Reverse T3 (wilson's syndrome).... Is this a real/legit problem? - AnabolicMinds.com

Reverse T3 (wilson's syndrome).... Is this a real/legit problem?

  1. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    Reverse T3 (wilson's syndrome).... Is this a real/legit problem?


    Is reverse T3 a real and recognized problem? I just had additional bloodwork drawn today and the doctor accepted my request/insistance on having Rt3 tested... If my rt3 comes back high, this would indeed explain why I am having the hypothyroid/adrenal fatigue symptoms that I am dealing...... keeping fingers crossed XXXXXXXXX

  2. New Member
    punxweb's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    227
    Rep Power
    181

    Reputation

    Wilsons syndrome is not medically accepted as a true illness. It's symptoms are too broad to really pinpoint any really issue. High RT3 is a problem. RT3 blocks the receptor sites where T3 should be. I am dealing with high RT3 now. I have normal T3 and T4 levels but my RT3 and TSH is high.
  3. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    Wilsons syndrome is not medically accepted as a true illness. It's symptoms are too broad to really pinpoint any really issue. High RT3 is a problem. RT3 blocks the receptor sites where T3 should be. I am dealing with high RT3 now. I have normal T3 and T4 levels but my RT3 and TSH is high.
    What are you doing to combat the high rt3? are you using a T3 only protocol?
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    punxweb's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    227
    Rep Power
    181

    Reputation

    Drop any T4 & T3 combo meds and just go on T3. I have not been able to talk my doc into upping my T3 dose high enough to do anything. I am going to increase it myself if he does not get on the ball.
  5. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    Drop any T4 & T3 combo meds and just go on T3. I have not been able to talk my doc into upping my T3 dose high enough to do anything. I am going to increase it myself if he does not get on the ball.
    10 days ago I started using HC at 20-25mg/day.... My body temperature is still between 96 to 97.5... Just today I started on T3 @ 50mcg (25mcg am/ 25mcg pm)..... so i will continue to monitor my body temps and hopefully I can get my body temps up and get rid of the fatigue, depression, hair shedding and hypoglycemia...

    *** I am self dosing using meds that I have gotten from overseas pharmacies... does anyone know if Hisone (generic hydrocortisone) and Tiromel (t3) is legit? I just hope I am not using junk and wasting my time....
  6. New Member
    punxweb's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    227
    Rep Power
    181

    Reputation

    So you suspect adrenal issues? Have you done a 4 part saliva cortisol test? May want to. The hisone is the real deal. I have been using that at 25 mg per day for some time now. I don't know about the Tiromel.
  7. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    So you suspect adrenal issues? Have you done a 4 part saliva cortisol test? May want to. The hisone is the real deal. I have been using that at 25 mg per day for some time now. I don't know about the Tiromel.
    I took the 4x saliva cortisol test about 3 years ago and my levels were low morning, low noon, high evening, high late evening... I have the numbers listed in my adrenal/hypo thread in this forum... About 4 months ago is when the hypoglycemia symptoms really started to hit me hard so i knew i had to take action.... with or without doctors help..
  8. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by billytk03z View Post
    10 days ago I started using HC at 20-25mg/day.... My body temperature is still between 96 to 97.5... Just today I started on T3 @ 50mcg (25mcg am/ 25mcg pm)..... so i will continue to monitor my body temps and hopefully I can get my body temps up and get rid of the fatigue, depression, hair shedding and hypoglycemia...

    *** I am self dosing using meds that I have gotten from overseas pharmacies... does anyone know if Hisone (generic hydrocortisone) and Tiromel (t3) is legit? I just hope I am not using junk and wasting my time....
    You are fighting RT3
    high levels of RT3 are made from T4 (by misguided deiodinase)
    so you are trying to deplete your body of T4 because that will deplete RT3.

    if you lucky, this process will deplete your RT3
    and
    reset your deiodinase
    so latter it will produce only acceptable (low) RT3 levels

    When you take 50mcg-T3/day that my already shut down TSH, TSH~0
    Body will stop production of T4 when TSH~0
    and
    with time you will end up with low TT4 & FT4, you like that (for the time of RT3 therapy)
    but
    50mcg-T3/day
    is not sufficient to produce good FT3 & TT3 levels
    often
    75mcg/day
    is not sufficient
    you may have to go to 100mcg-T3 or even higher

    the only way to find out is by testing

    but I would say that there is no need for testing until after you are on 75mcg-T3 or if you do not feel any thing unusual, 100mcg/day
    ------------

    150mcg-T3/day is the highest known to me dose.

    ...
    After certain time you will register RT3 below low range or even less.

    Life on T3 only is vulnerable.
    You must have assured daily supply of T3


    I assume that 6-12 months period when you have RT3 level is sufficient.

    Reverting from 100mcg-T3/day (or higher)
    to
    long term (T4 + T3)
    can be started by switching to

    100mcg-T4 + 50mcg-T3

    you will stay 2-3 months on that level, then test and adjust accordingly.

    .........
  9. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    I have been on 50mcg of t3 with no bad feelings or hyper symptoms for the past 2 days.... I will bump up to 75mcg starting tommorrow..... Also in the next day or so I should have my blood work back and find out exactly where Im at in regards to my Rt3 levels.

    If im not mistaken from what Ive been told on this forum and from what Ive researched is that if one were to have any form of thyroid problem, Rt3 dominance would be the best to have because it is treatable and reversible.

    Also, the cause of my rt3 is completely understandable/logical considering I was a hardcore dieter, gym rat (over-training), stimulant user for many years prior to my body slowly crashing to the point of where I am now....
  10. Professional Member
    JanSz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,631
    Rep Power
    2414

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by billytk03z View Post
    I have been on 50mcg of t3 with no bad feelings or hyper symptoms for the past 2 days.... I will bump up to 75mcg starting tommorrow..... Also in the next day or so I should have my blood work back and find out exactly where Im at in regards to my Rt3 levels.

    If im not mistaken from what Ive been told on this forum and from what Ive researched is that if one were to have any form of thyroid problem, Rt3 dominance would be the best to have because it is treatable and reversible.

    Also, the cause of my rt3 is completely understandable/logical considering I was a hardcore dieter, gym rat (over-training), stimulant user for many years prior to my body slowly crashing to the point of where I am now....
    You have to get on higher T3 doses slowly.

    You have to wait for T4 to be depleted, it is slow process.
    If you are not patient enough,
    you may get hyperthyroid.

    Watch pulse, bp
    any night sweats
    ...
  11. Professional Member
    Gutterpump's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,540
    Rep Power
    148207

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    but
    50mcg-T3/day
    is not sufficient to produce good FT3 & TT3 levels
    often
    75mcg/day
    is not sufficient
    you may have to go to 100mcg-T3 or even higher
    Hi Jan, I find this interesting about the amount of T3 needed.

    Personally, I am taking 40-50mcg T3 per day. I take it in 10mcg doses, sublingually. My T3 is just slightly above normal range on my latest blodwoork, on this protocol. How can this be at such a low dose?
  12. Advanced Member
    LeanGuy's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  165 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Age
    40
    Posts
    812
    Rep Power
    488

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by billytk03z View Post
    I have been on 50mcg of t3 with no bad feelings or hyper symptoms for the past 2 days.... I will bump up to 75mcg starting tommorrow.....
    wow you are starting high and moving fast... most docs will tell you to change your dose after a couple weeks not a couple days... going hyper is no fun
  13. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    ok finally got my blood work back from the doc.... I had been on 20mg cortisol per day for about a month and 50mcg t3 per day for about a week before I got my blood work drawn.... These tests are from Labcorp...

    Tsh- 1.16 (Nov 09 was 2.36)

    T4- 8.4 (4.5-12.0)

    T3- 151 (71-180)

    revT3- 281 (90-350)

    PM cortisol- 8.1 (2.3-19.4)

    ***now keep in mind that I was using cortisol 20mg pr day for about a month and T3 @ 50mcg pr day for a week prior to/ and when getting blood drawn.... so i am sure it might of had an effect on lowering my TSH since Nov 09 blood test as well as possibly lowering my rT3 and highering my T3....

    any thoughts... is my reverse T3 still high?
  14. New Member
    punxweb's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    227
    Rep Power
    181

    Reputation

    Yeah, you want RT3 under 100. T4 is still high. It will take time. Dont think you can test cortisol while on HC. Not sure on that one, but have heard it before.
  15. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    Yeah, you want RT3 under 100. T4 is still high. It will take time. Dont think you can test cortisol while on HC. Not sure on that one, but have heard it before.
    What ideal ranges am I looking for in regards to T4, T3 and rT3?
  16. New Member
    punxweb's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    227
    Rep Power
    181

    Reputation

    T4 at the low end or under reference range. T3 and FT3 at the upper or a little over reference range. RT3 around 100.
  17. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    Obviously I should continue T3 therapy but should I increase from 75mcg up to 100mcg per day? Also should I continue with the the Hydrocortisone @20mg per day too?

    my temps are still between 96.2-97.9....
  18. New Member
    punxweb's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    227
    Rep Power
    181

    Reputation

    Changing your meds is trial and error. I have read that some people have gone up to 150mcg per day. You have to go by blood work and how you feel. I would not discontinue the HC. If and when you do, you need to do a slow, gradual taper.
  19. New Member
    billytk03z's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    62

    Reputation

    Update on progress after 1 1/2 months on hc @ 20mg/day and 1 month of T3 (currently @ 75mcg/day)....

    first amazingly, I have not gotten hypoglycemic in over a month.. I used to experience bad bouts of hypoglycemia at least once per day either before or after a meal and always immediately after I drank a cup of coffee or had anything with caffeine.. Now I when I drink a cup of coffee I dont get hypoglycemic and the energy/well being feeling I get after I drink my coffee has helped with my workouts. Also, I always used to wake up in the morning with pounding headaches and I have not had a headache in over a month. I used to get migraine headaches at least once a week for as long as i can remember and I have had only 1 migraine headache in the past 1 1/2 months.

    Second, I am almost able to sleep the entire night without waking.. In the past I have not gotten a good nights sleep in I dont know how long I can remember. I used to constantly wake up at least 3 or 4 times a night in a sweat and never able to get back to sleep... this situation has not resolved but it is getting noticeably better.

    Third, In the past 6 months to a year I had started to experience major hair shedding... I have no recession, no balding, and still have a full head of hair but just experiencing hair shedding as in hypothyroid sufferer pattern. As of now, the shedding is still happening but not as fast as before. I figure it will take a good 6 moths or so to see any progress or benefits.. So keeping fingers crossed..

    fourth, My libido is still on the low. I am able to perform and still wake with morning wood but my desire is in the toilet. My latest blood test as of last week revealed that my Testosterone (total) is 480 (250-850)*, free test 10.8 (8.7-25) **LOW... so i suspect my sex drive is due to the low free test... E2 is 22 (0-54)

    Does high rT3 affect libido and is it a possible cause of low free test...? what can I do to improve my free Test levels?

    ****one thing that has not improved at all is that Im always Irritable and tempermental..... I get frustrated very easily and I am short tempered (This is not me! Im not like this! I was never like this!!!) I feel so bad cuz I am very snappy and quick tongued with my wife and others.. I yell at my 3 dogs for stupid things.. I hate who i have become.... What is causing this?
  20. New Member
    rohit456's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    35

    Reputation

    Hi JanSz,

    I need you help to determine my proper course of action in my treatment. First give you some details on my symptoms/issues.
    I have been suffering from Hypothyroid symptoms since 5 years . After multiple doctor changed , i finally found a doctor who tested my RT3 level, initially he first wanted t fix my B12 , Iron and Vitamin D low levels. Now that all my vitamin level are low but i still have High RT3 , my ratio of FT3/RT3 is 9.6 rather above 20. Here are my results

    FT3 = 3.8
    RT3 = 394
    TT4 = 9.4
    TSH 1.10
    Ferritin = 174
    Vitamin D = 55
    B12 = 585

    My doctor now started 15 mcg of Cytomel along with 88mcg of Levoxyl which i have been taking for last 2 years. I was reading all over the place to reduce RT3 i need to completely stop T4 , but my doctor said i have to add T3 rather stop the T4.
    Please advice what would be my plan to reduce my RT3.
    My symptoms are .
    Brain fog
    Joint and Muscles pain
    Low sex drive /erection
    Fatigue
    low motivation.

    PLease help.
  21. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Identify the source of the stress and deal with it there instead of manipulating thyroid . You will cause more issues but by doing so. Been there did it done it.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  22. New Member
    funick972's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    27
    Rep Power
    89

    Reputation

    Stop looking at low or high hormones as an issue.It is not the cause but the markers of a specific biochemical reaction going on in your body.High Rt3 is seen in inflammation.Its a marker for high stress (biological and biochemical).

    Guys for christ sakes, most of y'all don't have thyroid issues but "thyroid hormones conversion issues" affected by a specific mechanism.Find this mechanism and correct it.You can do it with a functional medicine expert.Go on the institute for functional medicine website.

    Stop manipulating your hormones and do proper evaluation to see whats happening in your system:
    Crp, cytokines, prolactin, serum iga, estrogen etc......Then find a functional medicine doctor for interpretion.
  23. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Hormones imbalances are.just an expression of the cause. When are.drs going to wake up and realize this?
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  24. New Member
    shbg82's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  175 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    47
    Rep Power
    60

    Reputation

    My personal experience with T3 only was not very good. 80mcg of T3 only pushed my cortisol 20% above maximum levels, dropped my DHEA to less than 10% of range, and pushed my SHBG WAY WAy up. T3 killed my FT, E2, DHT, and I dropped 20lbs of muscle and bone in 8 months.

    I opine with this article
    tiredthyroid.com/rt3.html
  25. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by shbg82 View Post
    My personal experience with T3 only was not very good. 80mcg of T3 only pushed my cortisol 20% above maximum levels, dropped my DHEA to less than 10% of range, and pushed my SHBG WAY WAy up. T3 killed my FT, E2, DHT, and I dropped 20lbs of muscle and bone in 8 months.

    I opine with this article
    tiredthyroid.com/rt3.html
    I am now off T-3 and just using 3.5 grains NP thyroid and doing great. In next 6 months I am looking to get off thyroid meds completely. SHBG rising is due to thyroid meds, It may take over a year to come down, and people who do not think danazol has any purpose well think again. For people on thyroid who have this issue it may be necessary to over ride the SHBG increase. When I am dialed in at 16-20 e2 with 20-25 SHBG. I am popping boners non stop with good refractory time to. My SHBG is being driven up by inflamation in GI tract and liver. I am finally got the GI under control after months of researching the pieces are finally connecting. Liver will be rebalanced once the GI tract gets stable (4-6 months on the average), after 2 weeks bowel have returned to normal after 6 years of rabbit pebbles now kicking out lincoln logs.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  26. New Member
    funick972's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    27
    Rep Power
    89

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I am now off T-3 and just using 3.5 grains NP thyroid and doing great. In next 6 months I am looking to get off thyroid meds completely. SHBG rising is due to thyroid meds, It may take over a year to come down, and people who do not think danazol has any purpose well think again. For people on thyroid who have this issue it may be necessary to over ride the SHBG increase. When I am dialed in at 16-20 e2 with 20-25 SHBG. I am popping boners non stop with good refractory time to. My SHBG is being driven up by inflamation in GI tract and liver. I am finally got the GI under control after months of researching the pieces are finally connecting. Liver will be rebalanced once the GI tract gets stable (4-6 months on the average), after 2 weeks bowel have returned to normal after 6 years of rabbit pebbles now kicking out lincoln logs.
    If elimination diet can heal autism it can heal thyroid also (i mean the hormonal system)
  27. Elite Member
    The Matrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,033
    Rep Power
    7698

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by funick972 View Post
    If elimination diet can heal autism it can heal thyroid also (i mean the hormonal system)
    Agreed!! people are so off the marker when it comes to health its disturbing. Since working with other physcians they are finally starting to see the light when dealing with patients by looking at it exoteric vs esoterically. Cause vs symptoms approach. I am finally making huge head way in the medical community. Need to get more Dr's on board, just going to be a matter of time before they catch on to direction medicine is going. Individualized medicine is the waive of the future where it is one stop shopping vs just dealing with one area (hormones only). Its the integration of the immune, neurological, hormones, structural, environment, psychological as well as lifestyles imbalances which will be the future patient model,

    Cure is a strong word. Help relieve or improve symptoms for better quality of life is more suspectible. I never want to come of "curing" a person you are setting your self up for major legal issues. Getting a person well or improving quality of life is more politically correct.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. complex problem, need real smart mind to help
    By markandy75 in forum IGF-1/GH
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-27-2008, 08:26 AM
  2. Is Roid Rage a real problem??
    By Fun2Train in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 02-03-2007, 05:08 PM
  3. Real Discussion: AAS and shrinking penile syndrome:
    By motiv8er in forum General Chat
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 02-20-2006, 08:43 PM
  4. Cy Wilson's view on M 1-T
    By prolangtum in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 01-08-2005, 06:32 PM
  5. Legit Nizoral? Also Legit Proscar/Propecia?
    By CEDeoudes59 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-22-2003, 11:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in