Rasie SHBG with T3, Unsupervised

[JamieVegas]

I'm at my wits end (again) with the zero libido. I can't even masturbate anymore. Following some advice from others, I stopped attempting to masturbate every few days and have increased my rest period. I now attempt only once per week. Instead of getting better, it has made my libido even worse!

I do not get morning erections or spontaneous erections and cannot maintain an erection long enough for sexual intercourse.

Anyway, I've been dating a very beautiful girl and it has been impossible for me to have sex. She has gone to great lengths to try to get me "up." She still has no idea why I can't. She has never met a male with a similar problem and does not even /believe/ me.

I ordered myself some T3 medication and am currently taking 25mcg, unsupervised. The hope is that it will raise SHBG enough that my HPTA kicks back into gear . Either that, or it will raise SHBG enough that hCG can actually do something positive for my mood/libido.

Are there any symptoms I should watch out for? Am I taking too large of a risk?

How long should I stay on the 25mcg before increasing the dosage.

It has been 3 days, and I feel no different whatsoever.

 

[SouthernCharm]

Have you been to an endo? Id stop taking advice on here and seek medical advice from a licensed physician IMO

good luck bro

 

[JamieVegas]

Thanks.

I have seen multiple endocrinologists. We've tried ibjectible testosterone, hCG, Clomid, Arimdex, pregnenelone, testosterone gel, etc.

The problem is that endocrinologists only know about one way to treat such a problem -- and that's just by adding T. I have low SHBG, so T doesn't help.

Unfortunately, the only way that I know to raise SHBG is by taking T3, so since no doctors will help me do it, I'm just trying it myself.

 

[The Matrix]

Not a good idea to be not supervised because it can make matters worse. I had same mentality years ago and I regret doing it. Since you do not have the knowledge of interaction of how hormones interact with each other you are making a fatal mistake potentially setting u back months or even years. Get with an experienced health professional as my self (medical consultant to drs) or some other medical professional in this field.

Cause of shbg has several factors
obesity
hypothyroid
insulin imbalance
cortisol imbalance

So u are IMO your a ticking time bomb

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm also taking T3 unsupervised... well kindof.. My clinic prescribed me armour / nature thyroid, but instead I've been doing T3-only therapy for my thyroid for over a year now to drive down reverse-T3.

I am taking between 30-50mcg per day. I usually ramp up and down for certain periods.

I've been warned that T3-only therapy will increase my SHBG.... but personally so far, this hasn't happened.

In my current TRT, my test levels are around 700 (I usually keep it over 1000), but my % free-T is way over range, almost double.

FWIW - I use aromasin as my AI of choice. Since it's a steroidal suicide inhibitor, it raises free T (and my libido) far more than arimidex ever did, plus it is safe on lipids and raises IGF-1. Using 12.5mg eod currently, but have gone as high as 24mg ED (when using more test) without libido issues or dry joints.

 

[Gutterpump]

Not a good idea to be not supervised because it can make matters worse. I had same mentality years ago and I regret doing it. Since you do not have the knowledge of interaction of how hormones interact with each other you are making a fatal mistake potentially setting u back months or even years. Get with an experienced health professional as my self (medical consultant to drs) or some other medical professional in this field.

Cause of shbg has several factors
obesity
hypothyroid
insulin imbalance
cortisol imbalance

So u are IMO your a ticking time bomb

Good post. Self-treating is bad unless you have some sort of consultant supervising you and keep close tabs on bloodwork so you know what's going on (full picture)

 

[JamieVegas]

TheMatrix,

I have been meaning to use your services, but I cannot afford you right now. That is why I am doing this unsupervised. As far as I am concerned, this is now an absolutely emergency. I have zero function, and I absolutely NEED to be functional.

I lost my job because I was not able to sleep or wake up before 8am each morning to shop up "on time." (Keep in mind that it is a desk job, and the work can get done no matter when I arrive.) Without my job, I have no insurance.

The only way to do this is on my own.

 

[The Matrix]

TheMatrix,

I have been meaning to use your services, but I cannot afford you right now. That is why I am doing this unsupervised. As far as I am concerned, this is now an absolutely emergency. I have zero function, and I absolutely NEED to be functional.

I lost my job because I was not able to sleep or wake up before 8am each morning to shop up "on time." (Keep in mind that it is a desk job, and the work can get done no matter when I arrive.) Without my job, I have no insurance.

The only way to do this is on my own.

Yes and I had same response and ended up a dog chasing its tail for 3 years.
I lost everything going from living life of riley to barely being able to take care of my self. I was first person to win a disablity case of hypothyroidism in my state. So if you lost your job due to illness then you might be able to get social security for time out.

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm just reading this over again... Why do you want to raise SHBG? This idea isn't making sense to me...

If libido is your problem, post your labs, especially DHT! You should be concerned more with DHT than anything at this point - yet you haven't even mentioned it. But the big picture matters..

Also keep in mind that even if / when all of your hormones are in balance, you can still have ED from other disorders like type-II diabetes (insulin resistance), which naturally low SHBG points to. Many other things can also cause ED. Where are your labs? Noone can help you at all here without them..

 

[JamieVegas]

Gutterpump,

I need to raise SHBG because it is always very low (9-11.) My total testosterone has always been very low as well, around 180ng/dl when I was only 19 years old. Even though I have low total T, my free T is midrange.

The problem is, if I add any amount of testosterone, my SHBG does not raise. Because the SHBG does not raise, my free T goes through the roof. It went to double the top of the normal range from Androgel alone.

The only way for my body to handle extra testosterone, then, is to find a way to allow SHBG to increase.

Here are the labs done by Dr. Shippen:

Vitamin D, 25 OH, TOTAL 31          20-100 ng/mL
IGF-1                         148         126-382 ng/mL
Cortisol, Total               21.4        4-22 mcg/DL
DHEA-S                      542           110-510 mcg/dL  (high)
FSH                           5.9            1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
LH                             4.9            1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
Prolactin                     4.7            2-18 ng/mL
Testosterone, Total     701            241-827 ng/dL
Estradiol                      44            13-54 pg/mL
SHBG                          11            7-44

I went in with previous lab tests showing TT: 280, low out of range FT, and low SHBG. The above results were after 1 week of a Clomid stimulation test. Unfortunately, that's all I have been able to get in the past year. He didn't include DHT or SHBG or FT on that lab. He drives me crazy, sometimes. My free T was obviously through the roof, here, but there's no way to verify. (He does not believe that FT tests are accurate.) Estrogen was elevated because of the Clomid and because of the low SHBG. Notice that SHBG only raised by 3 points after bringing Estrogen to the top of the range. It should have gone up a lot more.

 

[Gutterpump]

Why do you want to raise your SHBG? To counter the effects of estrogen? Why not incorporate an AI like aromasin, as I suggested? My libido is best when my E2 is down around 18-20 or so.

You definitely should look into your DHT values as well. Do you have any labs showing DHT?

If your SHBG is low, I would look into insulin resistance.

Your libido will be most affected by DHT levels as well as E2 being in an ideal range. After that it's a delicate balancing act with DHEA, etc, as long as your adrenals and thyroid are in the right place.

 

[The Matrix]

Why do you want to raise your SHBG? To counter the effects of estrogen? Why not incorporate an AI like aromasin, as I suggested? My libido is best when my E2 is down around 18-20 or so.

You definitely should look into your DHT values as well. Do you have any labs showing DHT?

If your SHBG is low, I would look into insulin resistance.

Your libido will be most affected by DHT levels as well as E2 being in an ideal range. After that it's a delicate balancing act with DHEA, etc, as long as your adrenals and thyroid are in the right place.

All these factors have already been variables.

 

[JamieVegas]

Why do you want to raise your SHBG? To counter the effects of estrogen? Why not incorporate an AI like aromasin, as I suggested? My libido is best when my E2 is down around 18-20 or so.

You definitely should look into your DHT values as well. Do you have any labs showing DHT?

If your SHBG is low, I would look into insulin resistance.

Your libido will be most affected by DHT levels as well as E2 being in an ideal range. After that it's a delicate balancing act with DHEA, etc, as long as your adrenals and thyroid are in the right place.

I tried Arimidex and T without success. Even if I limit estrogen, my FT will still be too high.

My body should have raised SHBG when I increased estrogen and testosterone, but it did not. This means my liver is having trouble, and I need to force it to output SHBG.

 

[EasyEJL]

You are talking like SHBG levels are the only thing that could be causing your issue, which simply isn't true. You really need more bloodwork to identify the problem. Imagine of through doing this you end up not correcting the problem, but also adding hypothyroidism to it......

 

[JamieVegas]

I have been to Dr. John Crisler and Dr. Eugene Shippen and neither of them were able to identify any problems other than my low testosterone.

Neither of them saw anything wrong with adrenals, thyroid, estrogen, prolactin or DHT. Those guys are the best that I know of, so I don't think that finding yet another doctor is going to be any good to me.

I know it's the low SHBG, and there are only two medication relation solutions: treat insulin resistance with Metformin or treat hypothyroidism with T3 and T4.

Unfortunately, I simply can't afford lab tests right now, and I can't find a doctor that understands the subtleties that are at work here. Every doctor that I see just administers testosterone, and that makes things worse.

 

[JamieVegas]

"Administration of synthetic T3 also leads to an increase in SHBG production. Lovejoy et al. looked at the effects of the administration of 50 mcg of synthetic T3 (Cytomel) on SHBG production in normal subjects over the course of 2 months (2). SHBG was observed to increase by 150%."

I absolutely NEED this to happen.

It doesn't matter what E2, DHT, DHEA, etc. are. My SHBG needs to double before any of that would be effective.

 

[Gutterpump]

I tried Arimidex and T without success. Even if I limit estrogen, my FT will still be too high.

My body should have raised SHBG when I increased estrogen and testosterone, but it did not. This means my liver is having trouble, and I need to force it to output SHBG.

I still don't understand why raising SHBG will raise your libido. Can you further explain this? I am kind of concerned with this logic, but am open to hear it. I don't know everything there is to know about everything.

I used to have the same SHBG as you before I started TRT, and libido was ok. I was using cialis a lot, but I still was having sex 4+ times per week. So you are saying you have absolutely no desire? You can't even function while watching porn?

Also, how does high free-T cause low libido when estrogen is managed? This doesn't make sense to me. Higher free T means more DHT, means more libido!! You need more labs and to share more info on here.

 

[Gutterpump]

"Administration of synthetic T3 also leads to an increase in SHBG production. Lovejoy et al. looked at the effects of the administration of 50 mcg of synthetic T3 (Cytomel) on SHBG production in normal subjects over the course of 2 months (2). SHBG was observed to increase by 150%."

I absolutely NEED this to happen.

It doesn't matter what E2, DHT, DHEA, etc. are. My SHBG needs to double before any of that would be effective.

WHO TOLD YOU THIS???? Your SHBG needs to double / increase in order for these hormones to work?? This makes no sense. You realize that SHBG BINDS UP hormones, which leave less ACTIVE hormone circulating through your system? All this will do is limit the effectiveness of what you're taking!

The ONLY reason I have heard about raising SHBG to a more normal level, is so that the individual will have less estrogen related sides.. Or possibly you are a fast metabolizer of these hormones and rip through the active hormones in your system too fast. But you don't have urinalysis to prove this..

Having to use lots of Arimidex will end up KILLING your lipids over time. Aromasin does not have this side effect while controlling estrogen. Dude, there's nothing wrong with high free test + high DHT, as long as estrogen is controlled (and as long as you're not prone to male pattern baldness).

You should tackle the REASON why your SHBG is low to begin with (IE: insulin issues, etc)... instead of falsely trying to elevate it.

Personally, I think you just don't like to listen to advice on here. Matrix gave you good advice, but you seem to think you know what you're doing.. :no:

 

[EasyEJL]

I know it's the low SHBG

I absolutely NEED this to happen.

Again, you've fixated on SHBG being the only possible cause, and I agree with gutterpump that its not likely the cause. I've had non-measurable SHBG, with total T at 850ish, free T at more than 2x top of range, E2 at 64 and libido was totally raging. Self medicating with T3 to attempt to raise SHBG just will open you up to more new problems in my opinion.

 

[The Matrix]

:trout:

Again, you've fixated on SHBG being the only possible cause, and I agree with gutterpump that its not likely the cause. I've had non-measurable SHBG, with total T at 850ish, free T at more than 2x top of range, E2 at 64 and libido was totally raging. Self medicating with T3 to attempt to raise SHBG just will open you up to more new problems in my opinion.

:frustrate
You are looking at symptoms not the cause.
SHBG is a relfection of something else that is out of balance do not try to manipulate shbg directly.

So what made you come to this conclusion of low t3 and do testing results indicate this?

 

[JamieVegas]

:trout:

:frustrate
You are looking at symptoms not the cause.
SHBG is a relfection of something else that is out of balance do not try to manipulate shbg directly.

So what made you come to this conclusion of low t3 and do testing results indicate this?

I do understand that the low SHBG is indicative of another problem. The thing is, I currently can't afford to run any tests or hire someone to assist me. I have to wait until I become employed again. As soon as I get employed, I will run tests.

As far as I know, there are only two options. It can either be hypothyroidism or insulin resistance. I'm simply trying them both, blindly, because I have medication for both handy.

Treating for insulin resistance with Metformin can be very dangerous, so it's not the first option I want to try. I had a fasting insulin test that showed insulin at the bottom of the range. So, I'm not diabetic. I did not have a 3 hour GTT yet, though. I can't afford one now.

So, instead, I'm treating for hypothyroidism. It seems like the lesser of two evils, and should let me know if raising SHBG will help or not. (One study indicates that experimental hyperthyroidism increases SHBG an average of 150%. By forcing SHBG up this way, I can tell if it will help or not.) All of the doctors I have seen in the past have said that my thyroid panel was fine.

I know I'm not going about this the right way. It's an emergency, and I have nothing to lose. My **** doesn't work at all, so I can't go anywhere but forward.

Gutterpump,

No, porn won't do a thing. I can get semi-erect if I manually stimulate myself. That's it, and it doesn't last long. It feels like nothing is there.

I'm secondary hypogonadal, so my testes can make their own T. I need a normal SHBG level so that I can have a normal TT level and FT level. With low SHBG, the best I can have is very low TT and normal FT. That simply doesn't work for my body.

If whatever is keeping SHBG down is cured, my testosterone should rise naturally as SHBG rises. I shouldn't even need HCG.

 

[Gutterpump]

Metformin isn't dangerous, but if you're not on TRT, it will lower your test. This is a known effect.

I actually take metformin from time to time when dieting. But the most effective way to treat insulin resistance is not through drugs, it's through diet. Go low carb, even keto. This will get your body responsive to insulin again in time. You have to keep at it though for some time and don't rebound back into a $hitty diet again after.

I think you stated you're on 25mcg of T3? This is a very low amount. I don't think you will even see much of a change in SHBG at this amount. As I had said, even at 40mcg I have not seen changes in my own SHBG (thankfully) because high SHBG is not good.

 

[EasyEJL]

Just as a question, is the libido issue a desire thing, or a performance thing? and if performance, have you tried viagra/cialis/levitra?

 

[JamieVegas]

Gutterpump,

I think I eat very decently. Only vegetables, fruits, raw fish and fat. Nothing white or starchy and I stay away from grains. I haven't had a soda or any fruit juice in 4 years, for example. I'm pretty sugar/fructose conscious and limit myself to 2-3 fruits per day. I also take an ALA/ALC combo three times a day to further lower blood sugar.

I am on 50mcg daily. My morning temperature is still 97.9, so it's pretty safe to say that I'm not cooking myself yet.

How much do you think I can safely take? 50mcg was the amount referenced in the study to make "healthy" males hyperthyroidal and raise their SHBG by 150%. I'm hoping my 9 can become a 22.

I don't feel any different on it at all, yet.

EasyETL,

It is a desire thing. Viagra, Cialis, etc. do not work well enough. Granted, yes, about 2 hours after I take 20mg Cialis, I'll start getting erections, but the drive is absent and it won't last in penetration.

If I have more than 3 drinks in a night, no matter. I don't drink anymore, but when I was younger, any alcohol would kill it to the point that I couldn't even force it up for a second by manual stimulation. I always found my "whiskey ****" propensity very strange, and I wonder if that helps to shed any light on the cause.

 

[EasyEJL]

the "nothing white and starchy" and "2-3 fruits per day" leads me to wonder if its insulin resistance. Honestly that diet doesn't sound like eating decently in my opinion, but diet is perhaps the least agreed upon thing on earth

 

[Gutterpump]

Yeah I'm beginning to think it could be your diet. It's too 'clean' in a sense that it's missing out on some much needed things. It doesn't look like insulin resistance, as Easy is saying.

Try having a tablespoon or two of extra virgin coconut oil in the evening everyday, and see if your libido, etc start to change for the better. Seems like you're missing out on saturated fats. A sure way to mess up the libido.

My SHBG was 11 pre-TRT/HRT and is now 22 while on 200mg test per week and while taking .5mg arimidex eod (SHBG was tested while on arimidex, I've since switched to aromasin with MUCH better wood + libido now)

 

[JamieVegas]

Yeah I'm beginning to think it could be your diet. It's too 'clean' in a sense that it's missing out on some much needed things. It doesn't look like insulin resistance, as Easy is saying.

Try having a tablespoon or two of extra virgin coconut oil in the evening everyday, and see if your libido, etc start to change for the better. Seems like you're missing out on saturated fats. A sure way to mess up the libido.

My SHBG was 11 pre-TRT/HRT and is now 22 while on 200mg test per week and while taking .5mg arimidex eod (SHBG was tested while on arimidex, I've since switched to aromasin with MUCH better wood + libido now)

I'll take the advice, but I do include saturated fat. I normally eat 4 raw eggs per day, and I take fish oil, olive oil and coconut oil daily. I eat meat about twice per week.

I think the difference between our situations is that when I was on 160mg of TE per week and .25mg Arimidex E3D, I saw no change in SHBG whatsoever. I think my liver has trouble expressing it due to another condition.

If it is insulin resistance, how shall I treat it? I can't imagine what else I could do within my diet. It's virtually sugarless. High fat and protien from raw eggs, raw fatty fish, nuts, olive oil, coconot oil, fish oil, protien powder (workouts only), avocados, etc.

 

[EasyEJL]

Just a question, were you already eating this way before the issue started, or did it start after ?

 

[Gutterpump]

I'll take the advice, but I do include saturated fat. I normally eat 4 raw eggs per day, and I take fish oil, olive oil and coconut oil daily. I eat meat about twice per week.

I think the difference between our situations is that when I was on 160mg of TE per week and .25mg Arimidex E3D, I saw no change in SHBG whatsoever. I think my liver has trouble expressing it due to another condition.

If it is insulin resistance, how shall I treat it? I can't imagine what else I could do within my diet. It's virtually sugarless. High fat and protien from raw eggs, raw fatty fish, nuts, olive oil, coconot oil, fish oil, protien powder (workouts only), avocados, etc.

I just noticed your weight. 155# @ 6'1 seems underweight and unhealthy for the average person. I think you may be starving yourself to be honest. Also, raw eggs are not very bioavailable. You should definitely be cooking/boiling them to get all the nutrition out of them.

Do you have any previous labs with lipid values / CMP?

 

[JamieVegas]

I just noticed your weight. 155# @ 6'1 seems underweight and unhealthy for the average person. I think you may be starving yourself to be honest. Also, raw eggs are not very bioavailable. You should definitely be cooking/boiling them to get all the nutrition out of them.

Do you have any previous labs with lipid values / CMP?

I'm actualy 175 now. I was 155 right after I quit full blown TRT. I was 185lbs on TRT, eating 3000 calries a day from only chicken, fats and vegatables.

My girlfriend made me quit TRT, so I quit working out, and I dropped from 185 to 155 over the course of two years. That was a terrible time for me, but the libido problems were constant before and after this period. They really started around the time I was 20, 9 years ago.

I'll see what other labs I have. I'll probably have to call up all of my old doctors and request my records.

 

[Gutterpump]

Do you eat any low GI carbs throughout the day? Brown rice, etc? You still need some healthy carbs for thyroid function, etc. Also, your adrenal reserve could be low if you're not feeling anything from the T3 (even though that's a very low dose). T3 needs healthy adrenals to work (or isocort/hydrocortisone supplementation), and good iodine levels.

Post what you have when you get the labs, I'm curious to see your lipid values.

Post thyroid or adrenal panels/labs as well if you can find any..

 

[JamieVegas]

I'm actualy 175 now. I was 155 right after I quit full blown TRT. I was 185lbs on TRT, eating 3000 calries a day from only chicken, fats and vegatables.

My girlfriend made me quit TRT, so I quit working out, and I dropped from 185 to 155 over the course of two years. That was a terrible time for me, but the libido problems were constant before and after this period. They really started around the time I was 20, 9 years ago.

I'll see what other labs I have. I'll probably have to call up all of my old doctors and request my records.

CMP showed nothing out of the ordinary and my cholesterol is mid-range ideal.

I tried Cialis this weekend, plus 250-IU of hCH, plus some maca powder, cocoa powder, l-arginine and l-tyrosine.

Nothing worked!!

 

[Gator 87]

My girlfriend made me quit TRT, so I quit working out, and I dropped from 185 to 155 over the course of two years. That was a terrible time for me, but the libido problems were constant before and after this period. They really started around the time I was 20, 9 years ago.

How and why?

 

[JamieVegas]

How and why?

She insisted that everything was "all in my head" and that I was normal. I was very good at faking a normal sex drive. In reality, I couldn't get it up. I was trying everything from high doses of l-Arginine, Viagra, corner store sex supplements, PT-141, etc.

At the time, I was on Dr. Crisler's watch, who at age 24 had me on no less than six medications: testosterone injections, Arimidex, hCG injections, pregnenelone cream, transdermal testosterone, Viagra, his "special" hair loss shampoo etc... and I'm secondary, mind you.

Since it wasn't doing a damned thing for my libido or health, and was costing a good deal for me at the time, I took her "inspiring" advice and tried to make due with excercise, diet and positive thinking. :worried:

 

[Gutterpump]

How long did you give it a try for, and did you do any sort of 'PCT' when you came off?

 

[The Matrix]

How long did you give it a try for, and did you do any sort of 'PCT' when you came off?

In this instances I would have a tendency to look at the red flags to the issue. The biggest one being the confrontation and unsupportive environut ment of your girl freind. This was just like adding a thorn in your side on top of what you were currently dealing with. As any Dr should they should ask the correct questions to start to look at the core source of the problem. Alot of problems are in the most obvious places but often every explored. As a health counselor I would tend to investigate all these hidden issues that may take a full hour and half to look. Hormones are nothing compared to how hidden stressors can be so over looked which majoirty are at the core source of the problem. When you do not have the support system it make recovery almost impossible. Also if you are just with some one with your head and not your gut, the body will respond by letting you know immediately. No matter how much my heart was in a girl if my body saw her as a threat it would fight back by not being able to perform and doing everything it can to protect me from her. Hidden emotional stress can play havoc with your insulin levels. Stress is one of the precursors to diabetes. BY adding t3 could stress the adrenals and cause an increase in t3 by metabolizing the the excessive cortisol. So you are truly potentially masking a more dangerous condition manifesting over time.

 

[monsterbox]

ok, why are you worried about low SHBG thats completely condradicting.

Low SHBG may indicate insulin issues etc...but low SHBG means more androgen circulation and higher sex drive.

I had low SHBG (13) and i'm on TRT. And i went from feeling crappy to amazing. And Im way past the free-t range....whats wrong with being above the range that scares you?? People run 1000mg/test in steroid cycle and are 10x the range...

Get you estrogen under control and get on testosterone. If you still have issues then its in your brain and you need to look to dopamine/seratonin. I really does sound like all of this is in your mind. Cialis forces you to have an erection, even without a sex drive. If you can't get it up with perfectly tuned hormones (low SHBG working in your favor) you have a physical penis problem at this point or you have a neurotransmitter issue. I think you are stressing so much about getting up and worrying about being interested in sex that you are causing anxiety which is reversing the libido. I had this issue in the past.

 

[JamieVegas]

ok, why are you worried about low SHBG thats completely condradicting.

Low SHBG may indicate insulin issues etc...but low SHBG means more androgen circulation and higher sex drive.

I had low SHBG (13) and i'm on TRT. And i went from feeling crappy to amazing. And Im way past the free-t range....whats wrong with being above the range that scares you?? People run 1000mg/test in steroid cycle and are 10x the range...

Get you estrogen under control and get on testosterone. If you still have issues then its in your brain and you need to look to dopamine/seratonin. I really does sound like all of this is in your mind. Cialis forces you to have an erection, even without a sex drive. If you can't get it up with perfectly tuned hormones (low SHBG working in your favor) you have a physical penis problem at this point or you have a neurotransmitter issue. I think you are stressing so much about getting up and worrying about being interested in sex that you are causing anxiety which is reversing the libido. I had this issue in the past.

Low SHBG does not necessarily mean more androgen circulation. First of all, if SHBG is low, then your body will keep total T low because too much of it is free (4% vs 2%, for example.) So, you might have normal free T, but you'll have low total T.

Now, if you take testosterone, then you will have too high free T. It will metabolize rapidly to estrogen and DHT. For some people this is okay, for others it is not.

I happen to be one of the people that does ABSOLUTELY NOT respond to elevated free T. I have a full tube of Androgel right here, along with a vial of sublingual testosterone. Trust me -- one dose, and I couldn't get an erection with a vacuum pump.

hCG has zero effect on me

Cialis does not cause an erection without arousal. That is stated clearly in the packaging. It simply facilitates the process IF the body tries to initiate it. It does nothing for arousal, which is absolutely essential to the process.

Regarding the whole "metnal" thing, it's just not true. This problem has plagued me since I was 19. It has nothing to do with my partner, because my solo masturbation is just as affected by it. I have also had multiple partners. Moreover, if you want to look at a 19 year olds labs, see 185ng/dl of total testosterone and call it "mental", then I don't know what the heck you would consider "hormonal." It'll be "mental" the day that I come back with normal looking lab work and the problem is still around.

 

[JamieVegas]

Do you eat any low GI carbs throughout the day? Brown rice, etc? You still need some healthy carbs for thyroid function, etc. Also, your adrenal reserve could be low if you're not feeling anything from the T3 (even though that's a very low dose). T3 needs healthy adrenals to work (or isocort/hydrocortisone supplementation), and good iodine levels.

Post what you have when you get the labs, I'm curious to see your lipid values.

Post thyroid or adrenal panels/labs as well if you can find any..

Yes, I eat black beans, lentils and oats. I have some higher GI foods in the morning and after I workout.

I think my adrenals are fine because of the elevated DHEA-S and the topped up cortisol in the AM. Unless my cortisol is dropping off in the evening, then I have no reason to suspect that something is wrong there. I don't feel any better or worse from morning to evening.

I'm still waiting on the offices to send me my records.

Also, to everyone, if it was as easy as shooting free T through the roof, then everyone on TRT would have awesome libidos. It simply does not work that way for everyone.

I am now on 75 mcg of T3, still feeling nothing. My body temperature, at 3:30PM, is 97.7.

 

[EasyEJL]

Regarding the whole "metnal" thing, it's just not true. This problem has plagued me since I was 19. It has nothing to do with my partner, because my solo masturbation is just as affected by it. I have also had multiple partners. Moreover, if you want to look at a 19 year olds labs, see 185ng/dl of total testosterone and call it "mental", then I don't know what the heck you would consider "hormonal." It'll be "mental" the day that I come back with normal looking lab work and the problem is still around.

Ok so you believe this, yet still let a girlfriend decide to take you off TRT because it was all mental? I don't get it

 

[JamieVegas]

Ok so you believe this, yet still let a girlfriend decide to take you off TRT because it was all mental? I don't get it

TRT with my doctor was not working. I was getting gynecomastia, it was extremely expensive, and it made me feel no better that I felt before. I saw no benefit, so why continue? I completely lost trust in my doctor once I learned that I was secondary and that he started me on T injections regardless.

 

[monsterbox]

Low SHBG does not necessarily mean more androgen circulation. First of all, if SHBG is low, then your body will keep total T low because too much of it is free (4% vs 2%, for example.) So, you might have normal free T, but you'll have low total T.

Now, if you take testosterone, then you will have too high free T. It will metabolize rapidly to estrogen and DHT. For some people this is okay, for others it is not.

I happen to be one of the people that does ABSOLUTELY NOT respond to elevated free T. I have a full tube of Androgel right here, along with a vial of sublingual testosterone. Trust me -- one dose, and I couldn't get an erection with a vacuum pump.

hCG has zero effect on me

Cialis does not cause an erection without arousal. That is stated clearly in the packaging. It simply facilitates the process IF the body tries to initiate it. It does nothing for arousal, which is absolutely essential to the process.

Regarding the whole "metnal" thing, it's just not true. This problem has plagued me since I was 19. It has nothing to do with my partner, because my solo masturbation is just as affected by it. I have also had multiple partners. Moreover, if you want to look at a 19 year olds labs, see 185ng/dl of total testosterone and call it "mental", then I don't know what the heck you would consider "hormonal." It'll be "mental" the day that I come back with normal looking lab work and the problem is still around.

look man, I'm only 21, went on TRT when i was 20. Had labs at 300ng/dl and super low E and super low SHBG. I know the frustration. I also had problems with libido starting at age 19. But I will tell you, that stressing over blood tests makes it 100% worse. Im not calling you "mental", i'm just saying that possibly you are stressing so hard about this SHBG thing thats its driving you insane and its not even the root of your problem.

I seriously would worry least about the SHBG. I don't see any way that too high of androgenic activity is going to adveresely affect your sex drive. If you are worried about how much free/bioavalable T, just use enough to fullfill the free-t range, and keep your estrogen down.

Have you had prolactin check out?

Stop worrying about the SHBG and focus on getting high T levels and in-range E2. Seriously man it should not matter if you are 10x the range or not. Are you sure its not high estrogen that is causing the lack of sex drive?

I know Crisler has a theory that too much testosterone can "overshoot" your libido and cause the opposite affect, but I have yet to meet anyone including myself that have had this problem, unless E2 increased too high...




One more note bro:

I have been SO shutdown before that I couldn't have even 1 sexual thought. I could stare at the hottest porn star naked in front of me and feel ABSOLUTELY no interest. BUT, with stimulation, even without viagra, I could achieve an erection....but it would be purely physical. If you can't manual achieve an erection without cialis/viagra at all maybe you need to look to other things...

How high is your blood pressure?
What is you weight/height?
Do you have sleep apnea?
Do you take any other drugs for anxiety/sleep/depression?
Have you used finasteride?

 

[Gutterpump]

TRT with my doctor was not working. I was getting gynecomastia, it was extremely expensive, and it made me feel no better that I felt before. I saw no benefit, so why continue? I completely lost trust in my doctor once I learned that I was secondary and that he started me on T injections regardless.

TRT works, I don't think you gave it enough time and I think by what you're saying, your E2 was too high for it to be working until you had things under control. If you had went through the ropes and got everything balanced, I bet you'd be feeling great right now. You can't rush these things! Instead, you may have made matters worse..

About the emotional thing Matrix was mentioning... yes that's a factor.... but in all honesty, in my own darkest and/or most stressful days......when feeling down and/or depressed even.. I could still wank while looking at porn, and multiple times per day. You're saying you can't get it up watching porn or get off... There is no emotional attachment to porn, and no worry about performance with porn either, so it has to be at least partly physical, not all in your head.

 

[JamieVegas]

One more note bro:

I have been SO shutdown before that I couldn't have even 1 sexual thought. I could stare at the hottest porn star naked in front of me and feel ABSOLUTELY no interest. BUT, with stimulation, even without viagra, I could achieve an erection....but it would be purely physical. If you can't manual achieve an erection without cialis/viagra at all maybe you need to look to other things...

How high is your blood pressure?
What is you weight/height?
Do you have sleep apnea?
Do you take any other drugs for anxiety/sleep/depression?
Have you used finasteride?

Thanks for the support, bro.

My blood pressure is 120/80. I'm 6'2" and 177lbs. I no longer take medication, but I used to be on anti-depressants when I was a teenager. Keep in mind that I wasn't really depressed, I just had hormonal problems at even that early in life. It wasn't until 19 that I went in for a thyroid test and my doctor secretly slipped in a T test based on my complaints. The T was so low that he thought the lab was mistaken and we ran the labs two more times! That was the beginning of my 10 year HRT nightmare.

I can often get semi-erect from physical stimulation. I don't think I have any thing wrong with the "plumbing." Like you are describing from when you are shutdown, I feel the same way in that there is absolutely no interest. I can get an erection with Cialis, but it's extremely unreliable. One week, two hours after I took one, I kept filling my pants while trying to have dinner out at a restaurant. It wasn't a full-on boner, but it was noticeable at least. I can't have sex with a half-mast erection, though. I've tried. The girl doesn't quite like it.

I went to see a Dr. Quinit, here in PA. His diagnosis was "endocrine disorder - unknown." He said adding testosterone would not help me. I was then with Dr. Crisler from 2003 to 2006 without any success. I then sought out university physicians at Thomas Jefferson University. Both knew nothing beyond Androgel.

About the emotional thing Matrix was mentioning... yes that's a factor.... but in all honesty, in my own darkest and/or most stressful days......when feeling down and/or depressed even.. I could still wank while looking at porn, and multiple times per day. You're saying you can't get it up watching porn or get off... There is no emotional attachment to porn, and no worry about performance with porn either, so it has to be at least partly physical, not all in your head.

I think it is all physical. I've been able to get horny no matter whether I am sick, depressed, etc. I was held up at gunpoint outside of my house one night and I was able to masturbate only an hour later. The problem is that I only get horny about once a month, for a few days. It's entirely physical and has nothing to do with life circumstances.

Interestingly, for the first time in years, I had a sex-related dream last night. No sex, but sexual. (I have never had a nocturnal emission in my life, nor a dream involving actual sex.) I think that is a good sign! I'm taking HCG @ 250iu EOD. I still feel absolutely nothing from it.

Still 75mcg of T3.

 

[Gutterpump]

I am placing my bets on high E2, since you said you were getting gyno, and even now while on HCG...since HCG raises E2 a lot. Of course you will feel no great effects from any sort of TRT when your E2 is too high. You will have no libido and also ED with high E2. Get yourself some aromasin/exemestane (12.5mg eod is SAFE) and get yourself off the T3, you're making things worse.

 

[JamieVegas]

About the emotional thing Matrix was mentioning... yes that's a factor.... but in all honesty, in my own darkest and/or most stressful days......when feeling down and/or depressed even.. I could still wank while looking at porn, and multiple times per day. You're saying you can't get it up watching porn or get off... There is no emotional attachment to porn, and no worry about performance with porn either, so it has to be at least partly physical, not all in your head.

I have a question that might be good to ask here because I can't get a straight answer from any of my local male friends.

You can masturbate multiple times per day? How long does each "session" normally last? 10 minutes? 30? 45?

Since I can only masturbate, at most, once a day, I try to make it last as long as possible.

Also, if my E2 is high then it is because I don't have enough SHBG to handle the higher testosterone. My E2 is normal when I'm not on TRT, and I still have no libido. Also... and I only mention this because it sticks out in my head, when I was on my TRT with Dr. Crisler, he told me that I had one of the best estrogen metabolisms he'd ever seen. My estrogen(s) were on the exact theoretical ideal numbers. I might have been on Arimidex at the time, though. I can't remember. Libido was still dead, even with the "ideal" estrogen.

Also, that was my problem with that doctor. Why raise my testosterone if it's just going to shoot estrogen out of range becasue I have low SHBG and all the excess free T is just going to aromatize? That makes no sense. Why cause a problem and then band-aid it with anti-estrogens?

Why not just increase SHBG so that T can be high without excess conversion to E2 and DHT?

 

[Gutterpump]

You want high DHT for libido though... DHT is not as bad as you'd think. It's responsible for all the 'male' qualities of men, especially libido.

You're asking the wrong guy about how long it takes. Normally takes me far too long, probably from overuse though, and years of not using lube while shaking one off. Sensitivity is another thing though. You can use shea butter on the gland to break down and tissue that's built up from friction..I forget the term for it

 

[JamieVegas]

You want high DHT for libido though... DHT is not as bad as you'd think. It's responsible for all the 'male' qualities of men, especially libido.

You're asking the wrong guy about how long it takes. Normally takes me far too long, probably from overuse though, and years of not using lube while shaking one off. Sensitivity is another thing though. You can use shea butter on the gland to break down and tissue that's built up from friction..I forget the term for it

When I can do it, I spend about an hour. Not because it takes that long, but because I want it to take that long (since I can't do it multiple times.) I could finish in 5 or 10 minutes, if I wanted.

I'm just trying to get these people who masturbate multiple times per day to tell me how long they spend on it. If I masturbated multiple times per day, I'd be spending 2-3 hours just jacking off. So these people must be talking about little 7 minute sessions here and there.

Hey, all you multiple-times-per-day masturbators out there... how much time are you spending on it?

 

[Gutterpump]

On a solo day, I can do 15-30min in the morning. 1+ hour at night. Both with good porn.

With the lady, 1-4 hours I can go for.

 

[JamieVegas]

On a solo day, I can do 15-30min in the morning. 1+ hour at night. Both with good porn.

With the lady, 1-4 hours I can go for.

My ex-girlfriend, ironically, seems to have a slight androgen imbalance, herself. She is always horny, non-stop, and she cums in minutes. Always. She has to essentially "think about baseball statistics" to avoid early orgasm.

Obviously, we are entirely opposite. :sad3:

My DHT is normally midrange to high. Remember, I have low SHBG, so DHT is automatically always high. I have awesome early-onset MBP to show for it, too. Ugh.