Sleep Apnea

[jon671]

I'm almost sure I have it. I am overweight and trying to lose weight so I don't need to hear about that. Twice this week I woke up in the middle of the night and I had to gasp for air. It was that feeling when you hold your breath for to long and you finally breath. I have also been having f**cking panic attacks lately. I am making an appointment tomorrow with my doctor to get a refferal to a sleep center. Did I just find a big piece of the puzzle? Also my diet hasn't changed and I have been exercising 5-6 times a week, but my weight went up. If I do have sleep apnea and I lose weight or get it fixed will it fix my problem?
Someone told me on here to get checked, but somethings happened and it kinda got pushed aside. I think his name was JPK? Anyway you were probably right man. This sucks.

 

[dementor]

IF you have sleep apnea, you will get a hole new life after you start treatment with a CPAP and mask.

Hope you find a doctor who is knowledgeable about this, and can refer you to a good sleep lab.

 

[The Matrix]

Jon I think I mentioned this to you a while ago. Sleep apnea can be cause by hypothyroidism, low testosteone, and other circulatory problems. One dr's needs to look at all parameters and sleep apnea may be asymptom of the cause.

 

[JanSz]

I'm almost sure I have it. I am overweight and trying to lose weight so I don't need to hear about that. Twice this week I woke up in the middle of the night and I had to gasp for air. It was that feeling when you hold your breath for to long and you finally breath. I have also been having f**cking panic attacks lately. I am making an appointment tomorrow with my doctor to get a refferal to a sleep center. Did I just find a big piece of the puzzle? Also my diet hasn't changed and I have been exercising 5-6 times a week, but my weight went up. If I do have sleep apnea and I lose weight or get it fixed will it fix my problem?
Someone told me on here to get checked, but somethings happened and it kinda got pushed aside. I think his name was JPK? Anyway you were probably right man. This sucks.

I do not know if you will get fixed,
but CrazyCrew claims that he feels like a new born (sleep problem plus many other) and he did not implemented the whole program yet.

OTOH there is a Peter who gets real upset if someone tells him to skip a meal,
for some "unknown" reason he cant be helped.

.
Waist 34"
glucose/insuline
BAT, BioAvailableTestosterone/E2/DHT
Cortisol/DHEA/aldosterone/renin/sodium/potassium
T4/T3, Oral temperature (36.25 - 36.80)C = (97.25 - 98.24)F (no sinus or oral infections)
iron, iodine, calcium/magnessium, zinc, manganese, selenium,
Vit D, E, A, C, B12, B6
gastric juice, probiotic, enzymes

Check those above,
and if
you are using testosterone injections,
do your self a favor,
do (T & HCG) and
inject EOD, but if you can, do it ED.
.
.

 

[jon671]

IF you have sleep apnea, you will get a hole new life after you start treatment with a CPAP and mask.

Hope you find a doctor who is knowledgeable about this, and can refer you to a good sleep lab.

Thanks luckily there is a good sleep center here locally. I have an appointment with a new GP in two days.

 

[jon671]

Jon I think I mentioned this to you a while ago. Sleep apnea can be cause by hypothyroidism, low testosteone, and other circulatory problems. One dr's needs to look at all parameters and sleep apnea may be asymptom of the cause.

PM sent

 

[jon671]

I do not know if you will get fixed,
but CrazyCrew claims that he feels like a new born (sleep problem plus many other) and he did not implemented the whole program yet.

OTOH there is a Peter who gets real upset if someone tells him to skip a meal,
for some "unknown" reason he cant be helped.

.
Waist 34"
glucose/insuline
BAT, BioAvailableTestosterone/E2/DHT
Cortisol/DHEA/aldosterone/renin/sodium/potassium
T4/T3, Oral temperature (36.25 - 36.80)C = (97.25 - 98.24)F (no sinus or oral infections)
iron, iodine, calcium/magnessium, zinc, manganese, selenium,
Vit D, E, A, C, B12, B6
gastric juice, probiotic, enzymes

Check those above,
and if
you are using testosterone injections,
do your self a favor,
do (T & HCG) and
inject EOD, but if you can, do it ED.
.
.

Thanks Jansz

I'm fat I know it. It's my fault. I have made changes though 5-6 hours of cardio a week, about 3 hours weight training, I quit smoking about two years ago, practically no sugar, slowly cutting out unhealthy carbs, increased protein intake to almost 1gm per pound hard at 300 pounds though. The truth is the "unknown" reason is I haven't been to the doctor in almost 2 years they told me nothing was wrong I have to lose weight. I saw a doctor and a endo both said nothing wrong only weight. Anyway since then certain things have happened excuses if you will. Also I am a hypochondriac and don't like doctors scared of finding out what is really wrong. Silly and childish, but I am sick of it and am going to tell ALL my symptoms to my new doc and demand treatment. I really doubt he would approve of the hcg probably lucky if he will give me test. He specializes in sport medicine so I am hoping he is open to discussion. I will be trying to see dr Mariano in a little less than a year, but until then I need to find someone locally. Also where I am there is no private labs or local lab that will work with ones in the states. Everything has to be ordered by a doc. Just curious if there was a reference to pumpkin eating?

 

[JanSz]

Thanks Jansz

I'm fat I know it. It's my fault. I have made changes though 5-6 hours of cardio a week, about 3 hours weight training, I quit smoking about two years ago, practically no sugar, slowly cutting out unhealthy carbs, increased protein intake to almost 1gm per pound hard at 300 pounds though. The truth is the "unknown" reason is I haven't been to the doctor in almost 2 years they told me nothing was wrong I have to lose weight. I saw a doctor and a endo both said nothing wrong only weight. Anyway since then certain things have happened excuses if you will. Also I am a hypochondriac and don't like doctors scared of finding out what is really wrong. Silly and childish, but I am sick of it and am going to tell ALL my symptoms to my new doc and demand treatment. I really doubt he would approve of the hcg probably lucky if he will give me test. He specializes in sport medicine so I am hoping he is open to discussion. I will be trying to see dr Mariano in a little less than a year, but until then I need to find someone locally. Also where I am there is no private labs or local lab that will work with ones in the states. Everything has to be ordered by a doc. Just curious if there was a reference to pumpkin eating?

300#
just like the other guy.
hypochondriac, yes, similar

I am serious,
doctor is not going to help you,
nobody will be able to help you
except

you yourself
99% work is on you
------------------------

We still have to talk,
for example
you are not going to loose weight by exercising
keep exercising as much as you can
but do not overdue and do not expect loosing weight of body fat because you exercised.
------------------------

For a long time you will have to simplify your diet.
It have to be real real simple so you know when you are in compliance and you know when you are not.
That is the only reason for simplification.
2-3 years latter, when you are lean and when you suck up your tummy and the tape reads 34", then you may add variety of foods.
-----------------------

For simple or little more complicated diet plan look at my post #63 here

musc lechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46751#post46751

If you want even simpler;
get a scale and a steamer:

every day have 1.5# of proteins,
equal weights of:

eggs
cottage cheese
chicken
turkey
beef
pork
fish

get also a pile of green vegetables (do not count how much)
other than cottage cheese, steam everything for 15-20 minutes.

Divide all that into as many meals as you want.
Eat all proteins and as much vegetables as you need to stave hunger.

Season everything as best as you can, more seasoning, better.
If your proteins are lean (they do not have to), add fats,

fish oil
butter
lard
olive oil
coconut oil
palm oil

-------
Note that in above text you cannot find
wheat
rye
rice
sugar
potato

anything remotely resembling GI food.
-----------------

.........
If you want to talk about blood, urine, saliva tests
and how to make the next one better
yes
that will help you
we can talk in some details about it
but
at the moment
the biggest bang you will get from proper eating
and
only little bit from moving around.
.
.

 

[jon671]

300#
just like the other guy.
hypochondriac, yes, similar

I am serious,
doctor is not going to help you,
nobody will be able to help you
except

you yourself
99% work is on you
------------------------

We still have to talk,
for example
you are not going to loose weight by exercising
keep exercising as much as you can
but do not overdue and do not expect loosing weight of body fat because you exercised.
------------------------

For a long time you will have to simplify your diet.
It have to be real real simple so you know when you are in compliance and you know when you are not.
That is the only reason for simplification.
2-3 years latter, when you are lean and when you suck up your tummy and the tape reads 34", then you may add variety of foods.
-----------------------

For simple or little more complicated diet plan look at my post #63 here

musc lechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46751#post46751

If you want even simpler;
get a scale and a steamer:

every day have 1.5# of proteins,
equal weights of:

eggs
cottage cheese
chicken
turkey
beef
pork
fish

get also a pile of green vegetables (do not count how much)
other than cottage cheese, steam everything for 15-20 minutes.

Divide all that into as many meals as you want.
Eat all proteins and as much vegetables as you need to stave hunger.

Season everything as best as you can, more seasoning, better.
If your proteins are lean (they do not have to), add fats,

fish oil
butter
lard
olive oil
coconut oil
palm oil

-------
Note that in above text you cannot find
wheat
rye
rice
sugar
potato

anything remotely resembling GI food.
-----------------

.........
If you want to talk about blood, urine, saliva tests
and how to make the next one better
yes
that will help you
we can talk in some details about it
but
at the moment
the biggest bang you will get from proper eating
and
only little bit from moving around.
.
.

Thanks Jansz,

I appreciate your input. Working toward that strict of a diet. What about carbs and calories? Macros? I will lose the weight, but as for helping myself hormonally it is very difficult I've done "research" and found places, but you CANNOT get blood work whatsoever without a prescription. I am going to get a full check-up including heart, hepatic, mri, bloodwork,metabolic, hopefully immune function, and maybe ultrasound of a lymph node on inner thigh been there for years cbc was okay last time soft mobile about half inch. Has been bothering me this whole time. I have minor gyno and the radiologist that scanned me told me I have breast cancer, have to get mastectomy......Saw an oncologist they said it was gyno and only minor and it hasn't grown since. I have been to the ER twice in the last few months for anxiety I thought it was a heart attack, normal ekg, slightly elevated bp normal chest xray both times. I am a mess maybe mentally, but I think it is due to not facing my fears and fully examining myself.

Anyway thanks my appointment is tomorrow and would appreciate any other input. I will ask for what you suggested bloodwork.

One more thing is I ordered a bunch of all the whey protein isolate protein shake the nutrition facts seem okay. It is hard for me to eat that much protein.

Jon

 

[Gutterpump]

Pretty sure I have some form of apnea.

I've always meant to do a sleep study when I've got time...but for now I purchased a head/jaw strap that's used normally with the CPAP. It keeps your mouth closed when you sleep and stops your tongue from sliding back. It reduces snoring by a lot and increases airflow a lot. It's not the perfect solution for people with severe apnea, but it helps and is a lot cheaper and less intrusive than a CPAP machine

 

[mikeyboyeee]

MInd posting that up? I am not sure I have sleep apnea, but I snore like a mofo.

 

[Gutterpump]

I saw this ad all over the net, so I figured what the hell, give it a shot:

https://snoringsolutionsite.com/?aid=DNA&sub-id=301744

Seems pricey for what it is, but it's comfortable and works

 

[jon671]

Just came back I might have struck gold. The doctor was very receptive and really seems like he will help. He said he wants to give me a referral to a hospital that will require travel. He was saying that I am probably primary and he gave me labs to do tomorrow even though my fsh is low and I'm fertile. The labs aren't everything that I want, but it is a start. I gave him a really long list and he said if I want insurance to pay we need to start somewhere. He mentioned gel as the fix. I want to go see Dr. Mariano, but he is really pushing me to go somewhere else. The best thing is he is the first dr so far to acknowledge it is a problem that needs to be fixed and insurance should cover it. Still curious what the results of the labs are going to be.

 

[mikeyboyeee]

I have an APt. With Dr. M on Wed and wil be getting a script for a sleep center study.
already found sleep center (part of a cardiac specialist center) less then 1 mile from my new house and in my insurance plan.
My study is in Sept (1st apt I could get).
NO DOUBT, I have at least a moderate case and most likely a sever case of sleep apnea (according to my wife)

 

[pcgizzmo]

Sleep Apnea is near and dear to my heart.

Sleep Apnea can cause low testosterone and also insulin sensitivity. Get it fixed first. Make sure your Dr. is board certified in sleep medicine and not some quack w/a sleep lab. When you get your CPAP make SURE absolutely SURE you get a Respironics machine w/C-FLEX. This machine is by far the easiest to breath with and you will be happy right out of the gate. I also recommend a full face mask because a majority of people are mouth breathers and you will have the Dr. telling you they can give you a chin strap etc... and your mask will just fit your nose but that doesn't work because you will still try and breath through your mouth. Just get a full face mask and be done w/it.

On the testosterone side. More than likely you are secondary. Sleep Apnea causes lowered LH/FSH response in men due to abnormal sleep cycles. This may or may not improve w/CPAP. If you get on testosterone do your best to get injections because we know they work and you won't have to mess around guessing if you will absorb gels or not. Make sure you have a CPAP and Apnea is controlled first or your Apnea could get worse. Testosterone can make apnea worse.

On the diet side. Janz gave you great advice but I disagree slightly on his advice about exercise. Weight training/aerobic exercise to a lesser degree greatly helps improve insulin sensitivity and more than likely you are insulin sensitive. You need the exercise.

Put these three things together and in about 3 months you should feel and look like a new man.

 

[jon671]

Sleep Apnea is near and dear to my heart.

Sleep Apnea can cause low testosterone and also insulin sensitivity. Get it fixed first. Make sure your Dr. is board certified in sleep medicine and not some quack w/a sleep lab. When you get your CPAP make SURE absolutely SURE you get a Respironics machine w/C-FLEX. This machine is by far the easiest to breath with and you will be happy right out of the gate. I also recommend a full face mask because a majority of people are mouth breathers and you will have the Dr. telling you they can give you a chin strap etc... and your mask will just fit your nose but that doesn't work because you will still try and breath through your mouth. Just get a full face mask and be done w/it.

On the testosterone side. More than likely you are secondary. Sleep Apnea causes lowered LH/FSH response in men due to abnormal sleep cycles. This may or may not improve w/CPAP. If you get on testosterone do your best to get injections because we know they work and you won't have to mess around guessing if you will absorb gels or not. Make sure you have a CPAP and Apnea is controlled first or your Apnea could get worse. Testosterone can make apnea worse.

On the diet side. Janz gave you great advice but I disagree slightly on his advice about exercise. Weight training/aerobic exercise to a lesser degree greatly helps improve insulin sensitivity and more than likely you are insulin sensitive. You need the exercise.

Put these three things together and in about 3 months you should feel and look like a new man.

Hey Pcgizzmo,

Thanks for the reply I see you giving good advice on meso alot. I lurk over there. Anyway I don't have another appointment until next month on the 18th. My new doctor seems like he will help, but it is obvious he is not versed in these kind of things. He admitted this and said he would treat me, but wants me to see a specialist first. He will feel more comfortable treating me with that guidance. I will probably travel to see a specialist and use this gp to order labs and write scripts. I did a super long list of labs, urinealysis, and a semen analysis that JanSz seemed to think were sufficent. It is the most comprehensive set of test so far. The thing that stuck out and made me like this doc was he said it was a problem and apologized that no one has helped me yet. I woke up twice breathless and gasping for air recently. Sometimes I wake up with sore throat and headache on these days I am noticeably more tired than on other days. I will get the sleep study before I go to see the specialist because I have to travel far. Anyway about the being secondary I hope so but I am not sure. My lh is usually mid range although my fsh is low and I am proven to be fertile. My thyroid and adrenals are question though. The labs I have coming are probably enough to shed some light though. I would like to avoid trt but I am sick of feeling like sh*t.

 

[jon671]

I have an APt. With Dr. M on Wed and wil be getting a script for a sleep center study.
already found sleep center (part of a cardiac specialist center) less then 1 mile from my new house and in my insurance plan.
My study is in Sept (1st apt I could get).
NO DOUBT, I have at least a moderate case and most likely a sever case of sleep apnea (according to my wife)

Hey good luck. Keep me posted. I have an appointment with my gp next month and I will request a sleep study. I snore off and on, but I woke up twice recently gasping for air. Sometimes I wake up with sore throat and a headache on these days I am more fatigued than usual.

 

[mikeyboyeee]

Inever woke up gasping for air that I can ecall, but the wife sleeps with ear plugs because snoring so loud and she said she def notices me stop breathing at night.

Dr. M tomorrow to go over results from labs, getting script for sleep lab and that is sched for Sept 13th.

Tightened up diet big time recently and joined gym last night, so time to get back to training, losing weight and feeling good

 

[pcgizzmo]

Just heard today of a new study. Those w/ untreated Sleep Apnea have a 48% higher chance of death.

Waking up gasping is defintly apnea. If you are a loud snorer you should be checked for apnea.

One of the things to look at if you are unsure are the following.

1. How likely are you to fall asleep while reading?

2. How likely are you to fall asleep while watching TV

3. How likely are you to fall asleep while driving?

4. Do you fall asleep when you go to bed in 5 minutes or less?

If you answered any of these yes and snore then it might be worth your while to have a sleep study done.

 

[mikeyboyeee]

Just heard today of a new study. Those w/ untreated Sleep Apnea have a 48% higher chance of death.

Waking up gasping is defintly apnea. If you are a loud snorer you should be checked for apnea.

One of the things to look at if you are unsure are the following.

1. How likely are you to fall asleep while reading?

2. How likely are you to fall asleep while watching TV

3. How likely are you to fall asleep while driving?

4. Do you fall asleep when you go to bed in 5 minutes or less?

If you answered any of these yes and snore then it might be worth your while to have a sleep study done.

While I agree totally that Sleep Apnea is a major problem if left untreated (more and more convinced the further I research it) I have a bit of trouble with your statistic.
Their is no one I have ever heard of that does not have a 100% of death, so I do not see how a person can have a 148% chance of death when 100% is a certainty already

 

[pcgizzmo]

While I agree totally that Sleep Apnea is a major problem if left untreated (more and more convinced the further I research it) I have a bit of trouble with your statistic.
Their is no one I have ever heard of that does not have a 100% of death, so I do not see how a person can have a 148% chance of death when 100% is a certainty already

LOL! Agreed. I see your point. I'm still working toward the first human to reach immortality though.

 

[Gutterpump]

I think it means chances of premature death increases lol

 

[JanSz]

While I agree totally that Sleep Apnea is a major problem if left untreated (more and more convinced the further I research it) I have a bit of trouble with your statistic.
Their is no one I have ever heard of that does not have a 100% of death, so I do not see how a person can have a 148% chance of death when 100% is a certainty already

My effort to explain 48%
------------------------------------
Along this lines
Take (112.3215) 40 yo men
(75.89285) healthy, have numbers per my published goals
(36.4286) ok but owerweighet by 100# w/sleep apnea
15 years latter all (36.4286) died of all kind of causes
15 years latter all (75.89285) still do both of their girfriends 5x/week then go to gym to workout for 90 minutes 5x/week

36.42860335/75.89285345=0.480000444

36.42860335+75.89285345=112.3214568

I have to quit while I am ahead.
.

 

[mikeyboyeee]

Notice the smiley at the end of my post.

 

[Mr.50]

300#
just like the other guy.
hypochondriac, yes, similar

I am serious,
doctor is not going to help you,
nobody will be able to help you
except

you yourself
99% work is on you
------------------------

We still have to talk,
for example
you are not going to loose weight by exercising
keep exercising as much as you can
but do not overdue and do not expect loosing weight of body fat because you exercised.
------------------------

For a long time you will have to simplify your diet.
It have to be real real simple so you know when you are in compliance and you know when you are not.
That is the only reason for simplification.
2-3 years latter, when you are lean and when you suck up your tummy and the tape reads 34", then you may add variety of foods.
-----------------------

For simple or little more complicated diet plan look at my post #63 here

musc lechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46751#post46751

If you want even simpler;
get a scale and a steamer:

every day have 1.5# of proteins,
equal weights of:

eggs
cottage cheese
chicken
turkey
beef
pork
fish

get also a pile of green vegetables (do not count how much)
other than cottage cheese, steam everything for 15-20 minutes.

Divide all that into as many meals as you want.
Eat all proteins and as much vegetables as you need to stave hunger.

Season everything as best as you can, more seasoning, better.
If your proteins are lean (they do not have to), add fats,

fish oil
butter
lard
olive oil
coconut oil
palm oil

-------
Note that in above text you cannot find
wheat
rye
rice
sugar
potato

anything remotely resembling GI food.
-----------------

.........
If you want to talk about blood, urine, saliva tests
and how to make the next one better
yes
that will help you
we can talk in some details about it
but
at the moment
the biggest bang you will get from proper eating
and
only little bit from moving around.
.
.

Jansz can you actually do a significant amount of relatively high intensity cardio on this type of diet. I like the way the diet looks but I also like to run and I think I may need some sort of higher GI carbs to fule the fire.....or am I missing something?

Also does anyone know specifically how sleep apnea can affect exercise performance and recovery? I think it is obvious that it would be detrimental but I have been plagued by poor recovery from exercise,....constantly feeling tired or that I want to lay down.....and my girlfriend cant sleep because of my snoring. I am trying to figure out if I should have a sleep study done.

I am hypothyroid but medicated and blood levels seem good.....test and the rest appear fine.

Mr.50

 

[mikeyboyeee]

I think the lack of oxygen carried to your tissues due to effects of Sleep apnea could directly be related to poor recovery and poor cardio/endurance performance ( Like I suffer from).

 

[B5150]

Jansz can you actually do a significant amount of relatively high intensity cardio on this type of diet. I like the way the diet looks but I also like to run and I think I may need some sort of higher GI carbs to fule the fire.....or am I missing something?

A meat (protein) and vegetable diet is very healthy. You never need high GI carbohydrates.

Also does anyone know specifically how sleep apnea can affect exercise performance and recovery? I think it is obvious that it would be detrimental but I have been plagued by poor recovery from exercise,....constantly feeling tired or that I want to lay down.....and my girlfriend cant sleep because of my snoring. I am trying to figure out if I should have a sleep study done.

Having a sleep study done is not a monumental life altering decision. Ask your doctor to prescribe you a referral and get it done. It's as easy as one night sleep.

Improvement of Exercise Performance with Short-Term Nasal Continuous Positive Airway Pressure in Patients with Obstructive Sleep Apnea



Osamu Taguchi1), Wataru Hida1), Shinichi Okabe1), Satoru Ebihara1), Hiromasa Ogawa1), Yoshihiro Kikuchi1) and Kunio Shirato1)

1) The First Department of Internal Medicine, Tohoku University School of Medicine

(Received February 19, 1997)
(Revision accepted for publication August 4, 1997)



We examined the effects of nasal continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) on exercise performance in patients with obstructive sleep apnea (OSA). Six patients were treated with nasal CPAP on seven successive days and underwent overnight sleep studies and multiple sleep latency test (MSLT) at the beginning and after the last day of the treatment. The subjects also performed incremental exercise testing using a bicycle ergometer followed by 0-w, 25-w, 50-w, — (3 minutes each ) until maximum level. Arterial oxygen pressure, arterial carbon dioxide pressure at rest while awake, apnea/hypopnea index, longest apnea duration, the lowest percutaneous oxygen saturation measured by a pulse oximeter and the value of MSLT were significantly improved after nasal CPAP. Moreover, maximal oxygen consumption was significantly increased from 1841 ml/min±350 to 2125 ml/min±351 (p<0.05); however, other cardiorespiratory parameters did not change significantly. The improvement of exercise performance by short-term nasal CPAP treatment in OSA patients may correlate with the improvement of sleepiness.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sleep+apnea+exercise+performance&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

 

[Mr.50]

A meat (protein) and vegetable diet is very healthy. You never need high GI carbohydrates.Having a sleep study done is not a monumental life altering decision. Ask your doctor to prescribe you a referral and get it done. It's as easy as one night sleep.

Thanks B5150. I know your right about the sleep study but I have individual health insurance and it is medically underwritten so any time I have a new condition it affects my premium rate. Im planning on getting married in April so if that happens I will be on tyhe wife's health insurance which is really good. Just trying to evaluate if I can wait till then.

Mr.50

 

[B5150]

I've been fortunate, United Health Care has been good to me, with the exception of that I end up paying for my machine because it was just around $500 and, well, you guessed it, my deductible for medical equipment is $500. Otherwise, MRI's, bloodwork, sleep study, etc - zero.

Congratulations on the upcoming nuptials.

 

[Gutterpump]

A meat (protein) and vegetable diet is very healthy.

True, but bodybuilders / athletes do need glycogen otherwise they are constantly going catabolic. The muscle needs sugars for intense use, and it will break down muscle to get this. Simple carbs / glycogen is needed to fuel intense workouts. Cardio should be fine though just with bcaa's / l-leucine. I guess it all depends on how people train... but a strictly long term ketogenic diet could be detrimental to an athlete who trains with intensity.

 

[mikeyboyeee]

Which is why you carb back up when your tbody emperature in the am drops a degree or so.
Then you know you need to carb up for a few days until temp rises back to normal.

 

[B5150]

I'm not schooled in physiology, but I believe low GI carbohydrates are quite capable of providing all the glycogen one needs. I don't live solely on vegetables but the carbohydrates I do consume tend to be low GI - when I have my self control well in check.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

I've been on the Jay Robb fruit diet since March and have lost 34 lbs - 4 inches from my waist. I sleep better and feel better. It doesn't appear I've lost any muscle mass. I have more energy in the gym, and my strength is up.

This is my routine:

Fresh fruit every 2 to 4 hours. If for some reason I didn't eat enough during one meal I wait and hour before eating again.

Dinner is 8 oz of lean protein - a chopped raw vegetable salad with olive oil and lemon - some steamed vegetables.

During the evening I snack on organic nuts, and drink lots of water.

I have to avoid fats during the day, so I take my oils at night. Every Saturday evening I go out and have whatever I want to eat. It was hard to give up fats during the day the first two weeks, but then it became easy. Occasionally I lift in the morning and make a fresh fruit smoothie with a scoop of whey for post workout. I look and feel 10 years younger. I don't have a before picture unfortunately. I could live this way forever. It's amazing.

My effort to explain 48%
------------------------------------
Along this lines
Take (112.3215) 40 yo men
(75.89285) healthy, have numbers per my published goals
(36.4286) ok but owerweighet by 100# w/sleep apnea
15 years latter all (36.4286) died of all kind of causes
15 years latter all (75.89285) still do both of their girfriends 5x/week then go to gym to workout for 90 minutes 5x/week

36.42860335/75.89285345=0.480000444

36.42860335+75.89285345=112.3214568

I have to quit while I am ahead.
.

 

[Mr.50]

I've been fortunate, United Health Care has been good to me, with the exception of that I end up paying for my machine because it was just around $500 and, well, you guessed it, my deductible for medical equipment is $500. Otherwise, MRI's, bloodwork, sleep study, etc - zero.

Congratulations on the upcoming nuptials.

Thanks for the good wishes!

Mr.50

 

[Mr.50]

I've been on the Jay Robb fruit diet since March and have lost 34 lbs - 4 inches from my waist. I sleep better and feel better. It doesn't appear I've lost any muscle mass. I have more energy in the gym, and my strength is up.

This is my routine:

Fresh fruit every 2 to 4 hours. If for some reason I didn't eat enough during one meal I wait and hour before eating again.

Dinner is 8 oz of lean protein - a chopped raw vegetable salad with olive oil and lemon - some steamed vegetables.

During the evening I snack on organic nuts, and drink lots of water.

I have to avoid fats during the day, so I take my oils at night. Every Saturday evening I go out and have whatever I want to eat. It was hard to give up fats during the day the first two weeks, but then it became easy. Occasionally I lift in the morning and make a fresh fruit smoothie with a scoop of whey for post workout. I look and feel 10 years younger. I don't have a before picture unfortunately. I could live this way forever. It's amazing.

Hmmmmmm. this sounds interesting too.

 

[Gutterpump]

Which is why you carb back up when your tbody emperature in the am drops a degree or so.
Then you know you need to carb up for a few days until temp rises back to normal.

Yup that's right. That's why long term keto diets are bad. (ketogenic diet without carb ups = no good). It effects the thyroid + seratonin in a negative way.

Preventing ketosis by eating low GI foods, and enough of them, is good though, if you're not into cycling your carbs/going keto for a short while.

 

[Gutterpump]

I've been on the Jay Robb fruit diet since March and have lost 34 lbs - 4 inches from my waist. I sleep better and feel better. It doesn't appear I've lost any muscle mass. I have more energy in the gym, and my strength is up.

This is my routine:

Fresh fruit every 2 to 4 hours. If for some reason I didn't eat enough during one meal I wait and hour before eating again.

Dinner is 8 oz of lean protein - a chopped raw vegetable salad with olive oil and lemon - some steamed vegetables.

During the evening I snack on organic nuts, and drink lots of water.

I have to avoid fats during the day, so I take my oils at night. Every Saturday evening I go out and have whatever I want to eat. It was hard to give up fats during the day the first two weeks, but then it became easy. Occasionally I lift in the morning and make a fresh fruit smoothie with a scoop of whey for post workout. I look and feel 10 years younger. I don't have a before picture unfortunately. I could live this way forever. It's amazing.

Make sure you're getting enough saturated fats + EFA's. EVCO I think would be a must on that diet, if you're using it for a long time.

 

[JanSz]

Make sure you're getting enough saturated fats + EFA's. EVCO I think would be a must on that diet, if you're using it for a long time.

What do you know about fats?

I need to increase my

Omega-6
Dihomo-y-linoleinic (DGLA) 20:3 n6

Therere is a list of cofactors that helps convert GLA--->DGLA (B3, B6, B5, C)

I have not tried B5.

May have to.