Test-E - Needle Gauge

[Want2Grow]

So for the past few months I have been self injecting test-e. My doctor was kind enough to explain the process, but then didn't give me any advice on needles.

Well the pharmacy is absolutely worthless when it comes to know what needle length and gauge to use.

So I've been going about this trial and error and am curious as to what everyone else is using.

What I have decided on is using a 21gauge needle to draw with and a 25gauge 1.5inch for injection.

The 25g needle takes awhile to inject with as I'm really having to push to get it out of the syringe.

I've been thinking of going to a 23g needle, but I have to say the 25g really slides in nice and easy. Part of that I think is due to using a different needle to draw up the test-e with so I'm not dulling the tip on the one used for injection.

Anyway, just curious as to what everyone else is using.

Thanks!

 

[tnubs]

I totally forgot what i used, but i had to switch mid way through my cycle. I ended up using a guage that took like a solid 2 minutes to suck up a mL cuz it was too small, but when i injected, it left no mark and i couldnt even feel it. I never bothered with switching the needle to draw and then a new one to inject. I think it might have been a 25 i was using. it was difficult to inject cuz there was so much backpressure trying to push such thick oil through a tiny hole.

just curious, when u pull the needle out, does some of the oil ever come back out? i had that problem. id leave it in there for a min after. duno whats the best way, but it worked most of the time.

 

[longrob]

Check the thread in this section titled, Subcutaneous Test Injections Study. I inject SC twice a week with 30 ga insulin pins. Takes 2 min to draw and 2 min to inject, but no pain and little scar tissue.
-Rob

 

[Bigblondekid]

I would stick with the 25g pin and just start heating up your test. Set it in some hot water for a while before pinning or some people even toss it in the microwave for about 20-30 seconds. Make sure that it's isn't too hot when you inject, or it hurts like hell. I have been pinning tren-e dosed at 300mg/ml, thickest gear I ever used, and when it's warm I have no problem pushing it through a 25g.

If heating it up doesn't work and you're still having trouble then you will probably want to go with a 23g. Hope it works out.

 

[tnubs]

heating doesnt hurt the potency? id be scared of that, personally.

 

[Want2Grow]

I totally forgot what i used, but i had to switch mid way through my cycle. I ended up using a guage that took like a solid 2 minutes to suck up a mL cuz it was too small, but when i injected, it left no mark and i couldnt even feel it. I never bothered with switching the needle to draw and then a new one to inject. I think it might have been a 25 i was using. it was difficult to inject cuz there was so much backpressure trying to push such thick oil through a tiny hole.

just curious, when u pull the needle out, does some of the oil ever come back out? i had that problem. id leave it in there for a min after. duno whats the best way, but it worked most of the time.

Yeah the doctor told me that using a 21g needle to draw would be easier. Of course he didn't tell me that until I had been doing it for 2 months. But yeah I have the same backpressure with the 25g needle.

No with a 1.5" needle I never have a problem with oil leakage. The doc told me to do either an air bubble and make sure I aspirate. Or to stretch the skin to 1 side prior to insertion which is what I do.

 

[Want2Grow]

Check the thread in this section titled, Subcutaneous Test Injections Study. I inject SC twice a week with 30 ga insulin pins. Takes 2 min to draw and 2 min to inject, but no pain and little scar tissue.
-Rob

I will. I was wondering how people were using insulin needles. I had read a couple of posts where they said they were doing that. So sub-q I guess is ok? My doctor told me to do IM so that is what I have been doing.

 

[Want2Grow]

I would stick with the 25g pin and just start heating up your test. Set it in some hot water for a while before pinning or some people even toss it in the microwave for about 20-30 seconds. Make sure that it's isn't too hot when you inject, or it hurts like hell. I have been pinning tren-e dosed at 300mg/ml, thickest gear I ever used, and when it's warm I have no problem pushing it through a 25g.

If heating it up doesn't work and you're still having trouble then you will probably want to go with a 23g. Hope it works out.

Never thought about heating it. I guess it is an oil and heat does help viscosity with oils.

Would I put the syringe w/ the test-e in the water, or the vial. Of course the vial can go in the microwave. And that kind of scares me. I could imagine heating it up to much and it burning like a mother going in.

 

[joeymutz]

So for the past few months I have been self injecting test-e. My doctor was kind enough to explain the process, but then didn't give me any advice on needles.

Well the pharmacy is absolutely worthless when it comes to know what needle length and gauge to use.

So I've been going about this trial and error and am curious as to what everyone else is using.

What I have decided on is using a 21gauge needle to draw with and a 25gauge 1.5inch for injection.

The 25g needle takes awhile to inject with as I'm really having to push to get it out of the syringe.

I've been thinking of going to a 23g needle, but I have to say the 25g really slides in nice and easy. Part of that I think is due to using a different needle to draw up the test-e with so I'm not dulling the tip on the one used for injection.

Anyway, just curious as to what everyone else is using.

Thanks!

Thats exactly what i do draw with a 20 gauge or 23 gauge, then pin with a 25 1.5 inch.

 

[joeymutz]

Check the thread in this section titled, Subcutaneous Test Injections Study. I inject SC twice a week with 30 ga insulin pins. Takes 2 min to draw and 2 min to inject, but no pain and little scar tissue.
-Rob

sorry bro but test e won't fit into a slin pin not if it's real. suspension sure but not with an oil the oil is too thick.

 

[longrob]

I have stable TT blood test levels dosing prescribed T-Cyp with 30 ga slin pins subcutaneously twice a week for the past year.

 

[Want2Grow]

sorry bro but test e won't fit into a slin pin not if it's real. suspension sure but not with an oil the oil is too thick.

Actually it will because that is what the pharmacy 'sold' me the first time around.

Of course you are looking at 20 mins to draw and inject. And of course forget doing an IM w/ those tiny needles. It was a royal pain to say the least.

 

[thesinner]

sorry bro but test e won't fit into a slin pin not if it's real. suspension sure but not with an oil the oil is too thick.

It will fit.

Injections will just take several hours.

 

[Want2Grow]

Thats exactly what i do draw with a 20 gauge or 23 gauge, then pin with a 25 1.5 inch.

Do you reuse your drawing needle or discard after each use?

Luckily for me, my wife is an aesthetician and has to sterilize her tools all the time so I just run alcohol through the needle and put it in her autoclave.

 

[SoCo4Fun]

Needles are so cheap I throw it away after each time...For heating I run the vial under hot water for a bit before swabbing the top and drawing.

 

[Bigblondekid]

Just heat it up in the vial, been doing it myself for a while. If you put it in the microwave just do it for about 20-30 seconds depending on the quantity. It's okay if you heat it up too much just draw it and wait until you can comfortably handle the syringe, should just feel warm. I found that this also helps with dispersal after you pin, I get less soreness the next day.

And as far as potency goes, the temps at which most steroids break down and become less potent is usually up in the viscinity of 300-400 degrees so I doubt that would happen unless you microwaved it for about an hour.

 

[joeymutz]

Actually it will because that is what the pharmacy 'sold' me the first time around.

Of course you are looking at 20 mins to draw and inject. And of course forget doing an IM w/ those tiny needles. It was a royal pain to say the least.

ok yeah that makes sense. it would take an extremly long time to inject. I would be surprised if you could even draw. i had a 25g pin and was trying to draw shering primo which is extremly thick. nedless to say i use a 20, 22, or 23g to draw everything. Then just switch the needle.

 

[joeymutz]

Do you reuse your drawing needle or discard after each use?

Luckily for me, my wife is an aesthetician and has to sterilize her tools all the time so I just run alcohol through the needle and put it in her autoclave.

I reuse the drawing needle but when i pin i switch from a 20g or 22g to a 25g depending on what I'm pinning. I always wipe the drawing pin down with a sterile alcohol wipe before i stick it in the vial though.

 

[dsade]

Beware putting a vial in the microwave...most of them are metal topped.

 

[joeymutz]

Beware putting a vial in the microwave...most of them are metal topped.

I never even thought about that. I never would put it in the microwave anyway. heating it up isn't a bad idea but i've been on for 14 weeks so i dont see the point of doing it now.

 

[jumpcannon]

why would anyone put their gear in the microwave when you could ziplock it and heat it with water? i pin right after a hot shower......i use a 22guage 3/4inch in the delts cause there is so little fat there. no oil comes back out. and i don't even heat my oil. i use an 18 guage to draw. and with the 22 guage in the delt i hardly even feel it. (until later on, haha) if you use a clean needle and inject into soft skin (after shower), you will have no probs!

 

[thesinner]

Beware putting a vial in the microwave...most of them are metal topped.

Kool Whip Bowls: not just for storing leftovers in anymore.

Fill up a microwave safe container with some water. Put in microwave for 1 minute. Now you done gots hot water.

Holding the crimped metal top, dip the vial in the hot water and swirl around for a minute.

You'll be amazed by the dramatic decrease in viscosity.

 

[JanSz]

This is how I draw, see attached picture.

Draw and inject with 3/10cc insulin syringe 31Ga 5/16" long needle.

I use BD syringes, some people complained that other brands needles have given them problems.

I use only these syringes,
for everything.

Mixing HCG.

Transporting water, going thru rubber stopper numerous times and on the end I use that same needle to do HCG shot.


Drawing oil thru 31Ga takes about 2 minues.
Sometimes I prefill number of syringes with test and HCG and am ready on the moments notice.


.........

.
.

 

[longrob]

Why are the two syringes stuck in a shoe?

 

[Steveoph]

Why are the two syringes stuck in a shoe?

Makeshift sharps ?

 

[techlogik]

Why are the two syringes stuck in a shoe?

Your tennies need the go go juice too!

I use the same method, excpet use two hands to draw. 31g BD insulin syringe, takes about 1 minute to draw out, I do .12ml per shot, which is about 25mg EOD.

Painless....I figure is diabetics can do this their entire lives, 20 years or more for me won't be that bad....

TS, when I did IM, I used 25g. I would heat up the syringe with T already in it, making the viscosity thinner under hot water...then inject...I just don't like the pain in the ass it is (pun intended).

 

[Steveoph]

You ever try pinning the vastus lateralis techlogik? That's easier than glute, but SC is tops if you have the time I suppose.

 

[longrob]

You ever try pinning the vastus lateralis techlogik? That's easier than glute, but SC is tops if you have the time I suppose.

I have 2 minutes; that's all it takes for pain free SC injections.
-Rob

 

[Gutterpump]

It will fit.

Injections will just take several hours.

4 minutes per 1/2cc in a slin pin, and that's non-pre-warmed oil. =D

Honestly though, I want to start doing IM shots and see if it has an effect with lowering e2

 

[longrob]

4 minutes per 1/2cc in a slin pin, and that's non-pre-warmed oil. =D

Honestly though, I want to start doing IM shots and see if it has an effect with lowering e2

Good point. I did not consider injection type might produce more or less E2. I need blood work next month to check my E2. I would certainly be interested in your results.

Are you saying your E2 is high? I forgot, how much T are you dosing?
-Rob

 

[Gutterpump]

I was dosing 75mg twice per week subQ, and 400iu twice per week subQ, the day before each t shot.

I am taking 2mg arimidex per week to keep morning wood alive. E2 is high.

I recently increased my test-cyp to 100mg twice per week to try to increase my DHT which is on the low-normal end. Not working enough so I need dht cream.

I am on accutane and I have read that accutane inhibits T -> DHT conversion.

this is the pathway to which Accutane (13-cis retinoic acid) works. It increases your IGFBP-3 hormone which prevents IGF-1 from binding to the androgen receptors. In turn, this prevents the production of Androgen which means a decrease in the amount of DHT (5alpha-dihydrotestoterone) that will be converted in the sebaceous follicles. Furthemore, it also DIRECTLY prevents the conversion of DHT by inhibiting the enzyme (3alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase) neccessary for this function

Sorry for getting a little off topic... thought this info could randomly help some people

 

[longrob]

I was dosing 75mg twice per week subQ, and 400iu twice per week subQ, the day before each t shot.

Perhaps it's the 150mg a week in conjuction with the 400iu hCG that has pushed your E2 higher than you want? You probably have read Dr Crisler say in AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL, "I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required".

But you are not really that far over the top. What is your TT? Everyone is different.
-Rob

 

[thesinner]

I was dosing 75mg twice per week subQ, and 400iu twice per week subQ, the day before each t shot.

I am taking 2mg arimidex per week to keep morning wood alive. E2 is high.

I recently increased my test-cyp to 100mg twice per week to try to increase my DHT which is on the low-normal end. Not working enough so I need dht cream.

I am on accutane and I have read that accutane inhibits T -> DHT conversion.



Sorry for getting a little off topic... thought this info could randomly help some people

3-alpha hydroxysteroidase is going to inhibit the conversion of Androstanedione to DHT. This is a metabolite of a few pathways, but not the direct conversion of Testosterone to DHT.

This catalytic conversion is reversible. So DHT can also be converting to androstanedione via this enzyme.

I don't doubt DHT levels might decrease, but I don't think the levels are going to be comparable to something like finasteride.

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm trying to figure out why 200mg test per week + 800iu of HCG only gives me a level of DHT at 27 (quest range of 25-75). Seems rediculously low. Accutane seems like the only possible reason. I've read it documented in many areas where it has lowered DHT in many people permanently. It could be that I am just a bad converter though..but that doesn't make much sense considering the levels I am taking. Also taking 2mg arimidex per week and that should also indirectly increase DHT.

 

[PumpDogg]

23 gauge 1 inch is perfect.. as for heating your gear.. really no need in torching your gear in my opinion

 

[Gutterpump]

Perhaps it's the 150mg a week in conjuction with the 400iu hCG that has pushed your E2 higher than you want? You probably have read Dr Crisler say in AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL, "I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required".

But you are not really that far over the top. What is your TT? Everyone is different.
-Rob

Still needing bloodwork, likely next week. I just started about two months ago with my new Dr. I am dosing my arimidex based on feeling and function. 2mg per week gives me strong morning wood and keeps libido active for me. Any less and I lose both. I am sure that my TT is defintely over the top of range though. I am taking 200mg per week now, not 150 anymore, also taking 800iu hCG per week. Dr. John is right though, about 350iu or 400iu each dose is perfect. I notice a positive difference when this is done every 4 days though.

I wouldn't be surprised if my TT is over 1500... but it doesn't explain my low DHT for these numbers. If my DHT is on the low end, maybe I could be low on TT / FT (or high on SHBG) even with that amount of test/hcg I am taking. I have to get tested.

 

[Gutterpump]

23 gauge 1 inch is perfect.. as for heating your gear.. really no need in torching your gear in my opinion

No need to torch. Simply run the vial under warm water, it greatly lowers viscosity.

 

[Want2Grow]

No need to torch. Simply run the vial under warm water, it greatly lowers viscosity.

So I tried heating it up using a baggy and a cup of hot water.

The oil was definitely less viscous. For the first time, I actually had oil run out of the injection site when I removed the needle.

That never happened when I didn't heat the oil. So back to slowly injecting the thicker oil. Can't waste any of that life changing elixir.

 

[Gutterpump]

So I tried heating it up using a baggy and a cup of hot water.

The oil was definitely less viscous. For the first time, I actually had oil run out of the injection site when I removed the needle.

That never happened when I didn't heat the oil. So back to slowly injecting the thicker oil. Can't waste any of that life changing elixir.

What gauge needle did you use when doing this?
I don't do it with the larger ones (25 gauge 1")

 

[jinxie]

Beware putting a vial in the microwave...most of them are metal topped.

Heat up a cup of water -- 1 to 1.5 min in microwave. Then either submerge the vial, or the syringe (yes, the syringe -- it will not melt as long as water isn't boiling).

When I was taking test, I used a 21 gauge to draw, and then pulled the plunger off of slin pins, filled them with test, and then re-inserted plunger. On shot days, I would heat the syringe in water. Worked like a charm. Never hurts. This is a great technique for those that prefer to shoot often to keep E2 down.

Hope that helps.

 

[jinxie]

So I tried heating it up using a baggy and a cup of hot water.

The oil was definitely less viscous. For the first time, I actually had oil run out of the injection site when I removed the needle.

That never happened when I didn't heat the oil. So back to slowly injecting the thicker oil. Can't waste any of that life changing elixir.

I dont know how oil could run out if you are injecting IM with an inch plus pin. That can happen if you are injecting sub-q, but even then, infrequent. My guess is that you are injecting too quickly. Count 5 Mississippi's for injection.