0 sperm count/ TRT

trytestim

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After doing searches on this site and reading all the material on fertility and TRT, I had a sperm count lab. My results are none! Sadly, I never knew that would be the ultimate result until about 3 weeks ago. I have been on TRT for 1 year next month. 2 years ago I had a sperm count and it was normal.

When I originally went to my general practitioner to check my T levels he sayed, "you will never have a baby with those levels." We have been trying to conceive for 2 years. So he prescribed TRT. Based on what he sayed, I always assumed if my sperm count was normal then, it would be that much better with normal T. How uninformed I was! How ignorant the doc was.

He never checked for the balance of all hormones, only Total T. And because of the positive way I've felt, I put off going to a specialist until now. Now I must come off TRT until this is figured out. That means, on top of infertility, I'm looking at a major decrease in well being and I run the risk of a Urologist or Endo that could care less about male T levels. What to do?

I am getting a referral to a local Urologist in Macon, GA. Does anyone recommend anything I should do or a certain doc to see? I may be permanently infertile now!
 
DAdams91982

DAdams91982

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After doing searches on this site and reading all the material on fertility and TRT, I had a sperm count lab. My results are none! Sadly, I never knew that would be the ultimate result until about 3 weeks ago. I have been on TRT for 1 year next month. 2 years ago I had a sperm count and it was normal.

When I originally went to my general practitioner to check my T levels he sayed, "you will never have a baby with those levels." We have been trying to conceive for 2 years. So he prescribed TRT. Based on what he sayed, I always assumed if my sperm count was normal then, it would be that much better with normal T. How uninformed I was! How ignorant the doc was.

He never checked for the balance of all hormones, only Total T. And because of the positive way I've felt, I put off going to a specialist until now. Now I must come off TRT until this is figured out. That means, on top of infertility, I'm looking at a major decrease in well being and I run the risk of a Urologist or Endo that could care less about male T levels. What to do?

I am getting a referral to a local Urologist in Macon, GA. Does anyone recommend anything I should do or a certain doc to see? I may be permanently infertile now!
Don't jump the gun just yet. There are plenty of great fertility clinics out that can assist you with your problem. I am assuming your LH/FSH is in the tank.

Do you have your bloodwork to post up? The total workup, not just T.

TRT does not mean infertility (As some do seem to think), but balance is key, and keeping from going above the body's natural levels.
 
DAdams91982

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Talk to him about HCG....
Actually HMG might be a better option, but really need to see the numbers. But overall a clinic specifically designed to deal with infertility will be the best bet.
 
B5150

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You do not need to come off of T to achieve increased sperm count. You sperm count is down because your LH/FSH are low to zero because of the exogenous testosterone you are taking.

The adminstration of hCG can stimulate your LH/FSH which can stimulate the production of sperm.

Urologists and endocrinologists are not always the best route.
 

trytestim

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What kind of doc is the best to see?
 

Philec48

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HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropin) is an analogue of FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone). You might be able to regain fertility using this along with TRT.
 

89coupe

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I had the same problem with zero sperm count from TRT. I was taken off of TRT and put on clomid 3 x a week and Arimidex 1mg a day It took a few months but sperm count got in to normal levels and my wife is 5 months pregnant and I'm back on TRT.
 

trytestim

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Wow 89coupe,

How did you feel throughout the course of getting back your count? Are you to continue this treatment as your HRT or is it temporary to get sperm count back up? If so, do you go back to TRT? My biggest fear is the emotional rollercoaster of hormonal changes. I am willing to undergo it but would like to minimize it.
Did you doc even mention HCG or HMG? I'm surprised this topic does not get a lot of feedback. Thanks for the reply
 

89coupe

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I was tired more then anything. The high dose of Arimidex along with the clomid got my total T level up to 480 which is not great but a hell of a lot better then what it was before I started TRT(221). Yes I am back on my TRT and only take 1mg of Arimidex a week which I have done the sense I started TRT and have stopped the clomid altogether. HCG was a option but my Doc didn't think it was necessary.
 
MAxximal

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You do not need to come off of T to achieve increased sperm count. You sperm count is down because your LH/FSH are low to zero because of the exogenous testosterone you are taking.

The adminstration of hCG can stimulate your LH/FSH which can stimulate the production of sperm.

Urologists and endocrinologists are not always the best route.
Correct!
 
MAxximal

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Via suppression of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, administration of exogenous androgens results in suppression of spermatogenesis. In many cases, this will lead to complete azoospermia. Indeed, administration of testosterone as a contraceptive agent has been proven to be effective in recent multi-center studies (Lancet 336:955, 1993). Therefore, in all men who are considering treatment of hypogonadism, and in whom fertility is a concern, exogenous androgens must not be given.

By by Dana Ohl, M.D. Associate Professor of Surgery University of Michigan
 
MAxximal

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Potential Adverse Effects of Androgen Therapy
By by Dana Ohl, M.D. Associate Professor of Surgery University of Michigan

Hepatotoxidty


As mentioned above, the oral, alkylated forms of testosterone can create a situation of liver toxicity (Semin Liver Dis 7:230, 1987; Liver 42:73, 1992). Since I believe that these oral agents should never be given, this problem can in general be circumvented. There is little evidence that other methods of administration cause liver dysfunction, but I think it is prudent that in men on testosterone therapy, liver function tests be performed at approximately six month intervals.

Water retention

Androgen therapy can cause water retention, with the fear of exacerbation of hypertension or inducing or worsening congestive heart failure in older men undergoing such therapy. Weight gain thought to be due to water retention has been demonstrated ( J Clin Endocrinol Metab 75:1092, 1992; JAm Geratr Soc 41:149, 1993), but no study has shown clinically significant pathology due to this retention.

Erythropoiesis

Androgens cause an increase in hematocrit. Two~studies showed a rise in hematocrit between 3.6 and 7.0% in older men receiving T supplementation (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 75:1092, 1992; J Am Ceratr Soc 41:149, 1993). Typically this rise in hematocrit, although measurable, is not clinically significant. Since many older men are also anemic prior to testosterone therapy due to their hypogonadism and/or aging/nutritional changes, the rise in hematocrit may be beneficial.

Sleep apnea

Sleep apnea may be worsened in men on testosterone therapy (Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 22:713, 1985). This may be due to changes in tissue surrounding the posterior pharynx. Therefore, if there is a clinical history of sleep apnea in a man considered for T therapy, this should be investigated and treated prior to institution of therapy.

Changes in plasma lipoproteins

This area is perhaps one of the more controversial areas in testosterone replacement therapy. The differences in incidence of atherosclerotic vessel disease between men and women has been ascribed to hormonal differences. Since HDL levels begin to drop in males coincident with the rise of testosterone seen at puberty, the evidence has been compelling. However, a large review of studies that attempted to compare HDL levels with circulating T levels failed to reach. the conclusion that T level is correlated with lower HDL (Diabetes Metab 21:156, 1995). In fact, most of the evidence shows that higher endogenous T levels are associated with a higher HDL, and presumably a lower cardiovascular risk.

This data has been interpreted by some clinicians to indicate that testosterone replacement therapy will cause beneficial changes in HDL. However, when one looks at multiple studies regarding replacing testosterone- in- men who are hypogonadal, a mix of results are seen. Administration of alkylated testosterone derivatives causes a substantial reduction in HDL-C (JAMA 261:1165, 1989). This further adds to the recommendation that these drugs should not be given. When parenteral T esters are administered in weekly 100 mg injections, no change is generally seen, but there is a significant decline in HDL when 200 mg injections are given every 2 weeks (Metabolism 42:446, 1993; Ann Intern Med 116:967, 1992; JAMA 261:1165, 1989). Data on patch therapy is still being generated.

I think it is safe to say that one should view this issue with caution. It would be prudent to get a fasting cholesterol/HDL profile on all hypogonadal men in whom androgen replacement therapy is being suggested and then another profile at three months to look for these potentially unfavorable changes.

Prostatic changes

It is clear that without androgens present, prostatic pathology does not develop. Prostatic cancer and benign prostatic hyperplasia never develops in eunuchs. Prostatic diseases represent very clinically significant problems in the elderly and the effect of androgen replacement therapy on the prostate needs to be very carefully considered.
The prostate increases in size during androgen replacement therapy in older men (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 75:1092, 1992). Therefore, symptomatic prostatism may potentially become worse with androgen therapy. Because of this one needs to take a careful voiding history prior to initiation of therapy to uncover such problems.
Prostate cancer has never been proven to be associated with androgen replacement therapy. While there are scattered case reports of development of prostate cancer while on such therapy it is commonly accepted that prostatic cancer which is present (and may be occult when considering androgen replacement therapy) will probably be accelerated by elevation of the serum androgens. In this way an occult prostatic cancer may become apparent during therapy. Surveillance for prostate cancer development and growth is essential during therapy.

Infertility

Via suppression of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, administration of exogenous androgens results in suppression of spermatogenesis. In many cases, this will lead to complete azoospermia. Indeed, administration of testosterone as a contraceptive agent has been proven to be effective in recent multi-center studies (Lancet 336:955, 1993). Therefore, in all men who are considering treatment of hypogonadism, and in whom fertility is a concern, exogenous androgens must not be given.
 
The Matrix

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I replied to this on another forum
1) if you aint going to get a chick pregenent they do not worry about it
2) HCG would help
3) last resorrt HMG will kick your swimmers back on.
 
EasyEJL

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You do not need to come off of T to achieve increased sperm count. You sperm count is down because your LH/FSH are low to zero because of the exogenous testosterone you are taking.

The adminstration of hCG can stimulate your LH/FSH which can stimulate the production of sperm.

Urologists and endocrinologists are not always the best route.
actually its funny, I went to a urologist for pre-vasectomy consultation and I had my trt protocol listed on medications taken. He asked "Why are you getting a vasectomy if you are taking hcg" assuming it was for fertility. So I ended up with a conversation about the relative consensus among the cutting edge HRT specialists about use of hcg in TRT regardless of fertility questions.
 

six20aus

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89coupe, how long had you been on TRT before you came off it and was able to conceive with your wife ??

I have been on TRT for 5 years now and my soon to be second wife and I would like (if possible) to have a baby with me... We know it might be impossible but I'm curious as to what other people have managed. I am in Australia and Drs here do not prescribe HCG so for me to come off I think it would be a nightmare with not much chance of success.
 

89coupe

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I was on HRT for about 2 years when I came off. My Doc had me taking 50mg of clomid 3 times a week and 1mg of arimidex every day. It will take around 72 days from the time that all the test that your taking is out of your system. I was on pellets instead of injection which are put in every 3 months so it took a little over 6 months for me and I was tired but it was worth it. Im back on my pellets now and feeling good.
 
gonein60

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After doing searches on this site and reading all the material on fertility and TRT, I had a sperm count lab. My results are none! Sadly, I never knew that would be the ultimate result until about 3 weeks ago. I have been on TRT for 1 year next month. 2 years ago I had a sperm count and it was normal.

When I originally went to my general practitioner to check my T levels he sayed, "you will never have a baby with those levels." We have been trying to conceive for 2 years. So he prescribed TRT. Based on what he sayed, I always assumed if my sperm count was normal then, it would be that much better with normal T. How uninformed I was! How ignorant the doc was.

He never checked for the balance of all hormones, only Total T. And because of the positive way I've felt, I put off going to a specialist until now. Now I must come off TRT until this is figured out. That means, on top of infertility, I'm looking at a major decrease in well being and I run the risk of a Urologist or Endo that could care less about male T levels. What to do?

I am getting a referral to a local Urologist in Macon, GA. Does anyone recommend anything I should do or a certain doc to see? I may be permanently infertile now!
Clomiphene Citrate may solve your problem. I had a buddy who had a low sperm count, took this stuff n got his wife pregnant like that.
 
corndog

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I had a vesectom refersal and a biopsy taken from my testicles to check for sperm. I had no active sperm. I had been on trt for a few years. Uro took me off test-e and put me on 50mg clomid a day. After 60 days I had another biopsy. I had some active sperm but not allot. Uro said it only takes 1 so stay possitive. After a vas revesal it usually take 1.5-2 years to get preg and that is with normal sperm. Anyway...........8 months after my reversal and clomid for 8 months I have a baby on the way. Everyone on this site pretty much told me to change to hcg. that it was better. anyway my uro didnt agree and i guess he was right. Baby is due next week 3/6. keep possitive and try not to beleive eveything u read here.
 
DAdams91982

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I had a vesectom refersal and a biopsy taken from my testicles to check for sperm. I had no active sperm. I had been on trt for a few years. Uro took me off test-e and put me on 50mg clomid a day. After 60 days I had another biopsy. I had some active sperm but not allot. Uro said it only takes 1 so stay possitive. After a vas revesal it usually take 1.5-2 years to get preg and that is with normal sperm. Anyway...........8 months after my reversal and clomid for 8 months I have a baby on the way. Everyone on this site pretty much told me to change to hcg. that it was better. anyway my uro didnt agree and i guess he was right. Baby is due next week 3/6. keep possitive and try not to beleive eveything u read here.
So you went to a Uro for fertility... no wonder he said clomid. A endo focused in fertility is much better suited and can guarantee their protocol would have been much different. Your Uro took you off TRT completely, which A) I am sure made you feel like **** (Assuming you really needed TRT). and B) was unnecessary to fertility.

Congrats to you for sure. But your journey was not the ideal route.
 
EasyEJL

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Congrats to you for sure. But your journey was not the ideal route.
Its like with LOTS of bodybuilding topics on diet, workout routines, etc. Just because a method seemed to work doesn't mean its what would have worked best, or easiest, or fastest. People confuse "effective" with "optimal" :D
 

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Well said, EasyEJL! Knowledge is power. Most people over-train, stressing their adrenals, and on top of that under eat, or eat the wrong thing.s No wonder they don't see the results they want.

Its like with LOTS of bodybuilding topics on diet, workout routines, etc. Just because a method seemed to work doesn't mean its what would have worked best, or easiest, or fastest. People confuse "effective" with "optimal" :D
 

trytestim

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UPDATE: Been off of TRT for 9 months and on Clomid. Finally got my sperm count back. Raised my T levels up to 450. LH in normal range. Then came off and after a month, all my levels were at bottom of chart.

My plan is now to follow Dr Crisler's advice with one 2 HCG shots followed by 1 T shot per week. Hopefully this will keep my sperm happy.

My only question is: When Dr. Crisler says testicles remain functional when on this protocol, he never mentions fertility. I have read several things saying that HCG only keeps the testicles large but HMG is required for sperm count due to FSH stimulation. Any words?
 

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I think you are right to have some concern. As you know HCG helps your boys stay active so that when the time comes, they are able to respond to LH. However HCG does nothing for your FSH (from what I understand), so if you FSH is low your testes won't commence production of sperm, even though they should be ABLE to, thanks to previously taking HCG to keep them running. If your FSH levels are fine (which I don't think is common when your LH levels are low), then there shouldn't be a problem.

I am in the same situation as you, so I am going to have more bloodwork done to check my FSH levels. If they are ok I would assume I could start my TRT with low doses of HCG. If they are not, then I believe HMG would have to come into play (although I'm not sure if this needs to be taken throughout TRT therapy, or just prior to trying to have kids).
 

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