue will gather the data, what he does with it is a whole different situations. I had a guy few years a go went to him, He sent me his lab work and a ton of stuff was over looked. These type of Dr's rarely spend time, and it was not him he was seeing it was his assistance. I do not know if he was just off that day or what but a lot of things were over looked which was crucial to his case. 2 years I have a friend coming up which will give the top Dr's a run for their money. Especially when we will be working together on cases. I also have people with celebrity status I am working with now who are not well, but you would never know it.
    People on the USA dont get it. Here in Spain I have been to 10 doctors and all of them said I was fine. THEY SAID I AM FINE DONT YOU GET IT?? I have severe ED and a bunch of things more but when doctors says you are fine your parents and everyone just believes the doctors and you end up in a psyquiatric. Right now I have pain/discomfort in the penis, rectum and prostate, as an example of how screwed I am.

    I really hope Dr Hertogue then at least does the necessary tests. I believe you, I saw another guy saying this doctor is only good for testing lol
    Funny that in this miserable world of medicine even finding a doctor that DOES THE NECESSARY TESTS is sooooo difficult and then finding one that actualy can DO SOMETHING to heal you with those results haha boy that is really rare.

    I have been actually 3 years like this, but the first year I still had libido and was a lot better, but the problems begun back then, when I started using ODABAN...

    Thank you a lot for your interest... of course I dont wanna die but... well my situation is very very awful... I tried to explain to you that if Hertogue says im fine no one will believe me... they just think all you wise guys on the forums are hypochondriac or something...people are ****ing stupid and you cant go against their mental programmation... if doctors says im fine, then im fine and they want me on antidepressants which of course only ****s you up a lot more. Hahaha yeah my life is a huge irony, a huge, ugly joke.

    Could you please put me a list fo the specific testing I should get done?

    Im still waiting for my thread to get approved. In it you can look at my other issues... a lot of them

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    To give you a little incentive, out of over 1,000 cases I have dealt medically with Dr's. There were only 2 which could not have biological explaination giving them all the benefit of the doubt according to latest functional medicine methodology. Thread should not wait to get approved LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by WTFFFFFFFFFFF View Post
    People on the USA dont get it. Here in Spain I have been to 10 doctors and all of them said I was fine. THEY SAID I AM FINE DONT YOU GET IT?? I have severe ED and a bunch of things more but when doctors says you are fine your parents and everyone just believes the doctors and you end up in a psyquiatric. Right now I have pain/discomfort in the penis, rectum and prostate, as an example of how screwed I am.

    I really hope Dr Hertogue then at least does the necessary tests. I believe you, I saw another guy saying this doctor is only good for testing lol
    Funny that in this miserable world of medicine even finding a doctor that DOES THE NECESSARY TESTS is sooooo difficult and then finding one that actualy can DO SOMETHING to heal you with those results haha boy that is really rare.

    I have been actually 3 years like this, but the first year I still had libido and was a lot better, but the problems begun back then, when I started using ODABAN...

    Thank you a lot for your interest... of course I dont wanna die but... well my situation is very very awful... I tried to explain to you that if Hertogue says im fine no one will believe me... they just think all you wise guys on the forums are hypochondriac or something...people are ****ing stupid and you cant go against their mental programmation... if doctors says im fine, then im fine and they want me on antidepressants which of course only ****s you up a lot more. Hahaha yeah my life is a huge irony, a huge, ugly joke.

    Could you please put me a list fo the specific testing I should get done?

    Im still waiting for my thread to get approved. In it you can look at my other issues... a lot of them
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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    WTF try stay positive. Alot of people have similar issues

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    Yeah im just a BIT (sic) melodramatic.

    Hehe with my name I dont know if you were calling me or saying "WTF"

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    Quote Originally Posted by cumkwakka

    your dim sucks the only one that will remotely work is the enzymatic therapy dim (for women btw)

    the reason your **** is shrinking is because of curcumin, you didn't tell that in the other forum

    bioperine plus curcumin is super availability and as you know on the other board there have been a handful of people who also had this issue with curcumin and quit it for a couple weeks and they felt better! for ppl like us in sexually exhausted states this small amount of curcumin will be even worse although curcumin in itself should be pretty good

    so in essence the curcumin is blotting out the positive effects of the dim

    get yourself on some real indolplex dim with your e2 level go 2 tabs and see the magic start to happen

    also start incorporating more saturated fats and more meat in your diet this has helped me immensely

    i know the matrix is gonna chime in and say i am overthinking things but if i get a clinical response from dim and a clinical response from aromasin and a clinical response from meat/fats this should tell you enough it's not in your head

    you've been on hcg/test cream for a month or 6 weeks or so now

    like dr john mentioned on his board he is now an advocate of clomid use, but if i were you i would run clomid at 12.5 mg for a 4 weeks or so and then discontinue it, and get on indolplex dim 2 tabs a day

    you also need isocort in the morning only take 4 pellets this should equal about 7.5-10 mg of hydrocortisone and should be good enough for your low am cortisol saliva level

    o yeah eat some more real butter, bacon slices, a piece of steak every evening and some fat yoghurt
    Should the enzymatic therapy dim be taken by the label or taken when symptoms arise, similar to aridex? The medical person I am working with put me on DIM one or two daily up to 4 daily. I really haven't taken it because I am still getting morning wood and feel good on 100mg test every 4 days. My e2 level last time was in 20's.

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