HCG AND TRT DOSING

[bigsexy74]

hey guys, i know i've read info on this subject somewhere on the forums but for the life of me can't find it. i've been on trt since 08 and my levels have only come up from 188 to 331, i am meeting with an endo in may and want to present this therapy to him. can anyone who has done this tell me about dosages of hcg and how many times (ie, 25mcg every 2 weeks). and also should i bring up an ai during this cycle of trt? i have seen some people taking an ai to keep the e2 levels at bay. thanks guys, sorry if this has been addressed somewhere i just can't find it.

 

[bigsexy74]

did some more reading and found the average dosing to be 250iu eod, sound about right?

 

[spinn]

did some more reading and found the average dosing to be 250iu eod, sound about right?

its usually 250 ius every 3 days, not two. And I would not see an endo, they do not know anything about hrt. I would call a local compounding pharmacy and ask for hrt docs. endos are just awful.

 

[ProfBush]

I agree with the 250 IU dosage and I do it EOD but I am baffled how your TRT could have failed to bring up your T level any more than that. Are you on transdermals and might have absorption problems because of low thyroid?

How high a dose have you tried? How frequently do you dose and when are your levels tested? Were you on a higher dose and had side effects and/or elevated E2?

I found that it was better for me to educate my PCP so he felt comfortable treating me rather than go to a so-called specialist.

 

[bigsexy74]

Name 03/05/2010 normal range
Testosterone, Free 70.1 50-210
Alb 4.5 3.3-4.8
Testosterone, Bioavailable 195.5 130.5-681.7
Testosterone 331 280-1100
Testosterone, % Free 2.1 1.6-2.9
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 24 13-71

this last panel was on 3/5, this was 6 weeks off of androgel. using 5g a day. i realize there should have been more tests run, which ones should i ask the endo about? the more i read about trt, i would like to try the hcg due to fertility reasons.

 

[bigsexy74]

bump, can anyone direct me to some reading or info that i can present to my endo that will show him the benefits of trt and hcg protocol?

 

[spinn]

bump, can anyone direct me to some reading or info that i can present to my endo that will show him the benefits of trt and hcg protocol?

yes see DR John's protocol here http://www.worldhealth.net/pdf/WhitePaper_GuidancePhysicians-HRT.pdf

also you wordin confused me, are you on androgel for 6 weeks now or off of it for 6 weeks.

Also resrarch on this board I would never see an endo, all they do is treat diabetes, and know nothing about hrt.

 

[bigsexy74]

the last test done on 3/5 was after me being off androgel for 6 weeks. i was on 5g a day for 90 days. what type of doc would you recommend me looking for. money is a bit of an issue so this would have to be through insurance which is why i want to go in prepared.

 

[spinn]

I would call a compounding pharmacy near you and ask them for a dr. Its a tough one because many dont take insurance.

Your dr should not be yo yoing you on ad off of it, that will really confuse your body.

 

[bigsexy74]

this was my primary that had me on the androgel, and when i asked him about the hcg protocol with a possible ai for my estradiol, he just told me to find an endo so he is no longer my pcp. just read the paper you recommended and will definitely print that out to show him.

 

[spinn]

maybe your dr could consult with dr john by phone, I believe that is relatively inexpensive.

 

[bigsexy74]

my doc is the one who referred me to an endo, and i don't meet with him until may 5th so i am just trying to gather everything i can as far as studies and results to argue my case about just plain ol injections. i found some labs that jansz suggest be ran so i will take that with me also.

 

[KSman]

250iu hCG EOD is what you need based on the 2005 research. Other recommendations were not based on research.

There is no reason to expect that hCG alone will create useful levels of T in most cases. hCG is for maintaining the testes, the alternative when on TRT is organ failure, reduced pregnenolone levels, lower DHEA [should be supplementing], small testes that do not hang, changes to one's sexual self image and how one is regarded by ones mate.

 

[spazface]

last time i saw my endo i came prepared with information. He got pissed and basically blew me off with "no need to follow up, don't take anymore supplements"... even though my LH was below range and my TTL test was a hair above the base of normal.

i'm basically in limbo like you, as insurance doesn't cover any "anti-aging" doc i've been able to speak with, one office said "the insurance companies don't recognize TRT/HRT as real therapy". It was very discouraging. One one side i WANT a doctor to monitor my TRT, but proper TRT(inj test/hcg/adex), and not get assraped with absorbant prices for meds which can easily be procured for 1/4 the price.

It sucks...

 

[KSman]

The diagnostic would be hypogonadism and pituitary insufficiency. The anti-aging doc will tell you that you can't get it covered on your insurance to keep you there.

Find compounding pharmacies in your region and ask them for referrals.

 

[bigsexy74]

ya spaz i hear ya, i've been reading your thread in this forum also, and i'm also looking at "alternatives" if this dr visit doesn't go as planned. i didn't know better and have just been using the gel that my primary prescribed. it looks like our levels are right around the same so i feel ya bro...i've read that the clomid works somewhat as a standalone but isn't highly reccomended.

 

[spazface]

ya spaz i hear ya, i've been reading your thread in this forum also, and i'm also looking at "alternatives" if this dr visit doesn't go as planned. i didn't know better and have just been using the gel that my primary prescribed. it looks like our levels are right around the same so i feel ya bro...i've read that the clomid works somewhat as a standalone but isn't highly reccomended.

i called all the compound pharmacies in my area today as well, ended up nowhere. Just gonna ride it out for a bit...

my understanding on what was going to be prescribed to me was
1shot 250mcg test cyp week(may have been 100mcg)
2 shots 250iu hcg per week
just not sure on the adex dosage they were gonna suggest per week

 

[bigsexy74]

@ spazface, did your endo initially prescribe that dosing? or did you have to go through an anti-aging doc to get that prescribed?