[jon671]

Curious if I continue to improve my lifestyle would a year or two be okay? I don't have the means at the moment.

[Frank Reynolds]

Well.. if you don't have the means, then it will have to be "ok", no?

If that is the case, all you can do, is control what is in your ability to control.

[thenxtgrt1]

Curious if I continue to improve my lifestyle would a year or two be okay? I don't have the means at the moment.

May not be a bad thing. Could work for you. Weren't you considering clomid as sort of restart protocol? That shouldn't be too costly.

[jon671]

Well.. if you don't have the means, then it will have to be "ok", no?

If that is the case, all you can do, is control what is in your ability to control.

Everything is going into my business and job right now. Should pay off before the end of the year.
Also got some good news recently, but I'll tell you guys about it later.

[jon671]

May not be a bad thing. Could work for you. Weren't you considering clomid as sort of restart protocol? That shouldn't be too costly.

Yeah I am still considering using, but with I'm going "natural" for now with me and my wifes attempts at become pregnant. Also I am really just learning about hormones and stuff. I am a little scared to treat myself. I look forward to treatment it is so close. What ever that treatment is. I really look forward to seeing a qualified specialist within a year or two. I am slowly getting my life on track health, wealth and all that stuff. It is a New Year and I am feeling it. It's gonna be a good year. For everyone I hope.

[The Matrix]

Yeah I am still considering using, but with I'm going "natural" for now with me and my wifes attempts at become pregnant. Also I am really just learning about hormones and stuff. I am a little scared to treat myself. I look forward to treatment it is so close. What ever that treatment is. I really look forward to seeing a qualified specialist within a year or two. I am slowly getting my life on track health, wealth and all that stuff. It is a New Year and I am feeling it. It's gonna be a good year. For everyone I hope.

One can concieve very easily on TRT look at ageless and many others that never had a problem.. What dr's scare people about TRT causing infertility is a bunch of crap. If you are feeling like crap from being of TRT for a long time it could then affect your health as well as your wealth.

[darkblue1]

Curious if I continue to improve my lifestyle would a year or two be okay? I don't have the means at the moment.

I dont think you are on TRT now. Dont go on TRT. Even if you are low on testosterone, it doesnt any harm for you to become dad.My wife became pregnant when my testosteorne was 220ng. These low testosterone ..levels..alla are bull... guys are falling prey to this trap. It may be some other symptoms not low testosterone symptoms (mainly).This is a symptom of some other problem

[jon671]

I dont think you are on TRT now. Dont go on TRT. Even if you are low on testosterone, it doesnt any harm for you to become dad.My wife became pregnant when my testosteorne was 220ng. These low testosterone ..levels..alla are bull... guys are falling prey to this trap. It may be some other symptoms not low testosterone symptoms (mainly).This is a symptom of some other problem

Well I hope it is not a major problem. All the doctors keep telling me nothing is wrong with me.

[DT5]

alot of people say, "your low test is caused by something else" but no one talks about what could be the reasons, and i bet 95% of docs u would go see about it, wouldnt have a clue what to test for. get one TRT when you have money and feel better.

[K1212]

I dont think you are on TRT now. Dont go on TRT. Even if you are low on testosterone, it doesnt any harm for you to become dad.My wife became pregnant when my testosteorne was 220ng. These low testosterone ..levels..alla are bull... guys are falling prey to this trap. It may be some other symptoms not low testosterone symptoms (mainly).This is a symptom of some other problem

so are you saying TRT is a bunch of crap? I know I feel like hell but I am debating wether I should go on TRT or not, I hate taking medication and dont know if I like the side effects and the long term side effects are probably unknown for some of these things, but I know I feel like death as I imagine my T is below 100 and not sure if it is possible to adjust to this

[DT5]

would u rather live 60 more years and feel like **** the whole time? or would you live 50 years from now, and feel great for those years?. thats just a way to look at it because you talked about the "unknown effects". its also KNOWN that low test can lead to alot of bad things like Alzheimers.



id rather live the 50 years feelin great, then 60 feelin ****ty. but thats just me.

[K1212]

would u rather live 60 more years and feel like **** the whole time? or would you live 50 years from now, and feel great for those years?. thats just a way to look at it because you talked about the "unknown effects". its also KNOWN that low test can lead to alot of bad things like Alzheimers.



id rather live the 50 years feelin great, then 60 feelin ****ty. but thats just me.

well do you know you can live for 50 years on some of these therapys? Alot of them are new and who knows what they can do down the line, I wouldnt be surprised if some of the gels can cause skin cancer 10 years down the line

Like I said now I am wondering if there is some way to be happy without taking any hormones, I have spoken to other people who say they are ok and happy without it but at this point I dont see how it is possible

[crazycrew]

Curious if I continue to improve my lifestyle would a year or two be okay? I don't have the means at the moment.

I found this on anouther forum and it looks promising. It could mean getting help sooner for you and others in the same financial boat. (Me too)

Google Hazle drugs andro

then click on Andropause Consultants

[darkblue1]

so are you saying TRT is a bunch of crap? I know I feel like hell but I am debating wether I should go on TRT or not, I hate taking medication and dont know if I like the side effects and the long term side effects are probably unknown for some of these things, but I know I feel like death as I imagine my T is below 100 and not sure if it is possible to adjust to this

K212, Dont go TRT. Dont even try to experiment it.

Here is my personal experience.

My testosterone level was 223 which is below normal range in March of 2008. I experienced low libido, very low energy levels, loss of weight, loss of muscle, head ache, shrinkage of testicles , low concentration, abnormal sleep disturbances. I used to get erections only during sleep for only few minutes, but it was too big ,strong erection. But it used to ga away within minutes, Something was happening in my body at that time. I could not expalin what was that. I used to get up 6 to 7 times in 7 hours.But still no energy when i wake up. I was losing my muscle during sleep. So i was scared to sleep. During time I tried to get erection by stimualting, When i get it, It was huge , stronger one (abnormal ).But I could not release. I had pain in lower abdomen. I had ultra sound in that area , nothing was found, Then my PCP tested for testosterone, Found that i have low testosterone. So I thought these symptoms are because of low testosterone.Also he refered me to urlogist for possible varicocele and low tetsosterone. But i could not get appointment for 2 months. So i went to emergency and they did scrotal ultrasound, found bi lateral varicoceles. Next week I went to the urologist , he said these are not the sysmptoms of low testosterone. The he refered to another urologist who deals with infertility . That urologist tested me for LH and FSH. My LH was 0.2 which is way below than normal range. He was surprised with my testosterone levels too. He said I am normal and my body is like that. He also said varicoceles has nothing to do with it. He also told me that my testicle dont get my size back and testosterone does not come back after surgery. I told him that my testicle will shrink more if I wont be having surgery. He said,you dont lose the size. I showed him many articles that shows problems that come with varicoceles.He said one of the doctors who wrote that article was his friend and he does it for money. He refered me to endocronologist. Endocronologist sent me to pituitary MRI . It came normal. He dont know why I have low testosterone. I asked him for clomid or HCG, he said he is not experienced in prescribing those. He refered me to fertility clinic to test for semen analysis, Urologists also refered me to semen analysis. When I went for that test, I got erection (huge,abnormal) but I could not release . When I tried to masturbate, I felet like somebody were draining my energy out form my muscles (legs,thighs ,hip and arms). We came back. My wife became disappointed . Endo put me on androgel . I used to for 3 days and I felt like crap, I felt more tired and I was losing more muscle than before.But I got nocturnal erections for more duration (but it was hell when I had those erections) felt like something was happening to my body.I told this to urologist and endo also. But urologist told my endo that I am pshycologically not good.My disappointed with these doctors. She wanted to have baby. pressurised me to have sex, I did it even though I was not interested. I stopped Androgel and did not go for follow up. And I did not visit any doctor for 2 weeks. Then My wife missed her period and knew that she became pregnant.
I went to neurologist also to know wwhwy I was losing muscle and weekness in legs and hands. He sent me for head,spine (lower,upper and middle ) MRI,Everything came back normal.
Then I went to endocronologist and told him that anrodgel is not working for me ,also told that My wife is pregnant.He put me on cypionate injections 200 every two weeks. I used it for 2 months. I was gaining weight at belly but not at other parts and it did not give me any benefits in any department. I felet same as before except that I get nocturnal erections for longer time. But that was the main culprit( I knew this later by myself). I sent him mail askign why I am not gaining any weight and still feel same as before. He did not ahve any answer. I thought I may gain weight using it for two months ( as most of the who are on TRT on this forum and other forums told so), but I did not.So I stopped it. Then I stopped visiting any doctors. For one month I analysed all the symptoms and the reasons for them. During sleep I was getting huge ,abnormal erections (it was like iron rod), same time I was losing weight and could not sleep. That means I had more energy in my thing when i get erections. It was taking all energy from other parts of body. I made a quick decision to do something about this, otherwise I will slowly die soon.That decision brought my life back.
Now my erections are normal (still hard but not abnormal life before). Energy is balanced on other parts. Slowly gaining my weight and muscles.I do not feel any symptoms of low testosterone.
This is one case where it proves that by going on TRT, we can not resolve all issues.
Another thing we need to note that , There was no TRT few years back. how did those people survive who had problem ( like we guys here assume) with testosterone levels.They still survived and lived for long years.I am not talking about who are primary.I am talking about those who are secondary. When allmost all urlogists say that you are normal when LH levels are still very low, that means there is something that is causing this, but even they do not know what is causing this?That does not mean that we need to go on TRT. In some cases medicines can not help. When your body is not balanced, it causes all sort of symptoms. We need to find where it is not balanced. Many doctors say we do not need clomid or hcg unless we are having fertility problems. Are all these doctors are naive?I say No. HCG is not solution for everything.It repelaces natural production in the body. Is that good for us? no.Who is going to monitor the levels for 40 years atleast.

If we have erection and low libido problems only, there are other ways to improve , but not TRT

Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.

[DT5]

well do you know you can live for 50 years on some of these therapys? Alot of them are new and who knows what they can do down the line, I wouldnt be surprised if some of the gels can cause skin cancer 10 years down the line

Like I said now I am wondering if there is some way to be happy without taking any hormones, I have spoken to other people who say they are ok and happy without it but at this point I dont see how it is possible

50 was an example...50 as opposed to 60. come on' man...

[joe143]

TRT is not evil, if you have a true hormone deficiancy then you need to replace the hormone.Letting low testosterone go can create a myrid of health problems.

[darkblue1]

TRT is not evil, if you have a true hormone deficiancy then you need to replace the hormone.Letting low testosterone go can create a myrid of health problems.

How do you know you have true hormone deficiency, unless you are primary.
When a person is in severe stress, his LH levels go down. Does it mean he needs to go for TRT.No. We need to find the cause for hormone problem in this case.

[joe143]

How do you know you have true hormone deficiency, unless you are primary.
When a person is in severe stress, his LH levels go down. Does it mean he needs to go for TRT.No. We need to find the cause for hormone problem in this case.

Primary is not the only form of hypogonadism as im sure you know. There isnt always a cause for secondary hypogonadism. I agree that its worth the time to explore all avenues, try to figure out the reason for low gondotropin production. But sometimes there just is no reason, and theres also no reason to keep suffering hypogonadism as well.

[The Matrix]

How do you know you have true hormone deficiency, unless you are primary.
When a person is in severe stress, his LH levels go down. Does it mean he needs to go for TRT.No. We need to find the cause for hormone problem in this case.

First thing I do is evaluate lifestyle, sleep and nutritional patterns, as well as emotional and spiritual aspects of ones life. Then I take things from there with further suggestions or specific modalities which may be implimented.

[DT5]

How do you know you have true hormone deficiency, unless you are primary.
When a person is in severe stress, his LH levels go down. Does it mean he needs to go for TRT.No. We need to find the cause for hormone problem in this case.

again...no one has given too much info on what these "reasons" could be. tell me a cause of my primary or secondary deficiency? im going to treat my symptoms, and if thats causes me to live a few years shorter (which is not proven, and i may actually live longer, but no one will ever know the reason), then im going to treat them.

on a serious note...does someone with low test go into his primary care doctor and say "doc, tell me why my test is low"...he will say "there are alot of reasons, and there is no specific way to tell". so honestly, i dont know how to even find out "these reasons"....

[The Matrix]

How do you know you have true hormone deficiency, unless you are primary.
When a person is in severe stress, his LH levels go down. Does it mean he needs to go for TRT.No. We need to find the cause for hormone problem in this case.

First thing I do is evaluate lifestyle, sleep and nutritional patterns, as well as emotional and spiritual aspects of ones life. Then I take things from there with further suggestions or specific modalities which may be implimented. Age depends on alot if they are able to recover. Most peoople in their early 20's may never need TRT once the imbalances are found and corrected. Some times there are people that just do not respond over a 3-6 months peroid and will need further medical intervention

[DT5]

First thing I do is evaluate lifestyle, sleep and nutritional patterns, as well as emotional and spiritual aspects of ones life. Then I take things from there with further suggestions or specific modalities which may be implimented.

spiritual, please enlighten me on this. i didnt know spirituality had ANY connection to science/medicine..but please do tell.

[The Matrix]

spiritual, please enlighten me on this. i didnt know spirituality had ANY connection to science/medicine..but please do tell.

A persons believe system can either help them or destroy them.
For example some religions do not want help from Dr's and a child with a simple cold could end up dying from pneumonia. I have seen it happen first hand to a few people i was close too. If a person does not have anything to believe in then there for there is no hope. No hope = more dispair. Ever notce why people start crying out for GOD in time of need, but no other time in life?

By the way prayer is a proven fact and now science is explaining why it works and is implying it to modern medicine. Quantum medicine will be the wave of the future...Which i am already starting to study.. All prayer is energetic transferance of positice energy from one source to another.

[K1212]

K212, Dont go TRT. Dont even try to experiment it.

Here is my personal experience.

My testosterone level was 223 which is below normal range in March of 2008. I experienced low libido, very low energy levels, loss of weight, loss of muscle, head ache, shrinkage of testicles , low concentration, abnormal sleep disturbances. I used to get erections only during sleep for only few minutes, but it was too big ,strong erection. But it used to ga away within minutes, Something was happening in my body at that time. I could not expalin what was that. I used to get up 6 to 7 times in 7 hours.But still no energy when i wake up. I was losing my muscle during sleep. So i was scared to sleep. During time I tried to get erection by stimualting, When i get it, It was huge , stronger one (abnormal ).But I could not release. I had pain in lower abdomen. I had ultra sound in that area , nothing was found, Then my PCP tested for testosterone, Found that i have low testosterone. So I thought these symptoms are because of low testosterone.Also he refered me to urlogist for possible varicocele and low tetsosterone. But i could not get appointment for 2 months. So i went to emergency and they did scrotal ultrasound, found bi lateral varicoceles. Next week I went to the urologist , he said these are not the sysmptoms of low testosterone. The he refered to another urologist who deals with infertility . That urologist tested me for LH and FSH. My LH was 0.2 which is way below than normal range. He was surprised with my testosterone levels too. He said I am normal and my body is like that. He also said varicoceles has nothing to do with it. He also told me that my testicle dont get my size back and testosterone does not come back after surgery. I told him that my testicle will shrink more if I wont be having surgery. He said,you dont lose the size. I showed him many articles that shows problems that come with varicoceles.He said one of the doctors who wrote that article was his friend and he does it for money. He refered me to endocronologist. Endocronologist sent me to pituitary MRI . It came normal. He dont know why I have low testosterone. I asked him for clomid or HCG, he said he is not experienced in prescribing those. He refered me to fertility clinic to test for semen analysis, Urologists also refered me to semen analysis. When I went for that test, I got erection (huge,abnormal) but I could not release . When I tried to masturbate, I felet like somebody were draining my energy out form my muscles (legs,thighs ,hip and arms). We came back. My wife became disappointed . Endo put me on androgel . I used to for 3 days and I felt like crap, I felt more tired and I was losing more muscle than before.But I got nocturnal erections for more duration (but it was hell when I had those erections) felt like something was happening to my body.I told this to urologist and endo also. But urologist told my endo that I am pshycologically not good.My disappointed with these doctors. She wanted to have baby. pressurised me to have sex, I did it even though I was not interested. I stopped Androgel and did not go for follow up. And I did not visit any doctor for 2 weeks. Then My wife missed her period and knew that she became pregnant.
I went to neurologist also to know wwhwy I was losing muscle and weekness in legs and hands. He sent me for head,spine (lower,upper and middle ) MRI,Everything came back normal.
Then I went to endocronologist and told him that anrodgel is not working for me ,also told that My wife is pregnant.He put me on cypionate injections 200 every two weeks. I used it for 2 months. I was gaining weight at belly but not at other parts and it did not give me any benefits in any department. I felet same as before except that I get nocturnal erections for longer time. But that was the main culprit( I knew this later by myself). I sent him mail askign why I am not gaining any weight and still feel same as before. He did not ahve any answer. I thought I may gain weight using it for two months ( as most of the who are on TRT on this forum and other forums told so), but I did not.So I stopped it. Then I stopped visiting any doctors. For one month I analysed all the symptoms and the reasons for them. During sleep I was getting huge ,abnormal erections (it was like iron rod), same time I was losing weight and could not sleep. That means I had more energy in my thing when i get erections. It was taking all energy from other parts of body. I made a quick decision to do something about this, otherwise I will slowly die soon.That decision brought my life back.
Now my erections are normal (still hard but not abnormal life before). Energy is balanced on other parts. Slowly gaining my weight and muscles.I do not feel any symptoms of low testosterone.
This is one case where it proves that by going on TRT, we can not resolve all issues.
Another thing we need to note that , There was no TRT few years back. how did those people survive who had problem ( like we guys here assume) with testosterone levels.They still survived and lived for long years.I am not talking about who are primary.I am talking about those who are secondary. When allmost all urlogists say that you are normal when LH levels are still very low, that means there is something that is causing this, but even they do not know what is causing this?That does not mean that we need to go on TRT. In some cases medicines can not help. When your body is not balanced, it causes all sort of symptoms. We need to find where it is not balanced. Many doctors say we do not need clomid or hcg unless we are having fertility problems. Are all these doctors are naive?I say No. HCG is not solution for everything.It repelaces natural production in the body. Is that good for us? no.Who is going to monitor the levels for 40 years atleast.

If we have erection and low libido problems only, there are other ways to improve , but not TRT

Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.

are you able to function ok as far as working? And do you know the name of that doctor who told people the Varicocle Surgery helps with the Testosterone, was he named Dr. Goldstein? I almost made an appointment with him but he charged like $9,000 for the ****ing surgery and $450 for the intial appointment, he is also the innovator of the micro surgical Varicocle surgery from what I heard

[DT5]

A persons believe system can either help them or destroy them.
For example some religions do not want help from Dr's and a child with a simple cold could end up dying from pneumonia. I have seen it happen first hand to a few people i was close too. If a person does not have anything to believe in then there for there is no hope. No hope = more dispair. Ever notce why people start crying out for GOD in time of need, but no other time in life?

By the way prayer is a proven fact and now science is explaining why it works and is implying it to modern medicine. Quantum medicine will be the wave of the future...Which i am already starting to study.. All prayer is energetic transferance of positice energy from one source to another.

I have no faith, and live a better and more meaningful life than most. also, i wont cry for something that isnt there when im about to die. its a normal life process. i guess i have "no hope" lol.

science and religion are two different things, dont group them together. this conversation has no place for any flying spagetti monsters. get back to real knowlegde please. thanks

[darkblue1]

A persons believe system can either help them or destroy them.
All prayer is energetic transferance of positice energy from one source to another.

You are right. That's how I got cured. This energetic transfer of positive energy form one source to another , can be from any body who has more energy and they should know how to transfer it to all parts of the body and balance it. Matrix, you are on the right path...Also please continue to study on energy areas in body and the consequences of manipulating them. I know your approach is different than any other anti aging docs that are refered by our friends here . And I appreciate your method.

[darkblue1]

are you able to function ok as far as working? And do you know the name of that doctor who told people the Varicocle Surgery helps with the Testosterone, was he named Dr. Goldstein? I almost made an appointment with him but he charged like $9,000 for the ****ing surgery and $450 for the intial appointment, he is also the innovator of the micro surgical Varicocle surgery from what I heard

Yes, he is Dr.Goldstein. I took a print out of article written by him which says that varicocele surgery helped guys who has low testosterone and showed it to my urologists.He just threw it away from him and said he is his friend and he makes lot of money from these surgeries. And you gave me the proof that he is charging $9000. thats too much. I thought all my symptoms caused by varicocele,but no.I was wrong. I am functioning very fine as far as working. I can instant erections and longer and can release. Once in three days I masturbate.For my age, i think that's good enough .K1212, some imbalance happened to your body.Until you balance it, you cannot go back to normal.

[darkblue1]

again...no one has given too much info on what these "reasons" could be. tell me a cause of my primary or secondary deficiency? im going to treat my symptoms, and if thats causes me to live a few years shorter (which is not proven, and i may actually live longer, but no one will ever know the reason), then im going to treat them.

on a serious note...does someone with low test go into his primary care doctor and say "doc, tell me why my test is low"...he will say "there are alot of reasons, and there is no specific way to tell". so honestly, i dont know how to even find out "these reasons"....

Reason for primary....testicles not working from birth or they stopped working due to some damage to them.
Reason for secondary -
1 - Due to steroids
2 - nobody knows, and we can cure it without TRT.

[darkblue1]

I have no faith, and live a better and more meaningful life than most. also, i wont cry for something that isnt there when im about to die. its a normal life process. i guess i have "no hope" lol.

science and religion are two different things, dont group them together. this conversation has no place for any flying spagetti monsters. get back to real knowlegde please. thanks

DT5,

You can live better without any faith in relegion.But when something happened to your body, you can get benefits from prayer. By praying, you can get divine energy transfered to your body.This happens when the prayer is done with true spirit.

[darkblue1]

But sometimes there just is no reason, and theres also no reason to keep suffering hypogonadism as well.

But there is no fix for it either, because low testosteorne is not the only concern here.People keep on trying on different combinations
1 - androgel or testim
2 - cypionate
3 - cypionate + clomid
4- cypionate + hcg
5 - cypionate + clomid + ai
Other than these there are lot of things people are using.
Show me one guy who is using fixed prescription for more than 3 years and feeling happy ( as before)