clomid question

[charliebizz]

does anybody know how long after you start taking clomid say 50-100mgs a day should it take before you feel the effects.also what kinds of things happened when you took it example better mood or libido or anything of that nature

 

[DavesNotHere]

Couple days or so. Makes my wife's life hell while Im on it. Turns me into a moody b!tch. Kills my libido. Not a lot of fun at all.
Enjoy!

 

[charliebizz]

Couple days or so. Makes my wife's life hell while Im on it. Turns me into a moody b!tch. Kills my libido. Not a lot of fun at all.
Enjoy!

**** i thought its sopposed to make you feel better.my hypogonadism came about naturally still dont know why. wonder if it effects people different when its natural vs pct.not saying thats why you took it dave just wondering

 

[DavesNotHere]

Theres a substantial percentage that have these kinds of side-effects. Odds are you wont get these sides, but you wont know till you try.
I've used for PCT, on cruise, and stand alone with the same sides.

 

[charliebizz]

Theres a substantial percentage that have these kinds of side-effects. Odds are you wont get these sides, but you wont know till you try.
I've used for PCT, on cruise, and stand alone with the same sides.

im hoping i dont but we will see.hopefully this gets me restarted

 

[charliebizz]

Theres a substantial percentage that have these kinds of side-effects. Odds are you wont get these sides, but you wont know till you try.
I've used for PCT, on cruise, and stand alone with the same sides.

im on day 6 now. my energy levels are **** mild, depression has occured,libido is dead, and i havent felt any positive effects of it....are u sopposed to feel anybetter when you are on it if your t levels are rising?or is it the lack of estrogen that makes you feel like crap.

also would lowering the dose get ride of some of the sides my doc has me on a pretty high does of 100mgs per day im thinking of cutting it to 50 but not sure.

 

[charliebizz]

also ive heard of people getting moody and emotional problems but not really heard anyone ever talk about fatigue. i dont even wanna move off the couch since i started taking clomid does anyone have an idea if this could be normal :cussing:

 

[DavesNotHere]

Never had any fatigue, could be due to depression.
Lowering the dose should lessen the sides, but they wont dissapear most likely.
You could ask your Dr about Nolvadex. It's just as effective, and more potent than Clomid with less sides. Most Docs arent open to Nolva therapy, but you could get lucky.

Another option is Proviron. Doc wont prescribe so you have to get it by other means. Should raise your energy levels back up and will definately increase your libido.
If it were me, I'd run Clomid/Proviron @25-50mgs/ and 25-75mgs SID.

The reason you feel crappy is not due to lack of estrogen. Clomid IS an estrogen. It just blocks the receptors in the breasts. At 100mgs, you are FULL OF ESTROGEN by now.

 

[charliebizz]

Never had any fatigue, could be due to depression.
Lowering the dose should lessen the sides, but they wont dissapear most likely.
You could ask your Dr about Nolvadex. It's just as effective, and more potent than Clomid with less sides. Most Docs arent open to Nolva therapy, but you could get lucky.

Another option is Proviron. Doc wont prescribe so you have to get it by other means. Should raise your energy levels back up and will definately increase your libido.
If it were me, I'd run Clomid/Proviron @25-50mgs/ and 25-75mgs SID.

The reason you feel crappy is not due to lack of estrogen. Clomid IS an estrogen. It just blocks the receptors in the breasts. At 100mgs, you are FULL OF ESTROGEN by now.

thanks dave for clearing that up is there positives i should look for like ejaculatory volume feelings in the testes or anything like that..

whats killing me is i have no drive to workout right now and when i do everything feels heavy and i feel real slow.

 

[DavesNotHere]

Ejaculatory volume should increase as well as testicle size.

 

[charliebizz]

Ejaculatory volume should increase as well as testicle size.

well nothing has changed for me i dont know how it couldnt work for me.my pituitary scan came back good my lh is 1.4 one would believe that i was secondary.i wonder if being hypo thyroid and having adrenal fatigue are playing a part in it

 

[DavesNotHere]

Did the Dr test your thyroid before giving you clomid? If your thyroid is low, clomid wont help, but getting your thyroid levels in range would be the place to start. All clomid is doing is raise your LH levels, but with low thyroid, your testes dont respond to LH like they should.

I cant recommend Proviron enough at this point. Do you suffer from DHT problems like baldness or prostate issues? This would be the only reason not to use it, or unless you DONT wanna feel like your 21 again...

 

[DavesNotHere]

Something I found

A. Wayne Meikle
Division of Endocrinology, University of Utah School of Medicine, Endocrine Testing Laboratory ARUP, Salt Lake City, Utah
Thyroid hormone deficiency affects all tissues of the body, including multiple endocrine changes that alter growth hormone, corticotrophin, glucocorticoids, and gonadal function. Primary hypothyroidism is associated with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is reversible with thyroid hormone replacement therapy. In male children follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is elevated and associated with testicular enlargement without virilization. Men with primary hypothyroidism have subnormal responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) administration and normal response to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations. In men with primary hypothyroidism, prolactin is not consistently elevated (except in men and children with longstanding severe primary hypothyroidism), but prolactin declines following thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Thyroid hormone is known to affect sex hormone-binding hormonal globulin (SHBG) concentrations. Men with hyperthyroidism have elevated concentrations of testosterone and SHBG. Thyroid hormone therapy in normal men may also duplicate this elevation. In addition estradiol elevations are observed in men with hyperthyroidism, and gynecomastia is common in them as well. In contrast to patients with primary hypothyroidism, men with hyperthyroidism exhibit hyperresponsiveness of LH to GnRH administration and subnormal responses to hCG. Radioactive iodine therapy (RAI) of men treated for thyroid cancer produces a dose-dependent impairment of spermatogenesis and elevation of FSH up to approximately 2 years. Permanent testicular germ cell damage may occur in men treated with high doses of RAI. RAI commonly increases serum concentrations of FSH and LH while reducing inhibin B levels without affecting serum concentrations of testosterone. Thus, radioiodine therapy transiently impairs both germinal and Leydig cell function that usually recover by 18 months posttherapy

 

[charliebizz]

Something I found

A. Wayne Meikle
Division of Endocrinology, University of Utah School of Medicine, Endocrine Testing Laboratory ARUP, Salt Lake City, Utah
Thyroid hormone deficiency affects all tissues of the body, including multiple endocrine changes that alter growth hormone, corticotrophin, glucocorticoids, and gonadal function. Primary hypothyroidism is associated with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is reversible with thyroid hormone replacement therapy. In male children follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is elevated and associated with testicular enlargement without virilization. Men with primary hypothyroidism have subnormal responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) administration and normal response to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations. In men with primary hypothyroidism, prolactin is not consistently elevated (except in men and children with longstanding severe primary hypothyroidism), but prolactin declines following thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Thyroid hormone is known to affect sex hormone-binding hormonal globulin (SHBG) concentrations. Men with hyperthyroidism have elevated concentrations of testosterone and SHBG. Thyroid hormone therapy in normal men may also duplicate this elevation. In addition estradiol elevations are observed in men with hyperthyroidism, and gynecomastia is common in them as well. In contrast to patients with primary hypothyroidism, men with hyperthyroidism exhibit hyperresponsiveness of LH to GnRH administration and subnormal responses to hCG. Radioactive iodine therapy (RAI) of men treated for thyroid cancer produces a dose-dependent impairment of spermatogenesis and elevation of FSH up to approximately 2 years. Permanent testicular germ cell damage may occur in men treated with high doses of RAI. RAI commonly increases serum concentrations of FSH and LH while reducing inhibin B levels without affecting serum concentrations of testosterone. Thus, radioiodine therapy transiently impairs both germinal and Leydig cell function that usually recover by 18 months posttherapy

dude i cant thank you enough for this great info. to be honest with you me and my doc were just waiting on my adrenal test to come back before starting thyroid meds.looks like im going to need some adrenal support so wednesday my doc with put me on adrenal meds and thyroid meds and then hopefully the t will increase on the clomid. for now he cut me back to 50mgs every other day till i get my throid going.

 

[DavesNotHere]

I hope it works out for you

 

[charliebizz]

I hope it works out for you

well ive been on a 1/4 grain of compounded armour for 2 weeks and just started 15mgs of cortef and i still feel terrible.but on a good not my libido is pretty good morning spontanious and nocturnal erections.and also had 2 nocturnal emmisions since starting the clomid. i just dont understand why makes me so fatigued.and i only take 50mgs of clomid eod

 

[charliebizz]

well ive been on a 1/4 grain of compounded armour for 2 weeks and just started 15mgs of cortef and i still feel terrible.but on a good not my libido is pretty good morning spontanious and nocturnal erections.and also had 2 nocturnal emmisions since starting the clomid. i just dont understand why makes me so fatigued.and i only take 50mgs of clomid eod

and ive also have had alot of trouble lifting.everything feels so heavy ive gone down in some lifts and also have no motavation to lift. i would have expected the opposite especially since ive been having some of the positives from taking it this is really starting to get to me

 

[PumpDogg]

I have used clomid off and on for years and only noticed it made me edgy sometimes. Other than that everything works perfect and always returned me to normal @ 50mgs/day for a month, then stop cold!!

 

[RavensFan2k3]

well nothing has changed for me i dont know how it couldnt work for me.my pituitary scan came back good my lh is 1.4 one would believe that i was secondary.i wonder if being hypo thyroid and having adrenal fatigue are playing a part in it

how do you know you're hypo with your thyroid and adrenal glands? what were your thyroid(all of them, or the ones that got tested), cortisol, and DHEA numbers?

and you're LH came back at 1.4...what was the range?

 

[RavensFan2k3]

Something I found

A. Wayne Meikle
Division of Endocrinology, University of Utah School of Medicine, Endocrine Testing Laboratory ARUP, Salt Lake City, Utah
Thyroid hormone deficiency affects all tissues of the body, including multiple endocrine changes that alter growth hormone, corticotrophin, glucocorticoids, and gonadal function. Primary hypothyroidism is associated with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is reversible with thyroid hormone replacement therapy. In male children follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is elevated and associated with testicular enlargement without virilization. Men with primary hypothyroidism have subnormal responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) administration and normal response to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations. In men with primary hypothyroidism, prolactin is not consistently elevated (except in men and children with longstanding severe primary hypothyroidism), but prolactin declines following thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Thyroid hormone is known to affect sex hormone-binding hormonal globulin (SHBG) concentrations. Men with hyperthyroidism have elevated concentrations of testosterone and SHBG. Thyroid hormone therapy in normal men may also duplicate this elevation. In addition estradiol elevations are observed in men with hyperthyroidism, and gynecomastia is common in them as well. In contrast to patients with primary hypothyroidism, men with hyperthyroidism exhibit hyperresponsiveness of LH to GnRH administration and subnormal responses to hCG. Radioactive iodine therapy (RAI) of men treated for thyroid cancer produces a dose-dependent impairment of spermatogenesis and elevation of FSH up to approximately 2 years. Permanent testicular germ cell damage may occur in men treated with high doses of RAI. RAI commonly increases serum concentrations of FSH and LH while reducing inhibin B levels without affecting serum concentrations of testosterone. Thus, radioiodine therapy transiently impairs both germinal and Leydig cell function that usually recover by 18 months posttherapy

Did the Dr test your thyroid before giving you clomid? If your thyroid is low, clomid wont help, but getting your thyroid levels in range would be the place to start. All clomid is doing is raise your LH levels, but with low thyroid, your testes dont respond to LH like they should.

I cant recommend Proviron enough at this point. Do you suffer from DHT problems like baldness or prostate issues? This would be the only reason not to use it, or unless you DONT wanna feel like your 21 again...

hey according to what you posted above, it's not that your testis lose responsiveness to LH its that your LH(pituitary gland) loses responsiveness to GnRH. Unless you saw that somewhere else. Also what is considered too low of a thyroid function to the point that it is considered hypothyroidism?

 

[charliebizz]

how do you know you're hypo with your thyroid and adrenal glands? what were your thyroid(all of them, or the ones that got tested), cortisol, and DHEA numbers?

and you're LH came back at 1.4...what was the range?

tsh 2.13------------>0.40-4.50miu/l
t4total 7.7---------->6.5-12.5ug/dl
t4 free calculated 2.7--------->0.4-3.8ng/dl
t4 free direct dailysis1.5------>0.8-2.7

t3 free tracer dialysis
free t3 dialysis 261------------>210-448pg/il
t3 total 100------------------->97-219ng/dl

t3uptake 35--------------->33-35%
t3,total 66-------->97-219 ng/dl
thyroid peroxidase ab <10-------->35 iu/ml
thyroglobulin ab<20--------->20iu ml

testosterone220------>241-827 ng/dl
testosterone free 31.4----->46.0-2241.0pg/ml
bioavailable testosterone 67.2----->110.0-575.0ng/dl
dihydrotestosterone 24------------->25-75 ng/dl
shbg 27---------------------------->7-49nmol
albumin serum 47-----------------------> 3.6-5.1 g/
growth hormone-- 0.6------------------->....<10.0 ng/ml
Lh 1.4---------------------------------->1.5-9.3
fsh 3.5---------------------------------->1.6-8.0miu/ml
prolactin 6------------------------------->2.0-18ng/ml
cortisol total serum 14.1------------------>am 4.0-22.0----pm 3.0-17.0
psa total .35-------------------------------<=4.0 ng/ml
igf-1 254--------------------------------->126-382 ng/ml all of these numbers were taken in february before starting any meds.my cortisol result were good from 7-9am then low normal 11am-1pm then then 3-5pm and 10-12 were low dheas was 281--- 70-325ug/dl

 

[RavensFan2k3]

your thyroid defnitely is your problem man...hopefully you can get that situated

 

[charliebizz]

your thyroid defnitely is your problem man...hopefully you can get that situated

now that i think of it when i first started clomid it was 100mgs a day and i felt horrible but then i backed it off and felt ok but i also added in the armour soon after and i think that may be the culprit. i really think my rt3 is going through the roof and causing this extreme fatigue.im gonna have to bite the bullet and pay otta pocket for labs to see where im at.then maybe the doc will give me just t-3

 

[RavensFan2k3]

i'm in the same situation as you, IDK if you've seen my thread. I have low test, my TSH is lower than yours and my T4 is higher, but my T3 is low too. The biggest different we have is that my LH and FSH or normal while my prolactin is high...ugh, I dont even know what to do

also at what level is someone considered to have hypothyroidism?

 

[monsterbox]

if anyone in the world would have side effects to anything, it would be me 100% of the time.

I took clomid 25mg/day for 10 weeks. I was EXTREMELY worried about sides as I already felt terrible and nolvadex made me nearly suicidal lol.

I felt really good....I slept like a rock, increased sex drive, joints felt better, I felt larger (possibly from the zuclomid estrogenic activity), ocassional mood swings.

It took my T from 300's to 575....sadly not enough considering my high SHBG, but remarkably effective.

Give it a try...you'll notice effects by the first week.

 

[DavesNotHere]

well ive been on a 1/4 grain of compounded armour for 2 weeks and just started 15mgs of cortef and i still feel terrible.but on a good not my libido is pretty good morning spontanious and nocturnal erections.and also had 2 nocturnal emmisions since starting the clomid. i just dont understand why makes me so fatigued.and i only take 50mgs of clomid eod

It's just how you respond to the clomid. Im the same way, as are a lot of others.

 

[DavesNotHere]

and ive also have had alot of trouble lifting.everything feels so heavy ive gone down in some lifts and also have no motavation to lift. i would have expected the opposite especially since ive been having some of the positives from taking it this is really starting to get to me

your DHT is below range. This is why I recommended proviron...and still do.

Get your DHT up and aggression will return.

Here's a little about PV:

COMPOSITION
1 tablet contains mesterolone (17beta-hydroxy-1alpha-methyl-5alpha-androstan-3-one) 25 mg and the preservatives methylparaben (0,02%) and propylparaben (0,01%).

PHARMACOLOGICAL CLASSIFICATION
A. 21.7 Male sex hormones.

PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION
Proviron balances a deficiency of androgen formation which begins to fall gradually with increasing age. Therefore, Proviron is suitable for treatment of all conditions caused by deficient endogenous androgen formation. In the recommended therapeutic dosage, Proviron will not impair spermatogenesis. Proviron is especially well tolerated by the liver.

INDICATIONS
• Declining physical activity and mental alertness in middle- and old-aged men
Reduced efficiency, easy fatigability, lack of concentration, weak memory, disturbances of libido and potency, irritability, disturbances of sleep, depressive moods, and general vegetative complaints are often attributed to androgen-deficiency. These complaints can be overcome or improved by the use of Proviron tablets.
• Potency disturbances
Proviron overcomes potency disturbances due to androgen-deficiency. It may also be of use as supplementary therapy in cases of diminished potency where androgen-deficiency is not the primary cause.
• Hypogonadism
Growth, development and function of androgen-dependent target organs are stimulated by Proviron. It promotes development of secondary male sex characteristics in cases of prepuberal hypogonadism. Full clinical and laboratory investigations are necessary in all cases of young patients prior to commencement of treatment. Proviron tablets may also be used as a substitution therapy in cases where a loss of gonadal function has occurred post-puberally.
• Infertility
Oligozoospermia and deficient Leydig-cell secretion may be the cause of infertility. With Proviron treatment, sperm count can be increased, the quality improved and, furthermore, a higher fructose concentration up to normal values can be achieved thus increasing the chances of procreation.

CONTRA-INDICATIONS
In patients with carcinoma of the prostate, androgen therapy of any kind, including the use of Proviron, is contra-indicated.

 

[RavensFan2k3]

Right, my bad...LH response to is actually increased, there's just not enough.

If TSH > 3 you could be hypo, but m9ight not be.
If T4 < 4.5 you prob are hypo.
T3 < 80, etc
Then they could also look at free T...

hold on, i'm confused. do you mean decreased?

your DHT is below range. This is why I recommended proviron...and still do.

Get your DHT up and aggression will return.

Here's a little about PV:

COMPOSITION
1 tablet contains mesterolone (17beta-hydroxy-1alpha-methyl-5alpha-androstan-3-one) 25 mg and the preservatives methylparaben (0,02%) and propylparaben (0,01%).

PHARMACOLOGICAL CLASSIFICATION
A. 21.7 Male sex hormones.

PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION
Proviron balances a deficiency of androgen formation which begins to fall gradually with increasing age. Therefore, Proviron is suitable for treatment of all conditions caused by deficient endogenous androgen formation. In the recommended therapeutic dosage, Proviron will not impair spermatogenesis. Proviron is especially well tolerated by the liver.

INDICATIONS
• Declining physical activity and mental alertness in middle- and old-aged men
Reduced efficiency, easy fatigability, lack of concentration, weak memory, disturbances of libido and potency, irritability, disturbances of sleep, depressive moods, and general vegetative complaints are often attributed to androgen-deficiency. These complaints can be overcome or improved by the use of Proviron tablets.
• Potency disturbances
Proviron overcomes potency disturbances due to androgen-deficiency. It may also be of use as supplementary therapy in cases of diminished potency where androgen-deficiency is not the primary cause.
• Hypogonadism
Growth, development and function of androgen-dependent target organs are stimulated by Proviron. It promotes development of secondary male sex characteristics in cases of prepuberal hypogonadism. Full clinical and laboratory investigations are necessary in all cases of young patients prior to commencement of treatment. Proviron tablets may also be used as a substitution therapy in cases where a loss of gonadal function has occurred post-puberally.
• Infertility
Oligozoospermia and deficient Leydig-cell secretion may be the cause of infertility. With Proviron treatment, sperm count can be increased, the quality improved and, furthermore, a higher fructose concentration up to normal values can be achieved thus increasing the chances of procreation.

CONTRA-INDICATIONS
In patients with carcinoma of the prostate, androgen therapy of any kind, including the use of Proviron, is contra-indicated.

i thought proviron increases free test by binding to SHBG? Or does it binding to SHBG also increase DHT?

 

[charliebizz]

It's just how you respond to the clomid. Im the same way, as are a lot of others.

i thoght u didnt get fatigue from it

 

[charliebizz]

your DHT is below range. This is why I recommended proviron...and still do.

Get your DHT up and aggression will return.

Here's a little about PV:

COMPOSITION
1 tablet contains mesterolone (17beta-hydroxy-1alpha-methyl-5alpha-androstan-3-one) 25 mg and the preservatives methylparaben (0,02%) and propylparaben (0,01%).

PHARMACOLOGICAL CLASSIFICATION
A. 21.7 Male sex hormones.

PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION
Proviron balances a deficiency of androgen formation which begins to fall gradually with increasing age. Therefore, Proviron is suitable for treatment of all conditions caused by deficient endogenous androgen formation. In the recommended therapeutic dosage, Proviron will not impair spermatogenesis. Proviron is especially well tolerated by the liver.

INDICATIONS
• Declining physical activity and mental alertness in middle- and old-aged men
Reduced efficiency, easy fatigability, lack of concentration, weak memory, disturbances of libido and potency, irritability, disturbances of sleep, depressive moods, and general vegetative complaints are often attributed to androgen-deficiency. These complaints can be overcome or improved by the use of Proviron tablets.
• Potency disturbances
Proviron overcomes potency disturbances due to androgen-deficiency. It may also be of use as supplementary therapy in cases of diminished potency where androgen-deficiency is not the primary cause.
• Hypogonadism
Growth, development and function of androgen-dependent target organs are stimulated by Proviron. It promotes development of secondary male sex characteristics in cases of prepuberal hypogonadism. Full clinical and laboratory investigations are necessary in all cases of young patients prior to commencement of treatment. Proviron tablets may also be used as a substitution therapy in cases where a loss of gonadal function has occurred post-puberally.
• Infertility
Oligozoospermia and deficient Leydig-cell secretion may be the cause of infertility. With Proviron treatment, sperm count can be increased, the quality improved and, furthermore, a higher fructose concentration up to normal values can be achieved thus increasing the chances of procreation.

CONTRA-INDICATIONS
In patients with carcinoma of the prostate, androgen therapy of any kind, including the use of Proviron, is contra-indicated.

i will def run it by my doc. thanks for your time