Undermethylation and OverMethylation?

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  1. Undermethylation and zinc depletion.

    This is something i recieved from a doctor i saw before. He diagnosed undermethylation in my sister when she saw him.
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  2. Well i had a adverse reaction to SAMe on the second day i also took 200mg but in the evening i started feeling very mentally unwell. I don't know what happened but i totally felt spaced out and its extremely hard to explain, felt i was losing my breath too.

    Ill stop the SAMe and first check my urine amino acid levels and blood histamine so i know 100% if im over or undermethylated.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    Undermethylation and zinc depletion.

    This is something i recieved from a doctor i saw before. He diagnosed undermethylation in my sister when she saw him.
    it did not take a rocket scientist to known you where undermethylated..
    It is also a genetic issue as well stemming from mutatation in the genes that I have already mentioned. Sam-e is a direct route..folonic acid, methyl b-12, are the indirect route
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
  4. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    400 mgs can nto be broken due to enteric coating.
    I wasn't talking about breaking them. on 400mg tabs it reads

    S-Adenosyl-Methionine tosylate disulfate - 400mg
    (yielding 200mg S-Adenosyl-Methionine)

    so I was wondering whether he was talking about 400mg tabs, or 400mg active
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I wasn't talking about breaking them. on 400mg tabs it reads

    S-Adenosyl-Methionine tosylate disulfate - 400mg
    (yielding 200mg S-Adenosyl-Methionine)

    so I was wondering whether he was talking about 400mg tabs, or 400mg active
    200 mgs active
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    Well i had a adverse reaction to SAMe on the second day i also took 200mg but in the evening i started feeling very mentally unwell. I don't know what happened but i totally felt spaced out and its extremely hard to explain, felt i was losing my breath too.

    Ill stop the SAMe and first check my urine amino acid levels and blood histamine so i know 100% if im over or undermethylated.
    I had the same side effects on Sam-e. Got fine after one day.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by aisstea View Post
    I had the same side effects on Sam-e. Got fine after one day.
    This is weird, my wife had the same problem with sam-e, and her histamines are mildly elevated. She's doing fine with methionine + tmg

  8. This is the place im going to for the DNA testing.

    Have a look it has some good diagrams and talking about hypomethylation. They also provide you with appropriate nutrition and supplement therapy once you know where your genetic mutations are.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    This is weird, my wife had the same problem with sam-e, and her histamines are mildly elevated. She's doing fine with methionine + tmg
    Look up at my other reply
    People may do better on TMG, folonic acid, methyl b-12 and not sam-e

    She might do good on glutathione patches too
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    This is the place im going to for the DNA testing.

    Have a look it has some good diagrams and talking about hypomethylation. They also provide you with appropriate nutrition and supplement therapy once you know where your genetic mutations are.
    I am glad that you are getting down to hopefully the root of the problem..now knowing that it may be a genetic link which no medicine can help cure. Also undermethylation can lead in to adrenal fatigue because it can deplete serotonin which starts the cascade of events of high glutamate, high cortisol, high rt3, low dhea, mineral imbalnace..Gear may have been straw that broke the camels back which may have triggered it. I am glad you are with good dr's.. i have an idea you will have an underactive MS over active CBS, under active 5 mthfrr..Depending on where you got the gear it may have been contaminated with some kind of viral infection, especially if you were using tren...That stuff is made in back yard labs..So I hope that you learned a lesson. What caused all this mess would be a tainted or contaminated batch of steroids, over traning, undereating, that stressed your system over taxing your detoxifcation system triggering a genetic mutation.

    PS I will just added to your bill HAHAHA
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  11. I'm going to give SAMe another try.

    Starting with 200mg of S-Adenosyl Methionine (from 400mg of SAMe tosylate dusulfate) and then ramping up to 400mg of S-Adenosyl Methionine (from 800mg of SAMe tosylate dusulfate).

    Trying this stuff here: https://www.prohealth.com/shop/produ...ab/Label#title

    It's in the blister packs. Supposed to be high quality. Also going to take NAC + extra Vitamin C with this along with some of their B-12 Extreme sublinguals (full spectrum b-12, including methylcobalamin) and 10mg of NADH as well. Should be a nice new protocol in addition to what I am already taking. NADH sounds promising. ALCAR and NA-RALA is also going to be part of this, and a small amount of l-histadine which I've got in bulk.
  12. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    nice price there too
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  13. Yeah definitely.

    I didn't realize that NAC can cause zinc deficiency though, I've ordered 2 bottles each of MST's ZMK + MVP, so my minerals should be more than covered. I still can't stress enough how great MST's ZMK is. Best mineral product I've seen ever. Full spectrum krebs chelated mineral matrix, best I've seen for athletes. Goes far above and beyond simple ZMA. I seriously don't know what I would do without my MVP/ZMK..nothing comes close to it for me where it comes to supplementation.

  14. Btw, does anyone know if it's an issue taking so many acetylated products?

    I once read a concern about it before but can't remember the source.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    I am glad that you are getting down to hopefully the root of the problem..now knowing that it may be a genetic link which no medicine can help cure. Also undermethylation can lead in to adrenal fatigue because it can deplete serotonin which starts the cascade of events of high glutamate, high cortisol, high rt3, low dhea, mineral imbalnace..Gear may have been straw that broke the camels back which may have triggered it. I am glad you are with good dr's.. i have an idea you will have an underactive MS over active CBS, under active 5 mthfrr..Depending on where you got the gear it may have been contaminated with some kind of viral infection, especially if you were using tren...That stuff is made in back yard labs..So I hope that you learned a lesson. What caused all this mess would be a tainted or contaminated batch of steroids, over traning, undereating, that stressed your system over taxing your detoxifcation system triggering a genetic mutation.

    PS I will just added to your bill HAHAHA

    Yeah i used tren as well as test... i hope to god things will improve for me. Im not messing with gear ever again thats for sure. Coupled with arimidex use which further suppressed my immune system while on possibly contaminated roids ugh! bad decisions...

    lol added to my bill the testing is already going to cost me a fortune.

  16. subbed so i can get an email saying im subscribed so i can come back to this at a later date and soak up information and learn as much as i can...

  17. Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    Yeah i used tren as well as test... i hope to god things will improve for me. Im not messing with gear ever again thats for sure. Coupled with arimidex use which further suppressed my immune system while on possibly contaminated roids ugh! bad decisions...

    lol added to my bill the testing is already going to cost me a fortune.
    I think the problem lies in contamination of TREN would be the lost logical explaination for everything. I have ran across this with alot of my clients who where body builders and experiencing un explained fatigue and chronic fatigue symptoms which dr's had no clue where they came from. Infections also can alter the methylation cycle which could explain alot of your other symptoms as well. Mercury and infections go hand and hand.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  18. Found something interesting + related today:

    The ketogenic diet increases mitochondrial glutathione levels
    The ketogenic diet (KD) is a high-fat, low carbohydrate diet...We sought to determine whether the KD improves mitochondrial redox status....GSH (glutathione) is a major mitochondrial antioxidant that protects mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) against oxidative damage...the results demonstrate that the KD up-regulates GSH biosynthesis, enhances mitochondrial antioxidant status, and protects mtDNA from oxidant-induced damage.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/18466343
  19. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Hmm well damn. thats interesting
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Found something interesting + related today:
    Provided the proper substrates are there which need to be taken in a higher dosage other wise you could end up with fatty liver and diabetes on these types of diet. Ketodiets are for diabetes or seizures patients.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

  21. I feel great / better whenever I go on a keto diet. I also pay more attention to eating properly when I diet like this (nutritious). I make everything count. I don't see how it can cause diabetes. It helps to prevent and to cure type-II diabetes / insulin resistance.

    I also make sure to have a lot of evoo,coconut oil and MCT's. They make up the greater portion of fat when I diet like this.

    I could see someone getting a fatty liver if they are eating far too much fat. But if your consuming enough where your body feeds on it's own fat stores often enough, then there shouldn't be much internal (visceral) body fat present. CKD is where it's at =D and switching between CS + CR diets.

  22. Methylation question for anyone here....

    I have been taking a lot of Betain HCL and didn't quite clue in until recently that this is actually TMG, which is a methyl donor. I take about 5-7 grams per day spread out with my meals to aid digestion.

    I am also taking 400mg (active) SAMe and feel fine at this dose, never felt bad from SAMe. Is it safe to increase my active dose of SAMe even though I am taking this much TMG? I am also taking methylcobalamin + NAC daily. If I increase my SAMe, is this too much of a good thing?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Methylation question for anyone here....

    I have been taking a lot of Betain HCL and didn't quite clue in until recently that this is actually TMG, which is a methyl donor. I take about 5-7 grams per day spread out with my meals to aid digestion.

    I am also taking 400mg (active) SAMe and feel fine at this dose, never felt bad from SAMe. Is it safe to increase my active dose of SAMe even though I am taking this much TMG? I am also taking methylcobalamin + NAC daily. If I increase my SAMe, is this too much of a good thing?


    I think 400mg of SAMe per day is fine probably no need to increase it as your already taking other supplements which improve methylation.


    I feel a lot better when i take Betaine HCL digestion improves 100% as well as other things, gota remember to pick some up.

    Also i would pick up some Sytemic Enzymes a product called Vitalzym is very good. These enzymes are involved in thousand of reactions in the body. Contains protease, lipase, amylase, cellulase and a few others.

    Vitamins function as co-enzymes, these work directly.

  24. Ya I am using other enzymes besides betain HCL. I am double dosing, taking four of these with every meal

    http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=VS-1195

    I want to try increasing SAMe though because I have been spending a lot of money on stablon as an aid for seratonin/dopamine. SAMe is so much cheaper in comparison, and hopefully it can make my caber work better as well by allowing me to produce more dopamine.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Ya I am using other enzymes besides betain HCL. I am double dosing, taking four of these with every meal

    http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=VS-1195

    I want to try increasing SAMe though because I have been spending a lot of money on stablon as an aid for seratonin/dopamine. SAMe is so much cheaper in comparison, and hopefully it can make my caber work better as well by allowing me to produce more dopamine.
    What are you taking/how many supplements are you on?

    I wouldn't go crazy with supplements. Im the type of person who would take 300 supplements per day but ive stopped that now i realise that could lead to a lot more harm then good.

    Im still in the process of testing to figure out what i need to be on exactly.


    What do you think about this product called NT Factor?... worth getting?

    https://www.prohealth.com/shop/produ...ab/Label#title

  26. What im confused about when i read about undermethylation and high histamine on some sites it says treatment is centered around antifolates such as calcium which bind histamine and release it into the blood stream as well as methionine which acts as a methyl donor.

    Then i have read elsewhere folic acid is used for undermethylation So should we be using folate or not for undermethylation?

    I have already know i have the MTHFR gene mutation. Soon i will know everything with genome testing.

    Also urine kryptopyrroles is the diagnosis in pyroluria. According to proponents, one of the pyrroles (kryptopyrrole or mauve factor) is a by-product of improper hemoglobin synthesis.[5][6] However, other pyrroles have been implicated, and what literature exists on this topic is unclear.[7] These pyrroles are then said to bind to vitamin B6, and zinc and are eliminated through urine, potentially causing deficiencies of these compounds. If deficiency is maintained then this leads to ADHD, schizophrenia etc...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroluria

    Does genova do the urine kryptopyroles test?

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Methylation question for anyone here....

    I have been taking a lot of Betain HCL and didn't quite clue in until recently that this is actually TMG, which is a methyl donor. I take about 5-7 grams per day spread out with my meals to aid digestion.

    I am also taking 400mg (active) SAMe and feel fine at this dose, never felt bad from SAMe. Is it safe to increase my active dose of SAMe even though I am taking this much TMG? I am also taking methylcobalamin + NAC daily. If I increase my SAMe, is this too much of a good thing?
    there are actually TWO betaines out there - Betaine HCl (digestive aid) and Betaine (which is TMG).
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  28. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    there are actually TWO betaines out there - Betaine HCl (digestive aid) and Betaine (which is TMG).
    i had wondered that during this conversation, as i have powdered TMG and it tastes NOTHING like the betaine hcl tabs
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  29. Quote Originally Posted by MetalMX View Post
    What are you taking/how many supplements are you on?

    I wouldn't go crazy with supplements. Im the type of person who would take 300 supplements per day but ive stopped that now i realise that could lead to a lot more harm then good.

    Im still in the process of testing to figure out what i need to be on exactly.


    What do you think about this product called NT Factor?... worth getting?

    https://www.prohealth.com/shop/produ...ab/Label#title
    I don't know anything about NT factor.

    I'm not on many supplements, just the basics and a few drugs.

    Here is my regime:

    MST's MVP/ZMK combo (the best enhanced multi-vitamin and mineral complex out there, great products)
    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/m...p-120-cap.html
    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/m...-120-tabs.html
    Multi-Enzyme complex
    Betain HCL
    NAC
    Liv.52
    Now's Thyroid Energy (natural/nutritional thyroid support)
    Pro Health Extreme B-12

    Occassionally taking Pro Health NADH (10mg or 20mg), depending on how I feel. Taking this with the sublingual B-12 is good for natural energy when needed.

    HCG - 450iu eod
    Arimidex - .5mg eod
    Caber - 500mcg 2-3x per week
    Isocort - 6 tabs per day

    SAMe - 400mg active pd (going to increase this to 800mg pd)

    Adaptogens:
    Ashwaganda
    Rhodiola
    Schizandra


    Things I have stopped: deprenyl and stablon. Deprenyl wasn't good for me on an ongoing basis. Didn't work as planned. Stablon is amazing but it's underdosed at the recommended daily intake. Have to increase the dose and it works amazingly well, but it's cost prohibitive.

  30. I should also mention that I occassionally take ALCAR (taken with a special type of vit C) and NA-R-ALA. ALCAR is great stuff.
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