PLEASE help 29 low test. sorry buts its a long story

[grabagear]

Sorry for the bad grammer and puncuation but i just found this site after hours of searching for help and i can barley keep my eyes open but wanted to ask before i go to bed in hopes that there are some replies when i get up
I will try to make a long story short. I have been feeling very "lazy" and tired all the time! no matter how much sleep i get or dont get i feel the same. it started about 5 years ago but at first i blammed it on working 3rd shift. then i switched to 2nd shift felt the same. again back to 3rd. sleeping all the time hard to get out of bed etc etc.
Finally get a first shift spot at work and i was sooo pumped because i thought i would start to feel better!
it has been 1yr on 1st shift and this past year is the worst ever!!! my symptoms are starting to interfere with my marriage, work, everything!!!
So went to my regular doc. he says by the symptoms i have he immediatly thinks "low test" but not likely cus im so young. he gives me a sample of "provigul" a stimulant and tells me to have a sleep study done. well the provigul didnt do anything and i had to wait a week for the sleep study results so he gave me another stimulant to try for a week. that didnt work either...
sleep study results came back perfect! which i knew they would but my regular doc just wanted to make sure i didnt have sleep apnea or narcolepsy of some sort.
regular doc then does blood work and my test comes back at 240! he says its just barley lower than the norm range which he says is 250-900 or something like that. he then recommended an endocronologist(spelling?) i go see her and she orders a ton of blood work! that takes 2 weeks to get back.
in the mean time i research low test and i find that every symptom i could find for it I HAVE! and its getting worse everyday! i can barley function anymore.
test come back from endo. she says yes you have low test but its technically still in the national average? i said yeah but what about my age? and the fact that i am in perfect health otherwise? she says she wont treat unless well below the average no matter what...then she says she thinks i have a form of narcolepsy and i should go back to the sleep doc.
I call the sleep doc up and tell him what the endo said. he says he thinks its the low test! but he cant prescribe. so he gives me yet another stimulant to get me by. adderall! that stuff sucks! makes my eyes wired but not my body and it supresses your hunger!
So i call my regular doc back and he says that since 3 different stimulants didnt work that he also thinks it is related to the low test! and that because i have tried 3 different stimuilants and rulled out all sleep disorders it makes him think it is the low test. and he says that my number of 240 is lower than most 60 yr olds he tests!
So he says well maybe we should try HRT specifically "androgel" but he is hesitant because of side effects and the fact that if it works, once you start you might have to be on it for life and thats a big deal.so i am meeting with him on wed. of this coming week to talk. any advice or things i should bring up?
one thing that i recently thought of that my doc doesnt know yet is that when i was 21 or so i did 2 cycles of sust 250. i was a stupid kid and just listened to the big guy at the gym on how to take it and what to do after etc etc.i did one shot a week of the pre charged vials of sust 250 i think the manufacturer was organon? or something like that? anyway i just recently thought that this might be related?
Do you think that 2 small 8 weeks cycles of sust 250 could have possibly put the breaks on my natural test production???? if so would the treatment be the same? im 29 now good diet work out when i can force myself out of the house. the docs have checked all the standard things that would cause low test and dont know why its so low. Think i should push for the androgel?
im at my wits end and need to do something i feel like im 80 yrs old! and it wont be long before my work notices and wife freaks out
Thank you for any and all advice! I dont know where else to ask?
sorry this is sooooo long but i wanted to tell the whole story so you would have alll the details!
thanks again!

 

[ambulldog]

look into hrt or anti aging clinics. they are more likely to work with you. im kinda in same boat but little older. clinically my test is fine but barely so im going with a hrt clinic and because of my age im getting no hassle getting the goods. good luck

 

[spinn]

Do not take stimulants, they will suppress your adrenals. There is a lot more to hrt than just taking Testosterone, despite what your drs seem to think. Where do you live, maybe there is a good doctor near you? Most of what your Drs are doing seems to be wrong.

 

[grabagear]

thanks for the replies. i live in WI near madison. i will do a google search for hrt docs. and see what i come up with

 

[JanSz]

Sorry for the bad grammer and puncuation but i just found this site after hours of searching for help and i can barley keep my eyes open but wanted to ask before i go to bed in hopes that there are some replies when i get up
I will try to make a long story short. I have been feeling very "lazy" and tired all the time! no matter how much sleep i get or dont get i feel the same. it started about 5 years ago but at first i blammed it on working 3rd shift. then i switched to 2nd shift felt the same. again back to 3rd. sleeping all the time hard to get out of bed etc etc.
Finally get a first shift spot at work and i was sooo pumped because i thought i would start to feel better!
it has been 1yr on 1st shift and this past year is the worst ever!!! my symptoms are starting to interfere with my marriage, work, everything!!!
So went to my regular doc. he says by the symptoms i have he immediatly thinks "low test" but not likely cus im so young. he gives me a sample of "provigul" a stimulant and tells me to have a sleep study done. well the provigul didnt do anything and i had to wait a week for the sleep study results so he gave me another stimulant to try for a week. that didnt work either...
sleep study results came back perfect! which i knew they would but my regular doc just wanted to make sure i didnt have sleep apnea or narcolepsy of some sort.
regular doc then does blood work and my test comes back at 240! he says its just barley lower than the norm range which he says is 250-900 or something like that. he then recommended an endocronologist(spelling?) i go see her and she orders a ton of blood work! that takes 2 weeks to get back.
in the mean time i research low test and i find that every symptom i could find for it I HAVE! and its getting worse everyday! i can barley function anymore.
test come back from endo. she says yes you have low test but its technically still in the national average? i said yeah but what about my age? and the fact that i am in perfect health otherwise? she says she wont treat unless well below the average no matter what...then she says she thinks i have a form of narcolepsy and i should go back to the sleep doc.
I call the sleep doc up and tell him what the endo said. he says he thinks its the low test! but he cant prescribe. so he gives me yet another stimulant to get me by. adderall! that stuff sucks! makes my eyes wired but not my body and it supresses your hunger!
So i call my regular doc back and he says that since 3 different stimulants didnt work that he also thinks it is related to the low test! and that because i have tried 3 different stimuilants and rulled out all sleep disorders it makes him think it is the low test. and he says that my number of 240 is lower than most 60 yr olds he tests!
So he says well maybe we should try HRT specifically "androgel" but he is hesitant because of side effects and the fact that if it works, once you start you might have to be on it for life and thats a big deal.so i am meeting with him on wed. of this coming week to talk. any advice or things i should bring up?
one thing that i recently thought of that my doc doesnt know yet is that when i was 21 or so i did 2 cycles of sust 250. i was a stupid kid and just listened to the big guy at the gym on how to take it and what to do after etc etc.i did one shot a week of the pre charged vials of sust 250 i think the manufacturer was organon? or something like that? anyway i just recently thought that this might be related?
Do you think that 2 small 8 weeks cycles of sust 250 could have possibly put the breaks on my natural test production???? if so would the treatment be the same? im 29 now good diet work out when i can force myself out of the house. the docs have checked all the standard things that would cause low test and dont know why its so low. Think i should push for the androgel?
im at my wits end and need to do something i feel like im 80 yrs old! and it wont be long before my work notices and wife freaks out
Thank you for any and all advice! I dont know where else to ask?
sorry this is sooooo long but i wanted to tell the whole story so you would have alll the details!
thanks again!

Ok, you are 29yo
at 21yo you did couple cycles of steroids
Most likely that did you in.

Make sure to stay on 1st shift.

What to do?
#1---Give up on any thoughts of restarting your system.
Many in your situation waste time and $$ and good will trying to restart.

#2---post all tests that you may have going back 10 years
#3---post all your lattest tests

scan each page and post it here, using this service

http://img693.imageshack.us
so we can easily read what you have.

Most likely you will need to be on Testosterone + HCG for life.
It is not end of the world, do not panic.

Testosterone comes basically in two forms
Transdermal and injectable.

Make sure that you do not use any compouded testosterone, low quality, you will chase you tail.

Transdermal (Androgel or Testogel) are expensive, even if not, they should be used only if someone have low DHT, that is only few people.

Most do fine on shots.
T-shots to be effective must be frequent.

To work properly, shots must be done EOD EveryOtherDay
To be able to do two shots (T + HCG) EOD you have to use smallest available needle and syringe, this one:

BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle
can be bought over internet.
Also HCG should be bought over internet, even if script is available from doctor.
Local pharmacies are selling very large 10000iu vials.
We need very small amounts. It goes bad long before is used up.
Best to buy 1000iu ampoules
2000iu HUCOG is already a stretch, I have to trow out 1/3 of unused.
At least it is cheap.


Some people have iron management problem.
That is very important.
When planning to use testosterone, first must do iron study.

Some people must do periodic phlebotomies.
After iron is under control they may do TRT.

Post your tests.

Good luck.


..

 

[CrazyChemist]

An HRT doc will def prescribe to you. The regular docs don't want to prescribe because of the side effects of HRT. Make sure you look into this.

Do you and your wife want more kids? If you go on HRT you could atrophy your testes and render you infertile.

My test is naturally ~300 so I know what you are going thru. I'm only 25 so I'm not going to go on HRT yet.

 

[grabagear]

well i looked into the hrt doc but the 2 that are within an hour of me are not in my insurance network... I dont physically have all the bllod work results on me. each doc i have gone to see would just call and get the results from my original doc. My regular physician sounds like he will prescribe me. He was going to do some more research of his own before our next visit which is this coming week.
I have had a couple people say that they dont think such a small cycle of sust 250 would have stopped my natural test. I have also had a few people now say that it probably is the culprit?
Im sure my regular doc doesnt know much about anabolics but i suppose i should tell him right away the next time i see him, what do you think?

 

[spinn]

The first thing I would do is get your labs from whatever DR has them. They have to give them to you. I admit to being cynical but i had drs tell me I was fine, just depressed, when i knew i was sick. You have to take ownership of this problem.

 

[JanSz]

An HRT doc will def prescribe to you. The regular docs don't want to prescribe because of the side effects of HRT. Make sure you look into this.

Do you and your wife want more kids? If you go on HRT you could atrophy your testes and render you infertile.

My test is naturally ~300 so I know what you are going thru. I'm only 25 so I'm not going to go on HRT yet.

If one uses normal TRT guided by good blood tests,
and
if he uses small amount of HCG
he will stay fertile.

Couple days ago, at dr john bb, BillNJ anounced that he got her pegnant,
after few years on TRT.

(proper TRT)
(not a BS TRT)
..

 

[JanSz]

well i looked into the hrt doc but the 2 that are within an hour of me are not in my insurance network... I dont physically have all the bllod work results on me. each doc i have gone to see would just call and get the results from my original doc. My regular physician sounds like he will prescribe me. He was going to do some more research of his own before our next visit which is this coming week.
I have had a couple people say that they dont think such a small cycle of sust 250 would have stopped my natural test. I have also had a few people now say that it probably is the culprit?
Im sure my regular doc doesnt know much about anabolics but i suppose i should tell him right away the next time i see him, what do you think?

Right now it will be anybody's guess.
I would say it is because of your use of Sustanon you have this problem.
Others may argue that your problem is due to different reason.

All that arguing is not going to help you, regardless of who is right.

Blaming Sustanon may be the easy way out.
That creates one possible route of action.
Do you want to do pituitary MRI first, checking for tumor there?
That is another possibility.

Have you been hit in the place where nose meets with forehead??

Get all tests, from all doctors that have anything on you.
Post them.
We will talk latter.


..

 

[grabagear]

the endocrinologist did a blood test specifically related to the pituitary and she said she didnt think an MRI was needed. They checked everything out that i know of and said I am fine...
update--my regular physician just called me! I asked what he was doin calling me on a sunday and he said he comes in sunday nights after supper to return calls and do research. well thats nice i said... anyway he said that he talked to the sleep doc and the endo. and some other friend of his that deals with hormones. he said that all 3 thought that taking test wouldnt be the answer.
then he said from his own research he thinks that I would benefit from it! Doc says its up to me? Since I have tried 3 different types of stimulants had a sleep study physical and a bunch of other crap that he thinks even though i am in the national "norm" for numbers, that it doesnt mean that "my" normal number isnt alot higher. I thought that made sense... Its to bad i dont have any blood tests from years ago to help establish a baseline.
So i guess I will go ahead with it what do you think? he said he would prefer androgel and my ins. does cover it. Doc says he would first have to do a check for prostate cancer and a psa blood test just because thats standard protocal before a prescription is written. Then put me on for 3 months and see if it helps?
I said then what happens after 3 months? The doc said that after 3 months if I feel better/symptoms gone, that we would continue with the sndrogel. and if i feel the same well then it didnt work?
So you think its worth a try? I am still going in this week to talk in person I will ask for the test results!

 

[JanSz]

the endocrinologist did a blood test specifically related to the pituitary and she said she didnt think an MRI was needed. They checked everything out that i know of and said I am fine...
update--my regular physician just called me! I asked what he was doin calling me on a sunday and he said he comes in sunday nights after supper to return calls and do research. well thats nice i said... anyway he said that he talked to the sleep doc and the endo. and some other friend of his that deals with hormones. he said that all 3 thought that taking test wouldnt be the answer.
then he said from his own research he thinks that I would benefit from it! Doc says its up to me? Since I have tried 3 different types of stimulants had a sleep study physical and a bunch of other crap that he thinks even though i am in the national "norm" for numbers, that it doesnt mean that "my" normal number isnt alot higher. I thought that made sense... Its to bad i dont have any blood tests from years ago to help establish a baseline.
So i guess I will go ahead with it what do you think? he said he would prefer androgel and my ins. does cover it. Doc says he would first have to do a check for prostate cancer and a psa blood test just because thats standard protocal before a prescription is written. Then put me on for 3 months and see if it helps?
I said then what happens after 3 months? The doc said that after 3 months if I feel better/symptoms gone, that we would continue with the sndrogel. and if i feel the same well then it didnt work?
So you think its worth a try? I am still going in this week to talk in person I will ask for the test results!

Doctors worry about PSA and prostate cancer.
We may leave this for another time, let them do what they want in that regard.

Good that preliminary pituitary check looks good.

About Androgel.

If you do not have any other choice, ask for 10grams Androgel/day
That is two 5grams packets.
May be in pumps.

I suggest that you do not rush with Androgel.

First of all, you should not rush with any form of testosterone.
First you should do a good background check.

Preferably you should do my long list of tests at Quest Diagnostics.
Per list on my post #44, page #2, here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

If you cannot go to Quest Diagnostics, I have another list.

You may have other than low test problems.
You may have iron problem.
You may have other health problems all together.
That list would help to ferret out number of possibilities.

----------------------
Another reason against Androgel.

If your DHT is currently at good level or high, Androgel will make it sky high, very unhealthy.

If that is the case (which is the case for majority) you would rather need T injections.

---------------------

How much testosterone do you need?

As much as it take to get your BAT (BioAvailableTestosterone) into top range or real close to it.
If you test At Quest, you will get the numbers for BAT from the test list I have given you.

You want to be at BAT~575

The Toatal Testosterone may have to be very high if you happen to have SHBG high
Or Required Totaltestosterone may need to be low if you happen to have SHBG real low.

SHBG is the king.


--------------

 

[grabagear]

update! well i went to the Doc last night and he wanted to go ahead with the androgel if I wanted to...So I said yes. He wrote me a script and said i should check in with him in a month and at 3 months he would recheck all my bloodwork and go from there.
I havent been able to upload my test results yet. but i do know that of 4 different tests all done before 9am. the main numbers were between242-and the highest test was 289. my doc said he was curious what his own was so he had himself tested and his number was 500 something and he is about 55 years old! I am 29yrs old.
I did ask him about the injectables but he said he has seen better results from androgel and that with injectables he has seen alot more side effects.
i pick it up wed night after work. cant wait.

 

[CrazyChemist]

update! well i went to the Doc last night and he wanted to go ahead with the androgel if I wanted to...So I said yes. He wrote me a script and said i should check in with him in a month and at 3 months he would recheck all my bloodwork and go from there.
I havent been able to upload my test results yet. but i do know that of 4 different tests all done before 9am. the main numbers were between242-and the highest test was 289. my doc said he was curious what his own was so he had himself tested and his number was 500 something and he is about 55 years old! I am 29yrs old.
I did ask him about the injectables but he said he has seen better results from androgel and that with injectables he has seen alot more side effects.
i pick it up wed night after work. cant wait.

congrats bro. i hope it helps. Make sure you discuss all long-term effects with your doctor though. Good luck.