HCG Monotherapy for Hypogonadism
- 11-23-2009, 01:59 AM
HCG Monotherapy for Hypogonadism
Long time lurker, first time poster here.
I visited my endo for low testosterone (diagnosed about a year ago) and he did bloodwork and a bone mineral density test. Result: I have borderline low testosterone, low-normal LH and FSH; and E2 at the very lowest end of normal. And I was told I am osteopoenic (borderline osteoporotic), that is, I have bones weaker than an 80 year old! I can post test results tomorrow if needed.
So my doc put me on hCG monotherapy for 4 months. Here's the thing: I was given Pregnyl hCG which I am to inject subq twice a week. The dosage comes in 5000IU's. The package information says to take 500-1000 IU everytime. I asked my doc about this and he told me it's ok to take such a large does as 5000IU, and anyway, the medicine comes in ampoules (2 separate ones, one containing the hCG in powder form and the other purified water which I should mix together), and it can't keep for long once opened(sterility issue). Since I will be taking this twice a week, that works out to 10,000IU every week. I asked the doc abt OD issue and he said its no issue; my HPGA will not be affected and the pituitary will just go back to normal once the therapy is stopped.
From what I have read from this great forum and others, this dosage is way too much. The recommended dose is about 200IU ED? Does a high dosage lead to permanent damage to the pituitary? Will me testicles become desensitized to all that hCG? I am worried and hope you guys can help me with this.
By the way, I am a recreational bodybuilder and have not previously taken any AAS, except for that one time back in 1999 when I took Deca for a week whilst trekking in the Himalayas without any PCT, which I doubt would have anything to do with my low test.
Last edited by skipper149; 11-23-2009 at 02:00 AM. Reason: typo error
- 11-23-2009, 02:02 AM
11-23-2009, 07:03 AM
I was diagnosed with the same and placed on 5000 IUs twice per week three years ago. For the first year, I injected no less than 8000 IUs per week. Now I do well on 750 twice per week, and my bone density is very good. I also supplement with calcium and omega oils high in EPA (1.2 grams min./day).
I believe my doctor was right to start me on a high dose. My testicles were shut down from Testosterone therapy. I don't know your doctor's reason. Maybe you should ask. If he doesn't have a good answer then gradually reduce your dose to 1000 IUs twice per week, and eventually to 500. Find your sweet spot.
Many here prefer more frequent injections. It has been my experience they are less effective and cause negative sides. Research has shown that HCG receptors need to be cleared. The doctor who started me on this path had 15 years experience with the protocol, and understood the same to be true.
11-23-2009, 01:36 PM
I'm doing well with pregnyl 250IU EOD and just a little arimidex for E2 control. My TT is around 900-1000 consistently now. When I injected larger doses my E2 skyrocketed. Everyone responds differently.
11-23-2009, 05:03 PM
11-23-2009, 07:44 PM
11-23-2009, 10:00 PM
So long term dosing of 8000 per week had no negative effects on you? Apart from the raised E2 perhaps? I checked with my doc and he said the reason was that pregnyl was only available at 5000IU per dose where I live. It's usually prescribed for women trying to get pregnant and seldom for a situation like mine. I called him with my concerns about OD and he said in that case I should inject 2000IU and throw away the rest. He said it's not advisable to store the remainder, as once its mixed, it may lose its efficacy or worse, have some detrimental effect. Overall he didn't seem convincing. I think I'll take your advice and experiment to find my sweet spot.
11-23-2009, 10:04 PM
11-23-2009, 10:05 PM
11-23-2009, 10:10 PM
I think for anyone without a medical degree, a look at the bloodwork, and a thorough history on the 'patient' (OP) to recommend ignoring the doctor's orders is irresponsible. That being said, the doctor's orders seem to conflict with my knowledge of the treatment. That, my friends, is why they invented the second opinion. Go to another a doctor and get a second opinion. Either that, or tell your doctor you plan on taking a different dose than what we prescribed and see what he says. There may be a reason why you can or should be on that dose. I'm not an endocrinologist and I would not be so arrogant as to contradict a specialists orders.
Back.... for real this time
11-23-2009, 10:28 PM
I've read that once you mix in the sterile water, hcg will be ok for 4-6 weeks if kept in the frig, and that if kept in the frig pre-mixed it can last up to a year.
11-23-2009, 10:30 PM
Thanks crazychemist, good points.
The reason I am not convinced by my endo is the reason he gave for putting me on 5000IU. That's the only dosage available! Maybe I should get a second opinion. Problem is, good endos are hard to come by in Singapore and some of the forum regulars here are practising doctors themselves (eg Swale)...
11-23-2009, 10:34 PM
11-23-2009, 10:36 PM
11-23-2009, 10:40 PM
11-23-2009, 10:55 PM
Healthcare here is expensive, and not so good for HRT. Consultation charges are high and this kind of treatment is not covered by insurance, and I'm paying out of my pocket. Hence my hesitation to get 2nd opinion.
11-23-2009, 11:02 PM
11-23-2009, 11:11 PM
Feeling more lethargic, otherwise no change in mood etc. Just started going back to the gym since yesterday. Let's see how it progresses...
11-24-2009, 04:20 AM
I have decided to mix the hCG and store it for multiple use, as has been suggested.
Does anyone know any reliable websites that ship bac water and sterile vials to overseas destinations?
I came across a source that mixes 0.9% sodium chloride in their bact water. I have never come across any other bact water product with NaCl in it. Is this ok to use?
Thanks for your time.
11-24-2009, 03:07 PM
hCG mixed with bacto water will generally last 4 weeks. If beyond that, I would recommend freezing a portion in syringes, at the time of reconstituting. I found it did not undermine potency by a noticeable margin.
PM me if you need a water source. I know of several. You can buy it without a script, perhaps even at your local pharmacy. DO NOT MIX WITH THE SODIUM CHLORIDE -- THAT'S FOR SINGLE USE.
11-24-2009, 03:56 PM
Don't quote me on this, but I think sodium chloride (NaCL) is fine for mixing (as a solvent), and more stable in the long run. I know most peptides that I have looked into in the past (GH, IGF-lr3, etc) recommend using a solvent (NaCL) and then using bacteriostatic water only for dilution (only for the reason that NaCL alone may sting somewhat). They say if you mix only with NaCL, the shelf-life is much longer. Once you mix with bacteriostatic water, you should refrigerate and use it up much faster.
11-24-2009, 03:58 PM
11-24-2009, 09:42 PM
I asked my doc about adding a SERM or AI but he dismissed the idea. But I think I might need it soon. It's been a week I've been on this therapy and already last night I had a heated argument with my wife, ending up almost bursting into tears (me, not her). Very emotional. Sure sign of oestrogen overload.
11-24-2009, 10:02 PM
Thanks for the correction
Here are instructions:
Before proceding, pick a clean ,dry, well lit work area, and sterilise as best you can. Also use laboratory gloves.
1) purchase empty 10 ml vial, and 30mls bacwater
2)Crack both single use vials suplied with hcg kit
3)using slin pin, draw up 1 ml suplied bacwater
4) SLOWLY run the 1ml bacwater down the side of the crack-top containing the lypholised hcg powder.
5) allow to mix on its own
6) Add 9 mls bacwater to stoppered empty vial with IM pin "3x3ml's"
7) SLOWLY draw up the 1ml HCG solution
8) Insert loaded slin pin into 10ml vial containing bacwater.
9) Invert 10ml vial enough to submerge needle, and SLOWLY push the plunger.
10) SLOWLY pull plunger back out, and push in again, to "rinse".
11) withdraw slin pin, and discard.
12) Refrigerate finished product.
11-24-2009, 10:10 PM
11-25-2009, 09:51 AM
Ah ok, I see where you are getting that from now. Yup, it's only for single use because it's from an ampule and not a multi-draw vial. Sodium Chloride is definitely stable, but yeah it's way easier to measure out when it's diluted.
I usually draw sodium chloride, mix with hcg, then pull that up and inject it slowly into a multi-draw vial and then dilute if necessary. When using NaCl, I like to use lower concentrations of hCG...ie: 1500iu vials or maybe 2000iu per CC of NaCl. Much easier to dose. When using 5,000iu which I receive now from my clinic, I use bac water. I have always been under the impression though that a solvent is necessary for proper mixing of any peptide, otherwise the solution may not have a constant concentration.
Here's another interesting fact I read recently though:
The less you dilute your peptide and the more concentrated it is, the more stable it will be and the less degradation will occur... so people should be light with the dilution.
11-25-2009, 11:03 PM
11-26-2009, 08:45 AM
11-26-2009, 01:39 PM
03-07-2010, 02:20 AM
The reconstitution solution that comes with 99% of HCG consists of sterile water. If you use the reconstituted sterile water solution with your HCG, it has no preservative so you must toss it after one day of reconstitution, or you might get a bacterial infection.
Bacteriostatic water, however, can conveniently be used as a reconstituted solution with a benzyl alcohol preservative that will ward off bacteria. the reconstitution with bac water will last up too 4 weeks, but will likely began to lose potency around the third week. You will need to refrigerate regardless after reconstitution.
I think that it is a good idea to store all HCG in the fridge, even before reconstitution. A lot of bro lore paints a picture that HCG doesnt need to be refrigerated prior to reconstitution, but all the packaging material that comes with my Rx HCG, regardless of brand, has clearly stated to store in a refrigerated enviornment, before and after reconstitution.
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