***NEED ADVICE/OPINIONS ON DR CRISLER'S TREATMENT PLAN***

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I am not a Dr, but I do consult with Drs when they are stuck banging their heads against the wall. and make recommendations on what areas to look into when HRT is not working such as thyroid adrenals and lifestlye, nutritoinal issues, gut, heavy metals and hidden infections, genetic mutations,ect Dr J is awesome about hormone replacement that is his bread and butter such as shippen they have a good understanding. A couple of shippen guys Ideal with as well and he has them tuned up on hormones perfectly, but they still do not feel right. After digging around I found food allergies, gut issues and few other things that when corrected there was a significant improvement in symptoms despite HRT. I have a client from dr Brownsteiin and he is totally baffled I am looking in to things alittle deeper. REmember I am just making suggestions or recommendation no way changing meds or prescribing anything. I have worked with many dr's patients tell them to follow physican's order as directed
    Hey Guys,

    So I have another appointment coming up with Dr. Crisler and my General Family Doc this coming Monday. I wanted to get some feedback on my blood work from Quest to get an idea on what types of questions I need to ask Dr. Crisler. I wanted to check my thyroid as I read that being put on TRT prematurely or without good reason can affect thyroid hormone levels. I really feel that I was misdiagnosed in the beginning when my testosterone levels weren't exactly in the dumps (mid 600's). There must have been signs of adrenal fatigue that they did not pick up on and other hormonal imbalances that could have been addressed without using synthetic testosterone. As I stated before, my history suggests that the Dr's that I have been working with have not been addressing the underlying issue or could have further complicated my situation. That issue is yet to be determined. But with your help, I hope to address them this coming Monday. Please see below for blood work. I would appreciate suggestions on what questions I should ask both Dr's and what steps you all think need to be taken. Thanks.

    Test Name Result Reference Range


    TSH, 3RD GENERATION 1.19 .40-4.50 mIU/L
    T4, FREE 1.1 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
    T3, TOTAL 79 76-181 ng/dL
    T3 UPTAKE 38 22-35%
    ESTRADIOL ULTRASENSITIVE 16
    DHEA, LC/MS/MS 389 61-1636 ng/dL
    FSH 3.4 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
    LH 3.8 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
    TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 373 241-827 ng/dL


  2. Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    Hey Guys,

    So I have another appointment coming up with Dr. Crisler and my General Family Doc this coming Monday. I wanted to get some feedback on my blood work from Quest to get an idea on what types of questions I need to ask Dr. Crisler. I wanted to check my thyroid as I read that being put on TRT prematurely or without good reason can affect thyroid hormone levels. I really feel that I was misdiagnosed in the beginning when my testosterone levels weren't exactly in the dumps (mid 600's). There must have been signs of adrenal fatigue that they did not pick up on and other hormonal imbalances that could have been addressed without using synthetic testosterone. As I stated before, my history suggests that the Dr's that I have been working with have not been addressing the underlying issue or could have further complicated my situation. That issue is yet to be determined. But with your help, I hope to address them this coming Monday. Please see below for blood work. I would appreciate suggestions on what questions I should ask both Dr's and what steps you all think need to be taken. Thanks.

    Test Name Result Reference Range


    TSH, 3RD GENERATION 1.19 .40-4.50 mIU/L
    T4, FREE 1.1 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
    T3, TOTAL 79 76-181 ng/dL
    T3 UPTAKE 38 22-35%
    ESTRADIOL ULTRASENSITIVE 16
    DHEA, LC/MS/MS 389 61-1636 ng/dL
    FSH 3.4 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
    LH 3.8 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
    TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 373 241-827 ng/dL
    T3 looks low. Maybe cytomel. Should be higher given TSH. Given low LH and FSH, and lowish T, you may have a pituitary problem, and you look secondary hypo, tho you say your TT used to be 600. Looks like something got screwed from being on T. Did you do a PCT? Did you abruptly stop and then get tested. I havent read this thread and only responded because you sent me a PM. But I dont know you. Sorry, this is all the time I have. Good luck and I hope it resolves. You're seeing a doctor, so you are best to ask him. If he sees this, you may end up getting fired.
    "The Iron never lies to you."~Henry Rollins
    "People have to get away from the dogma that it's all free weights or all machines. They can have sex. You can do both."~Dave Tate
    •   
       


  3. I still stand by my other replies.
    1. Your Dr. should not have put you on Testosterone meds with a level of TT at 600 and free T means nothing it's only 3% of all the T in your body. So a low FT only means in your case your TT is bound up and he only need to do some more testing to see why it was bound up like high levels of SHBG or every high Estradiol.

    2. Tell Dr. J you don't what to be on TRT for like ask if he plains on trying a restart when you get your Adrenals fixed.

    3. Your thyroid looks low not that you have your Adrenals supported you can try going on natural dessicated thyroid we can't get Armour so ask for this it the best there is out there.
    http://www.erfa-sa.com/thyroid_usa.htm
    Or
    http://www.universaldrugstore.com/me...s/Thyroid/60mg

    4. Remind Dr. J that your TT levels before TRT were in the 600's.

    I am hoping Dr. J is try to fix your Adrenals and now your Thyroid then he will try taking you off TRT so your body can make it's own. I can't say if this will work you need to take to him about it.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    Hey Guys,

    So I have another appointment coming up with Dr. Crisler and my General Family Doc this coming Monday. I wanted to get some feedback on my blood work from Quest to get an idea on what types of questions I need to ask Dr. Crisler. I wanted to check my thyroid as I read that being put on TRT prematurely or without good reason can affect thyroid hormone levels. I really feel that I was misdiagnosed in the beginning when my testosterone levels weren't exactly in the dumps (mid 600's). There must have been signs of adrenal fatigue that they did not pick up on and other hormonal imbalances that could have been addressed without using synthetic testosterone. As I stated before, my history suggests that the Dr's that I have been working with have not been addressing the underlying issue or could have further complicated my situation. That issue is yet to be determined. But with your help, I hope to address them this coming Monday. Please see below for blood work. I would appreciate suggestions on what questions I should ask both Dr's and what steps you all think need to be taken. Thanks.

    Test Name Result Reference Range


    TSH, 3RD GENERATION 1.19 .40-4.50 mIU/L
    T4, FREE 1.1 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
    T3, TOTAL 79 76-181 ng/dL
    T3 UPTAKE 38 22-35%
    ESTRADIOL ULTRASENSITIVE 16
    DHEA, LC/MS/MS 389 61-1636 ng/dL
    FSH 3.4 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
    LH 3.8 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
    TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 373 241-827 ng/dL
    T3, TOTAL 79 76-181 ng/dL

    You have very very low T3
    It should be 2x that much.
    Likely you have very high rT3
    -------------------------------
    You need overall (with lots of details) checkup.
    Minerals, vitamins, other
    Adrenals
    Thyroid
    -------------------------------

    FSH 3.4 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
    LH 3.8 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
    TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 373 241-827 ng/dL

    Your pituitary do not care that your Testosterone is low

    This is two strikes against pituitary.

    Get pituitary MRI.

    Pituitary MRI should be your first next step.

    Have you ever been hit in the nose/head, specially the part that eye glasses rest?

    ============================== ====================
    If you have your LH & FSH prior to your use of external testosterone, it may help to evaluate your chance on restart.

    If your SHBG is ~15 and restart succesfull, you may think of living like that.
    If your SHBG is high, no sense of spending energy on restarting because you would always have low BAT naturally. Sub-optimal.
    ============================== ====================

    This is your first post where you post lab results.

    Post all your lab results for the last 5 or more years.

    ////

    To get information do these tests:

    My long list on post #44 here:
    between the blue lines
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    RheinLabs 24hr urine test
    Spectracell-5000 (all available micronutrients and lipids)
    Fatty Acid Analysis at Genova Diagnostics
    Perspective at Genova Diagnostics

    //////

  5. Jan he is on T shots you can't test LH and FSH to tell if there is a pituitary problem on TRT it slows the messages down from the pituitary when the brain sees the T shots in the blood. One needs this tested before going on TRT after being on TRT you can't tell. All one can do is try a Clomid or HCG stim. test to see if testis work it they do then look at the Pituitary.
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    T3, TOTAL 79 76-181 ng/dL

    You have very very low T3
    It should be 2x that much.
    Likely you have very high rT3
    -------------------------------
    You need overall (with lots of details) checkup.
    Minerals, vitamins, other
    Adrenals
    Thyroid
    -------------------------------

    FSH 3.4 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
    LH 3.8 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
    TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 373 241-827 ng/dL

    Your pituitary do not care that your Testosterone is low

    This is two strikes against pituitary.

    Get pituitary MRI.

    Pituitary MRI should be your first next step.

    Have you ever been hit in the nose/head, specially the part that eye glasses rest?

    ============================== ====================
    If you have your LH & FSH prior to your use of external testosterone, it may help to evaluate your chance on restart.

    If your SHBG is ~15 and restart succesfull, you may think of living like that.
    If your SHBG is high, no sense of spending energy on restarting because you would always have low BAT naturally. Sub-optimal.
    ============================== ====================

    This is your first post where you post lab results.

    Post all your lab results for the last 5 or more years.

    ////

    To get information do these tests:

    My long list on post #44 here:
    between the blue lines
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    RheinLabs 24hr urine test
    Spectracell-5000 (all available micronutrients and lipids)
    Fatty Acid Analysis at Genova Diagnostics
    Perspective at Genova Diagnostics

    //////
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Jan he is on T shots you can't test LH and FSH to tell if there is a pituitary problem on TRT it slows the messages down from the pituitary when the brain sees the T shots in the blood. One needs this tested before going on TRT after being on TRT you can't tell. All one can do is try a Clomid or HCG stim. test to see if testis work it they do then look at the Pituitary.
    Just to clarify guys, I have been off of the test cyp shots and hcg for a little over a month now. I am currently only on HC for my adrenals. I will try to post my old lab results when I go to the Dr's office on Monday. Thanks for all the feedback. I'll pm you guys when I get back on Monday afternoon. Will let you all know what Dr. J recommends. I know he's considered very "knowledgeable" on this forum...but every time we speak on conference call he makes me feel like another number...I am considering a second opinion if my issues linger. 2 years of going back and forth and spending close to 2k in medicine and Dr's visits is ridiculous without any results. Thanks again guys.

    -J

  7. Did Dr. J take you off the shots or did you stop on your own.
    I see your body is trying to come back but one still can't go by LH and FSH after being on TRT. Talk to Dr. J about a restart see if he can't get your body making T again.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Jan he is on T shots you can't test LH and FSH to tell if there is a pituitary problem on TRT it slows the messages down from the pituitary when the brain sees the T shots in the blood. One needs this tested before going on TRT after being on TRT you can't tell. All one can do is try a Clomid or HCG stim. test to see if testis work it they do then look at the Pituitary.
    Phil,
    he shows
    FSH 3.4 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
    LH 3.8 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL

    Blood must have been drawn prior to T shots, (or long after), while on T-shots those numbers would have been close to zero.

    Those LH & FSH numbers produced

    TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 373 241-827 ng/dL

    Not much to get excited about.


    So he is shutdown from previous T use and not able to get to his old 600.

    My question is, is it worth to get him to 600 naturally.
    That is why I asked about SHBG.
    ..........

    ............

  9. Yes a lot of men have seen Dr. J that were put on TRT and did not need it and he got them started again. Some men were shut down from steroid use but others there dam Dr. shut them down. I have 3 men at the H2 forum that were shut down from being on TRT one got off it and just took arimidex to get his levels back up. One other one came for a different forum and when on gels because he was fatigued his levels were up there past 600 near 700 he stopped TRT on his own took some time but his levels are now back up. And they are doing fine.

    This is why I tell men don't go on TRT until you know why your low. I know on guy thought he would eat more healthy and was drinking a lot of SOY MILK everyday ended up with low T from the SOY MILK. He come to the forum at Yahoo because he felt he was to young to be on TRT it took time posting to him but as soon as he said he is now a health nut and drinks a lot of SOY MILK that was it.

    SOY in men looks to the brain like it's Estradiol and the brain thinks the Estradiol is Testosterone and his LH and FSH was why down do to SOY.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    Just to clarify guys, I have been off of the test cyp shots and hcg for a little over a month now. I am currently only on HC for my adrenals. I will try to post my old lab results when I go to the Dr's office on Monday. Thanks for all the feedback. I'll pm you guys when I get back on Monday afternoon. Will let you all know what Dr. J recommends. I know he's considered very "knowledgeable" on this forum...but every time we speak on conference call he makes me feel like another number...I am considering a second opinion if my issues linger. 2 years of going back and forth and spending close to 2k in medicine and Dr's visits is ridiculous without any results. Thanks again guys.

    -J
    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Yes a lot of men have seen Dr. J that were put on TRT and did not need it and he got them started again. Some men were shut down from steroid use but others there dam Dr. shut them down. I have 3 men at the H2 forum that were shut down from being on TRT one got off it and just took arimidex to get his levels back up. One other one came for a different forum and when on gels because he was fatigued his levels were up there past 600 near 700 he stopped TRT on his own took some time but his levels are now back up. And they are doing fine.

    This is why I tell men don't go on TRT until you know why your low. I know on guy thought he would eat more healthy and was drinking a lot of SOY MILK everyday ended up with low T from the SOY MILK. He come to the forum at Yahoo because he felt he was to young to be on TRT it took time posting to him but as soon as he said he is now a health nut and drinks a lot of SOY MILK that was it.

    SOY in men looks to the brain like it's Estradiol and the brain thinks the Estradiol is Testosterone and his LH and FSH was why down do to SOY.
    PmGamer,

    To clarify your prior post, I actually stopped the use on my own when I noticed that my nipples were getting sensitive. On top of that I wasn't seeing any improvements mentally or sexually from being on the test shots, so I decided to stop. I'm very surprised Dr. J didn't try a restart protocol before putting me on trt, but I didn't figure to challenge his knowledge at the time. He told me that I was "sick" and needed to get my adrenals back in line while bringing my testosterone to the upper range. I just don't think my General Practitioner and Dr. J have been thorough enough in looking at all possible angles..thats what makes me the most frustrated, oh well. I'll bring up what everyone has mentioned thus far this Monday. I appreciate all the help and feedback from everyone. Much respect.

    -J

  11. I know what Dr. J was trying to do your adrenals were bad and he was trying to treat them and get your T levels up so they were not stressing your Adrenals even more. Now that you stopped TRT ask him to try to jump start you.

    A lot of dam good Dr.'s like Dr. Marianco will try to treat Adrenals and Thyroid first to see is Testosterone levels will come back up on there own.
    http://www.definitivemind.com/forums/index.php
    But these men were very low on there T levels. You were not and like I said your Dr. should not have put you on TRT with a level of 600.

    So now all you can hope for is that Dr. J can get you jump started again if not you will end up needing TRT for life.

  12. Sounds excellent dude.
    I hope that you can get your normal numbers back, I have been on HRT for a few years since my early 20's and natural was always better.
    More of a raging sex drive it is close HRT but it is just not the same as your natural system driving itself at its peak.
    I hope all goes well with your visit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshNyce View Post
    Just to clarify guys, I have been off of the test cyp shots and hcg for a little over a month now. I am currently only on HC for my adrenals. I will try to post my old lab results when I go to the Dr's office on Monday. Thanks for all the feedback. I'll pm you guys when I get back on Monday afternoon. Will let you all know what Dr. J recommends. I know he's considered very "knowledgeable" on this forum...but every time we speak on conference call he makes me feel like another number...I am considering a second opinion if my issues linger. 2 years of going back and forth and spending close to 2k in medicine and Dr's visits is ridiculous without any results. Thanks again guys.

    -J

  13. I would say with a good Bioavailable testosterone along with a decent number in the 600's it would be worth it on the Labcrop scale I was natural from mid 600's to mid 800's this was in my late teens early 20's, before hormones got all jacked up.
    It was miserable but I would say it may be very well worth keeping his numbers natural in the 600's if them would have been close to his natural normal numbers anway.

  14. Hi Jinxie

    I have been reading your posts with great interest and now wants to have some help from you. first few questions if you don't mind to answer.

    1-what was the reason for your hypogonadism?
    2- how is going your HCG monotherapy, I am assuming you are just on HCG only.
    3-do you feel over time you HCG dosase has decreased? if yes what might be the reason.

    4-have you checked your LH and FSH recently, some say on HCG these values go down, some claim HCG actually bring these valuse up.


    about me, I became hypo just 12 months ago , when used Saw palmetto for my hairloss

    If you want you can start new thread for me so that other people can benefit from our discussion.

    I thank you in advance for your time and help.

    regards

    sps

  15. Quote Originally Posted by spstriken View Post
    Hi Jinxie

    I have been reading your posts with great interest and now wants to have some help from you. first few questions if you don't mind to answer.

    1-what was the reason for your hypogonadism?
    2- how is going your HCG monotherapy, I am assuming you are just on HCG only.
    3-do you feel over time you HCG dosase has decreased? if yes what might be the reason.

    4-have you checked your LH and FSH recently, some say on HCG these values go down, some claim HCG actually bring these valuse up.


    about me, I became hypo just 12 months ago , when used Saw palmetto for my hairloss

    If you want you can start new thread for me so that other people can benefit from our discussion.

    I thank you in advance for your time and help.

    regards

    sps
    If one examined the case I am sure you that there were other factors at play and not just a simple supplement as the main contributing factor. It may have contributed slighly, but total was coincidental.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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