three questions about trt primary
- 01-13-2010, 03:50 AM
three questions about trt primary
Hey guys im still confused about three things, which a doctor hasnt been able to anwser me correctly, any input will be greatly appreciated.
1: Can a primary on TRT achieve TT levels of 800-900??
2: a primary on TRT, what can they except from there sex life? will it be normal?
3: i am 21 years old, and from the way things look like i think TRT is gonna be my option, from here on out from what i understand once i start im going to have to be on this for life, isnt TRT in the future going to cause me alot of health problems?
- 01-13-2010, 07:53 AM
you shouldnt worry especially if you are under medical supervision as you will be monitored throughout the treatment At various stages , you should get a full blood count;liver function test; psa (this measures the size of your prostate) so relax about it.
search on google for the benefits of testosterone and remember you will only be getting what your body cannot make. It will not be a bodybuilding dose and your body will be able to cope with it just as if it was being produced naturally
01-13-2010, 11:50 AM
01-13-2010, 04:43 PM
your testicles have been asked to produce testosterone (LH>0 , FSH>0)
but they did not responded.
That often means that you will not make a sperm either.
At 21yo that decision should not be made lithely.
Make sure that you tested at least
If you are primary, holding to testicles is mostly cosmetical.
But if you are not clear about Primary/secondary
it is very important to not put your testicles under any additional stress.
When starting TRT very often testosterone alone is used.
That causes testicles to shrink, that is a big stress.
One should always start any type of TRT with
250iu-HCG shots EOD, Every Other Day
That will keep your testicles protected.
When supplying external testosterone, it can be in form of shots or transdermal.
Decission about transdermal vs injectable should not be made based on doctor or patient (superficial) preferences.
Status of 5aR should be checked.
Level of DHT should be checked.
You are looking for a way of keeping your DHT in upper 1/4 range and not higher.
Some people have very low DHT, they benefit from transdermal delivery.
Other must use injections (like it or not).
Injections should be made just as frequently as one would put on test-gel.
No real difference there.
Compromising to EOD schedule also works.
Any less frequent injection schedule is counter productive.
Do not be preoccupied with TotalTest levels during TRT.
The object of TRT is to get to the desirable levels of
Total Testosterone is only a means to happy end.
Because of the above the desirable TotalTestosterone levels will depend on your
levels (and practically nothing else.
There is all kind of tests that laboratories made available (just to confuse doctors and patients).
Your best bet is to (skip any fancy tests, they are nothing but trouble), always check:
then look at this chart:
and figure your situation.
Assume that on that chart you want
There is more.
01-13-2010, 08:43 PM
Hey thanks alot for the responses guys, another thing thats really freaking me out, ive been reading places online that once your on TRT for a long time it shuts down your bodys own natural testosterone then TRT stops working? whats the story with this?
01-13-2010, 09:29 PM
01-14-2010, 05:52 AM
01-14-2010, 07:49 AM
I'm primary, on testosterone injections + hcg + arimidex. Works great, feel like i'm 17 again.
01-14-2010, 10:55 PM
01-15-2010, 08:16 AM
well, i'm 42, been on less than a year, and don't recall exactly my TT and free, but they were both at high end of scale
01-15-2010, 12:39 PM
01-15-2010, 12:42 PM
AFAIK, there is no test for 5aR deficiencies...unless I'm wrong?
Typically speaking, males with 5aR deficiencies (medically acknowledgable deficiency) - have female characteristics and have almost no activity with this enzyme, which is a true deficiency. I wish there was a way to test for slight deficiency or issues, or to know what can cause them.
01-15-2010, 04:02 PM
01-15-2010, 04:23 PM
I would look into it if I were you.. if you were able to raise your levels with the equivalent to a SERM (sustain alpha, etc) and then they dropped after, then it appears you are able to stimulate the boys
01-15-2010, 04:38 PM
01-15-2010, 04:40 PM
Anyone test your LH and FSH before going on TRT? If not, then it may be painful to find out now (you would have to stop TRT for a time).
01-15-2010, 04:41 PM
01-15-2010, 04:49 PM
If they were below the bottom of the scale with low testosterone, that would suggest secondary. Your pituitary for some reason doesn't want to send out the signal. Ever have a head injury? Have you had an MRI to check for a tumor?
01-15-2010, 04:50 PM
hmm no to either of those. Basically the doctor said it was a combination of my alcoholism + obesity that probably caused it
01-15-2010, 09:24 PM
ive been reading on alot of forums like elitefitness, and they swear that once you start TRT you will feel good for a few years then once your natural testosterone gets shutdown, youll feel even worst then you first did, is this true? right not my testosterone reading is anywhere from 300-350
01-15-2010, 09:48 PM
24hr-urine Rhein analysis
then figure out two ratios:
Testosterone---->5aR---->Etiocholanolone (ET) (ET/AN)--->(0.6---1.0---1.9)men
Cortisol (F)---->5bR----->Tetrahydrocortisol (THF)
Cortisol (F)---->5aR----->Allo-Tetrahydrocortisol (5a-THF) (5a-THF)/(THF)---->(0.60---0.8---1.3)men
You may want to check my post #16 here
01-15-2010, 10:17 PM
Shutdown happens the first few days of exogonous hormone use, not years later. TRT done right will keep you feeling young.
Addressing the original post, that range is achievable, and Its more risky for your health not doing trt when you are hypogonadal.
01-16-2010, 05:02 AM
01-16-2010, 07:17 AM
ok so is it worth for me to get on TRT? i feel like crap and my morning testosterone is aorund 300-350, im sure during the day it drops even more, i know im repeating the same question again, but im just so dam scared about the whole thing, on some forums guys are saying they were on it for a few years, then it stopped working a few years later because there natural testosterone diminshed, for example if someone was 300 ng/dl right , TRT + 300 ng/dl would be very good, but after a while whatever natural testosterone is left (lets say in my case 300ng/dl) that will be gone and it will only be the testosterone of TRT which same people argue that its not enough test, they say the reason people starting TRT feel very good or the first few months because whatever low testosterone you have left adds on to the TRT which makes it great, but once only the TRT works some people feel like **** and regret getting on it , am i confused somewhere with this? or is this how it works?
01-16-2010, 08:11 AM
bone loss can occur which leads to osteoporosis;arthritis is common in men with low levels of test .
so theres a lot going for it.
i dont understand why some feel like s**t on trt because you are only getting what the body cannot make.if it was produced naturally would those same people feel the same? i doubt it.
receiving testosterone from an external source may cause anxiety unless you a bodybuilder and prepared to inject large doses of test they dont have that problem.
loss of natural test will not cause the treatment to stop working .you will get shut down and what you have produced will cease over time.However you will be receiving or should be , enough to put you back in the reference range at least half way , i would have thought. The level of test will build up over time and the aim is to keep a constant level in your blood , but initially you may experience peaks and troughs.your doc should measure the levels shortly after your injection and just prior to your next ,This will enable him to get the right frequency for your injection.
Natural testosterone is produced in the body in pulses throughout the day , the largest pulse being during sleep , the levels of natural test are always higher in the morning.,Unfortunately that cannot be reproduced when given externally.
i would go for it and try to put your concerns behind you. Have you discussed these with your doctor?
01-16-2010, 08:13 AM
01-16-2010, 09:19 AM
ok i kinda got a better understanding of it now but still , if your natural test works its way down to 0 on trt can one on trt still get around 800 ng/dl on test cyp? and you also mention how those guys are taking 3-4 times what they should be, well since im only 21 through the years im probly going to get immuned to a certain dosage and will need to up the dosage, eventually ill hit a point where the doctors cant up the dosage anymore itll be at its max, therefor i'll hit a really big problem in life, sorry not trying to be negative with this whole thing, just that if im going to be starting trt at 21 for life i really need to understand what im getting myself into.
01-16-2010, 12:52 PM
On TRT it's certainly possible to reach 800 ng/dl. It's all about dosing. Those that take too much go much higher than this, and that's not a good thing to do.
One can come close to mimicking the body's natural pulsing of testosterone by applying testosterone gel once every morning. Some do this rather than injections. Concerns with this is to make sure that DHT doesn't get too high. If the % of T in the gel is low, in order to get enough T, a larger area of skin is needed. This is when more 5-ARD involvement occurs converting T to DHT.
On the other hand, with a much higher % of T in the gel, there could be absorption issues. It may be hard to find the sweet spot, especially if hypothyroid, which also adversely affects absorption through the skin.
Finally, with using gel one must be careful not to get it on women and children.
01-16-2010, 01:07 PM
Akiravp82, you said your morning T is 300-350. Have you ever had a complete set of labs run? If you like, provide more information for us in order to help us give you more info. Such as: your height, weight, body mass, strength, overall health, diet, sleep patterns, smoking or drinking, ever cycle steroids, etc...
It could be that getting in shape, eating right, sleeping right (sleep apnea will lower T), quitting smoking and heavy drinking, and getting proper amount of supplements could get your T at a level that makes you feel better. Then you wouldn't have all these worries about TRT.
Have your serum zinc tested. Testicles need zinc big time to make T. Also, most people are deficient in vitamin D. This will seriously affect overall health. Get a serum test for 25-hydroxy, and if low take a good D3 supplement.
01-16-2010, 01:08 PM
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