Secretropin trial

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  1. People that supplement alot of zinc will also fine there ferritin levels may drop. People supplementing high dosages of iron may deplete zinc. So again a proper balance is essential. I have seen both of these in blood tests and also intracellular testing in clinical setting. I have read several articles on nutrient interactions and these support my own observations
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Dadnatron View Post
    I am a 41 yo male physician who has noticed a gradual degredation in physical strength, gain in weight, and overall lowering of feelings of wellness.

    I have completed blood work, and per the blood work, I am the EPITOME of perfect health. I am flat middle on almost everything hormonal and LOW on all the bad that medicine typically fights on a daily basis.
    I am 69yo male, 5'9", 160#, active.
    4 years ago had LipoSarcoma removed from my left thigh.
    Size about 32oz
    Benign type as sarcomas go. No radiation, no chemo.
    Looking for a reson why I could (safely) use GH or derivatives.
    My surgeon is strongly agains it (but he is good with scalpel only, right?)
    He is a Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, Manhattan NYC.

    Some doctors work on finding optimal values for important analytes.
    Thise two presentation caught my attention.

    PC01e - Detoxification and Intracellular Nutrition in Anti-Aging
    Conference:*A4M Orlando 2009
    Speaker:*Pramod Vora,*
    Date/Time: April 23, 2009 10:00 am - 10:30 am
    Length: 27m 20s - 32 Slides****2029

    Summary of results in attachment, below;
    PC04b - Energy Deficiency & Mitochondria (Krebs Cycle)
    Conference:*A4M Orlando 2009
    Speaker:*Bill Anton, PhD, BSC(Hons)*
    Date/Time: April 23, 2009 9:00 am - 10:00 am
    Length: 44m 10s - 85 Slides

    Summary of results in attachment, below;

    My own (JanSz) Goals

    DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL(13.55-17.34)Ámol/L------------------major player, 95% time overlooked
    Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL)
    Estradiol, Ultrasensitive(25-29)pg/mL
    Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
    do not use Anastrozole if possible or minimize its use
    BATest(342, 460-575)ng/dL------------stay around 342 if you need more than 1.5mg/week Anastrozole to control E2
    DHT(60-90)ng/dL (I am active when it gets over or under this range)
    TotalT3 in upper 1/3 range (June09 LEF magazine)
    FreeT3~400pg/dL or higher if TotalT3 goal not reached, but not higher than 450
    TotalT4>bottom of range
    FreeT4 rather low, do not know (yet) how low
    Oral temperature (36.25 - 36.80)C = (97.25 - 98.24)F (no sinus or oral infections)
    I use this script for my yearly checkups.
    (please comment, suggest changes, if you are so inclined)

    1 --------- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel w/EGFR
    2 --------- CBC w/ diff/PLT
    3 --------- VAP TM Cholesterol Test
    4 --------- Iodine
    5 --------- iodide
    6 --------- Selenium
    7 --------- Copper, serum
    8 --------- Zinc
    9 --------- Magnesium
    10 --------- Phosphate
    11 --------- C-Reactive Protein (CRP), Highly Sensitive, CSF
    12 --------- Fibrinogen
    13 --------- Homocysteine, cardio
    14 --------- Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
    15 --------- Iron and Iron Binding Capacity
    16 --------- Iron, Total
    17 --------- Ferritin
    18 --------- Transferrin
    19 --------- Folate, RBC & Hematocrit
    20 --------- Hemoglobin A1c
    21 --------- Hemoglobin, Plasma
    22 --------- VITAMIN A, E, B3, B12
    23 --------- Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy
    24 --------- T3, Total
    25 --------- T4, Total
    26 --------- T3, Free
    27 --------- T4,Free
    28 --------- T3, Reverse
    29 --------- Ultrasensitive TSH
    30 --------- Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies
    31 --------- Insuline, serum
    32 --------- IGF Binding protein-3
    33 --------- IGF-1
    34 --------- DHEA Sulfate
    35 --------- Aldosterone
    36 --------- Renin Activity, Plasma
    37 --------- ACTH, Plasma
    38 --------- Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin)
    39 --------- 8AM/4PM/10PM---Cortisol, Free and Total
    40 --------- Prolactin
    41 --------- Progesterone
    42 --------- Pregnenolone
    43 --------- Androstenedione
    44 --------- Estradiol, sensitive
    45 --------- Estrone
    46 --------- Total Testosterone
    47 --------- SHBG
    48 --------- Albumin
    49 --------- Dihydrotestosterone
    50 --------- 3a-Androstanediol Glucuronide
    51 --------- Ceruloplasmin
    52 --------- Coenzyme Q10
    244.9 ----- 257.2 ----- 780.79
    250.00 ----- 272.4 ----- 788.41
    250.01 ----- 601.9 ----- 253.3
    255.4 ----- 780.4 ----- 255.8
    783.9 -----

    Attached Images Attached Images   


    Man am I ever HUNGRY !!!

    I don't know if it is psychosomatic, from working out harder, time of the month or WHAT... but I have noticed a significant increase in my hunger level over the last few days.

    I began Secretropin on Wed. Night, Night before 10/01 GH pulse. Since Saturday afternoon, I have been hungry and seems to only get worse. I did not have this pressure before Secretropin. I have read that GHRPs can cause hunger for about 2 weeks.

    Anyone ever heard of appetite increase with Secretropin? This is the first of any type of medication/secretogue/analog I have ever used. It seems pretty early to be having this significant of an effect, however, it is here none the less. I broke down with my son, and we ordered pizza last night. That after I had a chicken breast and broccoli for lunch... heh

    Got keep hold of the wagon... even when I get bumped off. I am hoping that my body will adjust soon, or I am going to have to do something to control this better.

  4. Mucuna puriens is a known appetite stimulant.

    This is how they list the ingredients: Active Ingredients: Pyroglutamine,L-Glutamine, L-Arginine, L-Lysine, L-Valine,L-Tyrosine Alpha-ketoglutarate, L-Ornithine, L-al****lycerlphosphoryl-choline, Gamma Amino Butyric Acid(GABA), and Mucina pruriens.

    Other Ingredients: Deionized water, Lecithin, Phospholipids, Sodium citrate, Citric acid, Maltodextrin, Potassium sorbate, Artificial color and Flavour.
    Each two(2) sprays delivers 300mg of the proprietary blend of the active ingredients.

    I'm a little put off by the fact they cant spell the ingredients right. If they cant put the proper letters in the right order, how can I trust their compounding abilities? This product is similar to other products that have come and gone. They stimulate dopamine release which stimulates gh release. You need around 200- 500mgs l-dopa to illicit a response, but there are only 300mgs of total ingredients. Insulin-dependents and the obese demonstrate zero to minimal response. This is nothing new. It works for some people.
    Not trying to piss on your party, but I dont understand why there are two Doctors on here pushing a product that is really a polished up version of something that has been around for a while.

  5. Who is pushing???

  6. I just can't get over the name... Even if it works, going to my doc and asking for a script for secret-tropin is like asking for condoms in front of your mom. You just don't feel right eventhough you're doing the right thing lol

  7. 2 week checkin

    Urine GH is still pending. It was just ran yesterday... all labs I have found run it only once a month.

    E2 came back 22 (< 29)

    Physically, whether placebo or real, I have noticed that my recovery from workouts has improved rather dramatically in the last few days. I have been working harder and notice less intense and diminished length in my recovery of the worked muscle group. If this keeps up, I will be reinstituting a twice a week workout plan.

    Sleeping pretty soundly, although I have a 16 yo and have had him on my mind a night or two. But overall, maybe a bit better. I get up at 4:30 now to go to the gym, so I am hitting the sack about 9pm each night.

    My hunger is certainly still there, but maybe a little less pronounced. I have bumped calorie intake a bit... mostly because I have an incredible wife who cooks like a 5 star chef, and I can't bring myself to cut out everything. So suppers remain a test, while daytime is easy, although I am sometimes really ready for lunch by the time it arrives.

  8. Just received Urine GH results prior to Secretropin.

    Given that this is a 'questionable' test in that Dr. C believes there is only a single source with appropriate/believable results AND that there is questions concerning the efficacy and 'normal' levels to begin with, I recognize the results are not rock solid. However, they are what I have thus far.

    Esoterix lab

    24hr Urine vol: 5350

    GH/Cr: 2.2 ng/g (0.2 - 14.8)

    GH 24hr: 5.3 ng/24hr

    Cr 24hr: 2399 mg/24hr (800 - 2000)
    Cr/Urine: 41 mg/dL

    I am sending the next sample to both Esoterix and Rhein labs for comparison.

    The creatinine level appears high, but I have been maintaining a high protein diet with intense weighlifting. My creatinine clearance is normal. My BUN and Total Cr would seem to be excessive, however, I am obviously NOT dehydrated given the volume and my GFR is normal. The relatively 'elevated' levels are merely associated with diet and intense exercise.

    Est GFR:107

    John, I know you don't put much stock in any lab other than Rhein. However, can you give any thoughts on the GH level compared to what you have been seeing and treating? I have found a wide range of 'normal' levels.


  9. One month labs...

    Somewhat disappointing given that I have diminished Test and Increased Estradiol. I am using 2 pumps AM and 6 pumps PM. I will maintain for one more month and see what happens. Only thing different for the month has been the Secretropin, Multi-Vit, and Zinc.

    Urine GH is pending
    DHT is pending

    Baseline / 1 month

    IGF-1 188 / 202 (91-246)
    IGFBP-3 3.5 / 4.1 (3.3-6.7)
    Test, tot 557 / 495 (250-1100)
    Test, Free 94 / 82.2 (35-155)
    DHT 44 / (P) (25-75)

    Estradiol us 22 / 46 (<29)
    Uring GH, 24H (P)

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Dadnatron View Post
    One month labs...

    Somewhat disappointing given that I have diminished Test and Increased Estradiol. I am using 2 pumps AM and 6 pumps PM. I will maintain for one more month and see what happens. Only thing different for the month has been the Secretropin, Multi-Vit, and Zinc.

    Urine GH is pending
    DHT is pending

    Baseline / 1 month

    IGF-1 188 / 202 (91-246)
    IGFBP-3 3.5 / 4.1 (3.3-6.7)
    Test, tot 557 / 495 (250-1100)
    Test, Free 94 / 82.2 (35-155)
    DHT 44 / (P) (25-75)

    Estradiol us 22 / 46 (<29)
    Uring GH, 24H (P)
    I'm not sure why it would have any effect on your sex hormones, although I've read higher levels of testosterone will boost IGF-1. Did you draw the same time of the day? My testosterone levels are higher around 7 to 8 in the morning.

    Your IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 look promising - especially for the first month. Also, the fact that your recovery is enhanced and you feel better should count for something.

  11. Just got DHT back...

    Labs were drawn within 1hr of each other. At approximately 8-9am both draws. Both on a non-workout day.

    DHT 44/52 (25-75)

    Yes... my recovery is better, but I am not entirely sure it isn't continued conditioning and placebo. HOWEVER, I am not looking a gift horse in the mouth.

    On Gordon's patients, it seemed that alot of people who weighed over 200 lbs did far less well than those who weighed significantly less. In fact, if you look at his charts... you can see that the ones who weighed the most were the same ones who typically had considerable detrimental effect of the medication ie decreased IGF/Test.

    I agree, it isn't directly related to testosterone, however, it is clear on his data that testosterone typically increased along with IGF-1/IGFBP-3 or decreased on those who did not respond.

    I am giving it another month though. I am hopeful, because there certainly couldn't be an EASIER form hormonal manipulation, than spraying something under your tongue.

  12. Is it true if your on Testosterone meds, Cortef HC, Thyroid, Florinef and Iron your IGF-1 lab levels will show higher then they are.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    Sprinolactone blocks DHT receptors. This was discovered when some patients using it as a potassium-sparing diuretic (it's intended use) developed gynocomastia.

    It seems to work very well for most, especially when mixed into a Rx-strength ketoconozole. Incorporating a liposomal delivery system that speeds it to the hair root enhances performance. Have your friendly compounding pharmacy make some up for you.
    I have been wondering about this shampoo combination. I understand that you, Dr. Crisler, have it made by a compounder for your patients. That's good of you. Cutting edge as usual.

    I was wondering if anyone can recommend how to home brew it? While I appreciate that it may not be the most efficient delivery system, but I was thinking about just grinding up some pills and mixing them with the shampoo, to try out on my rats. Can anyone suggest how many milligrams to mix with a 120 ml bottle of shampoo.

    I would try mixing with Minoxidil, but I understand it makes for a stinky compound.

    Thanks in advance for any help. And sorry if this is viewed as a highjack. I can start another thread if others are interested.

  14. 2 Months of Secretropin with approximately 90% accuracy/compliance with dosing.

    IGF-1 is up about 30%.

    Testosterone is down approximately 40%. This might be due to support, and will address this over the next couple of months. This is concerning, and unexpected.

    Currently, I have taken Secretropin for 3 months. However, I have not done labs for this month. I am unsure if I will, or wait for another month or two. This will depend on whether I support testosterone differently. I have thus far not decided on a course of action.

    But what I can say is that given the IGF-1/IGFBP-3 levels... the 2 - AM and 4 - PM sprays are working as billed.

    Not all labs were drawn at each 'draw' ie some only on last draw (12/10) others skipped 11/03 draw.

    9/15 (Baseline)... 11/03....................12/10...................

    DHEA-s - 190 ........... - ........... 166 (44 - 345)

    E2 (US) - 22 ........... 46 ........... 26 (<29)

    SHBG - - ............ - ........... 24 (7 - 50)

    IGF-1 - 188 .......... 202 ............ 258 (86 - 220)

    IGFBP-3 - 3.5 .......... 4.1 ........... 4.4 (3.3 - 6.7)

    Test tot - 557 .......... 495 .......... 329 (250-1100)

    Test Free - 94.1 .......... 82.2 .......... 52.3 (35 - 155)

    - bioavail - - .......... - .......... 107.6 (110 - 575)

    DHT - 44 .......... 52 .......... 52 (25 - 75)

    FSH - .......... - .......... 4.9 (1.6 - 8.0)

    LH - .......... - .......... 6.8 (1.5 - 9.3)

  15. I am Hypopituitary and for the last 7 yrs my Dr.'s have told me I need HGH I read about the sides and did not want to try it. I have been on TRT over 27 yrs 23 of them I was told I am Primary.

    Well a yr. ago last Nov. I had to have Heart Bypass Sugary and it when bad. I had to be opened up 5 tims and each time they had to leave me open until blood thinners got out of my body.

    I died 5 times 3 of them I came back before they could shock me back.

    My Heart Dr. told me he feels my heart was bad do to the low Growth Hormones I had over the yrs. You can read my story at this link and the heart update.

    I have helped men and women on forums for yrs. men with low T and women with Adreanls and Thyroud problems.

    I started on Humatrope 6mg Pen doing .3 mgs shots per day been on it for 4 weeks now.

    After 3 shots I had to go in for labs on my testosterone levels.

    My IGF-1 before HGH was 130 just doing 3 shots I am up over the top of the range for my age 262 top is 228 my Dr. told me I must be in bad need of this to go up this fast.

    My Thyroid went up to high I needed to lower my Armour meds. And my DHT shot up to 2x's above the top of the range. All the rest of my labs were good like all ways.

    One problem I had was doing the HGH shot at bed time my sugary dropped to low by morning this feels like crap.

    I had to do some thing to fix this even eating before going to be did not help. I had this problem before but after treating my low Adrenals with Cortef this stopped.

    So I now do the shot in the morning this helped a lot and I take 2.5 mgs of corter at bedtime. So now all is great.


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