Blood test restults

[SPR1GGAN]

I am currently talking to an MD that specializes in Anti-Aging (will optimize hormone levels even when not outside of normal range), and have just gotten my first blood test back. I'm looking at the numbers and I wanted some feedback. I'm also pretty damn new here... So... Nice to meet you guys!

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.4 (low)
PSA, Free 0.21
Free PSA % 52.5
Testosterone, Serum 483 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free 9.8 pg/mL
DHEA-Sulfate 148 ug/dL
TSH 4.0
LH 2.9
FSH, Serum 3.6
Estradiol 19
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 3.9


I didn't include the CBC w/ diff & platelet as all my levels were in the normal range... and my urine test came back negative on all problematic flags (protein / glucose / etc ...)



My first impression is that my Serum Test is rather average-low and my free test is absurdly low... Most of my test is being bound, and that's not so good.


The MD is hesitant to initiate test therapy before 35, which I am 5 years shy of. He is open to the idea of HCG therapy, to increase my natural production. LH and FSH numbers I'm not too familiar with, so maybe someone could throw me some feedback.

My diet is clean (35% fat 35% carb 30% protein). I take a 2x daily multivitamin (GNC Mega Men). I sleep regularly. I'm 30.

:cheers: Any advice / feedback?

 

[ProfBush]

Your TSH is way high. I would start with the thyroid as the first priority. Your LH and FSH levels don't seem to be off.

BTW, when you post test results, you need to include the range supplied with the test results. As counter-intuitive as it may be, the range is not the same for all labs and all tests.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

TSH 4.0 uiU/mL Reference 0.450-4.50 (High end of normal)

I did some reading as well and it looks like 3.0 should be considered the cap of "normal" by many people. Others are fine with 5.0 being the cap. Either way a result of 4.0 seems high. LH and FSH both seem on the low end of the spectrum, as well as free test. Low T3 and T4 and high TSH is a pretty clear indication of Hypothyroidism. I have only had my T3 (Triiodothyronine) levels checked as of now... and they are in the normal range. Looks like I'm in for more tests.

I'm a little surprised that the blood test didn't test for SHBG.


Test, Serum 483 Ref 241-827
Free Test 9.8 Ref 8.7 - 25.1
DHEA-Sulfate 148 Ref 120-520
LH 2.9 Ref 1.5-9.3
FSH 3.6 Ref 1.4-18.1
Estradiol 19 Ref 0-53
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 3.9 Ref 2.0-4.4

 

[JanSz]

I am currently talking to an MD that specializes in Anti-Aging (will optimize hormone levels even when not outside of normal range), and have just gotten my first blood test back. I'm looking at the numbers and I wanted some feedback. I'm also pretty damn new here... So... Nice to meet you guys!

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.4 (low)
PSA, Free 0.21
Free PSA % 52.5
Testosterone, Serum 483 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free 9.8 pg/mL
DHEA-Sulfate 148 ug/dL
TSH 4.0
LH 2.9
FSH, Serum 3.6
Estradiol 19
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 3.9


I didn't include the CBC w/ diff & platelet as all my levels were in the normal range... and my urine test came back negative on all problematic flags (protein / glucose / etc ...)



My first impression is that my Serum Test is rather average-low and my free test is absurdly low... Most of my test is being bound, and that's not so good.


The MD is hesitant to initiate test therapy before 35, which I am 5 years shy of. He is open to the idea of HCG therapy, to increase my natural production. LH and FSH numbers I'm not too familiar with, so maybe someone could throw me some feedback.

My diet is clean (35% fat 35% carb 30% protein). I take a 2x daily multivitamin (GNC Mega Men). I sleep regularly. I'm 30.

:cheers: Any advice / feedback?

I suggest that you post all your test results.
You may want to scan all the pages and attach, rather than re-typing.

You have thyroid problem.
Usually adrenals are not far behind.
Adrenals and thyroid are not only about their respective hormones but also supporting minerals, vitamins, elements.

You are still young.
Try to leave outright testosterone supplementation till end.

Have you done steroids.
Weight problems.
Sleep problems.
Any other health problems.

Best would be if you could arrange following tests.

My list on post #44, page #2, between blue lines, here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-5.html

Genova Diagnostics
HairAnalysis
Elemental and Metaboic fatty Acid Analysis

SpectraCell-500
http://www.spectracell.com/media/standard-doss-sample.pdf
=====================================================

You should fix first
Adrenals/Thyroid
glucose/insulin, metabolic problems

and then look into testosterone management, if required.

Here you should start first with HCG only.

HCH-shot=250iu/EOD
is good start

NEWER do any outright testosterone supplementation without being first on HCG.

..............
.
.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

Here are the scanned pages.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

You have thyroid problem.
Usually adrenals are not far behind.
Adrenals and thyroid are not only about their respective hormones but also supporting minerals, vitamins, elements.

I may have hypothyroidism. I may not. I have few, if any, symptoms of hypothyroidism. The only one I can mention is low libido... which could be caused by any number of things. (Stress / Low free test/Psychological)

I do not THINK I have a problem, but the results show I am on the borderline. That is something I will speak to the MD about. Just because I feel okay doesn't mean there might not be a problem. I am a firm believer though, that if something isn't broken, don't fix it. So I'll let him decide. I probably need more tests (FREE T3 / T4)

Have you done steroids.
Weight problems.
Sleep problems.
Any other health problems.

Nearly 7 years ago I did a cycle of 4-AD and followed PCT. When I should have been learning about form and diet, I was only interested in fast gains. Since then I have been completely natural. I approached the doctor originally because of some libido problems. I haven't been as interested in sex as I used to be. I found a doctor that works with people like me, and here I am.

No weight problems. I'm 16% body fat. Endomorph. 6'4". I've dropped 4% body fat over the past three months by cleaning up my diet.
No sleep problems
No allergies / Not on any medications
I take fish oil, a multivitamin, whey protein, glucosamine / condroitin, HMB upon waking and when going to sleep and L-Glutamine upon waking and when going to sleep.

I avoid parabens. I eat plenty of healthy fats. I get enough sleep.

You should fix first
Adrenals/Thyroid
glucose/insulin, metabolic problems

and then look into testosterone management, if required.

Here you should start first with HCG only.

HCH-shot=250iu/EOD
is good start

NEWER do any outright testosterone supplementation without being first on HCG.

This MD won't prescribe Test to someone as young as I am. I don't need it. HCG will meet my T level needs just fine. I'd be happy to be in the 800 range, and that's what this doc wants me to have. We see eye to eye there. As far as adrenals, I will speak to him. I think its a concern as well. Glucose / Insulin I'll ask about as well.

 

[JanSz]

Hemoglobin=15.2----16 is ideal

sodium-143
potassium-4.1
good start to have good adrenals

Chol-147, try to be at least higher than 150
HDL-39 eat 500mg B3/day

DHEAs-148 that is low, eat DHEA pills

TSH=4 thyroid problems a big time
T3=3.9(2.0-4.4)


LH-2.9
FSH-3.6
your body set point is satisfied with your to low T levels,
possibly remnants of your 4-AD use.
Body it is not asking for more T, assume that testicles could do more if asked.
Another way of saying that HCG alone have not bad chance at succeeding.

E2=19(0-53)
mostly ok, but hard to say for two reasons
test should be
If from LabCorp
Estradiol, Sensitive (140244) (3-70)(pg/mL)

or
if from Quest Diagnostics
Estradiol [4021X](13- 54 pg/mL)

Dr John officially supports Quest's
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
but many people are getting erratic results and (I think) he is investigating that issues with Quests management.
Theoretically, this should be the best test, but in practice there are problems with it.

The other reason for uncertainty is lack of known SHBG level.
Higher SHBG requires higher E2
Lower SHBG requires lower E2

It is really about FreeE2, but we do not have a tests for it, so we are guessing even more than usual.

===================================================

I need to point to two items that you mentioned and I have different view.
What is proper Testosterone level?
What is properly adjusted thyroid?

To asses your Testosterone level
NEWER use FreeT test that directly evaluates that level.
Those tests are notoriously inaccurate, and their results are highly unreliable and not repeatable from one test to the next.

NEWER use your TotalTestosterone level to judge if you have adequate T levels.

Best, use Quest Diagnostic test
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS) Code: 14966X
and aim at top of the range BAT~(575) or 10-20% higher if supplementing with T
or try to be within top 1/4 range BAT(342-575) when attempting to be natural.

second best
Use, from any laboratory,
TotalTestosterone
SHBG
Albumin

and dr Vermulen's chart
http://www.andropause.org.uk/nomo_tas.pdf
or chart on my post #41
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

On that chart you want to be FreeT(160-300)
When supplying external testosterone, you want to be FreeT(300-350)
---------

To asses your thyroid hormone levels you MUST use all these tests

T3, Total
T4, Total
T3, Free
T4,Free
T3, Reverse
Ultrasensitive TSH
Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies

When supplying thyroid hormones
DO NOT over supply T4
often it is good to skip supplementation of T4 and use T3 only at least until
TT3 and RT3 are at desirable levels for 6-9 months.

If antibodies are present, supply hormones until TSH~0.1
If antibodies are not present or below treshold, do not shutdown TSH, keep it TSH~0.5

=============================================
Eat daily 500mg Vit-B3 (with coated aspirin to help with flush)
Eat daily 8000iu drops of liquid Vit D
Eat daily 10 or more tabs of UNI-Liver
You may have low Ferritin, ideally you could raise your Hemoglobin to ~16
BUT it may get up on its own, once you get higher TT levels.

Try eating Betaine-HCL
If it is not creating heat in your stomach, eat more, up to about 4-6 tabs with each meal.
If you are able to eat it, means that you have low stomach acid.
If you do, keep eating it, helps to utilize the food that you eat.

...........

.

.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

Thanks for the feedback, JanSz.

I appreciate you taking the time to look over my results and give thought out feedback. Its like having a second opinion to be armed with when I see the MD in two hours. I'm just printing out what you said and am going to bring it in when I talk to him.

I agree that my thyroid should be looked at now more closely. I need more tests done. The same can be said about my T levels. I need SHBG levels tested.

Thanks again. I'll post what the MD had to say when I get back.

 

[JanSz]

Thanks for the feedback, JanSz.

I appreciate you taking the time to look over my results and give thought out feedback. Its like having a second opinion to be armed with when I see the MD in two hours. I'm just printing out what you said and am going to bring it in when I talk to him.

I agree that my thyroid should be looked at now more closely. I need more tests done. The same can be said about my T levels. I need SHBG levels tested.

Thanks again. I'll post what the MD had to say when I get back.

If you see this in time, look at link in previous post.
Look at post #44, page #2.

Print stuff that is between blue lines there.

As doc to sign it and make it into complete script.
That is half decent blood test.
Make appointment over internet, go to nearest Quest Diagnostic lab,
do not allow your doc to take your blood for that test.


.
.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

Doc says:

Sounds like your libido problems are all related to your relationship. You're young. You're levels are all fine.

In walks the owner of the clinic and he offers to put me on HCG and a Chrysin 10% / Progesterone 10% cream - 60G (7-9 months worth)

He's recommending that I use 500IU / week of HCG to bring up my T levels. I hadn't heard of people using less than 1000IU / week for TRT... but maybe this will do the trick?

Can anyone comment?

 

[SPR1GGAN]

If you see this in time, look at link in previous post.
Look at post #44, page #2.

Print stuff that is between blue lines there.

As doc to sign it and make it into complete script.
That is half decent blood test.
Make appointment over internet, go to nearest Quest Diagnostic lab,
do not allow your doc to take your blood for that test.

Ah piss. Too late now. Just got back from the Doc. I will have a chance to see him again in 10 weeks though. I didn't really like what the Doctor had to say. He asked me about my personal life in depth and didn't seem to give two ****s about my libido problem. He even went so far as to say that I might be getting bored of my girlfriend!

I don't feel as good as I did 10 years ago. I'm on the low-average end of the testosterone spectrum... my free T is pretty poor... my thyroid levels are a little off... and he says to take a hike. It might be time for a new MD (or preferably DO)

 

[LeanGuy]

In walks the owner of the clinic and he offers to put me on HCG and a Chrysin 10% / Progesterone 10% cream - 60G (7-9 months worth)

He's recommending that I use 500IU / week of HCG to bring up my T levels. I hadn't heard of people using less than 1000IU / week for TRT... but maybe this will do the trick?

Can anyone comment?

500iu/week is a little low, even if you respond well. I'm a good responder and take about 750iu/week now. I was doing 1000iu and my T levels spiked above 1400 (and E2 above 70)!!

I wouldn't touch progesterone cream... gave me permanent nipple gyno. It increases your estrogen receptor density. If you use HCG you'd likely need a real AI (arimidex)... it's easily obtained online.

Even though your TSH is 4, your free T3 (more important) seems ok at 3.9... kind of strange. Reverse T3 must be high?

 

[JanSz]

Post your zip code, someone may suggest doctor that is worth going to.

..

 

[SPR1GGAN]

Post your zip code, someone may suggest doctor that is worth going to.

..

Zip Code? 33612

500iu/week is a little low, even if you respond well. I'm a good responder and take about 750iu/week now. I was doing 1000iu and my T levels spiked above 1400 (and E2 above 70)!!

I wouldn't touch progesterone cream... gave me permanent nipple gyno. It increases your estrogen receptor density. If you use HCG you'd likely need a real AI (arimidex)... it's easily obtained online.

Even though your TSH is 4, your free T3 (more important) seems ok at 3.9... kind of strange. Reverse T3 must be high?

Progesterone acts to block DHEA and Estrogen conversion when used by men. Why on earth would it give you gyno?

As far as using a real AI, I can understand using an actual AI if my E2 levels are high... they aren't right now... and I don't think that 500 IU of HCG is going to spike my T very high and throw off my E2 levels... what do I know though?

 

[LeanGuy]

Progesterone acts to block DHEA and Estrogen conversion when used by men. Why on earth would it give you gyno?

Don't know, but it did... I am 99% positive. My prog ended up over the range... not a good thing.

As far as using a real AI, I can understand using an actual AI if my E2 levels are high... they aren't right now... and I don't think that 500 IU of HCG is going to spike my T very high and throw off my E2 levels... what do I know though?

Just saying HCG is famous for aromatization. I never thought I'd need an AI either because my E2 was always low.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

Don't know, but it did... I am 99% positive. My prog ended up over the range... not a good thing.



Just saying HCG is famous for aromatization. I never thought I'd need an AI either because my E2 was always low.

All this just to try and feel better? Guh.

The clinic is raving about the progesterone cream for its ability to act as a mild AI (without dropping my E2 by 98% like arimidex would). With an E2 levels in the single digits I doubt I'd be able to get it up.

Hmm... I'm left with HCG and wondering if 500 IU will be enough to get me to the BioAvailable Test range I'd like to be at... and a cream which is now reported at giving someone gyno... blah.

Here goes nothing I suppose.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

First SQ 250mg injection of HCG. I was all worked up over nothing. I watched a few youtube videos of people injecting and went off to mix and do it myself. Everything went fine. I didn't even feel the needle.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

I'm thinking that I will spread out the shots to EOD 125mg instead of 250 2x a week. It just feels more consistent... though I know HCG stays active in the body for long periods of time, so who knows... any feedback?

 

[Philec48]

You mentioned you ate a lot of healthy fats. Does that include uncooked extra-virgin olive oil? That's the best for supporting healthy HDL levels. I also read somewhere that it helps cholesterol convert to testosterone.

 

[SPR1GGAN]

You mentioned you ate a lot of healthy fats. Does that include uncooked extra-virgin olive oil? That's the best for supporting healthy HDL levels. I also read somewhere that it helps cholesterol convert to testosterone.

Olive oil? Not often enough. I do enjoy peanut oil and take 2g / day of fish oil.

I can't really find recipes that I can fit olive oil in to... unless I'm dipping bread in to it with some spices. (not often)

 

[Arbor]

Why do you need recipes for olive oil? Just take 2 to 3 tablespoons at night before bed....simple.