4 months off finasteride and my body is a mess - advice?
- 07-24-2010, 03:05 PM
4 months off finasteride and my body is a mess - advice?
I am a 19 year old student living in the UK, to cut a long story short I took generic finasteride in an attempt to delay male pattern baldness back in September 09 to March 10, it was very on and off as I quit about 3 times and I was always varying dosages to try and reduce side effects, my dosages ranged from 1mg all the way down to about 0.20 mg. I got some fairly nasty side effects while I was on the drug but nothing like what has developed now, 4 months after quitting. My most problematic symptoms are:
. Low libido
. Lack of morning and nocturnal erections
. Erectile dysfunction (fluctuates)
. Numb penis (more so flaccid now)
. Low sperm volume
. Unhealthy looking penis, very pale tip as if there is not enough blood entering, some redness.
. Weak and aching chest and mid section of arms
. Severe sleeping problems - I can sleep no longer than two hours, actually falling asleep isn't that much of a problem apart from times when I am randomly jerking and having muscle twitches. My body just won't let me sleep past the 2 hour mark and when I wake I either feel terrible (numb penis feeling, aching muscles) or I feel surprisingly refreshed, to the point where I am wondering what the hell is going on.
. I am on the whole very fit and athletic, I weigh 161 lbs and I am 5'10 inches tall. I had no previous ED (apart from when drinking alcohol) or health problems of any kind.
The whole FINASTERIDE ordeal is a tricky one, I keep hope that I will get better naturally as I have good periods and bad periods, the worst thing to happen recently is my sleep has just ****ed up, it only started about two weeks ago. I am after any advice and actions to take. I am in the process of getting blood results and stool examination results, but my GP isn't very understanding.
Supplements I am taking at the moment:
- Multi vit
- Fish oil
I have also tried a cycle of tribulus and ZMA and also L'arginine which gave me rock hard erections when it was up, and I can get it up, but a whole lot is still missing.
Recommendation of any other supplements that may be worth a try while I try to figure this mess out would also be appreciated. Some guys with long term problems because of finasteride have tried HPTA restarts, the same as steroid users to get their system, this has recovered some guys but not many.
- 07-24-2010, 04:07 PM
I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
- 07-24-2010, 04:31 PM
Thanks for the reply.. I can't PM you at the moment due to my low post count, but I will sort that out now.
I am intrigued by what you said about having treated people successfully, if you could give me further details that would be great.
I actually had what I believed to be a 'crash' in my hormones possibly. I was in Istanbul on vacation and one night I felt unwell, I felt extremely anxious, I kept on urinating and excreting infact, but I was constipated. I woke up the next morning and my penis was numb. Things have stabilized since then but as you can tell from my thread, things are still bad. I believed I had propecia out of my system and I was doing OK before this happened and I actually went on a 5 day holiday where I constantly drunk very high amounts of alcohol and did some drugs, before that I wasn't paying any particular attention to my diet or sleeping times either but everything was OK. Since that time in istanbul things have never been the same.
Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
07-24-2010, 04:31 PM
I should be able to PM you now.
07-24-2010, 10:17 PM
There are several factors involved. Finasteride, in approved and controlled administration, ie 1mg per day supervised by a physician has a VERY benign and safe side effect profile. First recommendation is to go see a physician and exclude any other underlying condition. The symptoms\ profile you report are not typical.
07-25-2010, 07:59 AM
07-25-2010, 08:35 AM
07-25-2010, 08:59 AM
07-25-2010, 07:04 PM
07-25-2010, 10:56 PM
This person's side effect profile that they report is not in line with what is expected, given what has been reported in the literature. The issue may lie in the use of a generic "finasteride" (which is not available in the US).
This person needs to go to a doctor to get worked up.
07-26-2010, 12:18 AM
I am investigating with my doctor at the moment, as I said. Up until now he has told me my testosterone is fine, good infact and everything else he tested is OK. I told him of the stool issues so I gave a stool sample, I am waiting for him to come back from vacation in 2 weeks.
07-26-2010, 01:33 AM
Try a product from Primordial Performance called Sustain Alpha, and also try some high quality Mucuna. I've been on and off of Propecia for years and even Dutasteride and never had a problem recovering from any side effects. To be honest I dont beleive in them, I've been on and off the drug so many times I can even remember, simply because I felt "off" on it, but the sides always went away. The less you read on the net the better trust me. I think all the EMF's from the computer and **** like that are a major factor in sperm and stuff like that imo, more than propecia.
Those sides you mention dont sound related at all to propecia, except for the sperm and libido.
Get on some vitamin D3, and if you need to proviron, along with the Sustain Alpha and Mucuna, should fix your problems unless you have adrenal or thyroid problems. Do you take fish oils? Krill Oil and that crap lowers my sex drive probably because of the heavy metals in all of them.
On that combp I gave you, you obviously will lose your hair, but you will be a champ in bed, I could go 10 times per day or more if I wanted and especially on the Sustain Alpha I could recover in 1 minute and go again after that. Maybe the Resveratrol in it increasing the blood flow I dont know.
There is no way you are permanently screwed I dont beleive that.
07-26-2010, 11:41 AM
I actually went on and off the drug with no problems at all during the months I took it; my morning erections and semen volume would come back just fine. All these serious problems came after I was in turkey and it felt like I 'crashed', the days and weeks after that were vile.
I don't think I am permanently screwed up either but it's certainly not looking good. What I am most scared about its:
- the unhealthy look of my penis and testicles, my testicles always seem deflated and my penis is often very pale at the tip with areas of redness. After a drink it goes very numb. I always suffered from whisky ****, but this is something different.
- sleep issues, it's as if I can't get into deep sleep anymore
- Total absence of morning and spontaneous erections. I can however perk up my libido once I am going, or with my girlfriend.
Also, you only have to look as far as wikipedia to see that controversy around it's side effects are becoming more well known:
'In December 2008, the Swedish Medical Products agency concluded a safety investigation of Propecia and subsequently advised that the use of Propecia may result in irreversible sexual dysfunction. The Agency's updated safety information lists difficulty in obtaining an erection that persists indefinitely, even after the discontinuation of Propecia, as a possible side effect of the drug.
The UK's Medical and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) say that erectile dysfuction that persists once use of Propecia has stopped has been reported to them.'
The fact that some of my symptoms, for example the stool and my initial dizzy sleep issues are not reported as side effects, hardly even on propeciahelp make me think that it's not down to finasteride. But then again, if you go by propeciahelp which now has 1,600 members it seems that this drug has done a lot of harm to people in more ways than just ED.
07-26-2010, 11:48 AM
BTW thanks for the advice Superone.
I have indeed looked into Sustain Alpha and other libido/ dopamine/ erection enhancing supplements for that matter. I am going to try a stack of them to see if I can give things a 'kick start'.
I am in the UK so I can't get the sustain alpha from PP, but I have found 3 websites that do Sustain Alpha here.
To answer your question about fish oils; yes I do take them, along with a multi vitamin and I did try Zinc also daily. Would it be a good idea to drop even these supplements for 3 weeks to see where I'm at?
I have done 6 days on tribulus, L-arginine powder and ZMA which has me feeling pretty decent.
07-26-2010, 05:08 PM
Hey bro, Yes I would drop all those supps for now if I were you and see where you are at. I seriously think that erection problems have a lot to do with your overall health, not just your testosterone levels. Stop the drinking, eat more raw organic fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds,superfoods,ect, and I would even stay away from a lot of the vitamin supplements as if they are not whole food form I think they are chemicals and do more harm than good imo.
07-26-2010, 07:35 PM
07-26-2010, 07:55 PM
I still look back and wonder what the hell happened those nights I was in Turkey, and things have just never been the same, it's so strange. Having done a little research it's obvious that no sexually transmitted infections can cause these symptoms, but I was going to drop by at a free clinic just to check things out.
07-26-2010, 10:49 PM
- 5'9" 218 lbs.
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
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ive used propecia name brand as well as generic finasteride. Identical side effects with both: flaccid/pale penis and loss of libido.
Had great results as far as hair regrowth but the sides arent worth it and i hate to be damaged permanently.
d/c the drug about 6 months ago and the sides immediately remissed. Havent experienced any sides since
got about 200 tabs left and will not touch those things lol
Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.
07-28-2010, 10:35 AM
08-04-2010, 09:43 PM
Last week was a great week for me, I slept well and libido was up but unfortunately I can feel things going downhill once again already.
Last week I took 2 valium, and melatonin to help with the sleep but since dropped them.. I think the valium really helped.
I have ordered some Sustain Alpha and Toco 8 to see what happens then.
My penis and testicles are looking the smallest they have ever been which is weird as other problems have gone away.. It's my penis girth that is concerning, it has taken a very pronounced hourglass shape when it is flaccid and building up to an erection.
08-06-2010, 12:07 PM
Can anybody else reccomend any low risk treatments?
The doctor/ surgery didn't get back to me about the stool sample so I assume it was fine. That doctor really isn't helping so I am thinking about waiting until I move cities next month to find a new doctor.
I guess I could do with my first blood test results but they were not in depth and were apparently great according to the doctor.
08-09-2010, 04:50 AM
I got my Sustain Alpha and toco 8 in the post today, I am about to take my first sustain alpha shot. I will wait until the afternoon to take a scoop of toco 8 with a meal, and then take another sustain alpha shot later on in the evening.
I hope this does something, that lasts..
This whole finasteride ordeal is such a mind**** - no diagnosis, nothing to aim for, just things people say on the internet along with my real life symptoms.
08-11-2010, 06:06 PM
You are ******, no whitecoat MD can save you now.
08-12-2010, 11:08 PM
Who are you to say that?
08-15-2010, 11:51 PM
If you can get some GHB for better sleep and healing. And use colon clense daily to help clean out your system.
You should notice your penis coming to life in a week
08-21-2010, 10:34 AM
By colon cleanse and DIM plus do you mean supplements you can get form shops?
I am in the process of trying to get some GHB, I willl PM you about that even though you are in the U.S, if anybody in Europe or even better the UK has any useful information for me about GHB/ GBL please PM me.
How important do you think Tamoxifen is? I would rather leave that out if possible because It's hard to get and I haven't heard of any propecia sufferer getting benefits from it. GHB on the other hand has cured a couple of people by the sounds of it.
My penis isn't actually all that bad size wise, it is sometimes more shrivelled than usual, and it is also very pale and patchy at the tip sometimes (no idea what that means?) but I can have sex and occasionally it has it's decent flaccid hang.
08-21-2010, 10:39 AM
7 days into Sustain alpha and Toco 8 (with two day break as suggested) I feel pretty much the same, although my stool is looking more normal.
Would it be worth doubling the dosages? or is it even worth buying sustain alpha and toco 8 again? maybe I should move onto something that isn't just a supplement.
I had a doctor's appointment on Monday and I told him about my sleep problems and he just offered me an anti depressant at a low dose. I am going back to him this Monday coming and I am going to suggest Wellbutrin - what do you guys think?
The best things I can come up with trying are:
- Baclofen (pain/ muscle relaxant)
If I go on Wellbutrin will I be able to try other stuff?
08-21-2010, 02:10 PM
You should give oral lipid matrix pregnenolone a try.
This is the best brand, and take 150-300mg in the morning.
Maybe it has something to do with the other neurosteroids involved that convert from pregnenolone into the other 5 alpha reduced hormones.
This brand seems to increase my sex drive.
I would give this a try, it also helped me with energy, mood,ect.
Have you tried Zinc? Some Fin users seem to have a copper toxicity and Zinc can fix this.
I would also try topical DHEA
08-21-2010, 02:53 PM
I am taking 30mg Zinc everyday, I have also used ZMA for a week - it didn't do too much.
I can't get hold of that brand in the UK, but I will find an alternative. A couple of guys have reported improvement with pregnenolone but it has worn off. I am prepared to try a few things now, I just don't want anything to had bad interactions with each other.
08-26-2010, 10:34 PM
. Sustain alpha and Toco 8 really isn't doing anything for me
I am going to stop dabbling in these expensive supplements and stick with the basics or/ and pharmaceuticals.
. Tribulus worked pretty well for me and it isn't too expensive, I got 90% stuff from myprotein.co.uk
. Zinc, Omega 3 fish oils, Garlic and Vitamin D along with a good daily multi vit are going to be my staples
. I am on the hunt for some GHB here in the UK, I am desperate to get some
Any other ideas guys? I will try generic stuff as long as there isn't much risk (bad side effects)
08-27-2010, 08:28 AM
09-04-2010, 09:43 PM
Once again I enjoyed a brief recovery period of about 3 days, but it had just dissapeared and I'm feeling **** again:
- Lack connection between brain and penis, something just isn't right, everything is working so sloppy
- Night anxiety, going to sleep and seeming to go straight to REM sleep, having mad dreams and then waking up 4-5 times a night
I am dropping all my supplements for a while to see where I'm at, the most recent recovery has gave me hope!
10-03-2010, 11:42 AM
7 months off now.
Absolutely zero morning erections and nocturnal erections. My hair isn;t shedding anymore either.
10-04-2010, 12:54 PM
10-22-2010, 01:20 AM
you need to get the bloods for hormones and thyroid. There may be something very obvious there. This is first step, you can then go on to try HCG with TRT or oral DHT.
But anyway u should have labs before u do any of this.
10-22-2010, 01:36 AM
- 5'10" 198 lbs.
- Join Date
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02-10-2012, 06:30 PM
how are you doin now ?
Taking finasteride seems to have messed up me real bad.
I took for a very long time (over 10 years)
After taking it for a few years, the side effects started gradually.
The first side effect was muscle loss, then a year or two later ED, but in year ten i suffered complete loss of libido which is when i quit.
Quitting the drug made things 20 times worse though.
I cannot believe that propecia is still legal.
Anyways, I did a 24 hours (x4) saliva test which showed that i have adrenal fatigue.
Blood tests show that i have low Test.
I took some adrenal supplements (under guidnace of doctor) which seemed to help immensely, but the effects wore off after a few weeks.
I take a regular dose of zinc, garlic and vitamin e which seems to help. Also a low dose of Tamoxifen everyday to minimise estrogenic effects.
I did a stool sample test which showed that i have low levels of beneficial bacteria in my gut, so i take plenty of probitoics to help with food digestion.
3 types of bacteria in my gut were identified in the stool test. In normal circumstances this may be ok, but with leaky gut it can cause big problems. Something is seriously wrong with my digestion, as i suffer from constipation most of the time.
02-10-2012, 08:08 PM
Wow, this is timely in my situation. I started finasteride a couple weeks ago and about 5 weeks after starting it. I developed similar symptoms as well. Loss of libido, wood softening and lack of orgasm interest, constipation and wild abdominal bloating. I mean eat three nuts and bloat like a stability ball.
I have stopped it, and in the last three mornings, wood is back, interest in tying up my gf and banging her stupid has returned. pHEWw
My ****tail thus far is
Zma 3 caps
Vit b complex 500mg
Vit c 3000 mg
Pine bark 80 mg
Fish oil 3 grams. (. Whom said that fish oils contains heavy metals is wrong. It's been proven time and time again that fish oils have zero heavy metals in it since its micro distilled. You get more heavy metal exposure by standing on a street corner for 15 minutes due to sucking in the car fumes in the air. If you were to go to mexico city, in twenty minutes of standing outside... Your mercury level would be in the low end of the toxic scale!
These are daily takings
Clomid 25mg sr. 3x wk
Started taking estro balance (dim) 300mg once a daily ( has calcium in it and would negate the zma)
once I get it, resveratrol 500 mg that will be the night time dose with the zma .
I thought original that my e2 levels were shooting up ( last level was 49) and the crysin cream wasn't able to contain it.
But after reading this thread..... Seems I made a wise choice to stop it sooner vs later.
What I am surprised about is the gi impact. If someone could shed some insight on the relationship, I would be thankful. As well, as what would be the next step should be .
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