Evista

[bigironkiller]

Endo just prescribed Evista for my high estradiol. Does this medication actually lower estrogen. All I can seem to understand Is that it blocks estrogen in certain tissues, at which it does a good job. I had initially asked for anastrozol but he said no. My estradiol level was 53, should I find another doc or what?

 

[Rodja]

It's a SERM, but I don't think it'll help your E2 issues.

 

[bigironkiller]

Why do we pay doctors so much for there supposed intelligence when in fact they have no clue. Like i said me estradiol was 53 so i called for an AI to lower it and what does he do, prescribes a med that not only doesnt lower estro but is not even approved for use in men. So i call him back and tell him this and he proceeds to tell me that a high estro level is healthy and not to worry about it. WTF............ I am dropping his ass right now and finding a new doc

 

[JanSz]

Why do we pay doctors so much for there supposed intelligence when in fact they have no clue. Like i said me estradiol was 53 so i called for an AI to lower it and what does he do, prescribes a med that not only doesnt lower estro but is not even approved for use in men. So i call him back and tell him this and he proceeds to tell me that a high estro level is healthy and not to worry about it. WTF............ I am dropping his ass right now and finding a new doc

There is number of useless tests for E2 estradiol.

What kind of E2 test have you done.
post laboratory name, name of test, units, range


How do you supply your injectable testosterone.
If you do that infrequently, say once a week, E2 levels move valiantly thruout the week.
You may have one day 5 and the next day 55.
To figure that out one would have to draw blood daily over two cycles and check E2.
That would mean to draw blood daily for 15 days and take average.

Assuming that you actually have E2=53

What is your SHBG

If your SHBG is very high, you will need a lots of E2.

What counts is FreeE2
that is similar to FreeTestosterone.

If your SHBG~50's
E2~50" may be about right
that may be what you need.


....

 

[bigironkiller]

There is number of useless tests for E2 estradiol.

What kind of E2 test have you done.
post laboratory name, name of test, units, range


How do you supply your injectable testosterone.
If you do that infrequently, say once a week, E2 levels move valiantly thruout the week.
You may have one day 5 and the next day 55.
To figure that out one would have to draw blood daily over two cycles and check E2.
That would mean to draw blood daily for 15 days and take average.

Assuming that you actually have E2=53

What is your SHBG

If your SHBG is very high, you will need a lots of E2.

What counts is FreeE2
that is similar to FreeTestosterone.

If your SHBG~50's
E2~50" may be about right
that may be what you need.


....

Lab tests were done by quest diagnostics

estradiol was 53 pg/mL ref 13-54
didnt know there was such a thing as free estradiol so i will have to ask my new doc to run that test
SHBG 19nmol/L ref 13–71 nmol/L
Total Testosterone 200 ng/dl ref 241-827 ng/dl

Should have mentioned this but I was on HCG shots and for a while but for over 3mths I have been off everything trying to re-evaluate my condition and not just treat the symptoms. What tests should I specifically run to find underlying causes for hypogonadism and specific hormone tests???

 

[bigironkiller]

Seeing a doc thurs and here is what im gonna ask her to run:

total testosterone
free testosterone
shbg
tsh
t4
free t4
t3
free t3
somatomedin-c
estradiol
free estradiol
e2 total and free
total estrogen
estrone
dhea
pregnalone
hdl
ldl
triglyceride
total cholesterol
dht
fsh
lh
igf-1


anything esle

 

[Dadnatron]

Why do we pay doctors so much for there supposed intelligence when in fact they have no clue. Like i said me estradiol was 53 so i called for an AI to lower it and what does he do, prescribes a med that not only doesnt lower estro but is not even approved for use in men. So i call him back and tell him this and he proceeds to tell me that a high estro level is healthy and not to worry about it. WTF............ I am dropping his ass right now and finding a new doc

BIK... you really need to recognize and understand a bit more before you go off like that. If you don't understand what you are asking for... don't become upset when you get what you ask for.

THERE ARE NO estrogen analog inhibitors approved for men because 99% of men have little or essentially NO Estrogen, certainly not to the degree that without previous manipulation, it would need to be inhibited. Before you go off about the idiocy of the docs... you should understand the issue and that he did EXACTLY what he should have done. There might be some who believe that another medication would have been better. However, he did nothing wrong.

 

[bigironkiller]

BIK... you really need to recognize and understand a bit more before you go off like that. If you don't understand what you are asking for... don't become upset when you get what you ask for.

THERE ARE NO estrogen analog inhibitors approved for men because 99% of men have little or essentially NO Estrogen, certainly not to the degree that without previous manipulation, it would need to be inhibited. Before you go off about the idiocy of the docs... you should understand the issue and that he did EXACTLY what he should have done. There might be some who believe that another medication would have been better. However, he did nothing wrong.

How do you suppose he did the right thing. I approached him about my high E2 and the aromatase issue possibly affecting my testosterone levels, which he then prescribes a Rx that will do nothing to address that problem. So he did do something wrong.

 

[Dadnatron]

How do you suppose he did the right thing. I approached him about my high E2 and the aromatase issue possibly affecting my testosterone levels, which he then prescribes a Rx that will do nothing to address that problem. So he did do something wrong.

Taken directly from the Evista website. Prescribing information.

12 CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY
12.1 Mechanism of Action
Raloxifene is an estrogen agonist/antagonist, commonly referred to as a selective estrogen receptormodulator (SERM). The biological actions of raloxifene are largely mediated through binding to estrogen receptors. This binding results in activation of estrogenic pathways in some tissues (agonism) and blockade of estrogenic pathways in others (antagonism). The agonistic or antagonistic action of raloxifene depends on the extent of recruitment of coactivators and corepressors to estrogen receptor (ER) target gene promotors.

 

[bigironkiller]

Taken directly from the Evista website. Prescribing information.

12 CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY
12.1 Mechanism of Action
Raloxifene is an estrogen agonist/antagonist, commonly referred to as a selective estrogen receptormodulator (SERM). The biological actions of raloxifene are largely mediated through binding to estrogen receptors. This binding results in activation of estrogenic pathways in some tissues (agonism) and blockade of estrogenic pathways in others (antagonism). The agonistic or antagonistic action of raloxifene depends on the extent of recruitment of coactivators and corepressors to estrogen receptor (ER) target gene promotors.

Correct, it blocks estrogen. It does nothing to the aromatase enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen.

 

[pmgamer18]

My Dr. did the same dam crap to me giving me Evista I did labs every 8 weeks and all he kept telling me is give it time. :wtf1: is with them I finely told him if he dose not give me arimidex I will buy it from over seas at the ADC.

He gave in telling me my BCBS will not pay for it and he did not want them calling him about it. BCBS paid for it and the guy at the drug store told me he sells more of this to men the women.

You need to put your foot down with your Endo and I feel they are not good Dr.'s for low T and what he told you about E's and men shows me to be right.

Start with .5 mgs every other day until you get some dam strong night time and morning wood. This means your at your best levels for Estradiol keep taking it but look for your wood to stop this means your going down to low. When this happens just stop the Arimidex until your wood comes back that day go back on the Arimidex but do less say .25mgs or 1/4 of a pill every 2 to 3 days gage not going to low by your wood.

 

[bigironkiller]

Talked to doc today who really knows his stuff. Starting all over with the hormones. Got blood drawn today and an MRI for Monday. Got scripts for Armidex, testosterone and HCG. Will start of taking Armidex @ .5mg q3d and retest in 1mth. Based on those labs will decide on if we need to add in T and HCG. He is also rechecking my cortisol which he said from previous tests is extremly low. Which is also why he held off on prescribing Armour, because fixing my thyroid with messed up cortisol could cause me more stress. He was really clear on telling me he understands that being in normal lab ranges is totally different than being in optimal ranges. And he has been the first doc to tell me he wants me to feel better.

 

[pmgamer18]

Your Dr. sounds like he is on top of all this but with the arimidex not on TRT you need to be carefull not to go down to low this is what I tell men to not go to low.
And read this link about Adrenals and Thyroid I helped with the FAQ'S in this link.
http://livingnetwork.co.za/hormones/adrenal-fatigue/

====================================
What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

 

[bigironkiller]

Thanks pmgamer. Maybe I will dose 2X/wk at first to see when my wood comes back then adjust from there.

 

[pmgamer18]

I have told this to men on TRT in there 80's and they got there wood back. They were using a penis pump and ring to have sex. I hope I can still have sex when I am this old.

 

[spinn]

I have told this to men on TRT in there 80's and they got there wood back. They were using a penis pump and ring to have sex. I hope I can still have sex when I am this old.

Do i even want to ask who 80 year old men have sex with? A GILF perhaps?

 

[pmgamer18]

The one guy was a Vet and retired an EMT he was still having sex with his wife both were in dam good shape. But he had bad ED problems and it was due to his being on TRT for yrs. and high levels of Estradiol do to the TRT.

VD is a big problem in old peoples homes, even HIV so old people have sex.

 

[jinxie]

BIK... you really need to recognize and understand a bit more before you go off like that. If you don't understand what you are asking for... don't become upset when you get what you ask for.

THERE ARE NO estrogen analog inhibitors approved for men because 99% of men have little or essentially NO Estrogen, certainly not to the degree that without previous manipulation, it would need to be inhibited. Before you go off about the idiocy of the docs... you should understand the issue and that he did EXACTLY what he should have done. There might be some who believe that another medication would have been better. However, he did nothing wrong.

I agree 100%. AIs are not even approved for high E2 in men under most health care plans. I had a phat PPO with great RX coverage and it didn't cover me when my E2 was 90.

And I sure as hell was not accusing the doc that put the program together that got me that high (without also RXing an AI, even though it was clear as day my E2 would end up way over range when my total T tripled -- so did my E2, as would that of most).

 

[JanSz]

Talked to doc today who really knows his stuff. Starting all over with the hormones. Got blood drawn today and an MRI for Monday. Got scripts for Armidex, testosterone and HCG. Will start of taking Armidex @ .5mg q3d and retest in 1mth. Based on those labs will decide on if we need to add in T and HCG. He is also rechecking my cortisol which he said from previous tests is extremly low. Which is also why he held off on prescribing Armour, because fixing my thyroid with messed up cortisol could cause me more stress. He was really clear on telling me he understands that being in normal lab ranges is totally different than being in optimal ranges. And he has been the first doc to tell me he wants me to feel better.

You better do good thyroid test.
Lots of people have a high ReverseT3
Giving them Armour does not help.
I am not saying that you have it, but it is widely under-checked hormone,
but it is a reason for slow metabolism.

Make sure that you have plenty of

selenium
iodine
and vit D
at least.

....
look at my long list, all tests are there.

.
.

 

[bigironkiller]

jinxie, if you see a thread started by me, in the future spread your bull**** somewhere else. I dont have the time to waste reading idiotic post like yours.

 

[bigironkiller]

Will do Jansz, always good advice.

 

[jinxie]

jinxie, if you see a thread started by me, in the future spread your bull**** somewhere else. I dont have the time to waste reading idiotic post like yours.

You sure are insecure for such a big guy. And I haven't a clue what you are referring to you, when you accuse me of spreading bull crap. You're the one speaking out of turn, school child. You've been around here long enough to know what you need to do for elevated E2, as well as the difference between a SERM and an AI, at least that's what I would expect from someone who has posted 885 times.

 

[bigironkiller]

You sure are insecure for such a big guy. And I haven't a clue what you are referring to you, when you accuse me of spreading bull crap. You're the one speaking out of turn, school child. You've been around here long enough to know what you need to do for elevated E2, as well as the difference between a SERM and an AI, at least that's what I would expect for someone who has posted 885 times.

Jinxie, I do know the difference between an AI and Serm. Asking about a med I knew nothing about at first is very different than not understanding it later. Your bull**** I was refering to was your other post in my malpractice thread. You say I'm insecure, I'm just pissed at the idiocy of docs. So before you question my knowledge make sure you understand as well.

 

[jinxie]

Jinxie, I do know the difference between an AI and Serm. Asking about a med I knew nothing about at first is very different than not understanding it later. Your bull**** I was refering to was your other post in my malpractice thread. You say I'm insecure, I'm just pissed at the idiocy of docs. So before you question my knowledge make sure you understand as well.

I suspect you are really pissed about the idiocy of someone other than your docs. And you have an anger management issue to boot.

As an aside, I haven't been to this board for a few months, and frankly I am astonished what I am reading on the anti-aging board. Much of these discussions used to be out of bounds, particularly the ones pertaining to anabolic steroids. Maybe they aren't any more. It's too bad. There's a major quality control issue. And a little roid rage as well, LOL.

You needn't worry, I won't be giving you any further feedback, as you're too daft to get it, and too insecure to hear anything that challenges your misguided notions. If you find an attorney to handle your alleged malpractice claim, I'd love to see his or her credentials.

 

[bigironkiller]

Again where do you see me continuing to pursue malpractice. Nice touch with the roid rage, I suspect I just have a rage issue when child like minds like yours try to give me advice. If you have been away for a couple of months just stay away. I'm trying to feel better and will take advice from the knowledgeable people on this board like Jansz etc. Both my threads have been over for quite some time and you keep trying to prove a point you misunderstood and I no longer care about. I can't sleep and have nothing better to do right now so Im making my final comment. Finish high school let your nuts drop and leave legitimate conversations to the grown ups.