Too Much hCG

[longrob]

I want to increase my dose of hCG. Will I be able to tell when E2 starts getting too high, so I can reduce the dose? What would the first signs be?

 

[Steveoph]

The nipples will get sensitive, and you will get emotional. What's your dose of hCG like?

 

[longrob]

I am taking 400iu two times a week. I have been on T Cyp for months at 120mg per week. Want the extra added benefits of hCG, ie, increase ball size, greater sense of well being, etc.

 

[steve999]

You'll need bloodwork for quantitative estrogen levels.

Note that Dr. Crisler recommends 250iu of HCG for each of the two days prior to your testosterone cypionate shot. You might want to use that as your basline and adjust from there.

 

[Steveoph]

Bloodwork is quantitative naturally, he just wanted some qualitative observations to know if he's gone too high. Also watch your mood; if you suddenly start watching romances, red alert!

 

[LeanGuy]

for me... nipple sensitivity & weak morning wood. do you take an AI (arimidex)?

 

[longrob]

Leanguy,
I am not taking an AI. My E2 was 20 at last bloodtest (before hCG). I started hCG at 200iu twice a week, then 250iu, now 400iu twice a week. Got one recommendation to do 1000iu twice a week for 2 wks, then drop to 500. Presently, I just dont feel any difference, nor have my testicles regained any of the lost size.
-Rob

 

[LeanGuy]

I thought I could get by without an AI, since my E2 was only 10 before starting HCG... but it went up to 40... using 350iu E3D (monotherapy). Now I take .5mg adex with each shot and nipple pain has gone. I guess you need some labs to really see what its doing, you can't always tell by the way you feel.

 

[longrob]

Thanks for the info leanguy. I won't see my urologist for another 4 months so I was asking about usual symptoms of high E2. Guess I'll watch for nipple sens and exaggerated emotions.

 

[longrob]

So leanguy,
How are you feeling? Have you fine tuned your hCG monotherapy and it is now working for you?
My only thought on you getting by w/out an AI was perhaps take your hCG less often. Seem to remember colkurtz saying something like that.

 

[The Matrix]

I am taking 400iu two times a week. I have been on T Cyp for months at 120mg per week. Want the extra added benefits of hCG, ie, increase ball size, greater sense of well being, etc.

REduce dosage to 250 ius a week will help off set this
Get regular blood work montiored every 6 weeks for e2

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Leanguy,
I am not taking an AI. My E2 was 20 at last bloodtest (before hCG). I started hCG at 200iu twice a week, then 250iu, now 400iu twice a week. Got one recommendation to do 1000iu twice a week for 2 wks, then drop to 500. Presently, I just dont feel any difference, nor have my testicles regained any of the lost size.
-Rob

I was the one who gave that advice. The problem is that exogenous testosterone has you completely shut down. I know what that's like. After a year of testosterone therapy, I needed 10,000 per week to get any results at all - at least for the first few months. My recommendation was to start high and then taper off until you get the best results with the smallest amount.

My experience may not be useful to you. I know that my condition is secondary. I don't know yours. I assume that if you read these boards and still inject testosterone you are primary.

 

[longrob]

I was the one who gave that advice. The problem is that exogenous testosterone has you completely shut down. I know what that's like. After a year of testosterone therapy, I needed 10,000 per week to get any results at all - at least for the first few months. My recommendation was to start high and then taper off until you get the best results with the smallest amount.

My experience may not be useful to you. I know that my condition is secondary. I don't know yours. I assume that if you read these boards and still inject testosterone you are primary.

Thanks for the advice colkurtz. I hope I did not offend you- clearly not my intent. I can use all the help I can get, so of course your experience is useful. Hope we cool.

 

[longrob]

First off, I'm sorry to say, I never found out if I am primary or secondary because I allowed my urologist to start me on Testim with only labs for TT and FreeT. I was ignorant at the time. I think he assumed that at my age, 55, that I was probably primary.
So yes, I do know that I am shut down after 6 mos Testim and 3 mos T cyp. I want to add some hCG to take advantage of the benefits, feel a better sense of well being, and restore some lost testicle size.
It's confusing tho, that Dr Crisler rec 250iu the two days before weekly T shot, when I don’t see that dose restoring testicle size or making me feel better after 2 months and I hear others saying basically the same thing.
I have not had any lab work done to confirm if hCG is increasing T or E2, but was just trying to conservatively go by "feel". If my nips got sensitive and my testicles swelled up, I would know the dose was too high, but working.
I plan to soon increase the hCG dose to where I am able to notice it. Am I off base here?
Rob

 

[colkurtz_spf]

First off, I'm sorry to say, I never found out if I am primary or secondary because I allowed my urologist to start me on Testim with only labs for TT and FreeT. I was ignorant at the time. I think he assumed that at my age, 55, that I was probably primary.
So yes, I do know that I am shut down after 6 mos Testim and 3 mos T cyp. I want to add some hCG to take advantage of the benefits, feel a better sense of well being, and restore some lost testicle size.
It's confusing tho, that Dr Crisler rec 250iu the two days before weekly T shot, when I don’t see that dose restoring testicle size or making me feel better after 2 months and I hear others saying basically the same thing.
I have not had any lab work done to confirm if hCG is increasing T or E2, but was just trying to conservatively go by "feel". If my nips got sensitive and my testicles swelled up, I would know the dose was too high, but working.
I plan to soon increase the hCG dose to where I am able to notice it. Am I off base here?
Rob

No offense taken. I just wanted to clarify. Had you been on Dr. Chrisler's protocol from the beginning this probably would never have happened. But now you're shut down and that probably needs to be dealt with differently. I was in your shoes and decided to end testosterone therapy and identify the cause of my deficiency. It was the best decision I made. Like me, you may also need high doses of HCG to start. It's possible that in three or four months you'll be able to achieve acceptable T levels on HCG alone. If not, you can go on Dr. John's protocol and avoid the shut down you're experiencing now. Either way I don't think you can resolve this without taking a break from testosterone. That's my opinion. I'm no doctor so I may be wrong. However, I was advised the same by a dcotor who is expert in this field.

 

[longrob]

No offense taken. I just wanted to clarify. Had you been on Dr. Chrisler's protocol from the beginning this probably would never have happened. But now you're shut down and that probably needs to be dealt with differently. I was in your shoes and decided to end testosterone therapy and identify the cause of my deficiency. It was the best decision I made. Like me, you may also need high doses of HCG to start. It's possible that in three or four months you'll be able to achieve acceptable T levels on HCG alone. If not, you can go on Dr. John's protocol and avoid the shut down you're experiencing now. Either way I don't think you can resolve this without taking a break from testosterone. That's my opinion. I'm no doctor so I may be wrong. However, I was advised the same by a dcotor who is expert in this field.

Thanks, makes sense.

 

[Gutterpump]

Like colkurtz_spf said, it takes a while to get started up again even while taking HCG.
It could take a month or two.

Also, signs of high e2 can be similar to signs of low e2, but I know you're also only looking out for the high signs. Once you start an AI, you will have to watch out for both..

 

[longrob]

Oh, I see. Dr John must get the patient on hCG soon after starting T gel/shots, so to not wait til completely shut down.

 

[rick055]

Oh, I see. Dr John must get the patient on hCG soon after starting T gel/shots, so to not wait til completely shut down.

Though the HPT shuts down pretty quickly, I thought it took a while for the testicles to atrophy.

 

[Gutterpump]

He's been on test for 9 months though he said, before starting hcg. Some people are also more prone to shutdown than others. I know my nuts started to hurt the first week I ever shot test, and this was while on low dose hcg.

 

[DT5]

for long term test cyp TRT, can you just do a standard 250iu twice a week to keep the boys functional? I was never shut down before...im just trying to minimize what i need to keep my balls from dieing.