My estradiol is 40, arimidex?

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    My estradiol is 40, arimidex?


    Hi Guys,
    Got my tests back:

    Estradiol 40pg/ml range is 0-44

    Total test 750ng/dl range 245-1600

    Free test 14 pg/ml range 7.2-23

    So I THINK this means that my test is fine, but the estradiol is high.
    I have a box of arimidex, so I am thinking to take .25mg twice a week. Does this look like a good plan?
    Thanks

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    I'm no expert but it seems your T to E ratio is pretty good. Generally, with high T comes a higher level of E by default. If you are seeing symptoms of high E..stubborn bf, puffy nips etc then maybe an AI is indicated, however I'd go with natural products myself.
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    I was under the impression from reading others posts, that estradiol should be between 20-30, with closer to 20 working better for most people. Also, wouldn't that allow more free androgen receptors for the testosterone to bind to?
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    *For most people*. Some people might just have higher E2 and still be optimal. You could try lowering it with that dose of Adex and see if you feel any change. Can you redraw bloodwork in a month?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    *For most people*. Some people might just have higher E2 and still be optimal. You could try lowering it with that dose of Adex and see if you feel any change. Can you redraw bloodwork in a month?
    First of all this test is not a valid test for a male (13-54) or 3-70 or <29 or the proper tests. One would have to know shbg to adjust e2.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Sensitive, or even UltraSensitive is preferred, agreed. Does the OP have access to them at a reasonable cost in Costa Rica though? It would be best IMO to get a full picture first before doing anything.
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    I have an appointment with the doctor today to go over the results. She mostly deals with women though. I think I may be her first male patient as most men down here would NEVER admit to problems, and thus wouldn't seek help. She is the only doc I know of with an understanding of hormonal problems.
    I still may try .25 mg twice a week and then retest in a couple of months. Shouldn't it drive up my testosterone a bit?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Cheese View Post
    I have an appointment with the doctor today to go over the results. She mostly deals with women though. I think I may be her first male patient as most men down here would NEVER admit to problems, and thus wouldn't seek help. She is the only doc I know of with an understanding of hormonal problems.
    I still may try .25 mg twice a week and then retest in a couple of months. Shouldn't it drive up my testosterone a bit?
    You said all you need to say you got the wrong estrogen test. If you had a pair of tits and vagina you be golden LOL
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Thanks. I will tell her its the wrong test.

    I was reading about shbg and Wiki seems to say you can tell how much you have by the total to free test ratio. Mine looks pretty average, I would think, if you look at my first post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Cheese View Post
    Thanks. I will tell her its the wrong test.

    I was reading about shbg and Wiki seems to say you can tell how much you have by the total to free test ratio. Mine looks pretty average, I would think, if you look at my first post.
    I just run total T and shbg for T thats it.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Well, she looked at the results and said my test was a little low. She prescribed 2% testosterone cream made by the local compounding pharmacy. Then she told me to get total test only tested again after 15 days. I know for a fact that most people feel great on the cream for 2 weeks until their estrogen starts to rise as cream raises estrogen more than injections. Anyway, I will try it and see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Cheese View Post
    Well, she looked at the results and said my test was a little low. She prescribed 2% testosterone cream made by the local compounding pharmacy. Then she told me to get total test only tested again after 15 days. I know for a fact that most people feel great on the cream for 2 weeks until their estrogen starts to rise as cream raises estrogen more than injections. Anyway, I will try it and see.


    your total test is at 750 and you got a script? WOW....
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    Yep, she said "Well, your total is a little low. I will write a prescription for testosterone creme. That is what you want, right?"
    Some things are much easier down here, others....
    Anyway, I've been on the creme for a week now, and I feel much more assertive. Its nice. I don't know how much it will help in the gym though, I would think that it would be a minor boost, maybe have an effect over a year or so.
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    ROFL. 750!!!! dude thats what most on here shoot for after therapy. how old are you? im 26 and have 350
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    Why would you use the creme when you already have enough man? It's just going to screw your own production up. 750 is pretty much optimal levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blastedlooger View Post
    Why would you use the creme when you already have enough man? It's just going to screw your own production up. 750 is pretty much optimal levels.
    not our place to tell him that. if he wants to, go for it man. could be a nice cycle. but, you dont need therapy
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    Quote Originally Posted by DT5 View Post
    not our place to tell him that. if he wants to, go for it man. could be a nice cycle. but, you dont need therapy
    What was the testosterone reference range?
    All labs very some goto 1600.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Yeah, it went to 1600. I'm 46. I am feeling pretty good and don't feel like stopping. I have a 100 gram tube and I'm doing maybe 1.2 grams a day. I will get my total test done again in 8 days and report back. If this shuts me down, do you think it will be a big deal to restart the boys after, say, 3 months? I'm not sure what options I would have here, I could look for HCG injections I suppose....
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    46 and your at 750? WOW. Personally, I think your nuts screwing with that. If you wanna boost because of E2 problems, Arimidex would be your best bet. Otherwise, hCG. Youre risking a permanent shut down unless you cycle it with proper PCT. What's that you ask??? LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    46 and your at 750? WOW. Personally, I think your nuts screwing with that. If you wanna boost because of E2 problems, Arimidex would be your best bet. Otherwise, hCG. Youre risking a permanent shut down unless you cycle it with proper PCT. What's that you ask??? LOL
    I would not suprise if your levels are going to be lower then what you started with as your body is going to sense the negative feed back loop and shout your own down. Hes on the board line. I would have given some hcg to see if that would give him an intial boost then direct gel it self.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Just read a study over on ergo.log that Nolvadex is best for restoring test. Looks like I can just do 20mg. per day for a month at the end and fix it. I really don't think that 1.2 grams of 2% cream per day is going to crank me up much, as that is 24 mg. per day, or 168 mg. per week transdermal. Not sure how much will actually make it to the blood as absorption rates seem to vary wildly among different people, so it is possible that I won't see a change and that I am experiencing placebo effects. Anyway, I have 28 tabs of arimidex, so I am going to add .25 mg. twice a week while I am on this. I guess my tentative plan is to finish this tube, which will last about 3 months, then do a month of Nolvadex at 20mg. per day (if it is available). Then wait a month and retest everything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Cheese View Post
    Just read a study over on ergo.log that Nolvadex is best for restoring test. Looks like I can just do 20mg. per day for a month at the end and fix it. I really don't think that 1.2 grams of 2% cream per day is going to crank me up much, as that is 24 mg. per day, or 168 mg. per week transdermal. Not sure how much will actually make it to the blood as absorption rates seem to vary wildly among different people, so it is possible that I won't see a change and that I am experiencing placebo effects. Anyway, I have 28 tabs of arimidex, so I am going to add .25 mg. twice a week while I am on this. I guess my tentative plan is to finish this tube, which will last about 3 months, then do a month of Nolvadex at 20mg. per day (if it is available). Then wait a month and retest everything.
    Sounds good on paper but in order for it to occur adrenals, thyroid must be in healthy order other wise it will not. This is why people fail on restarts or lack building blocks to make the hormones and activate the receptors.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Well, the Matrix called it. I have been on 2% cream for a little over two months, taking 1/4 tab of arimidex on Monday and Thursday and my test has went down from 750 to 419. Yeah, I should have left well enough alone. I sent the doc the results and I would imagine that she will bump me up to the 5% cream. Maybe I should try to just get off it completely?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Cheese View Post
    Well, the Matrix called it. I have been on 2% cream for a little over two months, taking 1/4 tab of arimidex on Monday and Thursday and my test has went down from 750 to 419. Yeah, I should have left well enough alone. I sent the doc the results and I would imagine that she will bump me up to the 5% cream. Maybe I should try to just get off it completely?
    May be next time you will listen LOL Its a learning experience which i have been through so I already know the out come. After certain percentage you do not aborb and I be checking adrenals and thyroid ASAP
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Cheese View Post
    Well, the Matrix called it. I have been on 2% cream for a little over two months, taking 1/4 tab of arimidex on Monday and Thursday and my test has went down from 750 to 419. Yeah, I should have left well enough alone. I sent the doc the results and I would imagine that she will bump me up to the 5% cream. Maybe I should try to just get off it completely?
    You ought to one thing: Get of the test, like pretty much everyone recommended. Your test is already optimal. Why **** with optimal? If your girlfriend had perfect breasts, would you make them bigger? (Rhetorical.)

    If you take Adex, and your E2 is high, it will boost your T by a fair bit. But first you need to take the right damn test.

    I don't understand why people play with their bodies like they are home chemistry sets. It's truly idiotic, like your doctor.
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    Yeah, I hear you. So now I have to fix it. How is this for a plan?
    Stop the cream.
    .25mg arimidex MWF
    Nolvadex 20mg. per day for a month.
    I can try to find some HCG, but I am pretty sure it isn't available here.
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    Fried Cheese, DON'T stop the cream. Try the stronger one and also ask for hCG. People in this thread are not following you properly.

    Your test is CLEARLY not optimal.

    The reason your test levels dropped is because the T cream shutdown your natural production. hCG will resolve this. Do a search on Dr. Crisler's hCG protocol for TRT. Print that off and show this to your doctor.

    Check these quotes:

    46 and your at 750? WOW. Personally, I think your nuts screwing with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    What was the testosterone reference range?
    All labs very some goto 1600.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Cheese View Post
    Yeah, it went to 1600.

    So your test is 750, on a range that goes to 1600. This puts you in the low normal range for this test, and makes you a candidate for test therapy.

    I think too many people are confusing this level with the typical 280-900 range. If you had done that test, your range would be in the 300's. Ranges and tests all very, depending on who is doing the tests. Not all tests are done the same.


    If you are going to follow on T therapy, look into adding hCG to keep baseline levels going, and also look into adrenals and thyroid as well. Issues with adrenals and thyroid can cause problems with absorbing the gels and cream. Some people also follow up with T therapy and find they still don't feel 100%, so this is why we recommend people to always look into adrenal and thyroid issues first, as well as nutritional imbalances.

    After you have got your T + E levels properly balanced, and your adrenals and thyroid are optimal, and you still don't feel too great.... then look into DHT levels. Some people (like myself) are poor T=>DHT converters. DHT in the upper range is your goal on TRT to feel good.
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    You seem to use "normal" and "typical" to describe the distribution of test levels in a certain sample at a certain point in time. Just because the range goes up to 1600 doesn't mean that the test is different. It could be that there are still men there with "normal" test values.
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    It's a completely different test and value. Try going to 3 completely different labs and see if they all test the same. Try out Quest, Labcorp, and Genova... I can tell you from experience that they are different.

    Look at your results, in comparison to the range given for that test, and that will tell you where you are at. The range is given for a reason and not every lab has the same ranges.
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    This I don't disagree with. I'm just saying that there are still parts of the world where men have natural levels of 1600 and that is consistent with any inherent test variability.
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    some of you guys are retarded. its in ng/dl. lol

    It doesn't matter what the range says. 750ng/dl is 750ng/dl. Its pretty DAMN high. The mean for a 20year old is 700-900.

    When you take cream, its only potent enough to put you in the optimal area. Thats 700-900. Of course, when you first start, you'll feel amazing because of endogenous+exogenous...then when your own battery dies off, your left at the optimized range with the cream, if you are absorbing it.

    If you want 1600 levels, you might as well be "on cycle". Go get some testosterone cyp at 250mg/week. There you go. That MIGHT get you to 1600.

    1600 is NOT normal high. Its way way way high......have you ever heard of Outliers in statistics? 1600 is an Outlier, just like 250 is an Outlier. Extreme outlier values greatly affect the arithmetic mean. So, if the average* range for male test is 250-1600, calculated from a small sample group of guys, and 2 guys had 1600 and the rest had 600-700, the mean is going to be WAY off. Therefore, you can't say 250 is not normal and say that 1600 is normal....250 is definitely way below what the average SHOULD be, and 1600 is way above what the average should be.
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    Males today have 30% less testosterone than they had 20 years ago, adjusted for age group. If you take 1600 as the highest back then and take away 30% from it you end up with about 1100 which is top of the range for the other total T test by Labcorp, not the one that runs from 247 to 827.

    Lab ranges could be min and max or 25th and 75th percentile or Mth percentile and Nth percentile.

    I see you know your statistics well, weren't you a student of my at a large public unviersity that starts with P years ago?

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    Machinehead, given the range and my levels, what would you suggest might be an optimum number to shoot for? Monsterbox is saying that the best I can hope for with cream is 700-900. I understand it is not linear, but it seems if I went from 2% to 10% cream that I should be able to increase quite a bit from the 419 I am at now. I have certainly noticed a decrease in drive in all areas of my life due to the drop. I would like to increase from my original 750 to maybe 950, on the assumption that it would result in a moderate performance increase at the gym over, say, the next two years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fried Cheese View Post
    Machinehead, given the range and my levels, what would you suggest might be an optimum number to shoot for? Monsterbox is saying that the best I can hope for with cream is 700-900. I understand it is not linear, but it seems if I went from 2% to 10% cream that I should be able to increase quite a bit from the 419 I am at now. I have certainly noticed a decrease in drive in all areas of my life due to the drop. I would like to increase from my original 750 to maybe 950, on the assumption that it would result in a moderate performance increase at the gym over, say, the next two years.
    first of all, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought you had a level of 750 to begin with and some doctor gave you cream? What was your estradiol when you were normal at 750. If you E is high, you could bring it down and you Free T would go up substantially.

    Your E might be high on the cream, or you might not be absorbing the cream. My father went on cream and it dropped him significantly below his baseline after 3 months. He felt terrible. Then he switched compounds and felt a little better and his total t went from 400s > 800's. Then he decided to try formex because his E2 was 56. Now he feels rediculously good and I'm betting his free T is way higher.


    Seems to me, that if you had T levels of 750, you shouldn't be on TRT for any reason at all. Just do steroid cycles once in a while if you want a boost. And, I've never seen anyone on 200mg/week of cream go above 1000.
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    That would depend on your SHBG but I think 1000 and above perhaps? I am at 700 with mid-level SHBG but feel like I am castrated. I probably need to double my free test to feel normal although I am "normal" according to the ranges. I'd say go by how you feel and not by the numbers but doctors like to play the numbers game or are often forced to. I'm afraid the gel is not the answer for most.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    That would depend on your SHBG but I think 1000 and above perhaps? I am at 700 with mid-level SHBG but feel like I am castrated. I probably need to double my free test to feel normal although I am "normal" according to the ranges. I'd say go by how you feel and not by the numbers but doctors like to play to numbers game or are often forced to. I'm afraid the gel is not the answer for most.
    yes, your totally correct with the SHBG deal. I'm at 550, I have a little libido, don't know how?, but my SHBG is 28! I'm only 20.

    Generally, if you take an AI it will drop your SHBG substantially...I guess high E causes a high SHBG which in turn causes low-Free T. However, if you have low-E, like me (my E2 is 6!) theres nothing you can do except TRT.

    An example:
    TT - 800ng/dl
    SHBG - 39
    Estradiol - 55

    ^that person would feel like a noodle d*ck. However, if they took some A-dex, dropped the Estradiol down to low 20's, or better yet, Proviron! the SHBG would come way down and the Free T would go WAY up. They would feel like a new person, without TRT.
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    For blood testing use my list at post #44, between blue lines.
    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    That list is meant for Quest Diagnostics, blood drawn at Quest.
    For specifications look at my post #137 (Engine specs)
    also post #26 here:
    ----------http://muscle chatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

    (if someone tells me how to post tables here I will transfer data to this board)

    If it is not possible to go to Quest,
    PM me for modified list.

    To figure adequacy of testosterone dose:

    #1-dose (T & HCG) ED or EOD(EveryOtherDay)
    #2-get TotalTest, SHBG and Albumin
    #3-get this chart:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=Rab...ruthers&pg=PR2

    you want FreeT(250-300) on that chart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    yes, your totally correct with the SHBG deal. I'm at 550, I have a little libido, don't know how?, but my SHBG is 28! I'm only 20.

    Generally, if you take an AI it will drop your SHBG substantially...I guess high E causes a high SHBG which in turn causes low-Free T. However, if you have low-E, like me (my E2 is 6!) theres nothing you can do except TRT.

    An example:
    TT - 800ng/dl
    SHBG - 39
    Estradiol - 55

    ^that person would feel like a noodle d*ck. However, if they took some A-dex, dropped the Estradiol down to low 20's, or better yet, Proviron! the SHBG would come way down and the Free T would go WAY up. They would feel like a new person, without TRT.
    This method works, but its a stop gap because there is a reason why it is low which could be thyroid/adrenal related or excessive body fat or excessive soy, altered estrogen metaoblism issues. These need to be explored first.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  

  
 

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