Doc prescribed T-gel 5grams....hmm - AnabolicMinds.com

Doc prescribed T-gel 5grams....hmm

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    Doc prescribed T-gel 5grams....hmm


    Well, my doc decided after a not very successful restart at 10 weeks of clomid, and levels as such:

    Total T - 575
    SHBG - 33
    Estradiol - 6

    ...to put me on 5g of Androgel for 4 weeks to see "how I feel".

    I asked for cypionate, but he refused, stating "its not a good idea to have the flatline levels offered by injections at your age, you need the flucuations from the short half-life by the cream"

    I'm assuming my levels are going to raise shortly, then drop rapidly back to where the are or lower, while raising my estradiol and shbg further as my endogenous T shuts down. Seems like 5g is a waste of time....whatever. This is the equivalent of 50mg. This pisses me off so much...I'm sick of beating around the bush, just give me F*cking 100mg of Test Cyp so I can see if it makes me feel any better. Not guess work with absorbtion, thyroid, dosages, endogenous shutdown etc. More waiting on labs, dosages, adjusting, etc....I don't understand, plus the shots are a crap ton cheaper.

    Any feedback welcome.

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    too bad you didnt get cypionate. pharmaceutical grade.
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    yea...really, Id expect more from a "leading doctor of the field"
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    after 10 weeks of clomid and the other stuff you've been on, why would he expect you to really benefit from gel...especially when injecting is cheaper

    you're not paying out the pocket right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpee View Post
    after 10 weeks of clomid and the other stuff you've been on, why would he expect you to really benefit from gel...especially when injecting is cheaper

    you're not paying out the pocket right?
    insurance covers somewhat, but thats besides the point. You are right, I really just don't care about the gel. I dislike needles, and have never injected myself, but I really want effectiveness and peace of mind. I don't want to even have a second thought that maybe my T levels are flucuating due to my thyroid/skin/time of day all that stupid sh*t. I'd rather shoot once per week with promised results. Maybe he will allow me to change over, and hes just giving me a trial run with gel.
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    Androgel is great 4 TRT. U need 10 grams to feel the best and get ur levels up around 800. Best of luck
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    I must have missed it? When did you find out that you needed "help".

    Last year you were running cycles, what happened?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    I must have missed it? When did you find out that you needed "help".

    Last year you were running cycles, what happened?
    I say that would be a successful restart IMO..Your dr seems to have the misconception of what success really is. If you responded that good most dr's would be happy with that. If you need more e2 look at your DHEA -s levels which could boost your e2 up and possible drive shbg making your T more bioavailable. Your dr is a moron for giving you 5 mgs of androgel because it will take you down to about 200 LOL. I have seen this in several past patients who end up coming in with low T and endos would not go higher. When in fact they first off where secondary vs primary LOL. You be a fool to go on TRT. Most natural bb that are beast have t between 500-700 with good bioavailablity.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Your doctor is right about androgel being a better form for TRT, so long as your adrenals and thyroid are fine and you absorb it well. The pattern of application and absorption, as well as test levels follow a more natural rhythm. You will have less conversion to e2 on gels, and more to DHT, which is great.

    Is he offering hCG? Your baseline levels won't fall if you're on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpDogg View Post
    Androgel is great 4 TRT. U need 10 grams to feel the best and get ur levels up around 800. Best of luck
    yup
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    he will be offerring HCG if I continue to stay on TRT.

    The reason I'm trying TRT is because my Bioavial is very low...I have very high SHBG for the average amount of Total T, and I have extremely low E2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Well, my doc decided after a not very successful restart at 10 weeks of clomid, and levels as such:

    Total T - 575
    SHBG - 33
    Estradiol - 6

    ...to put me on 5g of Androgel for 4 weeks to see "how I feel".

    I asked for cypionate, but he refused, stating "its not a good idea to have the flatline levels offered by injections at your age, you need the flucuations from the short half-life by the cream"

    I'm assuming my levels are going to raise shortly, then drop rapidly back to where the are or lower, while raising my estradiol and shbg further as my endogenous T shuts down. Seems like 5g is a waste of time....whatever. This is the equivalent of 50mg. This pisses me off so much...I'm sick of beating around the bush, just give me F*cking 100mg of Test Cyp so I can see if it makes me feel any better. Not guess work with absorbtion, thyroid, dosages, endogenous shutdown etc. More waiting on labs, dosages, adjusting, etc....I don't understand, plus the shots are a crap ton cheaper.

    Any feedback welcome.
    You have liitle high SHBG, 100mg may not be enough.

    Your E2 is very low.

    If E2 is low because you are using AI to keep it low,
    then when you would drop AI, natural TT will fall down.

    You have to figure out good plan.

    Possibly restart.
    Restart=low chance of success but requires long time commitment.

    If you decide on TRT, have to be done the correct way.
    ----------

    There are the "usual"
    adrenals/thyroid
    lipids
    insulin/glucose

    that you schould keep eye on.

    ..............

    .....
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    You have liitle high SHBG, 100mg may not be enough.

    Your E2 is very low.

    If E2 is low because you are using AI to keep it low,
    then when you would drop AI, natural TT will fall down.

    You have to figure out good plan.

    Possibly restart.
    Restart=low chance of success but requires long time commitment.

    If you decide on TRT, have to be done the correct way.
    ----------

    There are the "usual"
    adrenals/thyroid
    lipids
    insulin/glucose

    that you schould keep eye on.

    ..............

    .....
    I'm having some trouble following what you are saying.

    I'm not on an AI, and I finished up a 10 week "restart" of clomid therapy 1 month ago. These are numbers 1 month post-clomid.

    I'm not taking anything except fish oil and cissus, no AI's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I'm having some trouble following what you are saying.

    I'm not on an AI, and I finished up a 10 week "restart" of clomid therapy 1 month ago. These are numbers 1 month post-clomid.

    I'm not taking anything except fish oil and cissus, no AI's.
    You already know that there is no such a thing as trying Androgel.

    But you may want to try HCG.

    250-600iu/EOD

    Make sure that you do not stay for too long on E2=6
    May loose bones.

    Also, if you are really rather not do TRT, do nothing, wait another 4-6 months.
    After that will be decission time.

    ------------
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    When you are looking for what to test, look at my list on post #44 there.

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    Androgel is garbage, trust someone that has taken it for 2 years and now back to the same place I started with low test levels, upping the dose every year ain't going to cut it with me.

    I think all too often doctors take the easy route and instead of trying to bring back natural test levels they say screw it and give you the T-gel.

    Personally, and a lot of guys will disagree with me on here but the last thing I want to be dependent on Testosterone.
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    well, I've had levels in the 300's each month since I started testing in january. Clomid got me up to 500's but with a much higher SHBG. I do have sore joints from the low E2. I have a grade III varicocele. My doc has tried the restart protocol....

    So, its no TRT or nothing. I'd rather try out TRT and see if getting my levels up to the top of the range with balanced E2 makes me feel any different.

    I think the doc must be starting me on 50mg cream because he wants to see how I react...then he'll probably draw labs and increase the dose. I hope, that at that point, he'lll allow me to switch to injectables.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    well, I've had levels in the 300's each month since I started testing in january. Clomid got me up to 500's but with a much higher SHBG. I do have sore joints from the low E2. I have a grade III varicocele. My doc has tried the restart protocol....

    So, its no TRT or nothing. I'd rather try out TRT and see if getting my levels up to the top of the range with balanced E2 makes me feel any different.

    I think the doc must be starting me on 50mg cream because he wants to see how I react...then he'll probably draw labs and increase the dose. I hope, that at that point, he'lll allow me to switch to injectables.
    Other things being equal.............

    Use transdermal when you need to raise DHT
    Do not use transdermals when you have thyroid problems
    When using injectables, do it often, best EOD.
    Think thinnest shortest available needles, otherwise you will argue the high frequency part.
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b

    BEFORE you start using any testosterone
    start and stay on at least 250iu HCG EOD
    Sometimes that is all that you may need.

    Keep increasing size of individual HCG shot, untill you have too high E2 and think of using Arimidex.
    Do not use Arimidex, rather reduce HCG dose.
    We are talking (250-600)iu for individual shot when on EOD schedule.

    The rest you may find on my thread, link posted earlier.

    If you can arrange, start with my long list of tests.
    You may find all kind of items that would be better if they are taken care off first.

    If you would have to pay cash and do not have script,
    there is a way to get that list for less than 1/3 of the (insurance) price.

    I will have to update the post with list of tests to include those details.

    ...
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    Update:

    I've been using compounded 50mg cream every morning for the past 9 days. I haven't noticed much at all, unless I pay very close attention.

    - Maybe I have a slight increase in sex drive, it seems that erections physically pop up faster, but my physcological libido isn't much changed.
    - I sometimes feel a slight warm/alterness/dizziness sensation a few moments after application.
    - No additional pumps, strength, endurance in the gym, or energy during the day
    - Perhaps a very slight increase in cognitive function, AKA clearing of brain fog.

    Overall however, I could easily write all these things off as placeabo. Shouldn't it clearly slap me in the face if free-t actually did increase from the very rock bottom of the range to the top of the range.
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    I went on 2% cream, which would be about 20mg. for 3 months and test dropped from 750 to 419. I couldn't get in touch with my doctor, so I had to get another tube of 2%, so I am tripling the dose. Been about 2.5 weeks and I feel better, but I am going to get another testosterone test tomorrow to check. Luckily, testosterone tests only cost $22 here. I am pretty sure I will need the 10% cream, or 100 mg. per day.
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    gels suck, I tried. You also want to see a post regarding accidental contact by one of the board moderators, its pretty frightning....100 mg Cyp. is a great jumpstart. The needle just starts to slide in like butter after a couple months...cost $5.63 for 3 months worth... Hang in there man!

    Plus after a while the scent, and sticky mess really starts to be a pain in the A S S...
    Last edited by Fat6; 10-12-2009 at 07:45 PM. Reason: additional info.
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    yes, I truly wish for 150mg of Test Cyp. I just want a consistent, promised, injection of testostone. I don't want to screw around with absorbtion, cream quality, sweat, etc...

    If I must be on TRT, with the hassle in and of itself, I at least want dependable levels, hell for what its worth Id rather be slightly above the range.
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    UPDATE:

    Doc raised my T-gel to 100mg/ML. My effects began to dimish at 50mg this last week and he said the raised dosage should counteract the hpta shutdown.

    Next up is a rhein's panel urine test to assess T levels and estrogens from this 100mg dosage.

    I have HCG on order now and will start it to bring back my endogeneous after the urine test.

    Additionally, I spoke with the doctor about injections. He says unless is a giant financial concern, I should avoid injections. Its 500 shots per year in your body for the rest of your life, and its less natural delivery than the constant delivery of T-gel. He noted that if blood levels come back optimal after HCG+T-gel is stabilized, there should not be any need to increase dosage, or worry about my thyroid not responding in the future etc... Injections are only necessary if optimal levels cannot be achieved with appropriate amounts of gel.

    What do you guys think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    UPDATE:

    Doc raised my T-gel to 100mg/ML. My effects began to dimish at 50mg this last week and he said the raised dosage should counteract the hpta shutdown.

    Next up is a rhein's panel urine test to assess T levels and estrogens from this 100mg dosage.

    I have HCG on order now and will start it to bring back my endogeneous after the urine test.

    Additionally, I spoke with the doctor about injections. He says unless is a giant financial concern, I should avoid injections. Its 500 shots per year in your body for the rest of your life, and its less natural delivery than the constant delivery of T-gel. He noted that if blood levels come back optimal after HCG+T-gel is stabilized, there should not be any need to increase dosage, or worry about my thyroid not responding in the future etc... Injections are only necessary if optimal levels cannot be achieved with appropriate amounts of gel.

    What do you guys think?
    Might work for you, just keep an eye on E2 and DHT. My doc (who is a good one) doesn't trust urine tests for HRT... he says they are only useful to see how you metabolize hormones, not what your current levels are. I've done concurrent urine and serums... they don't match.
  

  
 

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