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    Need direction.


    I will try to keep a long story short. I am 28 and the last two years of my life, health wise, have gone to hell. I lift regularly and my diet is pretty clean. About a year ago, I had blood work done and it showed low testosterone. I was tested for some other things and found out I had thyroid issues and low test. I have tried some more natural therapies and they did not work for me. Each time I get tested, it seems my test value and TSH rise and fall in wave. So does how I feel. My highest total test has been 430 and lowest 212. My TSH ranges from 3.5 - 9.0. I constantly sweat in ac and have put on 30-40 lbs of fat. I am currently 228 at 5'8". I do have a decent amount of mass but it is truly covered up with the extra weight. At my best I was at 205 at 5% BF. The doctor I am seeing is a MD. He like to try holistic approaches first but has no problem prescribing anything. He has put me on Armour thyroid, but my TSH still fluctuates. He has me on compunded test cream at 300mg a day with chrysin in it. I believe that it is converting to estrogen and will be confirming this with blood work next week. I have used AS before but never abused them. My body reacted well to small doses. The question I have is what direction, as far as therapy, I should go. I am pretty damn tired of having one good month to three bad. If anyone has any experience with this please chime in and let me know. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    I will try to keep a long story short. I am 28 and the last two years of my life, health wise, have gone to hell. I lift regularly and my diet is pretty clean. About a year ago, I had blood work done and it showed low testosterone. I was tested for some other things and found out I had thyroid issues and low test. I have tried some more natural therapies and they did not work for me. Each time I get tested, it seems my test value and TSH rise and fall in wave. So does how I feel. My highest total test has been 430 and lowest 212. My TSH ranges from 3.5 - 9.0. I constantly sweat in ac and have put on 30-40 lbs of fat. I am currently 228 at 5'8". I do have a decent amount of mass but it is truly covered up with the extra weight. At my best I was at 205 at 5% BF. The doctor I am seeing is a MD. He like to try holistic approaches first but has no problem prescribing anything. He has put me on Armour thyroid, but my TSH still fluctuates. He has me on compunded test cream at 300mg a day with chrysin in it. I believe that it is converting to estrogen and will be confirming this with blood work next week. I have used AS before but never abused them. My body reacted well to small doses. The question I have is what direction, as far as therapy, I should go. I am pretty damn tired of having one good month to three bad. If anyone has any experience with this please chime in and let me know. Thanks.
    Post all your tests.
    sort by
    date
    lab name
    analyte, value, units, range

    describe what you were taking for about a month prior to testing

    do not use chrysin

    300mg a day (transdermal)
    and not much testosterone in the blood means that your thyroid have a problems
    but
    you already know that

    what is your body temperature (oral if you have no sinuses problems or other oral infections/inflamations)

    You may need to test adrenals, or just (to play safe) support them while using thyroid hormones.

    If your DHT is over 100ng/dL while on transdermal-T
    you may have to switch to T-shots

    Thransdermals you are using daily,
    are you ready to do T-shots (and HCG-shots) every other day (with tiny and short needle, 31Ga)

    Stop any AS
    reason
    you will do much better naturally, but properly adjusted

    300mg/day of test is absolute waste
    we have to switch you to injections
    cypionate or enanthate (EOD with HCG)
    if you are in UK you have Nebido available, do not go over 15 days,
    I will figure out dose anf frequency for you.

    If you are covered with fat, lifting weights will not remove fat.

    Stop (98%) eating
    wheat
    rice
    potatoes
    sugar
    high-fructose
    hydrogynated fats

    .........

    You may be missing minerals, vitamins that support thyroid and adrenals,
    have you tested them?

    You may have RT3 (highly suspected if low body temp),
    do good thyroid testing
    you may need thyroid hormones with emphasis on T3, (that will push RT3 down)
    ----------------------------------------

    Look at my post #44,
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    list of tests between blue lines.

    that is where I am heading, can you do them?

    Look thru the 5 pages on that thread, may give you some ideas.

    Good luck!

    are you anywhere near zip 07410, my doc is there
    ...............
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    Thanks for the info JanSz. I will post the test result and answers to your questions shortly.
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    Starting with the most resent test, all from Labcorp in the Tampa Bay area.

    6/29/06
    Tsh 8.15 ref .45-4.5
    T4 6.9 ref 4.5-12
    t3 uptake 37 ref 24-39
    test serun 232 ref 241-827
    test free 9.12 ref 5.0-21
    This was the second test after having Armour dose increased and test cream 200mg/ml ED

    4/30/09
    Tsh 7.14 ref .45-4.5
    T4 7.8 ref 4.5-12
    t3 uptake 37 ref 24-39
    test serun 500 ref 241-827
    test free 22.35 ref 5.0-21
    This was he first test after having armour increased and also test cream 200mg/ml ED. I felt great at this time and started losing fat and gaining muscle.

    3/25/09
    Tsh 6.07 ref .45-4.5
    T4 8.2 ref 4.5-12
    t3 uptake 37 ref 24-39
    test serun 299 ref 241-827
    test free 10.38 ref 5.0-21
    This was the first test after being on Armor and test cream 100mg/ml. Felt like crap.

    1/21/09
    Tsh 4.261 ref .45-4.5
    T4 7.9 ref 4.5-12
    t3 uptake 36 ref 24-39
    test serun 285 ref 241-827
    test free 11.91 ref 5.0-21
    This was before I was given anything for my thyroid and no test cream. Baseline

    I have about 5 other test showing the same thing, low test & elevated TSH. I had one test that was a metabolic panel and it showed low C02. Strange.

    Body temp is typically low but I always sweat my ass off. usually 97F.

    How do I test the adrenals or support them?

    I am not scared of shots. When I did do AS I rarely exceeded 200mg/wk cyp or enth and was able to put on 20 lbs in 10 weeks. No pct, kept 15lbs usually.

    wheat- rarely eat any bread or grains
    rice- eat frequently
    potatoes- never
    sugar - hate sugar, don't eat. Have to constantly watch ketosis, not on purpose.
    high-fructose - none
    hydrogynated fats - olive oil only.

    You may be missing minerals, vitamins that support thyroid and adrenals,
    have you tested them? Like what?

    What is RT3?

    I will check out your post, that is some serious reading.

    Regular supps and meds:
    Serovent - asthma
    Albuterol - asthma
    Singulair - allergies
    Loratidine - allergies
    Armour - thyroid
    Test cream with chrysin 300mg/ml ED 150mg am & 150mg pm
    multi vit
    vit c
    tribulus
    zma
    cee
    bcaa
    l-lysine
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    An ACTH Stimulation Test can help access adrenal function.

    Since you said you felt like crap with your T4 at 8.2 (3/25/09 blood test), it may be that not enough T4 is being converted to T3, or your Reverse T3 may be elevated. See if you can get tested on total and free T3, and RT3.

    Proper levels of zinc and selenium are needed by the liver to convert T4 to T3.

    For healthy fat intake, olive oil is good for providing mono-saturated fat which helps raise HDL, but also consider coconut oil, which is a medium chain triglyceride to provide an excellent energy source. Some believe that coconut oil helps them lean out when it is used for muscle fuel. I buy the Jarro extra-virgin brand. Also, you need a healthy balance of Omega 6 and Omega 3. I recently discovered "Smart Balance" brand peanut butter which provides that for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    Everything below you must dicuss with your doc before implementing anything.
    Print this and discuss it with him.

    I would like to figure out for you good starting dose for testosterone.
    I need to know your last known SHBG level.
    If you do not have it, we will find it at the next blood test and make adjustments.
    For now lets do this:
    Testosterone enanthate or cypionate 200mg/mL schedule EOD, EveryOtherDay
    T-shot=0.2cc=20 units=40mg/EOD=140mg/week average
    HCG-shot=250iu
    do both shots one day next day free
    test 3 months after starting on this schedule draw blood on the day of the shot, time of shot, before shot
    I will post what tests to do below, combined with other tests.

    Use only these needles for (T & HCG shots)
    hocks.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Produ ct_Code=A910291
    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b

    ============================== =======================
    To support your adrenals I would like you to use Medrol.
    You may not utilize thyroid medications without properly working adrenals.
    Your current asthma and allergies medications may or may not interfere with this project.
    Discuss with your doctor throughly, have him research this topic using your particulars.
    To support your adrenals you want to do:

    Medrol-6mg/day
    either more convenient

    4mg/wakeup + 2mg/bed-time
    or
    3mg/wakeup + 2mg/mid-day + 1mg/bed-time

    whichever will work better for you

    I will post what tests to do below, combined with other tests.

    ============================== ========================
    You must be 2 weeks on Medrol before implementing anything below.

    You did not said what dose of Armour you doing,
    lately there is a problem with Armour's reformulation and strenght, it is unpredictable and weaker that old.
    We will drop Armour (gradually) and replace it with combination (T4 + T3)
    that is equal to about 3grains of Armour (the old style Armour) but have little more of T3
    that should help with your low body temperature
    The aim (at this phase) is to get your TSH around ~0.5
    But if next test discover antibody we will increase dose untill TSH<0.01

    Gradually get on daily dose of (Synthroid(T4)--100mcg) + (Cytomel(T3)--50mcg)
    Synthroid take once a day, Cytomel breake into 3x/day
    Any generic T4 and T3 is acceptable (from pharmacy, not from internet)
    Once a week have a dropefull of Lugol's solution in your cofee or any other acceptable way to make sure you have enough (just right) iodine/iodide.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    As soon as practical get Genova Diagnostics

    Elemental Hair Analysis
    Essential and Metabolic Fatty Acid Analysis (RBC)
    and
    SpectraCell-5000, Comprehensive Profile 5000 (713-621-3101)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    At 3 months into your new testosterone schedule
    and at least at
    8 weeks on full (Synthroid + Cytomel) schedule
    do this:

    If you can, do complete blood test posted at my post #44
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    between blue lines,

    if not, do this tests:

    4 --------- CBC w/ diff/PLT
    5 --------- Iodine
    6 --------- iodide
    7 --------- Selenium
    8 --------- Copper, serum
    9 --------- Zinc
    10 --------- Magnesium
    11 --------- Phosphate
    17 --------- Iron, Total
    18 --------- Ferritin
    25 --------- T3, Total
    26 --------- T4, Total
    27 --------- T3, Free
    28 --------- T4,Free
    29 --------- T3, Reverse
    30 --------- Ultrasensitive TSH
    31 --------- Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies
    33 --------- IGF Binding protein-3
    34 --------- IGF-1
    35 --------- DHEA Sulfate
    36 --------- Aldosterone
    xx --------- renin, sodium and potassium
    37 --------- ACTH, Plasma
    38 --------- Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin)
    39 --------- 8AM/4PM/10PM---Cortisol, Free and Total
    40 --------- Prolactin
    44 --------- Estradiol, sensitive
    46 --------- Total Testosterone
    47 --------- SHBG
    48 --------- Albumin
    49 --------- Dihydrotestosterone
    .
    .
    ============================== =====================
    .
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    Janz, wouldn't Medrol (Methylprednisolone) be a little too strong to start out with? You have to be careful with that stuff or it shuts down your adrenals. "Reset AD" or "Adrenal Rebuilder" products may be safer, or his doc could possibly prescribe hydrocortisone.

    Also, if one is using hcg, they may not need more than 100mg of testosterone per week, but everyone's response is different, so I'm not bashing your advice, just suggesting alternatives. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philec48 View Post
    Janz, wouldn't Medrol (Methylprednisolone) be a little too strong to start out with? You have to be careful with that stuff or it shuts down your adrenals. "Reset AD" or "Adrenal Rebuilder" products may be safer, or his doc could possibly prescribe hydrocortisone.

    Also, if one is using hcg, they may not need more than 100mg of testosterone per week, but everyone's response is different, so I'm not bashing your advice, just suggesting alternatives. :-)
    I do not mind open discussion, this is how I learn.
    I am not a doctor, (just remaining).
    Sometimes I am proud of not being a doctor when I see what some of them advice.

    ============================== =========================
    One have to start dosing somewhere.
    Goals will take care of any excesses or low dosing.

    6mg-Medrol=30mg-Cortef

    I found 4x/day(Cortef) dosing a drag, impacting my QOL and often not sufficient if I forget and slip in couple of extra hours.
    Medrol should be more forgiving.

    Above dose should not suppress adrenals.
    ============================== ===========================
    ============================== ===========================
    My own Goals
    DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL(13.55-17.34)µmol/L------------------major player, 95% time overlooked
    Progesterone(0.9-1.2)ng/mL LEF
    Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL) Herthoge presentation
    Estradiol, Ultrasensitive(25-29)pg/mL Hertoghe book
    Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
    do not use Anastrozole if possible or minimize its use
    BATest(342, 460-575)ng/dL------------stay around 342 if you need more than 1.5mg/week Anastrozole to control E2 (upper 1/4 range)
    DHT(60-90)ng/dL (I am active when it gets over or under this range)
    RT3 in lower half of range, TotalT3 in upper 1/3 range
    FreeT3~400pg/dL or higher if TotalT3 goal not reached
    TotalT4>bottom of range
    Oral temperature (36.25 - 36.80)C = (97.25 - 98.24)F (no sinus or oral infections)
    ###
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    Thanks Janz, I just now saw the book at Amazon "The Hormone Solution". It was eye opening to read part of it online and see the charts showing how various hormones declined with age.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philec48 View Post
    Thanks Janz, I just now saw the book at Amazon "The Hormone Solution". It was eye opening to read part of it online and see the charts showing how various hormones declined with age.
    http://www.prolibraries.com

    Provides lots of information and details.

    Search on more outspoken names.

    Shippen
    Crysler
    Braveman
    Rothenberg
    Gordon



    many others





    .
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    I have no idea what my SHBG levels are. I can get tested for that soon. I would not mnd starting the shots. I am not feeling great with the cream at all.

    I am truly scared of Medrol. It is a steroid. The reason I say this is I feel the steroids in my inhailers got me to where I am now. They put me on Symbicort and Advair. After I used these 2 inhailers, that is when my problems with my test and thyroid began. I never had any issues with anything before the use of these. What other way can I support my adrenals with no steroid?

    The Armour dose is 60mg. It was increased from 30mg after my TSH was still high. I am currently supplimenting iodine.

    There ar alot of blood tests requested here. I get all Labcorp tests for free through my insurance. Is there a test that covers most of these or are they all individual tests? How do Labcorps test rate as far as quality? I will be going for testing this week so a quick answer would be appreciated.
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    I was looking at a blood test from a year ago and noticed my FSH was low, <1 ref 1.4-18.1. What role would this have on anything? This was before starting any HRT or thyroid therapy.
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    FSH is the signal that tells the testicles to make sperm.

    HCG mimics both LH and FSH.
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    These are the test I will getting done this week.

    DHT - 500142
    ACTH Plasma - 004440
    DHEA sulfate- 004697
    RT3 - 002212
    T3 Free, Serum - 010389
    Estrodiol - 140244
    SHBG - 082016
    Testosterone Function Profile III - 058925
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    Is the test, ACTH Plasma - 004440, the same as ACTH AM & PM?
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    LabCorp Code for ACTH to test before and after cortisol:

    Test Number: 140761 CPT Code: 82533(x2)
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    Doc prescribed Arimidex 1mg EOD. Would it be better to take .5mg ED or as advised?
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    Any input guys? What is a good starting dose for Arimidex?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philec48 View Post
    FSH is the signal that tells the testicles to make sperm.

    HCG mimics both LH and FSH.
    HCG mimics LH

    HMG mimics FSH

    They are two completely different peptides, but you can buy a combination of the two as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    HCG mimics LH

    HMG mimics FSH

    They are two completely different peptides, but you can buy a combination of the two as well.
    Isnt hmg very expensive?

    I have heard it cost $500 per month but could be way off.

    I would prefer to use hmg.
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    yeah it's super expensive
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    HCG mimics LH

    HMG mimics FSH

    They are two completely different peptides, but you can buy a combination of the two as well.
    For the purpose of maintaining testosterone and sperm production, HCG does indeed "mimic" LH and FSH, in that it stimulates the leydig cells. The proof for this is that 99% of men on TRT who were fertile prior to going on TRT will maintain their fertility when adding HCG alone, if done early enough.

    Now, it is technically correct that HMG more properly mimics FSH. FSH's main function is to stimulate the leydig cells to make more receptors for LH. My initial answer, though not as technically correct as yours was still "right" for the purpose for which it was intended, which was to suggest that with HCG one can maintain fertility. Why buy the super expensive HMG if it is not needed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philec48 View Post
    Why buy the super expensive HMG if it is not needed?
    To be like Peter North
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    Philec48, So the ACTH test, they inject you with something and they check you response? Has anyone ever done a ACTH test?
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    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    I have no idea what my SHBG levels are. I can get tested for that soon. I would not mnd starting the shots. I am not feeling great with the cream at all.

    I am truly scared of Medrol. It is a steroid. The reason I say this is I feel the steroids in my inhailers got me to where I am now. They put me on Symbicort and Advair. After I used these 2 inhailers, that is when my problems with my test and thyroid began. I never had any issues with anything before the use of these. What other way can I support my adrenals with no steroid?

    The Armour dose is 60mg. It was increased from 30mg after my TSH was still high. I am currently supplimenting iodine.

    There ar alot of blood tests requested here. I get all Labcorp tests for free through my insurance. Is there a test that covers most of these or are they all individual tests? How do Labcorps test rate as far as quality? I will be going for testing this week so a quick answer would be appreciated.
    Scared of Medrol is RIGHT.
    You have to figure out what is that you are getting with those inhalers.

    That have to be compared to 30mg of Cortef/day
    If you are taking that much, you are covered.
    If you are not taking that dose, you will have to make it up.
    In addition your doc will have to figure out what are you going to do in case of high stress.
    Normally you would take little extra Cortef, possibly few more whiffs of inhaler.

    After you stabilized your adrenals with (2 inhalers + Cortef)
    you may either stay on that or replace the Cortef part with Medrol.
    Medrol is longer acting, you should have less ups and downs, more stable ride.

    The idea is to support adrenals while they are going to be stressed by additional thyroid hormones that will have to be processed.

    Then you have to figure out right dose of thyroid hormones.
    Use my goals to figure out those doses.
    Between your natural (low) production and supplementation you will be processing just right amount of thyroid hormones when you achieve those goals.
    ============================== ==========
    ============================== ==========
    List for use at LabCorp
    ============================== ==========
    1 --------- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel w/EGFR
    2 --------- Hepatic Function Panel
    3 --------- VAP TM Cholesterol Test
    4 --------- CBC w/ diff/PLT
    5 --------- Iodine
    6 --------- iodide
    7 --------- Selenium
    8 --------- Copper, serum
    9 --------- Zinc
    10 --------- Magnesium
    11 --------- Phosphate
    12 --------- C-Reactive Protein (CRP), Highly Sensitive, CSF
    13 --------- Fibrinogen
    14 --------- Homocysteine, cardio
    15 --------- Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
    16 --------- Iron and Iron Binding Capacity
    17 --------- Iron, Total
    18 --------- Ferritin
    19 --------- Transferrin
    20 --------- Folate, RBC & Hematocrit
    21 --------- Hemoglobin A1c
    22 --------- Hemoglobin, Plasma
    23 --------- VITAMIN A, E, B3, B12
    24 --------- Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy
    25 --------- T3, Total
    26 --------- T4, Total
    27 --------- T3, Free
    28 --------- T4,Free
    29 --------- T3, Reverse
    30 --------- Ultrasensitive TSH
    31 --------- Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies
    32 --------- Insuline, serum
    33 --------- IGF Binding protein-3
    34 --------- IGF-1
    35 --------- DHEA Sulfate
    36 --------- Aldosterone
    37 --------- ACTH, Plasma
    38 --------- Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin)
    39 --------- 8AM/4PM/10PM---Cortisol, Free and Total
    40 --------- Prolactin
    41 --------- Progesterone
    42 --------- Pregnenolone
    43 --------- Androstenedione
    44 --------- Estradiol, sensitive
    45 --------- Estrone
    46 --------- Total Testosterone
    47 --------- SHBG
    48 --------- Albumin
    49 --------- Dihydrotestosterone
    50 --------- Ceruloplasmin
    51 --------- Coenzyme Q10
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    244.9 ----- 257.2 ----- 780.79
    250.00 ----- 272.4 ----- 788.41
    250.01 ----- 601.9 ----- 253.3
    255.4 ----- 780.4 ----- 255.8
    783.9 -----
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    Philec48, So the ACTH test, they inject you with something and they check you response? Has anyone ever done a ACTH test?
    Serum ACTH test by itself doesn't give much info. It's the "ACTH Stimulation" test that helps access adrenals.

    First there is a blood draw for cortisol, then immediately a shot of ACTH, and after one hour another blood draw for cortisol. Sometimes aldosterone is also tested, but only if the doc specifies.

    This test should be done early - 7:00am or so, but at least before 10am, before cortisol level starts to rise.

    Not too much sodium or carbs eaten 24 hours before test, and 6 to 8 hours fasting right before blood draws.

    I had the blood draws and ACTH injection, but when the hospital staff sent it out for testing, they only ordered ACTH, and didn't include cortisol. They agreed to refund my deposit. Makes me another statistic for medical mistakes. Just glad it wasn't a serious one! Those people are paid to pay attention to detail. Makes you wonder.

    I decided not to have it done again. I'll just assume my adrenals need a little help and have started to use Siberian Ginseng and also (cautiously) pregnenolone 30mg per day. At some point I may do the 4x saliva cortisol test.
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    JanSz, I have discontinued the use of those inhalers over 1.5 years ago. I truly felt like death while I was using them! That is why I stopped them. I felt better when I did but then started to have the thyroid and test issues. The only inhaler I am currently using is a long acting bronchial dilator.

    Are you trying to suggest that with the use of corticosteroids will help support my adrenals? I was under the assumption that the corticosteroids put my adreanls under stress? Please clarify.

    Thanks for the explanation Phil. I will be going for the test at 7am so the fasting should not be a problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    JanSz, I have discontinued the use of those inhalers over 1.5 years ago. I truly felt like death while I was using them! That is why I stopped them. I felt better when I did but then started to have the thyroid and test issues. The only inhaler I am currently using is a long acting bronchial dilator.

    Are you trying to suggest that with the use of corticosteroids will help support my adrenals? I was under the assumption that the corticosteroids put my adreanls under stress? Please clarify.

    Thanks for the explanation Phil. I will be going for the test at 7am so the fasting should not be a problem.
    I do not know what you are actually using.
    But my above precautions DEFINITELY apply.
    -------------------------------------------------------
    For example

    Advair

    is long acting bronchial dilator


    Advair contains fluticasone and salmeterol.

    Fluticasone is a synthetic corticosteroid.

    Corticosteroids are a class of steroid hormones that are produced in the adrenal cortex.


    .
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    I am only using Serovent which contains salmeterol. This is just a bronchodilator.
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    I did my blood tests this morning. Strange thing is, I had the Cortisol ACTH stimulation test and they did not inject anything and I did not have to stick around for any further testing. Did they do something wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by punxweb View Post
    I am only using Serovent which contains salmeterol. This is just a bronchodilator.
    You better tripple check each and every medicine,
    plus be on alert with any new medicines,

    but

    off hand you should be able to take

    30mg/dayCortef

    Cortef=HC=Hydrocortisone

    30mgCortef=6mgMedrol

    I must tell you that I feel much more smooth after I switched to Medrol.

    I tried versions,
    best work for me

    4mg/wakeup +2mg/sometimes afternoon
    ============================== ===============

    .


    .
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post

    Cortef=HC=Hydrocortisone

    30mgCortef=6mgMedrol

    I must tell you that I feel much more smooth after I switched to Medrol.

    I tried versions,
    best work for me

    4mg/wakeup +2mg/sometimes afternoon
    ============================== ===============

    .
    JanSz did you try using florinef when you were taking HC? It greatly extends the life + action of the HC, as well as having other benefits. I think using florinef allows someone to minimize their use of HC.
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    It's not an ACTH Stim test if they don't inject ACTH. They probably just drew for serum cortisol and ACTH.
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    Jansz--Are you recommending an insulin pin for Test Cyp? Why? I thought it should be shot IM? Where are you injecting then? What is the reason for EOD? Are you saying do HCG on your non Test days?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    JanSz did you try using florinef when you were taking HC? It greatly extends the life + action of the HC, as well as having other benefits. I think using florinef allows someone to minimize their use of HC.
    To figure out if you need Florinef

    best do these tests:

    -----------------------------------------------------
    HYPERTENSION PROFILE 1 88401A
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...ml&labCode=QTE
    ------------------------------------------------

    CPT Code(s): PROF
    Preferred Specimen(s)
    SEE INDIVIDUAL TEST COMPONENTS BELOW
    Test Components
    •17181X - ALDOSTERONE,LC/MS/MS
    •11316X - POTASSIUM W/OCREAT 24HR U
    •10537T - RENIN ACTIVITY,PLASMA
    •11317X - SODIUM W/O CREAT,24-HR UR

    ============================== ============================== =========

    You may start with blood only
    Aldosterone
    potassium
    renin
    sodium
    =============================
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pace2 View Post
    Jansz--Are you recommending an insulin pin for Test Cyp? Why? I thought it should be shot IM? Where are you injecting then? What is the reason for EOD? Are you saying do HCG on your non Test days?
    I am recommending very frequent testosterone and HCG applications.
    daily transdermal-T
    daily injectable-T

    I do them myself.
    I do EOD because I am not able/willing to do every day two shots.

    I do (T + HCG) one day next day free.
    .
    Because the shots are very frequent I need very small volume of each shot.

    I do not care what size needle one uses.
    Masochists would think the bigger the better.
    I use 3/10 insulin syringes 31Ga 5/16" long needle

    ---------------------
    I use 175mg/week testosterone
    my shots are
    T-shot=40mg=20units=0.2cc
    HCG-shot=400iu

    -------------------------
    For over a year I was not using Arimidex.
    Now I am back on Anastrozole.
    I take 0.1cc=0.1mg with my shots, 0.1*7/2=0.35mg/week
    .
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    I should know my blood test results tomorrow. I will post them and look forward to some insight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    To figure out if you need Florinef

    best do these tests:

    -----------------------------------------------------
    HYPERTENSION PROFILE 1 88401A
    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...ml&labCode=QTE
    ------------------------------------------------

    CPT Code(s): PROF
    Preferred Specimen(s)
    SEE INDIVIDUAL TEST COMPONENTS BELOW
    Test Components
    •17181X - ALDOSTERONE,LC/MS/MS
    •11316X - POTASSIUM W/OCREAT 24HR U
    •10537T - RENIN ACTIVITY,PLASMA
    =

    Yes, this is true. But have you tried it yourself? It greatly extends the half-life of cortisol. Might be a better option than medrol. I've heard medrol can easily shutdown your adrenals if you aren't careful...

    Personally, I tried taking liquorice root extract for about a month with my cortisol and noticed that it extends the effects of my cortisol dosage. Flourinef works just like liquorice extract but even better/stronger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Yes, this is true. But have you tried it yourself? It greatly extends the half-life of cortisol. Might be a better option than medrol. I've heard medrol can easily shutdown your adrenals if you aren't careful...

    Personally, I tried taking liquorice root extract for about a month with my cortisol and noticed that it extends the effects of my cortisol dosage. Flourinef works just like liquorice extract but even better/stronger.
    No, I did not tried Florinef.
    =============================

    Do you have some ideas of how to look at

    aldosterone
    potassium
    renin
    sodium

    numbers, when using and adjusting Florinef doses?

    I am missing good discussion on this topic.
    .
    .
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    No I haven't looked too much into flourinef until recently.

    I used licorice root extract which is similar but not as strong, so you can basically play with doses without worrying about side effects too much, except for possible elevated blood pressure.

    Flourinef on the other hand, has to be carefully monitored by a Dr. I did not know about testing renin, but I knew low aldosterone (and electrolyte imbalance) is cause for needing flourinef.
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