LeanGuy's restart saga

[LeanGuy]

Here's my 1 yr restart saga...

12/2007: Total T = 440, libido/ED issues
2/2008: Try TRT using compounded T gel
4/2008: Total T goes DOWN to 260, yikes!
5/2008: Start clomid 12.5mg/ED
7/2008: Total T = 760, libido better
10/2008: Total T = 500
11/2008: Start clomid 12.5mg/ED
12/2008: Total T = 930 (wow), libido just ok

So now my natural T is high but libido still just ok?! I think my E2 is still low... I'll be testing it again in a month. But my 2nd response to clomid was really strong... over the limit after one month. This time around I've been taking it with extra zinc, toco-8 and better sleep. Hopefully I can keep it going... there is no need to consider TRT since the boyz are obviously working well

[texastea]

Since E2 can't accurately be measured during a SERM restart (AFAIK), controlling E2 is likely a guessing game. Have you done anything, besides relying on the Clomid, to bring your E2 up?

My Total Test is at 224 and I am, like you, far more interested in seeing whether I can avoid a life-long TRT regimen by attempting a restart. I recently ordered a supply of Nolvadex (liquid research variety) and will start my program in a week or so.

I'll be checking back for your success and comments. Hope everything works out.

[LeanGuy]

Since E2 can't accurately be measured during a SERM restart (AFAIK), controlling E2 is likely a guessing game. Have you done anything, besides relying on the Clomid, to bring your E2 up?

Yep, that's why I'm waiting until I'm off clomid to test E2. Maybe libido is just "ok" because the clomid is still plugging all the estrogen receptors. I'm also taking extra DHEA in hope some will aromatize into estrogen. What else can we do to increase E2?

Good luck on your restart... post your progress.

[The Matrix]

Yep, that's why I'm waiting until I'm off clomid to test E2. Maybe libido is just "ok" because the clomid is still plugging all the estrogen receptors. I'm also taking extra DHEA in hope some will aromatize into estrogen. What else can we do to increase E2?

Good luck on your restart... post your progress.

More dhea LOL
You could have an over reactive cyp1a enzyme in liver..
MAN what some of us would kill for to have that..If I had that dude I be slamming in testosterone like no tommorrow

[cumkwakka]

more dhea

[JanSz]

Yep, that's why I'm waiting until I'm off clomid to test E2. Maybe libido is just "ok" because the clomid is still plugging all the estrogen receptors. I'm also taking extra DHEA in hope some will aromatize into estrogen. What else can we do to increase E2?

Good luck on your restart... post your progress.

HCG

[LeanGuy]

HCG

Haha, I'm sure I'd respond well to HCG monotherapy. Too bad it kills natural LH.

[texastea]

Haha, I'm sure I'd respond well to HCG monotherapy. Too bad it kills natural LH.

I was surprised to find that my E2 measured at 11 (sensitive test per LabCorp). Anyway, I'm considering preceding my Nolvadex restart program with a light 2 week regimen of HCG (250 IUs EOD, totalling 2,000 IUs). I'm hoping to get the testicles up and running so that they are operating well when the Nolva kicks in. Don't know whether such a short run of HCG will suppress natural production, though.

[thenxtgrt1]

Here's my 1 yr restart saga...

12/2007: Total T = 440, libido/ED issues
2/2008: Try TRT using compounded T gel
4/2008: Total T goes DOWN to 260, yikes!
5/2008: Start clomid 12.5mg/ED
7/2008: Total T = 760, libido better
10/2008: Total T = 500
11/2008: Start clomid 12.5mg/ED
12/2008: Total T = 930 (wow), libido just ok

So now my natural T is high but libido still just ok?! I think my E2 is still low... I'll be testing it again in a month. But my 2nd response to clomid was really strong... over the limit after one month. This time around I've been taking it with extra zinc, toco-8 and better sleep. Hopefully I can keep it going... there is no need to consider TRT since the boyz are obviously working well

You had a great response. Interesting that it's much higher than first trial. How does your libido compare to 07/08?

[LeanGuy]

You had a great response. Interesting that it's much higher than first trial. How does your libido compare to 07/08?

Better, but still up and down... I don't think most guys libido is good while taking clomid. I am going to taper off now.

[thenxtgrt1]

Better, but still up and down... I don't think most guys libido is good while taking clomid. I am going to taper off now.

I'm glad it's going well for you. I believe when I consult with my dr during the next visit, he will put me on either clomid or nolva.

I actually got a super high T level from HCG. But I would rather have it be that way in a more natural way. If that makes sense.

If clomid is not successful, I can always go back to hcg and tweak a few things. Is 12.5 mg ED a standard dosage?

[LeanGuy]

Is 12.5 mg ED a standard dosage?

Yep, I wouldn't want to do any more because of possible sides.

[LeanGuy]

Updated labs, blood drawn 2 weeks after stopping clomid. Its obvious high levels will not hold... FSH/LH have dropped quite a bit. Going to ask for hCG tomorrow. It amazes me... these labs look decent but I still have low libido, erections, sleep etc.

LH 2.8 mIU/mL [1.5-9.3]
FSH 2.9 mIU/mL [1.4-18.1]
SHBG 29 nmol/L [13-71]
Testosterone 697 ng/dL [241-827]
Free Testosterone 17.5 pg/mL [8.7-25.1]
BAT (calculated) 393 ng/dL 56.4%
Estradiol 22 pg/mL [0-53] *NOT SENSITIVE
DHEA-S 269 ug/dL [120-520]

TSH 2.074 uIU/mL [0.450-4.500]
T4 Free 1.10 ng/dL [0.61-1.76]
T3 Free 3.1 pg/mL [2.3-4.2]
Reverse T3 281 pg/mL [90-350]
Cortisol 14.8 ug/dL [3.1-22.4]
Prolactin 8.9 ng/mL [2.1-17.7]
Albumin 4.3 g/dL [3.5-5.5]
Glucose 87 md/dL [65-99]
HDL Cholesterol 72 mg/dL [>39]
LDL Cholesterol 100 mg/dL [0-99]

[cumkwakka]

Updated labs, blood drawn 2 weeks after stopping clomid. Its obvious high levels will not hold... FSH/LH have dropped quite a bit. Going to ask for hCG tomorrow. It amazes me... these labs look decent but I still have low libido, erections, sleep etc.

LH 2.8 mIU/mL [1.5-9.3]
FSH 2.9 mIU/mL [1.4-18.1]
SHBG 29 nmol/L [13-71]
Testosterone 697 ng/dL [241-827]
Free Testosterone 17.5 pg/mL [8.7-25.1]
BAT (calculated) 393 ng/dL 56.4%
Estradiol 22 pg/mL [0-53] *NOT SENSITIVE
DHEA-S 269 ug/dL [120-520]

TSH 2.074 uIU/mL [0.450-4.500]
T4 Free 1.10 ng/dL [0.61-1.76]
T3 Free 3.1 pg/mL [2.3-4.2]
Reverse T3 281 pg/mL [90-350]
Cortisol 14.8 ug/dL [3.1-22.4]
Prolactin 8.9 ng/mL [2.1-17.7]
Albumin 4.3 g/dL [3.5-5.5]
Glucose 87 md/dL [65-99]
HDL Cholesterol 72 mg/dL [>39]
LDL Cholesterol 100 mg/dL [0-99]

damn these labs do look good

i hope matrix can chime in on what other possibilities there are for having low libido / bad wood with such labs

could it be the thyroid low t4?

could it be low dopamine/neurotransmitters?

vitamin/mineral deficiency?

low growth hormone?

bad bloodflow? does viagra work well for you..?

[LeanGuy]

bad bloodflow? does viagra work well for you..?

Never tried viagra. I think its bad sleep.

BTW LJ100 has done nothing after 1 week.

[jinxie]

Updated labs, blood drawn 2 weeks after stopping clomid. Its obvious high levels will not hold... FSH/LH have dropped quite a bit. Going to ask for hCG tomorrow. It amazes me... these labs look decent but I still have low libido, erections, sleep etc.

LH 2.8 mIU/mL [1.5-9.3]
FSH 2.9 mIU/mL [1.4-18.1]
SHBG 29 nmol/L [13-71]
Testosterone 697 ng/dL [241-827]
Free Testosterone 17.5 pg/mL [8.7-25.1]
BAT (calculated) 393 ng/dL 56.4%
Estradiol 22 pg/mL [0-53] *NOT SENSITIVE
DHEA-S 269 ug/dL [120-520]

TSH 2.074 uIU/mL [0.450-4.500]
T4 Free 1.10 ng/dL [0.61-1.76]
T3 Free 3.1 pg/mL [2.3-4.2]
Reverse T3 281 pg/mL [90-350]
Cortisol 14.8 ug/dL [3.1-22.4]
Prolactin 8.9 ng/mL [2.1-17.7]
Albumin 4.3 g/dL [3.5-5.5]
Glucose 87 md/dL [65-99]
HDL Cholesterol 72 mg/dL [>39]
LDL Cholesterol 100 mg/dL [0-99]

Very nice HDL, leanguy. As a side note, you may want to try thyroid therapy. Your TSH is a little high, suggesting your thyroid is working hard. .5-1.0 gram of Armour may help your libido. Others have so reported.

I agree about Clomid potentially killing libido. Personally, I question whether your T level is the issue. Your level is at least average. Then again, maybe you are intended to have more than average. Have you tried deprenyl? May also be worth a shot, to kick up dopamine. Though, as I recall, you have experimented with increasing dopamine.

I know you've been at this for a while, and my heart goes out to you, brother. I hope you can find a solution soon.

[LeanGuy]

Very nice HDL, leanguy. As a side note, you may want to try thyroid therapy. Your TSH is a little high, suggesting your thyroid is working hard. .5-1.0 gram of Armour may help your libido. Others have so reported.

I agree about Clomid potentially killing libido. Personally, I question whether your T level is the issue. Your level is at least average. Then again, maybe you are intended to have more than average. Have you tried deprenyl? May also be worth a shot, to kick up dopamine. Though, as I recall, you have experimented with increasing dopamine.

I know you've been at this for a while, and my heart goes out to you, brother. I hope you can find a solution soon.

Thanks Jinxie. I have tried thyroid but the doc didn't give me HC and got very anxious. It might be worth trying again w/ a little HC. Its also worth noting that my RHEIN urine test shows very low testosterone (way below range)... some say this is more accurate than blood... and it surely agrees with the way I feel.

[Frank Reynolds]

I am by no means an expert but i can say this.. I have been going through similar situations as you..

My tt was 350-435 depending, as it was tested 3-4 times over a year with no DR wanting to help me.. After finding a DR who atleast would treat me, he gave me HCG (only one month unfortunately) felt great when on it, but feelings ceased when off.. My test just came back at 490 after being off for a month.

My DHEA-S came back at 280(never had it tested prior), and i have since added LEF Dhea, and my libido is on a STEADY rise, for the first time in over a year, i am getting desire, random wood, etc again. I have changed nothing but the addition of DHEA.

I plan to give an extended clomid restart a try in the next few months.