Propecia Sufferer looking for advice

hypotiredRI

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I took Propecia for hair loss for a 5 years. When I quit do to side effects my endocrine system crashed and things got even worse.

I have been to 4 endorcinoligists and from reading this message board. Many of you guys seem more knowledgeable than the doctors I have been seeing.

It seems as though I have a number of different hormones messed up. Free T, IGF1, Estradial & Thyroid.

My doctor recently prescribed HCG injections. I did this for 4 weeks at 300iU per injection, twice a week. In the first two weeks, it definitely helped with energy and even erections. Now, it seems as though it's not even helping at all.

I also had an arginine infusion test done to determine if I was GH deficient as my IGF numbers are low. The doctor said I was not, although I still think this is a problem.

This blood test is little old, 3 months ago. I will be getting everything tested again next week.

Anyone that has advice, I would really appreciate any recommendations as far as what to try. I am desperate to try to get better.


Total T: 581.87 (241-827)ng dl

SHBG 46 (10-60) nmol/L

Free T: 9.3 (12.4-40.0) pg/ml

Estadial: 33.81 (0-52) pg/ml

FSH: 4.4 (1.4-18.1) mIu/ml

LH: 6.0 (1.5-9.3) mIu/ml


IGF1 94 (106-277)
IGF3 2.7 (3.4-6.7)

Free T4 1.01 (.61-1.12)
Free T3 2.81 (2.50-3.90)

Cortisol stimulation

Cortisol Basel 12.6 (8.7-22.4)
Aldosterone 28 (nh/dL <=21
 

Ession

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I dont have any advice but, I'm currently using finasteride and now youre making me worried that in 5 years, my endocrine system will fail.
 

hypotiredRI

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Pay attention to the suttle changes in your body. Is your vision a little worse? Are your eyes sensative to light and wind. Is your memory not as good. Is your libido getting weaker as time goes on. Do you have stomach problems, like an ulcer?

If you continue to use the drug pay attention to things like these. They were signs that I did not really relate to the medication. Don't believe Merck's claims, that if you quit eveything will go back to normal with a few months. If you do decide to quit, wean off of it gradually. Cut it into smaller pieces, gradually lessening the dose.
 
The Matrix

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I took Propecia for hair loss for a 5 years. When I quit do to side effects my endocrine system crashed and things got even worse.

I have been to 4 endorcinoligists and from reading this message board. Many of you guys seem more knowledgeable than the doctors I have been seeing.

It seems as though I have a number of different hormones messed up. Free T, IGF1, Estradial & Thyroid.

My doctor recently prescribed HCG injections. I did this for 4 weeks at 300iU per injection, twice a week. In the first two weeks, it definitely helped with energy and even erections. Now, it seems as though it's not even helping at all.

I also had an arginine infusion test done to determine if I was GH deficient as my IGF numbers are low. The doctor said I was not, although I still think this is a problem.

This blood test is little old, 3 months ago. I will be getting everything tested again next week.

Anyone that has advice, I would really appreciate any recommendations as far as what to try. I am desperate to try to get better.


Total T: 581.87 (241-827)ng dl

SHBG 46 (10-60) nmol/L

Free T: 9.3 (12.4-40.0) pg/ml

Estadial: 33.81 (0-52) pg/ml

FSH: 4.4 (1.4-18.1) mIu/ml

LH: 6.0 (1.5-9.3) mIu/ml


IGF1 94 (106-277)
IGF3 2.7 (3.4-6.7)

Free T4 1.01 (.61-1.12)
Free T3 2.81 (2.50-3.90)

Cortisol stimulation

Cortisol Basel 12.6 (8.7-22.4)
Aldosterone 28 (nh/dL <=21
you have potential low thyroid look at ft3 levels that are at bottom end of range. Raising t-3 can drive igf-1 levels up this is heavy validated by clincal studies. Also you have a conversion proble level of t4 to t3 is not equal resulting in someting causeing slow D1 enyzme (t4 to t3).
If you were a patient of ours we be going after thyroid and looking at ft3/rt3 ratio and find out what could be imbalanced causing that. I think that is where your problems lies and I beleive if you check vitamin D 25 oh you may get your answer. i just had a patient with same thing and their thyroid was normal then I saw the results and asked them if they swtich brand of something and stopped vitamin D ..There ft3 dropped and rt3 went sky high same as estrogen.. I corrected these things retested and thyroid is normal e2 dropped and feeling much much better.
 

Ession

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Pay attention to the suttle changes in your body. Is your vision a little worse? Are your eyes sensative to light and wind. Is your memory not as good. Is your libido getting weaker as time goes on. Do you have stomach problems, like an ulcer?

If you continue to use the drug pay attention to things like these. They were signs that I did not really relate to the medication. Don't believe Merck's claims, that if you quit eveything will go back to normal with a few months. If you do decide to quit, wean off of it gradually. Cut it into smaller pieces, gradually lessening the dose.
Wow. Surprisingly enough my vision in my left eye became so bad, I've needed glasses. My memory has been off, But my libido is actually much higher and I don't have any stomach issues( at least I don't believe I do)

it's just that I'm 21, and I don't want to be bald this young....so it's the only option for me.

Good luck with everything though man. I hope for the best for you.
 

hypotiredRI

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you have potential low thyroid look at ft3 levels that are at bottom end of range. Raising t-3 can drive igf-1 levels up this is heavy validated by clincal studies. Also you have a conversion proble level of t4 to t3 is not equal resulting in someting causeing slow D1 enyzme (t4 to t3).
If you were a patient of ours we be going after thyroid and looking at ft3/rt3 ratio and find out what could be imbalanced causing that. I think that is where your problems lies and I beleive if you check vitamin D 25 oh you may get your answer. i just had a patient with same thing and their thyroid was normal then I saw the results and asked them if they swtich brand of something and stopped vitamin D ..There ft3 dropped and rt3 went sky high same as estrogen.. I corrected these things retested and thyroid is normal e2 dropped and feeling much much better.

The Matrix,

Thanks for your response. I was trying to contact you through PM before, but your in box was full.

What do you mean by if you checked Vit D25, I would have my answer? I have had my Vit D levels checked several times. Each time the number was not good.

I have suspected that Thryoid could be my problem. So what do you suggest I do. You mention if I were a patient of yours. Where is your practice? I may be willing to travel if it's in the US, to get good medical care.
 

hypotiredRI

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Ession,

This is obviously your decision to make, but I think with playing with fire. One thing I can tell you is the drug will make things progressively worse over time. Pay attention to any changes you notice in your body.

You may think having your hair is worth the cost of slightly worse vision, However the drug will likely continue to skew your endocrine system up over time. Unfortunately, the damaging effects of the drug do not simply go away once you quit as Merck states.

I only wish I had discovered forums like this one below, before I taken the drug. I would not choose hair over life.

Go to propeciahelp.com and click on forums and go to member stories. (I am unable to post links; not enough user history on this site)

Good luck to you.
 

superone

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I dont have any advice but, I'm currently using finasteride and now youre making me worried that in 5 years, my endocrine system will fail.

Do you have any side effects at all? How can people be sure propecia messed up their endocrine system? Why would it do this? Maybe the poster is low in zinc, maybe iodine, vitamin D3,ect, that is contributing to these hormonal problems? His Cortisol is low aswell it should be near the top of the range. Low zinc as ive read can cause high estradiol, low IGF-1, Low T3, low Testosterone, and Vitamin D3 also raises Testosterone. I know we lose a lot of Zinc when we ejaculate, drink alcohol, stress,ect.



The poster should have gotton DHT levels checked.
 
The Matrix

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The Matrix,

Thanks for your response. I was trying to contact you through PM before, but your in box was full.

What do you mean by if you checked Vit D25, I would have my answer? I have had my Vit D levels checked several times. Each time the number was not good.

I have suspected that Thryoid could be my problem. So what do you suggest I do. You mention if I were a patient of yours. Where is your practice? I may be willing to travel if it's in the US, to get good medical care.
With high shbg then I suspect that you have an aborption issue as suspected if levels are not going up. I took 100,000 ius a day for a month it did not budge. Untill I swtich to different brand that was more absorbable did it move and also depression and other symptoms got alot better
 

superone

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That stuff is pure Poison IMO, killing of your DHT just to have a full set of hair is not worth it IMO. I would advise you to discontinue taking it asap if you already haven't. I'm bald and happy with it.

YouTube- PERMANENT PROPECIA, FINASTERIDE SIDE EFFECTS: The Post Propecia Syndrome

I dont know if its poison for everybody. Here is a guy who uses it with no side effects and still maintains a great physique. I dont really beleive in the permanent side effect thing. Maybe people need to detox their body to remove the left over drug deposits that stay in your body from drug use, or maybe something else is going on like a deficiency in something. Propecia seems to trigger depression in me but i think the root cause is that im low in something like vitamin d, zinc, omega-3's, or something else. Going bald does suck especially if your a good looking guy and your young.


I had some depression from a situation that made no sense that it would get me upset over. I was taking propecia, sustain alpha, and formastene, just because i was scared that propecia might increase my estrogen too much so i wanted to take things to control it. I was extremely depressed at this time. Then i got off everything and felt normal after 1 month. Then i tried Sustain Alpha by itself and it triggered the same depression. maybe because the Resveratrol increases progesterone, lowers cortisol, or acts like a phytoestrogen, who knows. Then i stopped and everything went back to normal. Then i thought maybe my DHT wasnt high enough and that was causing some depression, so i tried some proviron and that too triggered depression. Ive stopped taking it for 2 days and i feel pretty normal again.


I have no clue why these things trigger depression in me and obviously DHT levels arent the cause as i thought propecia was causing it, but proviron triggered it aswell. Maybe because it lowers SHBG and increased my free estrogen too much who knows.


Maybe i have a deficiency in something like vitamin d, zinc, or omega-3's which are making me depressed. I might try propecia alone with 10,000IU of vitamin D3, Zinc, and Krill oil and see if this doesnt cure any depression or whatever. I know all these things increases sex drive aswell. Who knows, i know i like looking in the mirror and seeing a nice head of hair on me because for some reason it makes me feel better and i think i look better too. I dont think increasing your DHT levels and looking at yourself balding in the mirror is going to make you feel good. Who knows im just rambling out idea's but i know proviron didnt do anything to make me feel better than i normally do and Proviron is like oral DHT.


http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=54210&start=160
 

superone

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Ession

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It's crazy! Before I started fin, I saw peapoddy story and said "damn that's inspirational." I posted my story on those forums as well. But mine isn't a success story yet...still in the "tell your story"

it's easy for others to speak btw. Especially if they have a full head of hair. But when you're 21 and about to lose it all, the mindset changes.
 

hypotiredRI

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Superone,

Go over to propeciahelp.com Go to the forum; Then go to the section labeled memeber stories.

Read some of them and be absolutely honest with yourself. I'll bet you also are experiencing some of the same things these guys are. If your not, go back there in two years and read some more posts. Eventually, it will damage your endocrine system, liver, kidneys or some other aspect of your overall health.

I had a great physique for several years on the ****, but eventually it caught up with me. The side effects gradually got worse as time went on. THe drug should be pulled from the market.

How long have you taken for? DO you seriously intend to take it for 10, 20 years or longer. You'll love this part, the real kicker is when eventually the sides get so bad that you decide you can't take it any more and quit; your body's endocrine system crashes and things get far worse.

It certainly sucks to lose your hair there is no argument about that, but Propecia is about as unhealthy a choice as you could make.
 
The Matrix

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superone

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Superone,

Go over to propeciahelp.com Go to the forum; Then go to the section labeled memeber stories.

Read some of them and be absolutely honest with yourself. I'll bet you also are experiencing some of the same things these guys are. If your not, go back there in two years and read some more posts. Eventually, it will damage your endocrine system, liver, kidneys or some other aspect of your overall health.

I had a great physique for several years on the ****, but eventually it caught up with me. The side effects gradually got worse as time went on. THe drug should be pulled from the market.

How long have you taken for? DO you seriously intend to take it for 10, 20 years or longer. You'll love this part, the real kicker is when eventually the sides get so bad that you decide you can't take it any more and quit; your body's endocrine system crashes and things get far worse.

It certainly sucks to lose your hair there is no argument about that, but Propecia is about as unhealthy a choice as you could make.


That forum is the worst thing you can do because if thats all thats on your mind, all these kinds of side effects and stuff, than you WILL get them. Just like people with cancer, so many times you hear of people dying like 1 month after they get told they have cancer, your mind is extremely powerfull. If you expect to get side effects, you absolutely will. The sides i have gotton before were depression, but im prone to seasonal depression and propecia just made it worse. I'll bet if i was out in the sun and also took vitamin D3, it would fix it. I dont beleive it damages your endocrine system, thats just me. I think your problem is your adrenals because your cortisol should be much higher.



Ive been on and off the drug lots of times and everything always went back to normal. Any drugs in general tend to make me not feel the best ever, but i dont think DHT levels should cause all these problems. The last thing i would do is read people stories of people getting all these side effects. I would try Vitamin D3 in higher doses as one guy claimed all his watery semen, sex drive, and brain fog was cured taking Vitamin D3 for 1 month. Also, Maca is supposed to help balance hormones, and tongkat ali should lower SHBG and boost Testosterone. If your DHT levels are still low than Promordial Performance has a product called Androhard that will increase your DHT. The less reading you do on the forums the better trust me.
 

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Get a product called Moodmax from the lininstitute and thank me later buddy. I do not represent them or anything but seeing that your testosterone is fine that should fix your libido. finasteride and propecia will shrink the penis and destroy your testosterone over time.
 
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skratch

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Id like to chime in on this,to the op...I went on a high dose t4 cutting cycle back in 04 and the sides you descibed are exactly what I noticed on t4.

I was very sensitive to light,I would feel really spaced out and my memory and vision all were affected.

Your sides might be from your thyroid and not from fina.

Now I have been on fina at a very very low dose every 3rd day for about 5 months and Im not seeing anysides what so every.

I take about .25 mg every 3 days and nolva once and a while to kill estrogen.The first 3 weeks I lost a lot of stregth in the gym and now Im actually bigger and stronger on the stuff,you just have to be very carefull how you dose it. 2mg for me killed my sex drive for 3 full days.the stuff is no joke.

How many mg were you taking?

Ohhh and the stuff works wonders,my hair is 10x better and its only been 6 months.
 
TripDog

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Id like to chime in on this,to the op...I went on a high dose t4 cutting cycle back in 04 and the sides you descibed are exactly what I noticed on t4.

I was very sensitive to light,I would feel really spaced out and my memory and vision all were affected.

Your sides might be from your thyroid and not from fina.

Now I have been on fina at a very very low dose every 3rd day for about 5 months and Im not seeing anysides what so every.

I take about .25 mg every 3 days and nolva once and a while to kill estrogen.The first 3 weeks I lost a lot of stregth in the gym and now Im actually bigger and stronger on the stuff,you just have to be very carefull how you dose it. 2mg for me killed my sex drive for 3 full days.the stuff is no joke.

How many mg were you taking?

Ohhh and the stuff works wonders,my hair is 10x better and its only been 6 months.
Some have crushed pills and added to minox with minimal systemic issues.
 

hypotiredRI

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Id like to chime in on this,to the op...I went on a high dose t4 cutting cycle back in 04 and the sides you descibed are exactly what I noticed on t4.

I was very sensitive to light,I would feel really spaced out and my memory and vision all were affected.

Your sides might be from your thyroid and not from fina.

Now I have been on fina at a very very low dose every 3rd day for about 5 months and Im not seeing anysides what so every.

I take about .25 mg every 3 days and nolva once and a while to kill estrogen.The first 3 weeks I lost a lot of stregth in the gym and now Im actually bigger and stronger on the stuff,you just have to be very carefull how you dose it. 2mg for me killed my sex drive for 3 full days.the stuff is no joke.

How many mg were you taking?

Ohhh and the stuff works wonders,my hair is 10x better and its only been 6 months.
Scratch,

Are you saying your taking .25mg finasteride every 3 days? You may not be experiencing any sides now, but I took it for more than 5 years. Many guys don't have sides initially, it just comes on all of a sudden years into taking it.

Regarding the possible thyroid issues. I agree and I am investigating this now with a doctor. I have been told by several people to look at low thyroid as the culprit.

2mg for me killed my sex drive for 3 full days.the stuff is no joke.

How many mg were you taking?

The doesn't really matter in terms of the damage it does to your body. You might want to do a little more research about this stuff, this drug interacts with the hypothalmus and the pituitary gland. Some of the sides you get will be neurological in nature.

When you do get side effects over time, they will gradually get worse.
You can try to ween off of it, but it won't make a difference it will shut down your endocrine system. Believe me, I have read thousands of stories of it doing the same thing to men of all ages.

The bottom line is I would never take that poison again. I will shave my head before I put the horrible poison into my body again.
 

skratch

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were you on 5mg/day like most doctors perscibed?

Im taking really low doses just enough to lower skulpt dht.I have liquid fina and take under a half miligram every 3 or 4 days.It works verywell for me this way,its just enough to lower dht and not kill it all.

I take the dropper and just put a small dab on my tounge thats it!!!

when I took 2mg it completly killed my sex drive and I couldnt get a hard on for the life of me.I cant imagine what 5mg would do to a man.
 

hypotiredRI

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were you on 5mg/day like most doctors perscibed?

Im taking really low doses just enough to lower skulpt dht.I have liquid fina and take under a half miligram every 3 or 4 days.It works verywell for me this way,its just enough to lower dht and not kill it all.

I take the dropper and just put a small dab on my tounge thats it!!!

when I took 2mg it completly killed my sex drive and I couldnt get a hard on for the life of me.I cant imagine what 5mg would do to a man.
I hope it works for you. I know it worked well for me and I actually would say looking back on it, it might have had a steriodal effect on me. I got even bigger when was using it. Eventually everything turned for this worse, as usually happens when you try to to mess with your hormones.
 

skratch

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I hope it works for you. I know it worked well for me and I actually would say looking back on it, it might have had a steriodal effect on me. I got even bigger when was using it. Eventually everything turned for this worse, as usually happens when you try to to mess with your hormones.
Its having an anabolic affect on me now,I almost feel like im on deca.I am slowly getting bigger and kinda bloated.

Im doing some nolva to lower the estrogen but so far so good no major problems.

You post dose concern me alot tho and has me scared for long term use.Honeslty how many milgrams were you on and were you taking it every day?
 

diesiel

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Finasteride is almost a flat dose response drug, .25 mg is pretty much almost as powerful as 5 mg. And if you think that lowering the dose will somehow miraculously lower your symptoms yet keep the hair benefits, you're mistaken.
 

skratch

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Finasteride is almost a flat dose response drug, .25 mg is pretty much almost as powerful as 5 mg. And if you think that lowering the dose will somehow miraculously lower your symptoms yet keep the hair benefits, you're mistaken.
well at 5mg I couldnt get a hard on for 2 days,litterally could not get an errection.

With what im taking now I dont have any issues with my sex drive and my hair feels healthy and soft and is making a difference.

I also take it every 3 days and there are pages online saying .25 lowers dht in your skulpt just as much as 5mg and has very little effect on dht in the rest of your body.

Im noticing the hair benefits and Im just sharing my story.If the op was on 5mg per day for 5 years then I can totally understand if his hormons are all messed up.

1mg,2mg and 5mg all have worse sides with the more you take,have you ever even tried the stuff?

5mg is brutal and I would never take that much again!!!

like you said tho,after 5mg the dht on your head isnt going to get any lower but also .25-1mg lowers it just as much as 5mg does.People on the hairloss forums run this stuff every other day to keep the sides down.

I use an eyedropper and try to get it at around .25 but its prolly closer to .65-1mg and I dont take it every day.
 

hypotiredRI

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Finasteride is almost a flat dose response drug, .25 mg is pretty much almost as powerful as 5 mg. And if you think that lowering the dose will somehow miraculously lower your symptoms yet keep the hair benefits, you're mistaken.

scratch,

I used 1mg daily as prescribed. Why would anyone use 5mg. I have never seen that dosage recommended anywhere.

I quoted diesiel's comments because in a nutshell, that's how propecia works. There is no need for me to try to repeat this. You can lower the dosage, but you're still going to get the same side effects.
 

FrankJ

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Pay attention to the suttle changes in your body. Is your vision a little worse? Are your eyes sensative to light and wind. Is your memory not as good. Is your libido getting weaker as time goes on. Do you have stomach problems, like an ulcer?
Not trying to offend you, but reading this quote makes me think you are a hypochondriac and might get better results from mental health treatment. These 'subtle things' you are talking about are typical things people report to doctors when they are 'looking for a problem' with their health. Most of them are actually using their 'sickness' to avoid some other problem in their life they dont want to tackle, like being single, having a crappy or no career, in a bad marriage ect.

Your bloodwork looks pretty normal, actually its probably better than most people, and I would guess that if you had other tests some things that are borderline low would be normal, and maybe even some other value might be borderline out of range.

Do yourself a favor and look into yourself for the answer. I myself had the exact same symptoms you describe, and spent a lot of time ( and my health insurers money ) looking for a problem before one doctor gave me what at the time I thougth was a miracle drug - it was anti-anxiety medication, and my real health problem was a stressful job that demanded 100 hours a week. I promptly quit and have felt 'normal' since.
 

hypotiredRI

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Not trying to offend you, but reading this quote makes me think you are a hypochondriac and might get better results from mental health treatment. These 'subtle things' you are talking about are typical things people report to doctors when they are 'looking for a problem' with their health. Most of them are actually using their 'sickness' to avoid some other problem in their life they dont want to tackle, like being single, having a crappy or no career, in a bad marriage ect.

Your bloodwork looks pretty normal, actually its probably better than most people, and I would guess that if you had other tests some things that are borderline low would be normal, and maybe even some other value might be borderline out of range.

Do yourself a favor and look into yourself for the answer. I myself had the exact same symptoms you describe, and spent a lot of time ( and my health insurers money ) looking for a problem before one doctor gave me what at the time I thougth was a miracle drug - it was anti-anxiety medication, and my real health problem was a stressful job that demanded 100 hours a week. I promptly quit and have felt 'normal' since.


You are an absolute idiot and that is an understatement. If you have nothing of worth to add, why don't you keep your mouth shut buddy!

Simply because you have a mental health problem, doesn't mean other people do. It's IGNORANT people like you that ruin forums like this. You have no idea what I am experiencing, so go crawl under the rock where you came from.

My guess is your a propecia user and haven't come to grips to with the reality that your f'n up your own health. Go look in the mirror at your pretty hair and ignore the fact that it's destroying your body. You are the definition of ignorant a person.
 

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