T-cream > is it better to apply twice per day?
- 12-01-2009, 06:43 PM
T-cream > is it better to apply twice per day?
Is it better to apply test cream multiple times per day since it absorbs much faster into the blood than androgel does since the cream uses oils as a base?
Read this recently but wanted to ask what people think. These creams are new to me...
I am using a 20gram cream (20% or 200mg topical per day), plus hCG + adex
- 12-01-2009, 07:20 PM
I'm on same dose and regimen. 100 mg twice daily has worked very well for me. Doc prescribed it this way.
12-01-2009, 07:21 PM
12-01-2009, 08:55 PM
Remember to consider that the epidermis acts as a reservoir. 200mg once every 24hrs as opposed to 100mg every 12hrs likely has no more fluctuations of active blood levels than you would experience from endogenous production - if even that much.
I personally would opt for the convenience of once daily and do so without any issue whatsoever. Multiple doses would be more inconvenient than any minuscule fluctuation in blood levels. I mean, I'm at work longer than 12 hours. JMHO.
12-02-2009, 08:23 AM
I was on 150mg/ml cream applied twice a day. This was the only way I was able to get my test level up to 600. If I applied two ml's in the morning, I was not able to get my levels over 400. It does work but it does not follow the natural circadian rhythm of the males testosterone level. This did not much matter to me but to some it may.
12-02-2009, 11:33 AM
I understand. I think for some there is more to it than just testosterone issues. Issues with application and absoption.
300mg/day at 10% absorption equates to 30mg a day or 210mg a week. That is an awful lot to achieve a level of 600.
200mg of Test E (~175mg less the ester) injection will have most at or about a level of1300.
12-02-2009, 01:25 PM
I had a hard time absorbing the cream. That is why I was on such a high dose. I have read here that people with thyroid issue have a hard time getting good absorption rates with creams and gels. I am one of those people.
12-02-2009, 01:26 PM
12-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Gutter, you state that you had 200mg/ml cream? Is that stuff really pasty? I heard the absorption rate of anything over 100mg/ml was all over the place. I did well with the 150mg/ml but the stuff was pretty much pasty and did not absorb well.
12-02-2009, 04:01 PM
From what I know, the cream has a pretty good absorption rate, even better than gels and that's why ironically they say gels are better (since it does not spike T too much in the morning and drop off too fast during the day). Creams pretty much pull T into your blood immediately..cream is oil based and therefore passes your fat layer quickly and easily... Gels will absorb T into your skin's reservoir (instead of passing through it), and then it absorbs slowly during the day.
I am trying it 2x per day now, and just bring the pump to work and apply on my forearms at my desk after lunch.
When I get my next bloodwork, should I take blood in the morning before I apply? Or should I be pulling blood 2-3 hours after I apply the cream?
12-02-2009, 04:05 PM
12-02-2009, 04:07 PM
12-02-2009, 04:27 PM
12-02-2009, 04:34 PM
12-02-2009, 05:19 PM
Since I have switched to the androgel, I feel more of a spike with the androgel than I did the cream. An hour after I apply the androgel, just like morning wood. Never happened on the cream. I think, for me, it seemed like the cream was a steady release through the day.
I was also told to never apply the cream above the belly button. The specialist told me that if you apply it above the belly button the lymphatic system that clears the chemicals can concentrate excess hormones and this can cause breast cancer in males. I had better absorption when I applied it to my arms though.
I would always get tested right before I would apply the cream, so I could get a baseline. I believe both give you somewhat of a spike shortly after applied. I would love to do a hourly blood draw to see what the values look like through the day. While on the cream at 2 x 150mg/ml, I was tested and had levels at 600 before application. Wonder what it was after that?
12-02-2009, 05:37 PM
GENERIC NAME: TESTOSTERONE GEL - TOPICAL (tess-TOSS-ter-own)
BRAND NAME(S): Androgel, Testim
Medication Uses | How To Use | Side Effects | Precautions | Drug Interactions | Overdose | Notes | Missed Dose | Storage
USES: Testosterone gel is used to treat men with conditions of low testosterone hormone levels (e.g., hypogonadism). This drug should not be used in women.
HOW TO USE: This medicine comes with a patient information leaflet. Read it and follow the directions carefully. Ask your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist any questions that you may have about this medicine. Apply the medication as directed to the clean, dry skin of the shoulders or upper arms once daily in the morning; or use as directed by your doctor. Certain brands of this medication may also be applied to the lower stomach (abdomen). Check your patient information leaflet or ask your pharmacist if your brand may be applied to the lower stomach (abdomen). Avoid applying gel to skin with open sores or to broken, irritated skin. Do not apply this medication to the genitals (penis or scrotum). Wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water after applying this medication to reduce the possibility of spreading the medicine from your hands to other people. This medication should be dry on the skin before getting dressed. Wait 5 to 6 hours after applying the gel before you shower or swim. This medication is flammable. Avoid fire, flame, or smoking until the gel has dried.
12-02-2009, 05:47 PM
Apply AndroGel only to areas that will be covered by a short sleeve T-shirt, as shown in the shaded areas in the figure below. These areas are your shoulders and upper arms, or stomach area, or shoulders, upper arm and stomach area.
12-02-2009, 08:46 PM
12-02-2009, 08:53 PM
Here's a post on absorption of different gels/creams
Alcohol-based gels are more useful for hormone replacement since they allow the hormone to be absorbed into the skin fat and to be slowly released into the blood stream.
Oil-based transdermal gels or creams - such as the PLO gels - are good for rapidly introducing substances into the system. They aren't as useful for hormone replacement therapy because they cause the hormone to bypass the skin fat and allow the hormone to directly go into the blood stream. This causes a large peak and a rapid fall in blood levels.
12-02-2009, 09:22 PM
Here are some posts on test-cream + DHT / scrotum
Some talk about raising DHT (only for people with low DHT) via application of t-cream / androgel to scrotum in this thread:Originally Posted by MarkLA
Androgel VS others testosterone cream
Read a lot from other senior members about applying t-gel/cream to scrotum for raising DHT higher than other application sites.
Personally I have had problems raising DHT even on higher levels of test + hcg, this is why I switched to cream. I apply about 1/3mg of cream every morning to the ol sack. I wouldn't suggest it for regular people on androgel or cream though, it's really supposed to shoot up DHT this way.
12-04-2009, 01:18 AM
12-04-2009, 11:20 AM
Pretty good but not perfectly where I want it. Sex doesn't seem to take hours anymore either though.
I think one thing I need to fix now is my useage of adex. I have cut my adex usage in half since starting cream but I am not sure if this is right yet since I have not gotten updated labs and I don't know how well I am absorbing the cream yet. I've just been adjusting according to my own hypothesizing and overall feeling.
Right now I am applying 1/4ml to the scrotum each morning, on top of the 1/2 ml to the forearms twice per day. 1.25ml per day (250mg)
12-04-2009, 12:52 PM
12-04-2009, 02:16 PM
.5mg everyday now down from 1mg per day... no joint pain in the gym and no ed. Good morning wood.
I think something must be up with my estrogen metabolism/liver/etc. I've always needed a lot of adex. I am at about 17% bf now though, I can loose a few pounds from the waist.
I am slacking off on my hCG though...I sometimes forget to take it now that I am on t-cream. I have been trying to do 250iu eod (as I've done in the past) but now I've been averaging 250iu only twice per week.
12-04-2009, 03:23 PM
That does seem like a high dose of adex. This may be a odd question but how would one go about raising there estradiol? I have not been taking any adex and my estrogen is down around 12. Any suggestions?
12-04-2009, 04:10 PM
The only ways I know of directly is to increase your dose of HCG (if you are on it) and increase DHEA.
12-04-2009, 04:40 PM
My dhea levels are low, wonder if that has anything to do with it. I know there is a couple different types of dhea to take. Is one better than the other? Not on HCG yet.
12-04-2009, 05:23 PM
Mine are low as well, but I'm staying away from DHEA for now until I can figure out why I need so much adex. I think maybe I have a fatty liver, or damaged liver even though my liver values are normal now. If true I probably can't easily metabolize estrogens. Also looking into this more carefully > http://www.knowyourgenetics.com/The%...20Pathway.html
Most types of DHEA are fine to take, just take them with a fatty meal. It will absorb the best with at least 10 grams of fat. Or you can buy sublingual DHEA which I've tried but it's too much bother for me since I already take other sublinguals.
12-07-2009, 09:49 AM
At one point my DHEA levels were low, my doc had some added to my compounded test cream. I did a saliva test after I had been taking this and it showed abnormally high DHEA levels, but my blood work showed that I had low DHEA levels. I did not understand the discrepancy in the two tests. I will get some DHEA and start supplimenting with it.
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