My Predicament...Need Some Advice

[tyler4]

Hey guys, I thouht I would post this here to see if I could get some feedback.

I'll give you a quick history of the past 8 months.

-March 09 - Did a cycle of The One from Applied Nutriceuticals. Good cycle, felt great, got strong and had a good PCT.

-July 09 - Had full bloodwork done (this was the first time I had a hormonal profile done). Here are the results.

SHBG 19 NMOL/L 7-49
DHEA 384 NG/DL 61-1636
Prolactin 5.2ng/ml 2.0-18.0
Progest 1.0ng/l <1.4
Estradiol 49 pg/ml 13-54 :thinking:

T4 Free . 85ng/dl .58-1.26
TSH .59uIU/ml .34-5.60
LH: 4.7mIU/ml 1.2-8.6
FSH: 1.5miU/ml 1.3-19.3


Testosterone 396ng/dl 175-781
Total Test 488ng/dl 250-1100
Test, Free % 2.04 1.5-2.20
Free Test 99.6pg/ml 35.0-155.

I was concerned about the high E since gyno was a problem for me since puberty but it has been removed.

-August/Sept 09 - I ran a Epi/P Plex bridge with a proper PCT and felt fine. During the last week of my cycle I had a saliva test ran. Test was 15 (35 being lower limit) and E was 1.8 (1.5 being lower limit)

-December 09 - Ran another saliva test while on Testopro. T was 35, right on the low limit and E was still 1.8.

So this was enough for me to see the doc again. He referred me to an Endo that I will see this week sometime.

I am 25 YO, highly active and involved in weight/fitness training. Clean diet (I know everyone says this but I do eat well, Grass fed beef, free range chicken, organic veggies, etc.) But I seem to make slower progress than most. I also seem to hold all my fat in the typical high E levels (chest, stomach)

My question is for a 25 yo w/ high Estrogen, what are (if any) the treatments for this. An E level of 49 isnt above range but with 20-29 being optimal, I am far away from that.

Thanks for any help guys.

 

[jinxie]

Hey guys, I thouht I would post this here to see if I could get some feedback.

I'll give you a quick history of the past 8 months.

-March 09 - Did a cycle of The One from Applied Nutriceuticals. Good cycle, felt great, got strong and had a good PCT.

-July 09 - Had full bloodwork done (this was the first time I had a hormonal profile done). Here are the results.

SHBG 19 NMOL/L 7-49
DHEA 384 NG/DL 61-1636
Prolactin 5.2ng/ml 2.0-18.0
Progest 1.0ng/l <1.4
Estradiol 49 pg/ml 13-54 :thinking:

T4 Free . 85ng/dl .58-1.26
TSH .59uIU/ml .34-5.60
LH: 4.7mIU/ml 1.2-8.6
FSH: 1.5miU/ml 1.3-19.3


Testosterone 396ng/dl 175-781
Total Test 488ng/dl 250-1100
Test, Free % 2.04 1.5-2.20
Free Test 99.6pg/ml 35.0-155.

I was concerned about the high E since gyno was a problem for me since puberty but it has been removed.

-August/Sept 09 - I ran a Epi/P Plex bridge with a proper PCT and felt fine. During the last week of my cycle I had a saliva test ran. Test was 15 (35 being lower limit) and E was 1.8 (1.5 being lower limit)

-December 09 - Ran another saliva test while on Testopro. T was 35, right on the low limit and E was still 1.8.

So this was enough for me to see the doc again. He referred me to an Endo that I will see this week sometime.

I am 25 YO, highly active and involved in weight/fitness training. Clean diet (I know everyone says this but I do eat well, Grass fed beef, free range chicken, organic veggies, etc.) But I seem to make slower progress than most. I also seem to hold all my fat in the typical high E levels (chest, stomach)

My question is for a 25 yo w/ high Estrogen, what are (if any) the treatments for this. An E level of 49 isnt above range but with 20-29 being optimal, I am far away from that.

Thanks for any help guys.

Stop taking the gear and get on .25 mgs of arimidex twice per week, which should get the E2 down to optimal level, and increase the T to a nice level.

 

[CrazyChemist]

Stop taking the gear and get on .25 mgs of arimidex twice per week, which should get the E2 down to optimal level, and increase the T to a nice level.

OP - if you have an endo advising you you should probably listen to his advice first and foremost. Assuming he gives you the typical doctor, "well it isnt out of range and you aren't really obese so don't worry about it" then an AI is exactly what I would recommend.

 

[tyler4]

Stop taking the gear and get on .25 mgs of arimidex twice per week, which should get the E2 down to optimal level, and increase the T to a nice level.

I was thinking Adex as well but I'll see what the endo says.

I'm not on anything now and don't plan to be for a while or at least until all this gets figured out.

Yes, I wil most definitely take the advice of the endo but I just thought I could get some feedback from the guys in this sub forum.

 

[jinxie]

I was thinking Adex as well but I'll see what the endo says.

I'm not on anything now and don't plan to be for a while or at least until all this gets figured out.

Yes, I wil most definitely take the advice of the endo but I just thought I could get some feedback from the guys in this sub forum.

If I had your numbers, an AI would be the only thing I would ever take. You are a perfect candidate for Adex monotherapy. You should be able to get your TT up to 700, and your FT and Bio-T should be very solid. With levels like that, I think you're too young to be messing with your natural ability to produce test unless you are competing, IMO. With that level, and supplements, you should be able to get quite big, if that's your objective.

Good luck. Hope it resolves quickly.

 

[tyler4]

If I had your numbers, an AI would be the only thing I would ever take. You are a perfect candidate for Adex monotherapy. You should be able to get your TT up to 700, and your FT and Bio-T should be very solid. With levels like that, I think you're too young to be messing with your natural ability to produce test unless you are competing, IMO. With that level, and supplements, you should be able to get quite big, if that's your objective.

Good luck. Hope it resolves quickly.

Thanks. I will let you know what the endo says. My goal is not to get huge, I just want to make better progress towards a better physique. It seems the best progress I have ever made was when I was on cycle.

 

[mikeyboyeee]

Thanks. I will let you know what the endo says. My goal is not to get huge, I just want to make better progress towards a better physique. It seems the best progress I have ever made was when I was on cycle.

And it always will be.

That's why people go on gear

 

[tyler4]

And it always will be.

That's why people go on gear

True. But I guess what I meant was I think my T/E ratio is keeping me from making good natural gains as well.

 

[pmgamer18]

STOP doing steroids your Estradiol levels for your SHBG is very high men with a lower SHBG need to keep there Estradiol lower. I am on TRT and my SHBG is 19 I keep my Estradiol at 15 pg/ml most do will at 20 pg/ml with a mid range SHBG.

Now I have been helping men with low T for yrs and worked at a number of Forums helped Dr. John at www.allthingsmale.com start his forum.

You can't test male sex hormones with Saliva labs they are not any good I will not even talk about them anymore it's a waste of my time. The only good test using Saliva is for cortisol a 4x's a day test.

You can get your T levels up some 200 to 300 points just getting your Estradiol levels down. In men the brain thinks high Estradiol levels are Testosterone it can't tell the diff. because Estradiol is made from T.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

In the following link it's for older men but men that do a cycle have this problem.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Do your self a favor don't do Steroids you can end up with Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism (ASIH)


Listen to Jinxie you might not need TRT just get your E2 levels down. And don't waste your time seeing an Endo they don't know SHI* about hormones. I have had low T for 27 yrs never see one good Endo and all the guys I talk to on the web and forums only have bad things to say about them. They don't even test for E2 or treat for it with Arimidex.

I would start at .5 mgs every other day until you get some strong night time and morning wood this would mean your at your best levels then cut back to .25 mgs.

High E2 levels will make you flat in the gym.

 

[tyler4]

STOP doing steroids your Estradiol levels for your SHBG is very high men with a lower SHBG need to keep there Estradiol lower. I am on TRT and my SHBG is 19 I keep my Estradiol at 15 pg/ml most do will at 20 pg/ml with a mid range SHBG.

Now I have been helping men with low T for yrs and worked at a number of Forums helped Dr. John at www.allthingsmale.com start his forum.

You can't test male sex hormones with Saliva labs they are not any good I will not even talk about them anymore it's a waste of my time. The only good test using Saliva is for cortisol a 4x's a day test.

You can get your T levels up some 200 to 300 points just getting your Estradiol levels down. In men the brain thinks high Estradiol levels are Testosterone it can't tell the diff. because Estradiol is made from T.

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

In the following link it's for older men but men that do a cycle have this problem.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

Do your self a favor don't do Steroids you can end up with Anabolic Steroid Induced Hypogonadism (ASIH)


Listen to Jinxie you might not need TRT just get your E2 levels down. And don't waste your time seeing an Endo they don't know SHI* about hormones. I have had low T for 27 yrs never see one good Endo and all the guys I talk to on the web and forums only have bad things to say about them. They don't even test for E2 or treat for it with Arimidex.

I would start at .5 mgs every other day until you get some strong night time and morning wood this would mean your at your best levels then cut back to .25 mgs.

High E2 levels will make you flat in the gym.

Well, I have an appointment with an endo so I'll at least see what he says. If I dont like it then I'll worry about it then. I would hope he'd be open to Arimidex therapy as I think that's my best bet.

I'm not into self diagnosing so if the endo isnt helpful, like I said, I'll look into another doc.

Thing is, I have a high libido and always have the ol' morning wood anyway. So that cant be a good gauge.

 

[pmgamer18]

Your lucky and maybe your E2 is not high now as it was on your blood test. Good luck with the Endo there are some good ones out there most are in the UK. I have seen 7 and not one was good they all told me I am Primary and my labs showed me to be Secondary I have a Pituitary problem do to a head injury.

If you can't get him to treat your E2 level if they are high get back to me I have been at this for yrs. I showed my Dr. how to treat high E2 levels at the time I used DIM and this is a supplement that works to get E2 levels down.

 

[tyler4]

Your lucky and maybe your E2 is not high now as it was on your blood test. Good luck with the Endo there are some good ones out there most are in the UK. I have seen 7 and not one was good they all told me I am Primary and my labs showed me to be Secondary I have a Pituitary problem do to a head injury.

If you can't get him to treat your E2 level if they are high get back to me I have been at this for yrs. I showed my Dr. how to treat high E2 levels at the time I used DIM and this is a supplement that works to get E2 levels down.

I appreciate the help man. I'll def let you know what he says. My fingers are crossed as I really want this to get taken care of.

I think is he has any sense at all he will treat the E2. I mean, minus the morning wood, I have other high E2 symptoms. I have had my gyno removed recently and want to ensure it wont return so If he turns his head to this I will be somewhat pissed.

 

[pmgamer18]

I hear yea younger men with higher levels of E2 will still get some involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep. But higher levels can give you a rash, feeling of Panic, feeling hot and sweating easy and some dam bad brain fog.

There is a sticky I put up at the top of the screen about Finding a New Male Hormone Dr. I tell men to call first before seeing one. Ask how many men do the treat for low hormones and do they test to see why one is low. Also do the test for high Estradiol in men and treat with Arimidex. If a man is Secondary meaning he has a pituitary problem his brain does not tell his testis to make T dose he use HCG this acts like the message from the pituitary. You will know if you found a good one.

If you keep having a problem and can't get to the bottom of it you can try Dr. John at www.allthingsmale.com he will work with your family Dr. over the phone to test and treat you you might need to use him to jump start your body again.

 

[tyler4]

I hear yea younger men with higher levels of E2 will still get some involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep. But higher levels can give you a rash, feeling of Panic, feeling hot and sweating easy and some dam bad brain fog.

There is a sticky I put up at the top of the screen about Finding a New Male Hormone Dr. I tell men to call first before seeing one. Ask how many men do the treat for low hormones and do they test to see why one is low. Also do the test for high Estradiol in men and treat with Arimidex. If a man is Secondary meaning he has a pituitary problem his brain does not tell his testis to make T dose he use HCG this acts like the message from the pituitary. You will know if you found a good one.

If you keep having a problem and can't get to the bottom of it you can try Dr. John at www.allthingsmale.com he will work with your family Dr. over the phone to test and treat you you might need to use him to jump start your body again.

I like the idea of having Dr. John help out. If my endo is a dud I will def go this route. Thanks again.

 

[tyler4]

So I ran across some research today that was very interesting. Apparently, high E2 levels can cause migraine headaches.

This makes absolute perfect sense since I have suffered from migraines since I was in the 4rth grade! I have had scans to ensure no brain tumor and tests to make sure what I was having were true migraines.But to this day I still get 2/3 per month.

Plus I have heard girls complain of migraines when on birth control (estrogen/progesterone)

If this is true the migraines along with my gyno are surely enough to make an endo get me on some Arimidex.

Has anyone else read this?

 

[jinxie]

So I ran across some research today that was very interesting. Apparently, high E2 levels can cause migraine headaches.

This makes absolute perfect sense since I have suffered from migraines since I was in the 4rth grade! I have had scans to ensure no brain tumor and tests to make sure what I was having were true migraines.But to this day I still get 2/3 per month.

Plus I have heard girls complain of migraines when on birth control (estrogen/progesterone)

If this is true the migraines along with my gyno are surely enough to make an endo get me on some Arimidex.

Has anyone else read this?

Sounds rational, though I don't know that an endo will be familiar with this. Make sure you look up all the high E2 sides, and emphasize to the endo all those from which you suffer, and that you know of other guys who have been prescribed them (from a health forum) with good results. You may wish to mention low-dose compounded arimidex, in case the endo is not aware of this, as he/she may be concerned about side-effects at standard 1 mg dose.

 

[tyler4]

Does anyone know if some good credible information I could bring to my endo that would help my case for Adex? I doubt he will be willing to listen to a 25 yo "kid."

I've done some researching and have a few things - but I thought you guys may know some things that could persuade him.

 

[jinxie]

Does anyone know if some good credible information I could bring to my endo that would help my case for Adex? I doubt he will be willing to listen to a 25 yo "kid."

I've done some researching and have a few things - but I thought you guys may know some things that could persuade him.

I am not aware of any such formal literature/studies, though I betcha a Pubmed search will yield some fruit.

Also, as I recall, Eugene Shippen's book has some supportive information, though it's related rather anecdotally. But still, it's something.

The easiest path may be to call area doctors, expressing that you have high estradiol/estrogen, and are wondering whether the doc is familar with aromatase inhibitor therapy, including with arimidex, in men. I did this when I decided I wanted to try hCG monotherapy over test.

Good luck.

 

[tyler4]

So now I cant get my regular Dr.'s office to return my call about my referral. And since I cant see an Endo w/o a referral, I'm stuck. This is getting frustrating.

 

[pmgamer18]

Here are some links I have.
http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm
In this link it's about older men but I see this a lot in younger men.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Aging-Male_01.htm
http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm
In this last one it talks about levels and everything about low t.
http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

 

[tyler4]

Here are some links I have.
http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm
In this link it's about older men but I see this a lot in younger men.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/nov2008_Dangers-of-Excess-Estrogen-in-the-Aging-Male_01.htm
http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm
In this last one it talks about levels and everything about low t.
http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

Thanks. These are very helpful.

 

[pmgamer18]

Not a problem this is what I do.

 

[tyler4]

Well, my first attempt in contacting a Dr. resulted in him tell me (via phone) that 49 was perfectly normal for a 25 year old male.:thinking:

I cant seem to understand how that's "normal" when I have all the symptoms of high E. And I mean come on, 49! Thats waayyy above optimal. Especially for an active/weight training 25 yo with low BF.

This looks like it could get frustrating. I'm contacting an Anti Aging doc in the morning.

 

[pmgamer18]

Yep he does not know what he is talking about he is going by the range from labs any man over 20 to 30 pg/ml is to high best at 20.

 

[tyler4]

Yep he does not know what he is talking about he is going by the range from labs any man over 20 to 30 pg/ml is to high best at 20.

Yea, thats what I was thinking. But it's hard to argue with them when they just assume they are right and you know nothing.

I sure hope this Anti Aging doc is of some help. I call her back in the morning.

 

[jinxie]

Yea, thats what I was thinking. But it's hard to argue with them when they just assume they are right and you know nothing.

I sure hope this Anti Aging doc is of some help. I call her back in the morning.

It wouldnt be alarming if you didn't have a history of gyno, current side effects that seeminly stem from high E2, and, importantly, relatively low TT. If you had TT of around 1000, your E2 would not seem so high. However, your SHBG would be higher too, and you would be much less likely to suffer from the sides.

Look at the sticky re how to find a doc, and use the search engine. There are quite a few docs in this list. Dr. Crisler can also consult with your doc, though you know better than us how receptive your doc would be to consulting with a non-endo osteopath re endocrine issues. (I mean no offense to Dr. Crisler, who is far more qualified than most endos; I only mention this because it sounds like your doc is rather conservative, rather than resolved to remedy your issues.)

 

[tyler4]

It wouldnt be alarming if you didn't have a history of gyno, current side effects that seeminly stem from high E2, and, importantly, relatively low TT. If you had TT of around 1000, your E2 would not seem so high. However, your SHBG would be higher too, and you would be much less likely to suffer from the sides.

Look at the sticky re how to find a doc, and use the search
engine. There are quite a few docs in this list. Dr. Crisler can also consult with your doc, though you know better than us

how receptive your doc would be to consulting with a non-
endo osteopath re endocrine issues. (I mean no offense to
Dr. Crisler, who is far more qualified than most endos; I only
mention this because it sounds like your doc is rather
conservative, rather than resolved to remedy your
issues.)

well my regular doc isn't the one who said 49 isn't too high. In fact mine says he does understand why I am concerned. But he felt more comftorable referrig me to an endo so that I could be treated.

This was just a doc that I called to see if he did adex therapy.

I tried all the things in the sticky but the links are all outdated. Execept one, and no search results were found in my area.

I think the anti aging doc I will call again in the morningmay be a good one. My fingers are crossed.

 

[tyler4]

I can't edit since I'm on my iPhone but I think my doc would be open to advice from someone in the field. At least I hope and would give it a go if I need to.

 

[pmgamer18]

I am sorry about the links it's the first of the yr. and I am finding a lot of my links don't work. keep at it you will get there if you want to try something to get E2 down. I have used DIM in the past but there is a lot of junk out there so if you try this get this brand it has indolplex in it and works great.
http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0
Take one table at dinner time for some men in gets there levels down in less then 2 weeks. You need to keep track of your wood if you lose it your levels are going down to low. So you just stop it until wood comes back then go back on it but cut the tab in half.
http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

Stop wasting your time with Dr.'s not up on this and see how it goes on DIM after all it's just a vegetable in a pill.

 

[tyler4]

I am sorry about the links it's the first of the yr. and I am finding a lot of my links don't work. keep at it you will get there if you want to try something to get E2 down. I have used DIM in the past but there is a lot of junk out there so if you try this get this brand it has indolplex in it and works great.
http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0
Take one table at dinner time for some men in gets there levels down in less then 2 weeks. You need to keep track of your wood if you lose it your levels are going down to low. So you just stop it until wood comes back then go back on it but cut the tab in half.
http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

Stop wasting your time with Dr.'s not up on this and see how it goes on DIM after all it's just a vegetable in a pill.

Well I found a local Anti Aging Doc and her nurse told me with my E2 levels and sides, I am def a candidate for treatment. She sounded very knowledgable and was helpful as well.

But it costs $550 for the first visit. Does anyone know how much blue cross/blue shield will re imburse me?

Any suggestions?

 

[pmgamer18]

I have BCBS and the Dr. I see has to be on a list and there is a co payment to see one. Call and ask about this they will tell you what you need to know. Sounds good but if your going to spend this much money to just get E2 down try DIM first.

Well I found a local Anti Aging Doc and her nurse told me with my E2 levels and sides, I am def a candidate for treatment. She sounded very knowledgable and was helpful as well.

But it costs $550 for the first visit. Does anyone know how much blue cross/blue shield will re imburse me?

Any suggestions?

 

[tyler4]

I have BCBS and the Dr. I see has to be on a list and there is a co payment to see one. Call and ask about this they will tell you what you need to know. Sounds good but if your going to spend this much money to just get E2 down try DIM first.

DIM sounds good but is it an effective aromatase inhibitor? I need my E2 down yes, but my problem is too much T aromatizing to E (as you know)

So would DIM be effective in rasing T AND lowering E2?

Plus with a Doc I can have blood work done every three months for probably a little cheaper.

I'm not swaying one way or another I'm just weighing my options. If I'm wrong, then by all means correct me.

Thanks.

 

[tyler4]

Well crap, Dr. Troxell is not on the BCBS list and I would be responsible for all the fees up to 2k.

Well, that sucks....not sure where I go from here.

 

[pmgamer18]

Look if your going to spend that kind of money see the best for your buck Dr. John drive out or fly out and see him or get a family Dr. to work with him over the phone.

Well crap, Dr. Troxell is not on the BCBS list and I would be responsible for all the fees up to 2k.

Well, that sucks....not sure where I go from here.

 

[tyler4]

Look if your going to spend that kind of money see the best for your buck Dr. John drive out or fly out and see him or get a family Dr. to work with him over the phone.

I may look at having him work with my family doc over the phone. That would be the best bet but I need some time to think about it.

 

[pmgamer18]

Go to his forum and post your thinging about doing this the guys the use him will get back to you.
http://www.**************.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

I may look at having him work with my family doc over the phone. That would be the best bet but I need some time to think about it.

 

[tyler4]

Go to his forum and post your thinging about doing this the guys the use him will get back to you.
http://www.**************.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Is that Dr. John's forum? The censors blocked it out. But if it is, I just now joined.

 

[tyler4]

So I just put 2 and 2 together and realized that Dr. John Crisler was the Doc on Super Human Radio a couple days ago. He spoke on GHRP-6 and was really interesting.

Sweet.

 

[pmgamer18]

Yes thats the man.

 

[CubbieBlue]

That is a pretty standard first visit fee + lab work. I would just pay the first visit and ask if they are open to having your own doc run the labs, saving you that cost at least.

 

[tyler4]

Well, the earliest the local HRT doc could see me was Feb 22 and that's too long to wait. There is another reputable HRT clinic here that I am waiting on a call back from.

 

[tyler4]

Well I just got back from appointment at the local HRT clinic. They wanted to put me on testosterone pellets??? So I told them that I will "go home and think about it."

Can someone let me know what they think about the pellets?

 

[pmgamer18]

Sure if they will give you enough pellets go for it. But they don't they give you half what you need tell you it will last 3 months and your back to low in 4 weeks. A man my size needs about 20 75 mg pellets this is 1500 mgs and this will last about 3 months maybe even 4 months.

At my forum I have a guy that has been on them for yrs he is now in his 80's he gets 1500 mgs. And the cost is about $500.

When I had them done it cost me $500 to see the Dr. then labs then I had to see him to go over the lab then he had me come in for the pellets. I did good for 4 weeks then he did more pellets when I got done it only lasted 4 dam weeks at a cost of over $1500.00. When I told him the pellets are not working he told me I am depressed I told him you know your right after paying you this much money and feeling the the way I am I am Depressed.

I later found out he was giving pellets the use for women and not enough.

Pellets are great I would be on them now if I could find a Dr. that is not trying to rip me off and will give me 1500 mgs.

 

[tyler4]

Silly Question-Are pellets suppressive?

 

[pmgamer18]

Yes any forum of Testosterone is suppressive it is a steroid and adding it to your body will shut you down. I know a few men on pellets with good Dr.'s and they don't have Estradiol problems.

 

[tyler4]

I dont think thats the route I want to go. I dont want any exogenous test as Im only 25and I still need to have kids, lol. He never mentioned HCG so w/o that, any form of test is out of the question.

Anyway, I have a solution to my problems and I thank everyone for their advice.

 

[pmgamer18]

Look if you want kids later have your sperm tested before adding Testosterone if it's good have some frozen for a back up. Most men with low T don't have good sperm find out first you might not be good and worrying about would be usless.

Going on any kind of Testosterone shuts down your testis from making T if you have good sperm and need higher levels try just doing HCG 100 IU's everyday see how this works. Then HCG acts like the LH message from the brain but is not shut off like taking T.

When you stop HCG your brain jumps back in and sends LH to your testis and they go to work the best they can. A lot of guys will stop HCG until there wife is with a baby then go back on the HCG. Some are able to make a baby staying on HCG.