blood results post gyno surgery, big problems

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    blood results post gyno surgery, big problems


    my name is nick, i've had a thread going in the anabolics section but was told i might get more wisdom over here as the situation developed. i would appreciate any help at all. here are the facts:

    • i did two very ignorant cycles of 17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol and 17a-methyl-4-chloro-androsta-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol (i think thats halodrol 50 and pheraplex) while competitively olympic lifting in high school over two years ago
    • they were 30 days each at high doseage and i didn't do a PCT
    • within 3-4 months of finishing i had developed some masses under both nipples, and over the next two years it became bilateral gynecomastia with a lot of fat in the surrounding region
    • joined the army, am now a full time engineering student and active duty. since surgeries are paid for i got a mammoplasty reduction and the gyno was gone
    • within a week nipple itching and tenderness, now three months later the gyno is back in full force
    • haven't touched any type of synthetic or supplement other than whey for years
    • went to an endocrinologist, who ordered bloodwork and immediately put me on arimidex (1mg ED for 1-2 weeks, then 1mg EOD)
    • got my bloodwork back yesterday, with these results:

    1. Testosterone Total- 558 (250-1100) ng/dL
    2. Testosterone Free- 92.1 (35.0-155.0) pg/mL
    3. Testosterone Free %: 1.65% (1.50-2.20)
    4. Estradiol- 17.2 (7.6-42.6) pg/mL
    5. TSH- 2.89 (0.5-5.0) MIU/L
    6. LH- 3.97 (2.0-12.0) MIU/mL
    7. FSH- 2.80 (1.0-8.0) MIU/mL
    8. DHEAS- 276 (110-510) mcg/dL
    9. BHCG- negative
    10. Prolactin- 16.9 (1.61-18.77) ng/ML


    my estradiol and test are fine, and everything is within range- so why am i on arimidex and why am i growing boobs? i'm thinking i should stop arimidex now, as my estradiol levels are already relatively low and driving them into the floor on 1mg ED for another week could really screw me, or so i am told. i am in fantastic shape, eat healthy, and have approximately 8% body fat but somehow my lower chest develops fatty tissue rapidly. people on the other thread pointed at prolactin, which i know very little about. thanks in advance for the help.

    -Nick

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    Yes stop the arimidex your going down to low and taking 1mg at anytime is way to much. At best one only needs .5 mgs every other day to get E2 levels down. Then gage by your night time and morning wood. If this stops then your down to low so stop and when your wood comes back that day go back on it but do .25mgs every 2 to 3 days. As for Gyno if your gyno is tissue arimidex will not take it down you need sugary. Then keeping your E2 levels down your gyno will stay down.

    Nick your levels of T are OK could be better but in time your body will come back if not you need to see a Dr. like Dr. John at www.allthingsmale.com to get you jump started again he will work with your Dr. over the phone to do this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Yes stop the arimidex your going down to low and taking 1mg at anytime is way to much. At best one only needs .5 mgs every other day to get E2 levels down. Then gage by your night time and morning wood. If this stops then your down to low so stop and when your wood comes back that day go back on it but do .25mgs every 2 to 3 days. As for Gyno if your gyno is tissue arimidex will not take it down you need sugary. Then keeping your E2 levels down your gyno will stay down.

    Nick your levels of T are OK could be better but in time your body will come back if not you need to see a Dr. like Dr. John to get you jump started again he will work with your Dr. over the phone to do this.
    regarding surgery, i just got surgery in September. it worked, but now its already back. if i need it again, the doctor will do it in a few months but theres no point in me going under the knife again if its just going to come back. as far as Dr. John, what could he do to fix this situation? and how much does it cost for him to work with my doctor? i'm going to a very experienced endocrinologist as it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmgamer18 View Post
    Yes stop the arimidex your going down to low and taking 1mg at anytime is way to much. At best one only needs .5 mgs every other day to get E2 levels down. Then gage by your night time and morning wood. If this stops then your down to low so stop and when your wood comes back that day go back on it but do .25mgs every 2 to 3 days. As for Gyno if your gyno is tissue arimidex will not take it down you need sugary. Then keeping your E2 levels down your gyno will stay down.

    Nick your levels of T are OK could be better but in time your body will come back if not you need to see a Dr. like Dr. John at www.allthingsmale.com to get you jump started again he will work with your Dr. over the phone to do this.
    I'm sure youre trying to be helpful but don't you think Nick should talk to his endocrinologist before stopping meds his doctor put him on? Nick I would NOT change anything without talking to your doctor. What did the endo say about estradiol? Did you talk to him/her about cutting back on the adex?
    Back.... for real this time
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    I was thinking it terms of your Testosteone levels if the don't come up better. All you can do to keep gyno down is to keep you Estradiol levels good. Your doing a few cycles mess you up and this can be your problems with Gyno.
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    So at the time the bloodwork was done were you on Arimidex? I'm kinda confused, sorry.
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    I would normally agree with advice of stopping Arimidex for a while.

    But

    this case is unusual.

    nick603 was first on (1mg ED for 1-2 weeks, then 1mg EOD)

    this is massive dose of Arimidex.

    With all this he still have significant E2 and significant TT.

    Testosterone Total- 558 (250-1100) ng/dL
    Estradiol- 17.2 (7.6-42.6) pg/mL

    Also
    Prolactin- 16.9 (1.61-18.77) ng/ML

    nick have significantly altered hormonal pathways.

    I would suggest staying on current Arimidex dose and extensive testing of as many hormone items as possible throughout known hormone pathways.


    Blood, urine,

    evaluation and then further testing.

    ============================== ===================
    As one possible example:

    Rhein 24hr urine testing
    plus
    my long list of tests as shown on post #44
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    ============================== ====================

    If you know your SHBG levels, a rule of thumb, (numeriacally) you want:

    E2(pg/mL)~(2/3)*SHBG(nmol/L)
    ============================== ====================

    ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyChemist View Post
    I'm sure youre trying to be helpful but don't you think Nick should talk to his endocrinologist before stopping meds his doctor put him on? Nick I would NOT change anything without talking to your doctor. What did the endo say about estradiol? Did you talk to him/her about cutting back on the adex?
    haven't had a chance to talk to the doctor yet. the post i'm at doesn't have an endocrinologist, so they referred me to a civilian one but require all my bloodwork to be done at the army hospital. i ran to the hospital thursday to get my bloodwork, and am giving it to him tomorrow. i will talk to him about cutting back on the adex though, because i've been very sad since day 3/4 on it and am always a very happy person- never had any sort of depression.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyler4 View Post
    So at the time the bloodwork was done were you on Arimidex? I'm kinda confused, sorry.
    i WAS NOT on arimidex when bloodwork was taken. blood was taken thursday, 29 October. arimidex was started friday, 30 October.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick603 View Post
    haven't had a chance to talk to the doctor yet. the post i'm at doesn't have an endocrinologist, so they referred me to a civilian one but require all my bloodwork to be done at the army hospital. i ran to the hospital thursday to get my bloodwork, and am giving it to him tomorrow. i will talk to him about cutting back on the adex though, because i've been very sad since day 3/4 on it and am always a very happy person- never had any sort of depression.



    i WAS NOT on arimidex when bloodwork was taken. blood was taken thursday, 29 October. arimidex was started friday, 30 October.
    In my previous post I assumed that you were on massive doses of Arimidex.
    If you were not using Arimidex prior to the blood test you posted,
    then you should not use any arimidex at all.
    Your E2 is not high at all.

    Clear communication is paramount.

    But look thru tests I suggested, should shed some light at your condition.

    .
    ...........
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    In my previous post I assumed that you were on massive doses of Arimidex.
    If you were not using Arimidex prior to the blood test you posted,
    then you should not use any arimidex at all.
    Your E2 is not high at all.

    Clear communication is paramount.

    ...........
    i apologize for that miscommunication jan, i plan to stop the adex immediately. i'm not sure what course of action to take now, and am hoping to get a word in with my endocrinologist tomorrow. my pre-arimidex blood results don't appear extreme enough to cause me to regrow gynecomastia within a month after having it completely removed, but you gentlemen might be seeing something i'm not.
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    I dont mean to doubt the validity of the gyno returning but does the tissue feel the of same as it did before hand? Sometimes, after gyno surgery there can be either a hematoma (sp?) or a build up scar tissue. Being this long after the surgery (and the fact it's on both sides) it's probably not a hematoma. But I wouldnt be surprised if it was scar tissue. Sometime scar tissue takes a while to dissolve.

    Just a thought since I dont have an explanation as to how you could get true gynecomastia with that low of an E level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyler4 View Post
    I dont mean to doubt the validity of the gyno returning but does the tissue feel the of same as it did before hand? Sometimes, after gyno surgery there can be either a hematoma (sp?) or a build up scar tissue. Being this long after the surgery (and the fact it's on both sides) it's probably not a hematoma. But I wouldnt be surprised if it was scar tissue. Sometime scar tissue takes a while to dissolve.

    Just a thought since I dont have an explanation as to how you could get true gynecomastia with that low of an E level.
    what makes me think its not scar tissue is that it grew slowly since i had the surgery. for about a week after the surgery my chest looked phenomenal, then slowly it started going back to normal. my endocrinologist checked it out, and was pretty certain it's returned gyno
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    I'm not sure how experinced your surgeon is with gyno, but I'd ask him. It's not completely impossible that it's scar tissue even since it has taken a while to come up. It wouldn't have formed right after surgery anyway.

    Most of the time endo's arent familiar with this side of gyno.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick603 View Post
    what makes me think its not scar tissue is that it grew slowly since i had the surgery. for about a week after the surgery my chest looked phenomenal, then slowly it started going back to normal. my endocrinologist checked it out, and was pretty certain it's returned gyno
    Since, more or less we ruled out E2 as a reason,

    your prolactin is next suspect.

    also progesterone if it is higher than 1.2ng/mL

    .
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    how do you actually lower prolactin?
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    There are meds your Dr. can give you to lower it.
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