Test. replacement is rather frustrating, help if you can.
- 01-15-2011, 03:39 PM
Test. replacement is rather frustrating, help if you can.
I have been taking 100 mg of T. Cyp for the last almost 7 weeks and my trough total test was retested 340 (day before next injection). My pre-treatment levels where in the low 200s confirmed by MS/LC. I have seen two HRT specialists one my Endo, and a second whom is a pHD level compound pharmacist. My endo recommends increasing the dose to 120 mg q 5 days, and my pharmacist recommends going to 200 mg every 5 days (big dose I know). I was wondering if anyone else has had a similiar problem? I have had mild improvement in mood, but not much change in libido, body composition, etc.
I had the huge work up including thyroid, cortisol, pituitary panel and was diagnosed with hypogonadal hypogonadism. I am almost 35 years old and have always athletic and have been steadily gaining bad weight despite adequate excercise and diet, along with poor libido, irritability, etc. I basically had all the symptoms, and was diagnosed initially with obstructive sleep apnea after a sleep study. After 2 mos of CPAP I was sleeping better, but still had the other symptoms, so we went exploring down the low testosterone route (as OSA and hypogonadism have almost identical symptoms), and voila it came back very low (twice). Any help would be appreciated regarding lack of response to strong doses of test.
Thanks in advance.
- 01-15-2011, 08:05 PM
01-15-2011, 10:12 PM
My Estrogen panel was within normal limts (low 30s). He did a pretty thorough eval. imo (usually endos are pretty anal). I eat a decent diet, and splurge for a date night with the wife once per week, and excercise vigourously between 5-7 days per week. My follow up Estradiol post initiation of therapy was unchanged from the original (low 30s).
01-16-2011, 01:23 AM
100mg of shots dont do sh*t for me either. Puts me in the 400's. And not enough DHT conversion.
However, 300mg of compounded gel makes me a pornstar. Much higher DHT, levels in the 1000+ng/dl and double the free-t range. Dont even need much E2 control either as the DHT keeps estogen under control.
So dont believe all the hype that shots are the only way to go and gels suck. It seems to be the going notion most places. I bought into and switched to shots and learned my lesson. Now i'm back to my gels and feel great. Will only use shots for running super high doses when doing a steroid cycle, and even then i'm going with quick acting esters.
01-16-2011, 02:06 AM
01-16-2011, 02:04 PM
Some people do quite well on 100mg/wk of cypionate but my issue is a low SHBG which causes me to hypermetabolize the drug leaving nothing left over by the end of the week. With cream, i'm using 150mg 2x per day...morning and night. So, you may not need nearly as high dosage as me, or as frequent...but i can assure you, if you can obtain the same total T with gels, the DHT will be 2/3x higher than shots, offer much more mental affects, libido etc...
01-16-2011, 07:39 PM
01-16-2011, 08:30 PM
01-16-2011, 08:33 PM
01-16-2011, 08:43 PM
340 day before inject probably puts you at 700 day after inject, so its not that bad as an average.
01-17-2011, 04:31 PM
01-18-2011, 02:57 PM
I am currently using a low dose of test-prop now for TRT, shooting eod, and hardly need to use much of an AI. I used to use a lot. I also apply a little bit of test cream to the nads twice per week for DHT. Things are good like this, for me.
I've tried hcg mono, hcg + test-cyp (too much estrogen, not enough DHT), and hcg+creams, and because of transference, I find my current protocol the best, and safest.
01-19-2011, 12:07 AM
01-19-2011, 01:42 AM
I used androgel and in 2 years never "felt" good. My test levels when I started was 180 and my low test symptoms were severe. 200mgs eow of Test-e made me feel a little better, but it wasn't until I upped to 200mg ew that I started feeling like my old self. My doctor wasn't very good and I didn't know about forums like this. There's a lot of knowledge here and guys that really want to help. I hope you feel better soon.
Last edited by omni; 01-19-2011 at 01:43 AM. Reason: spelling
01-19-2011, 09:45 AM
Been on TRT since 2007. Have gone from androgel to Testim to test cyp shots at 100mg every five days BACK to Testim. The gels are just more consistent, and better on mood, etc. No up and down effects. Yes, they are a pain in the ass to use and apply, but they simply maintain levels better. If you need a higher dose, simply use more gel...
01-19-2011, 10:13 AM
01-19-2011, 12:06 PM
01-19-2011, 10:49 PM
01-20-2011, 10:20 AM
I've had issues with trying to get clinics to prescribe both shots and cream simultaneously, even Spectrum surprisingly won't do this. I like the convenience of shots and the steady flow of test, but I don't get enough DHT this way, so I had to get my own t-cream and apply 2-3 times per week to the nads for a boost.
I'm sure E2 levels will be fairly similar even if shooting cyp eod, instead of prop. I've been using prop mainly because of generally less E2 conversion (anecdotal evidence points to it being drier), and using prop forces me to shoot eod.. No delaying the shots due to time constraints, etc.. it forces me to make time, and prop loads up much quicker in slin pins, due to the lower viscosity. I don't know many docs who prescribe prop for TRT though, mostly seen it in the clinics.
Would Overbeck prescribe aromasin? I've been able to source it fine on my own, but it's nice to be on the record with everything. I have much better success with a low dose of aromasin, instead of arimidex, and much better lipid values on it.
01-20-2011, 12:38 PM
02-01-2011, 08:01 PM
Trough level repeated (day before injection) at 704. I will draw a peak level tomorrow (24 hrs post injection). Still taking 150 mg t.cyp q 5 days, and I feel really good at this dose. I saw the endo today and he was very happy that I am seeing results and was okay with keeping the dose where it is currently
02-16-2011, 02:40 PM
02-17-2011, 02:09 PM
I must be one of the fortunate one's that androgel has worked for. I started on androderm around 7 years ago. I hated those patches. They never stuck very well and left burn marks on my skin. Then swithced to the gel, in packet form, not the pump. Been taking 2 packets twice a day on M, W, F, and just two packets on Tu, Th, Sa., and Sun. I get blood work done every 6 months. Just had my test results read to me at the end of last month. My total test was 1226. My doc had me go down to just 2 packets on wednesday to see if we can get my total test to around 1000. When I started my test levels were 240.
02-17-2011, 10:14 PM
With 4 packs of androgel your e2 and dht are probable through the rough.
Just start with 2 packs a day then remeasure after 10 days 2 hours after application on opposite arm you put the gel. Then adjust from there. It is not rocket science and your dr needs to be schooled in proper HRT protocol.
02-19-2011, 09:50 PM
I'm not sure what all they check with my blood work. I know he checks, my liver, cholesterol, triglicerides...and a whole long list of other things. He just always says things look perfect besides one liver enzyme. It is always at 55 and he said they don't worry untill it's over 150, even though normal is around30. I've been on this same dosage for several years now. Is there something I should ask the doc?
If need be I can make a new thread.
02-20-2011, 10:53 AM
02-20-2011, 06:42 PM
02-20-2011, 06:43 PM
02-21-2011, 08:15 AM
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