How to keep from becoming sterile on TRT

[DT5]

so im on 200mg of cyp a week and have been on for 16-17 weeks now i think. Im planning on staying on this for a long long time.

I currently cut my HCG consumption down a bit because its expensive and i travel alot, so i plan to hit it twice a week now at 330iu (monday and friday).
Will this get the job done? im not looking for 100% functioning testes, but enough that i shouldnt have any issues making babies when I need to.
Im 26 yr old.

 

[rick055]

so im on 200mg of cyp a week and have been on for 16-17 weeks now i think. Im planning on staying on this for a long long time.

I currently cut my HCG consumption down a bit because its expensive and i travel alot, so i plan to hit it twice a week now at 330iu (monday and friday).
Will this get the job done? im not looking for 100% functioning testes, but enough that i shouldnt have any issues making babies when I need to.
Im 26 yr old.

There are no guarantees with fertility and you should always check with a doctor.

Also - and I am not pontificating - if you're 26 why are you on T? Is it a medical necesssity?

As for fertility, I am a patient of Dr. Crisler's and follow his protocol. I was on TRT for over 2 years, and fathered a child in January.

 

[DT5]

There are no guarantees with fertility and you should always check with a doctor.

Also - and I am not pontificating - if you're 26 why are you on T? Is it a medical necesssity?

As for fertility, I am a patient of Dr. Crisler's and follow his protocol. I was on TRT for over 2 years, and fathered a child in January.

what was your total test? my naturally was 350 at age 25 (ridiculous) and life sucked. thats why im on TRT.

 

[rick055]

what was your total test? my naturally was 350 at age 25 (ridiculous) and life sucked. thats why im on TRT.

About the same, I was 36 when I began TRT.

I was clearly symptomatic with no symptoms being adequately resolved by other means.

 

[The Matrix]

About the same, I was 36 when I began TRT.

I was clearly symptomatic with no symptoms being adequately resolved by other means.

If you are shooting once a week then do hcg the 2 days before your shot is do
If shooting bi weekly (monday, thursday) then shoot hcg day before shot
If EOD then shot hcg in between shots.

Hope this helps

 

[DT5]

so i could just do sunday, and shoot about 500iu? that should keep me good right?
i do mon thru test shots.

 

[monsterbox]

I am 20. My TT is only 326 at 8am. I have an awesome sex drive and I would have never guessed except for the fact that I have drastic mood changes all the time. I also train extremely hard and eat ALOT of food and its hard to gain muscle all my life. Only thing that worked was Epistane which made me gain near 15lbs in one cycle a year ago.

I have a stage II varicocele...I dont know if this is the cause of my low test or not but I"M going to an endo to get to the bottom of it tommorrow and hopefully try HCG+Clomid and varicocele surgery first. However for some reason I just see myself going on TRT. I dont understand how fixing the varicocele and HCG treatment for a little while would boost me 800 levels for my age. I can see maybe a 100pt increase after all this...

So, I'm probably going to face TRT for the rest of my life from age 20 I'm abosutely terrified of the affect on estrogen and LH/FSH. I really want to remain fertile or be able to become fertile in a short period of time when I'm ready to have kids.

Do you guys suggest storing sperm in sperm bank? Can it be stored for long long period of time....like if I decided for children in 20 years it would be possible to extract? I'm too very worried about feritlity. I wouldn't mind injecting HCG along with testosterone supplementation, but doesn't HCG gradually desensitize the testicles over time and cause further aromatization? I know HCG mimics LH so it would keep the Leydig cells alive and my natural 300 level testosterone pumping, but still, wouldn't the Serotoli Sperm cells die from lack of FSH? Also HCG is extremely hard to find and is very expensive.

 

[bigdeepsquats]

I am 20. My TT is only 326 at 8am. I have an awesome sex drive and I would have never guessed except for the fact that I have drastic mood changes all the time. I also train extremely hard and eat ALOT of food and its hard to gain muscle all my life. Only thing that worked was Epistane which made me gain near 15lbs in one cycle a year ago.

I have a stage II varicocele...I dont know if this is the cause of my low test or not but I"M going to an endo to get to the bottom of it tommorrow and hopefully try HCG+Clomid and varicocele surgery first. However for some reason I just see myself going on TRT. I dont understand how fixing the varicocele and HCG treatment for a little while would boost me 800 levels for my age. I can see maybe a 100pt increase after all this...

So, I'm probably going to face TRT for the rest of my life from age 20 I'm abosutely terrified of the affect on estrogen and LH/FSH. I really want to remain fertile or be able to become fertile in a short period of time when I'm ready to have kids.

Do you guys suggest storing sperm in sperm bank? Can it be stored for long long period of time....like if I decided for children in 20 years it would be possible to extract? I'm too very worried about feritlity. I wouldn't mind injecting HCG along with testosterone supplementation, but doesn't HCG gradually desensitize the testicles over time and cause further aromatization? I know HCG mimics LH so it would keep the Leydig cells alive and my natural 300 level testosterone pumping, but still, wouldn't the Serotoli Sperm cells die from lack of FSH? Also HCG is extremely hard to find and is very expensive.

why did you take havoc under 21 y/o? serious question, not trying to shame you.

 

[DT5]

dont ever touch another prohormone in your life. why would you take that, but are afraid to use a little bio-identical testosterone? dude TRT is MUCH less harsh than any prohormone. 20 is young, but on another board i go to razorripped.com, there is some dude who started because of late puberty at 16 or something crazy. its do-able, and ive yet to hear one argument why TRT low dose will cause any problems as long as its well supervised and you are responsible. HCG is a must if you want to stay sterile. im no expert on the long term effects of it though. i am curious myself.

 

[monsterbox]

I ran a cycle of havoc followed by nolvadex and and AI. I was smart and didn't run high dosages or abuse and utilized a liver support with it. I felt no different after PCT then I did before using Havoc.

My reasons for using were because I was NOT making gains in the gym like I wanted. I'm not being greedy and wanting huge gains either. I eat a 4500 calorie diet with 255 grams of protein. I change my routine every 5 weeks and have been consistent for 4 years. I notice it takes me longer to recover between workouts...I usually have to take off a week or two just to heal and not be tired. I get burned out and overtrained very easily. This is why I used havoc under 21...everyone says if your that you have plenty of testosterone. Well recently, when diagnosed with this varicocele i've found out that I have WAY less testosterone for my age. I'm just lucky that my SHBG is 15 which I probably the only reason I have a sex drive.

Havoc is NOT way harsher than TRT. Its simply harsher on your liver because the methylation in the oral form and its skewed anbolic to androgenic ratio gives a different feeling/growth factor/side effects from TRT. Havoc at 20mg/day probably doesn't come close to supressing LH and FSH like 150mg of Test Enanthate. Plus you certainly don't need to worry about aromatization.



Anyways lets get off the stupid point on havoc...I used it over 11 months ago. I feel exactly the same as I did before then. I really dont believe my testosterone is low due to prohormone usage.


I had an ultrasound of my testicles and the doctor said they were of normal size and he doesn't think anything is wrong with me. I'm starting to believe I might be secondary hypogonadism and Ill find out once I get my LH tested. Stil I do have a visible varicocele of the left testicle and my left testicle feels like It changes sizes throughout the day. Its much different than the right.

TRT shrinks your nuts and lowers FSH and LH. So HCG is absolutely necessary from the start to maintain endogeneous function...but does HCG maintain sperm function? Would a transition off say 250iu/2x week HCG and 50mg Test-E 2x week after 20 years allow a speedy sperm/natural test recovery? Im not scared at all to use TRT...in fact I would welcome it...Id love to see what feeling 800-1000ng/dl feels like for the first time and I dont give a crap about having to stick myself, Im just worried about the prolonged shutdown and possibilities of balancing estrogen from HCG injections. Why do you guys not use formadrol, 6oxo, atd or any OTC ai to control estrogen...whats the point of using Arimidex that costs a fortune and is hard to get prescribed..its not like TRT guys are running 250-500mg of Test a week like steroid users.

 

[DT5]

I ran a cycle of havoc followed by nolvadex and and AI. I was smart and didn't run high dosages or abuse and utilized a liver support with it. I felt no different after PCT then I did before using Havoc.

My reasons for using were because I was NOT making gains in the gym like I wanted. I'm not being greedy and wanting huge gains either. I eat a 4500 calorie diet with 255 grams of protein. I change my routine every 5 weeks and have been consistent for 4 years. I notice it takes me longer to recover between workouts...I usually have to take off a week or two just to heal and not be tired. I get burned out and overtrained very easily. This is why I used havoc under 21...everyone says if your that you have plenty of testosterone. Well recently, when diagnosed with this varicocele i've found out that I have WAY less testosterone for my age. I'm just lucky that my SHBG is 15 which I probably the only reason I have a sex drive.

Havoc is NOT way harsher than TRT. Its simply harsher on your liver because the methylation in the oral form and its skewed anbolic to androgenic ratio gives a different feeling/growth factor/side effects from TRT. Havoc at 20mg/day probably doesn't come close to supressing LH and FSH like 150mg of Test Enanthate. Plus you certainly don't need to worry about aromatization.



Anyways lets get off the stupid point on havoc...I used it over 11 months ago. I feel exactly the same as I did before then. I really dont believe my testosterone is low due to prohormone usage.


I had an ultrasound of my testicles and the doctor said they were of normal size and he doesn't think anything is wrong with me. I'm starting to believe I might be secondary hypogonadism and Ill find out once I get my LH tested. Stil I do have a visible varicocele of the left testicle and my left testicle feels like It changes sizes throughout the day. Its much different than the right.

TRT shrinks your nuts and lowers FSH and LH. So HCG is absolutely necessary from the start to maintain endogeneous function...but does HCG maintain sperm function? Would a transition off say 250iu/2x week HCG and 50mg Test-E 2x week after 20 years allow a speedy sperm/natural test recovery? Im not scared at all to use TRT...in fact I would welcome it...Id love to see what feeling 800-1000ng/dl feels like for the first time and I dont give a crap about having to stick myself, Im just worried about the prolonged shutdown and possibilities of balancing estrogen from HCG injections. Why do you guys not use formadrol, 6oxo, atd or any OTC ai to control estrogen...whats the point of using Arimidex that costs a fortune and is hard to get prescribed..its not like TRT guys are running 250-500mg of Test a week like steroid users.

i know you disagree with what i said because this is a big prohormone board, but IMHO you are wrong. Test is test, prohormones are not just "test".

but we can disagree, its the nature of the game my friend!

lets get back onto our HCG topic.
what is the minimum HCG that can be used to keep your boys full for those on life time TRT?

 

[monsterbox]

i know you disagree with what i said because this is a big prohormone board, but IMHO you are wrong. Test is test, prohormones are not just "test".

but we can disagree, its the nature of the game my friend!

lets get back onto our HCG topic.
what is the minimum HCG that can be used to keep your boys full for those on life time TRT?

I'm subscribed for finding this answer too....the docs will probably put me on trt and have no clue what to do with the hcg.

Minimum will probably depend on the amount of testosterone you are using.

IIRC dont many steroid users run 400iu twice/week on 16 week cycles with the standard 250mg test-e


Ive also heard of something called HMG....HCG alone is only LH mimic right? So what about FSH which stimulates sperm? Isnt HMG necessary then too"?



Can you please share more about life at 350 before you started TRT. I'm in the 300's and I feel the same as I've felt all my life. I just get easily worried about things, not anxiety, just worry alot and dont feel refreshed in the mornings. My sex drive is fine however. How much different is it being on TRT....is it really worth it?

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Why go on TRT if you are secondary?

 

[buster0371]

my test levels are low 800s is that good bad or normal? im 21 years old

 

[buster0371]

I'm subscribed for finding this answer too....the docs will probably put me on trt and have no clue what to do with the hcg.

Minimum will probably depend on the amount of testosterone you are using.

IIRC dont many steroid users run 400iu twice/week on 16 week cycles with the standard 250mg test-e


Ive also heard of something called HMG....HCG alone is only LH mimic right? So what about FSH which stimulates sperm? Isnt HMG necessary then too"?



Can you please share more about life at 350 before you started TRT. I'm in the 300's and I feel the same as I've felt all my life. I just get easily worried about things, not anxiety, just worry alot and dont feel refreshed in the mornings. My sex drive is fine however. How much different is it being on TRT....is it really worth it?

my oppinion is its not worth it. why not take some DTH or t-911 if you need the boost. Your pretty buff and i know epi didnt do ALLLL of that in a year, unless you abused it which may have caused you to need TRT now.

 

[DT5]

Why go on TRT if you are secondary?

because test levels are less than optimal. thats why people do this.

 

[The Matrix]

my oppinion is its not worth it. why not take some DTH or t-911 if you need the boost. Your pretty buff and i know epi didnt do ALLLL of that in a year, unless you abused it which may have caused you to need TRT now.

All this "natural" crap is probably got many of young people who for some reason crash after wards and never restart. Even if he is "buff" he still feels like crap and most dr's would look at him and say "you are healthy as a horse go see a shrink" If he is low then it needs to be addressed personally I think majority of young peoples issue is over traning combined with increased demand of stress i n todays fast paced world. Factor in cell phones, lack of sleep, over traning , over eating, school, job, peer pressure, ect your body can not cope with all of this. The end result is that your systems crash mainly cortisol goes up first then thyroid/testosterone drop left feeling depressed down in the dumps. Look for the root cause and if you felt like crap with in 3-4 months of stopping prohormones then you have your answer.


If you are low 800 what supplements OTC where you taking at this time ?

 

[Frank Reynolds]

because test levels are less than optimal. thats why people do this.

lol.. No ****, smart ass.. But if you are secondary, that means you don't NEED TRT. This dude needs a REAL pct(ie. a restart), or possibly HCG monotherapy.

I am in a similar boat, but will avoid TRT until i NEED it.

Additionally, if you feel totally fine, then why chase a number? My test is in the low-mid 400's, naturally and i feel like complete ****. I would give 2 shits if it was 350, and i felt great(good libido, etc).

 

[DT5]

lol.. No ****, smart ass.. But if you are secondary, that means you don't NEED TRT. This dude needs a REAL pct(ie. a restart), or possibly HCG monotherapy.

I am in a similar boat, but will avoid TRT until i NEED it.

sorry if i came off like a cock. didnt mean too.
so if your secondary you dont need TRT? who says this? Ive heard that low T is low T and can be supplimented. Honestly i dont know wether im primary or secondary.

 

[buster0371]

All this "natural" crap is probably got many of young people who for some reason crash after wards and never restart. Even if he is "buff" he still feels like crap and most dr's would look at him and say "you are healthy as a horse go see a shrink" If he is low then it needs to be addressed personally I think majority of young peoples issue is over traning combined with increased demand of stress i n todays fast paced world. Factor in cell phones, lack of sleep, over traning , over eating, school, job, peer pressure, ect your body can not cope with all of this. The end result is that your systems crash mainly cortisol goes up first then thyroid/testosterone drop left feeling depressed down in the dumps. Look for the root cause and if you felt like crap with in 3-4 months of stopping prohormones then you have your answer.


If you are low 800 what supplements OTC where you taking at this time ?

well about 80% of TRT patients are people who abused steroids!!!! NO JOKE. It was in a Mens Health Magazine.

As far as my test levels go, my doctor says he's a little concerned but he'll keep on eye on it. Whatever that means. But I do lots of things to make sure my test stays in check. I dont carry my cellphone in my pocket, I drink distilled water, I dont use fluoride toothpaste, i take zma at night, i eat a lot of salad with dinner. I have taken DTH but i discontinued it 3 weeks before getting my levels checked. My question is, ARE MY LEVELS LOW FOR A 21 YEAR OLD?

 

[buster0371]

p.s. i have no problem putting on muscle, look at my log in my signiture, page 1 and 7 have pics. I gained about 40 lbs in 4 months. Hard training and PERFECT DIET AND SUPPLEMENTING THOUGH!

 

[DT5]

p.s. i have no problem putting on muscle, look at my log in my signiture, page 1 and 7 have pics. I gained about 40 lbs in 4 months. Hard training and PERFECT DIET AND SUPPLEMENTING THOUGH!

dude i dont like your attitude to be honest. "Look at my pics, i have no problem with muscle" lol! your ego is more massive than your "build"

another thing, you said your test total is 800??? dude if you did a little research by using google, you would see your in the upper range.

lastly, mens health magazine is not "news". did they quote a source? i take their lil polls and facts as seriously as i take the **** my fiance reads in cosmo. "45 percent of women orgasm when they eat tacos" (poll taken from 10 dumb bitches who work in the editing branch of cosmo)

 

[monsterbox]

abusing steroids is using steroids like test-e+deca for 12 weeks on end back to back...cruising with no pct, no HCG and shutting yourself way way down.

My nuts never shrank. Maybe my LH dropped out from the use of havoc but I dont consider that abuse.

80% of TRT patients...are you f*cking kidding me? I know at least 6 50 year old + guys on TRT because of age. Hence why 90% of the prescribers are Anti-Aging clinics and we are in the Anti-Aging forum.


DTHC just free's up your total testosterone. Its not directly stimulating the pituitary like a drug such as clomid. Clomid has been proven to double serum testosterone at 25mg over 4-6weeks.


P.S. for people that know anything in here:

One of my first blood test showed LH: 4.2 and Total Test 366 -----does that LH seem indicative of Secondary or Suppression? I feel like if the LH was bumped up to 7 by HCG or Clomid id be pumping out 1000ng/dl

 

[The Matrix]

well about 80% of TRT patients are people who abused steroids!!!! NO JOKE. It was in a Mens Health Magazine.

As far as my test levels go, my doctor says he's a little concerned but he'll keep on eye on it. Whatever that means. But I do lots of things to make sure my test stays in check. I dont carry my cellphone in my pocket, I drink distilled water, I dont use fluoride toothpaste, i take zma at night, i eat a lot of salad with dinner. I have taken DTH but i discontinued it 3 weeks before getting my levels checked. My question is, ARE MY LEVELS LOW FOR A 21 YEAR OLD?

I have many people that eat healthy, but unbalanced as the cause of their issue due to their own lifestyle choices.

Drinking distilled water is the most stupid thing I have heard in years. You are not getting the proper minerals in your water. IF you mean purified water that fine. I never let my athletes use distilled water even for contest prep. To many people have issue with it and end up cramping even on a "good eating" One thing you have to learn my freind is that experience will over ride what any magazine will every say. An open mind is always a good thing to possess. For every time some one told me something I did think they knew what they were talking about. If I had only listened.

 

[buster0371]

I have many people that eat healthy, but unbalanced as the cause of their issue due to their own lifestyle choices.

Drinking distilled water is the most stupid thing I have heard in years. You are not getting the proper minerals in your water. IF you mean purified water that fine. I never let my athletes use distilled water even for contest prep. To many people have issue with it and end up cramping even on a "good eating" One thing you have to learn my freind is that experience will over ride what any magazine will every say. An open mind is always a good thing to possess. For every time some one told me something I did think they knew what they were talking about. If I had only listened.

you are wise. i will try to keep an open mind. good to hear that my test levels arnt low but now im curious to see why my doctor was concerned. maybe the dth had lowered my LH or something. I drink distilled because im scared to ingest fluoride. Fluoride has been showed in many scientific studies done in Europe to lower test levels. The US fluorides our water supply but Europe does not.

 

[buster0371]

dude i dont like your attitude to be honest. "Look at my pics, i have no problem with muscle" lol! your ego is more massive than your "build"

another thing, you said your test total is 800??? dude if you did a little research by using google, you would see your in the upper range.

lastly, mens health magazine is not "news". did they quote a source? i take their lil polls and facts as seriously as i take the **** my fiance reads in cosmo. "45 percent of women orgasm when they eat tacos" (poll taken from 10 dumb bitches who work in the editing branch of cosmo)

sorry if i sounded cocky but i dont think i have a problem building muscle. Isn't one of the symptoms of low test levels difficulty building muscle? I'm only trying to describe myself to you because I am seeking help. But thank you very much for your answer. I do not have low test levels, and am in fact in the upper range. Hey thanks a lot guys, i really apreciete your help!

 

[DT5]

flouride in water and toothpaste is the least of your problems...

 

[The Matrix]

Do not get catch in the "live in a plastic bubble syndrome" People tend to stress them self out over the stupidist things. People that have all theses "fears" are only feeding in the plethora of information that is mis leading or just a scare tactic by people trying to have you buy some crazy gadget to help off set it. Alot of the information I deal in is strict scientific evidence not some magazine or cosmo, but from studies in gov't.com data bases which I have spend over 20,000 hours over the past 5 years mastering the human body and sifting through all the non sense published out there. For God sakes just get a filter on your water and it will solve the issue. Drinking distilled water is horrible for a growing young boy. Also your body needs some fluroide. Unless you have iodine defieincy that is back by cliincal testing I would just drink filtered water and you are fine.

 

[buster0371]

Do not get catch in the "live in a plastic bubble syndrome" People tend to stress them self out over the stupidist things. People that have all theses "fears" are only feeding in the plethora of information that is mis leading or just a scare tactic by people trying to have you buy some crazy gadget to help off set it. Alot of the information I deal in is strict scientific evidence not some magazine or cosmo, but from studies in gov't.com data bases which I have spend over 20,000 hours over the past 5 years mastering the human body and sifting through all the non sense published out there. For God sakes just get a filter on your water and it will solve the issue. Drinking distilled water is horrible for a growing young boy. Also your body needs some fluroide. Unless you have iodine defieincy that is back by cliincal testing I would just drink filtered water and you are fine.

ok thanks buddy i think ill try that. as long as my test levels dont suffer it should be fine!

 

[monsterbox]

lastest testosterone

Total T - 313 (scale to 857)
Free T - 9.7 (scale to 27)
SHBG - 19
LH - 1.5
FSH - 2.7

Hmmmm....wtf does this mean. Its been 5 months since Ive used any kind of PH. I feel the same emotionally/physically/sexually as I did 3 years ago.

On toremifene my LH was 4.2 and my Total was 466. That was months ago...why is my LH falling down to 1.5. Past 3 months my total T is in the 300's. Something is wrong with my pituitary function.

Based on my calculations, if at 1.5 my total T is 313 and at 4.2 total = 466. Then if my LH was constantly around 4-5 which is normal, my total t would be around 500, meaning that the rest is Primary, and related to my varicocele.

So, First I need to attack the pituitary problem with endocrinologists and then fix the varicocele to allow Testosterone response to raise with LH.

 

[M261]

Dude,
It hasn't even been 3 months since you finished your PPlex and superdrol (MDrol) cycle that you say messed you up (you stopped Feb 3rd); not to mention the fact that it was your 3rd cycle in less then a year. You screwed your body up with all the stuff you were taking and now it needs time to correct itself. Stop taking all supplements (besides vit/min/EFAs) for a couple months and then retest.