My Labs are almost tuned! Update

[colorado]

25 YO Male on TRT cyp 200mg a week: wed 100mg sunday 100mg
A-dex .3mg the day after injections

Total Test 1377ng/dl Range 263-1593
Free Test 45.4 Range 8.8-27
E2 22.4 Range 0-44
Total estrogen 80 Range less than 130
DHEA 460 Range 260-640
PSA 1.3 Range .07-4.0
Colesterol 170
LDL 134
HDL 36 Range 39-60

Planing on throwing in 25mg of DHEA daily. Also thinking about taking some policosonol and possibly some niacin for my cholesterol. My BP is sometime high but mostly due to higher preserve diet occasionaly. these labs were taken 48hrs after my shot. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Your help and advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[axa0176]

Man!

How do you convince a doctor to let you stay at 1377 ng/dl?

 

[The Matrix]

25 YO Male on TRT cyp 200mg a week: wed 100mg sunday 100mg
A-dex .3mg the day after injections

Total Test 1377ng/dl Range 263-1593
Free Test 45.4 Range 8.8-27
E2 22.4 Range 0-44
Total estrogen 80 Range less than 130
DHEA 460 Range 260-640
PSA 1.3 Range .07-4.0
Colesterol 170
LDL 134
HDL 36 Range 39-60

Planing on throwing in 25mg of DHEA daily. Also thinking about taking some policosonol and possibly some niacin for my cholesterol. My BP is sometime high but mostly due to higher preserve diet occasionaly. these labs were taken 48hrs after my shot. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Your help and advice is greatly appreciated!

Would not play the number game if you feel good do not screw with it. I be more concerned about your lipds then screwing with DHEA. IF your free T is double the high end that is what causing your estrogen problems in the first place. You sure 1377 is the proper range because according to your free testosteorne it be more like 253 to 1050 or something like that instead of 800. Obviously this is an out side lab so validity can not be verified. I would get your numbers retested. Either you are a hyper excretor or you are not getting it deep enough into the tissue and its converting to estrogen. The numbers just do not look right for amount of T you are taking. Estrodial of 0-44 is not an acceptable test for males so you can not go by those numbers 13-54 yes but not that one.

 

[colorado]

Matrix,
from past test ive droped 100 ng/dl a day (total test) so im assuming thats what you mean by hyper excretor. The dr's dont understand why my blood is dropping off soo fast.

I have been having some nipple sensitivity but if i take too much more adex i feel pretty shut down libido wise. My energy is pretty decent but i feel like i could be better. Should i add HCG?

I have to pin at least twice a week so i keep my levels from falling off. Im currently using 25g 5/8 needls for delts and 25g 1 inch for glutes (piriformis). Ive noticed that the lab they use has a higher Testosterone value than other labs. I am concerned about my lipids, any other suggestions? The nurse called my results in over the phone and ill recieve the numbers via mail, maybe something something was verbalized wrong over the phone.

 

[The Matrix]

Matrix,
from past test ive droped 100 ng/dl a day (total test) so im assuming thats what you mean by hyper excretor. The dr's dont understand why my blood is dropping off soo fast.

I have been having some nipple sensitivity but if i take too much more adex i feel pretty shut down libido wise. My energy is pretty decent but i feel like i could be better. Should i add HCG?

I have to pin at least twice a week so i keep my levels from falling off. Im currently using 25g 5/8 needls for delts and 25g 1 inch for glutes (piriformis). Ive noticed that the lab they use has a higher Testosterone value than other labs. I am concerned about my lipids, any other suggestions? The nurse called my results in over the phone and ill recieve the numbers via mail, maybe something something was verbalized wrong over the phone.

My speculation is that the lab numbers are wrong and there was a verbal mistake. Give your amount of free T to the total T in the range does not add up, but if you where to take inconsideration lab been top end of 800-1000 then yes then it could make sense. if you reduced your dosage into the "proper" range then your e2 would come down even more . 100 ng/ml in one day is no big deal. I have seen it go 2-300 in some people. When testosterone levels are elevated past the physiological limit you start to have lipids issue as you are experiencing.. My suggestion is to verify it the range then because some thing is not adding up with the numbers. BTW this protocol is the same that these life extentionist place use all the time and have goofy ass lab numbers.
200 mgs of test then slap it some adex to offset the estrogen resulting in great numbers, but altered lipid profiles. No good HRT dr would put a person on 200 mgs of testosterone right off the bat unless there is a metabolic issue with absorption or hyper excretor..THAT IS VERY RARE ..So I question your dr's logic on things

 

[JanSz]

25 YO Male on TRT cyp 200mg a week: wed 100mg sunday 100mg
A-dex .3mg the day after injections

Total Test 1377ng/dl Range 263-1593
Free Test 45.4 Range 8.8-27
E2 22.4 Range 0-44
Total estrogen 80 Range less than 130
DHEA 460 Range 260-640
PSA 1.3 Range .07-4.0
Colesterol 170
LDL 134
HDL 36 Range 39-60

Planing on throwing in 25mg of DHEA daily. Also thinking about taking some policosonol and possibly some niacin for my cholesterol. My BP is sometime high but mostly due to higher preserve diet occasionaly. these labs were taken 48hrs after my shot. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Your help and advice is greatly appreciated!

It would be better if you could post your SHBG.
Your real FreeT could be evaluated using chart.

Blood analysis of FreeT is totally unreliable.
Once in a blue moon you get good value just to confuse arguments.

Yes to niacin and little bit of DHEA to get DHEAs(500-640)

Not sure if you E2 test is valid, if valid, the 22.4 looks about righ.
.
.
You 200mg/week dose is on a high side, to play safe I would be checking:

17 • Iron and Iron Binding Capacity (7573X) - (356N)
18 • Iron, Total (571X) - (24984P)
19 • Ferritin (457X) - (22764P)
20 • Transferrin (891X) - (30346P)
21 • Folate, RBC & Hematocrit - (1768N)
22 • Hemoglobin A1c (496X) - (45484P)
23 • Hemoglobin, Plasma (514X) - (7211P)

If you come ok the first time, latter on do just:
19 • Ferritin (457X) - (22764P)
21 • Folate, RBC & Hematocrit - (1768N)

 

[colorado]

Ive been the rare occaision with my Dr, endro, and University of Washington Endro specialist. Ive used prohormones and anabolics starting at age 19. Prohormones messed me up pretty bad so i turned to using anabolics ranging from 375mg-1250mg of testosterone weekly. My last cycle in hopes of restoring my body to normal levels lasted for only a year before i had problems. I have consistant blood work starting in april of this year. My T levels were i believe 160ng/dl so i started androgel treatment which did nothing. So then i started taking 100mg of cyp every 2 weeks which made my test fall even lower to 140ng/dl. they bumped me up to 200 every 2 weeks and that brought it up to i believe 240ng/dl. so after another 6 weeks they put me on 300mg every 2 weeks so i asked if i could do 150 every week to avoid the fall off in t-levels and they agreed. that dosage put me at 480ng/dl and free test was at 26 i believe. The doc prescribed 200mg a week just in case because they said my body for some reason metabolises the test too fast. The reason im sticking with my original dr. is because he has been the most through, and is very willing to work with me and run test when needed. They have used two different labs and the other has been pretty consistant diagnostics as some posted here on the site. Ill get ALL of my Blood work numbers up tonight since april so you can get a better idead, the newest are in the mail being sent to me as we speak. Does my body fat have anything to do with my bodys ability to absorb or utilize the test? My height is 5' 10" 189 lbs 8% Bf in the winter months. Im very lean and i do physical training for a living so im very good with eating and exercise. I still feel a bit weak or even fatigued at times which is surprising with such hi test levels etc. I appreciate your help Janz and The Matrix.. its greatly appreciated. Ive been battling this with my dr all year and they havent had too many answers or solutions to my problems which has been somewhat frustrating. So im trying to get very educated and in tune with my body. Im open to anythning and im not by any means trying to get to suboptimal levels or anything and id like to get my blood work finely tuned to whats optimal for a 21-29 year old male!

 

[The Matrix]

Ive been the rare occaision with my Dr, endro, and University of Washington Endro specialist. Ive used prohormones and anabolics starting at age 19. Prohormones messed me up pretty bad so i turned to using anabolics ranging from 375mg-1250mg of testosterone weekly. My last cycle in hopes of restoring my body to normal levels lasted for only a year before i had problems. I have consistant blood work starting in april of this year. My T levels were i believe 160ng/dl so i started androgel treatment which did nothing. So then i started taking 100mg of cyp every 2 weeks which made my test fall even lower to 140ng/dl. they bumped me up to 200 every 2 weeks and that brought it up to i believe 240ng/dl. so after another 6 weeks they put me on 300mg every 2 weeks so i asked if i could do 150 every week to avoid the fall off in t-levels and they agreed. that dosage put me at 480ng/dl and free test was at 26 i believe. The doc prescribed 200mg a week just in case because they said my body for some reason metabolises the test too fast. The reason im sticking with my original dr. is because he has been the most through, and is very willing to work with me and run test when needed. They have used two different labs and the other has been pretty consistant diagnostics as some posted here on the site. Ill get ALL of my Blood work numbers up tonight since april so you can get a better idead, the newest are in the mail being sent to me as we speak. Does my body fat have anything to do with my bodys ability to absorb or utilize the test? My height is 5' 10" 189 lbs 8% Bf in the winter months. Im very lean and i do physical training for a living so im very good with eating and exercise. I still feel a bit weak or even fatigued at times which is surprising with such hi test levels etc. I appreciate your help Janz and The Matrix.. its greatly appreciated. Ive been battling this with my dr all year and they havent had too many answers or solutions to my problems which has been somewhat frustrating. So im trying to get very educated and in tune with my body. Im open to anythning and im not by any means trying to get to suboptimal levels or anything and id like to get my blood work finely tuned to whats optimal for a 21-29 year old male!

Your solution may be that you desensitize your testosterone receptors from previous steroid use. I would do rhiens urine test to give you more insight to metabolism of your hormones.
If you are still feeling like crap hit the thyroid and adrenals..
This is common in about 90% of people not feeling good on TRT.

 

[colorado]

Ok here is my lab history since 4/21/2008: diagnosis- Hypogonadism Secondary

Reporting Lab: Digestive HealthLaboratory 4/21/08
DHEA Sulfate 260 mcg/dL (110-510)
LH 2.7 mlU/mL (1.5-9.3)
FSH 1.9 mlU/mL (1.0-8.0)
Testosterone 160 Ng/dL (241.0-827.0)

I need to put in a request for some missing lab paper work from 4/21/08-7/1/08

-Perscribed Androgel 10 pumps ED (Did absolutely nothing) dr. claimed i only had suboptimal response to medication
-Started Test Cyp 200mg on 5/28/08 (Felt Great for 2 days, then back to crap)
-200mg cyp inject on 6/25/08 and had blood work on 6/26/08

Reporting Lab: Digestive Health Laboratory (recieved in lab 7/1/2008 4:26pm)
Testosterone 980 (241.0-827.0)

Reporting Lab: Laboratories Northwest (@ Endrocrinologist)7/8/08 11:45AM

Sodium 141 (135-145 mEq/L)
Potassium 3.8 (3.6-5.3 mEq/L)
Chloride 105 (98-109 mEq/L)
CO2 26 (21-28 mEq/L)
BUN 19 (8-24 mg/dL)
Creatinine 1.4 (0.7-1.5 mg/dL)
GFR non African Amer 66 (>59 mL/min)
GFR African Amer 79 (>59 mL/min)
Glucose 72 (65-120 mg/dL)
Calcium 9.8 (8.5-10.5 mg/dL)
Testosterone 280 (262-1593 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone *7.6 (8.8-27.0 pg/ml)
LH *<0.1 (1.4-7.7 mIU/mL)

-7/9/08 200mg test (still on every 2 weeks feel like crap! )
-7/15/08 MRI of Pituatary, checked out normal

Reporting Lab: Northwest Laboratories 7/22/08 9:45am

Testosterone *172 (262-1593 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone *4.5 (8.8-27 pg/ml)
Estradiol 17.9 (0-44 pg/mL) not taking any AI yet...
TSH 1.45 (0.25-5.0 pIU/mL)
FT4 0.97 (0.69-1.55 ng/dL)
Direct HDLC 39 (39-60 mg/dL)
Cholesterol 138 (110-200 mg/dL)
Triglycerides 51 (10-175 mg/dL)
LDL 89 (10-175 mg/dL)
VLDL 10 (no range indicated...)
CHOL/dHDL 3.57 ratio (no range indicated...)

-Dr. wanted me to go up to 300mg cyp every two weeks, i asked if i could do weekly inject of 150mg and they said ok
so i front loaded 300mg cyp on 7/23/08
-Night sweats started really bad!! Very bad Migrane headaches followed.
-felt absolutely exhuasted, couldnt even mow my lawn! rediculous!!

University of Washington Medical Center (UW Medicine Specialist) 8/4/08
Total Testosterone 5.2 ng/ml
LH < 1 mlU/ml
TSH 0.513 microlU/mL
Free T4 0.7 ng/dL
Prolactin 9 ng/mL

-dr at UW stated that i had bilateral gynocomastia, so i asked if i could use an AI and he said NO....
-I started Letrozole 8/11/08 @.25mg and worked up to 2.5mg then back down to .25mg

Reporting Lab: Unknown as of now need to recieve results via mail 9/3/08 nurse called in results
Testosterone 486 (262-1593 ng/dL)
Free test 26 (8.8-27.0)

-Libido was non existant, major testicle atrpohy (felt poor blood flow/ circulation in "unit")
-started HCG 500 ius E3D for two weeks
- felt really good over the two weeks and restored normal size in testicles and "unit" libido was better
-stopped letro on 10/27/08 (shut dwn libido)
- libido got better off letro, started getting nipple sensitivity
-started Adex .20mg 10/30/08 worked up to .3mg

Today 12/11/08 current regimen. 100mg cyp wed, 100mg cyp sun and .3mg Adex 12-24 hrs after T-shots.

-been having ED, low libido again, with nipple sensitivity off/on, nipples are more so swollen or puffy. Prolactin high maybe?
- testicle atrophy again with the feeling of poor circulation
-might attempt HCG again...

Question on hitting the adrenals and thyroid.... what do i need to get/do or have done or ran... my dr is pretty cool about running more test.

 

[JanSz]

Ive been the rare occaision with my Dr, endro, and University of Washington Endro specialist. Ive used prohormones and anabolics starting at age 19. Prohormones messed me up pretty bad so i turned to using anabolics ranging from 375mg-1250mg of testosterone weekly. My last cycle in hopes of restoring my body to normal levels lasted for only a year before i had problems. I have consistant blood work starting in april of this year. My T levels were i believe 160ng/dl so i started androgel treatment which did nothing. So then i started taking 100mg of cyp every 2 weeks which made my test fall even lower to 140ng/dl. they bumped me up to 200 every 2 weeks and that brought it up to i believe 240ng/dl. so after another 6 weeks they put me on 300mg every 2 weeks so i asked if i could do 150 every week to avoid the fall off in t-levels and they agreed. that dosage put me at 480ng/dl and free test was at 26 i believe. The doc prescribed 200mg a week just in case because they said my body for some reason metabolises the test too fast. The reason im sticking with my original dr. is because he has been the most through, and is very willing to work with me and run test when needed. They have used two different labs and the other has been pretty consistant diagnostics as some posted here on the site. Ill get ALL of my Blood work numbers up tonight since april so you can get a better idead, the newest are in the mail being sent to me as we speak. Does my body fat have anything to do with my bodys ability to absorb or utilize the test? My height is 5' 10" 189 lbs 8% Bf in the winter months. Im very lean and i do physical training for a living so im very good with eating and exercise. I still feel a bit weak or even fatigued at times which is surprising with such hi test levels etc. I appreciate your help Janz and The Matrix.. its greatly appreciated. Ive been battling this with my dr all year and they havent had too many answers or solutions to my problems which has been somewhat frustrating. So im trying to get very educated and in tune with my body. Im open to anythning and im not by any means trying to get to suboptimal levels or anything and id like to get my blood work finely tuned to whats optimal for a 21-29 year old male!

Look like you are hypermetabolizer.

Threre is two guys around that are hypermetabolizers, Anyman and JackBauer.

Some docs use cobalt to slow metabolism.

I sugest that you switch to EOD, every other day Testosterone injections or if you have low DHT then use Androgel daily.

Lately I hear about how good is 24hr urine testing.
I am not sure I buy that, specially in regard to hypermetabolizers. Both blood and urine tests may be ok and usefull, but the bottom line is that you want to have certain hormonal levels in the blood.

There is some benefit in using cobalt, I suspect that really you want to have plenty of vit B12. There is a lots of cobalt in B12.

I suggest that you do your blood testing at Quest Diagnostics, blood drawn at Quest.

Do these tests:

45 Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
47 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
48 Dihydrotestosterone (204X)

Goals
BAT~575
E2(20-30)
DHT in upper range

Use EOD, every other day schedule.
You could probably safely reduce your dose to 175mg/week
that is 25units per T-shot

use these needles:

http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HOP&Product_Code=4724290&Product_Count=&Category_Code=
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95

 

[colorado]

Thanks Janz, is it expensive for those test? Ive also had really oily skin lately and my acne on back and shoulders is getting worse... so im suspecting that my DHT is high... not sure. I might try some nettle root and or possibly saw plawmento. Im going to pick up some injectable B-12 online and see if that helps with my energy. Also ill be starting some Policosinol and niacin for my cholesterol.

 

[The Matrix]

Thanks Janz, is it expensive for those test? Ive also had really oily skin lately and my acne on back and shoulders is getting worse... so im suspecting that my DHT is high... not sure. I might try some nettle root and or possibly saw plawmento. Im going to pick up some injectable B-12 online and see if that helps with my energy. Also ill be starting some Policosinol and niacin for my cholesterol.

Your cholesterol is too low meaning that you are malabsorbing fats or have a low fat diet. With out this you can not make your testosteorne or adrenal hormones. It also can affect your mental stability as well as detoxifcation of heavy metals.

 

[colorado]

I actually eat a pretty mod/hi fat diet approximately 50-70grams daily through adams PB, Seaseme oil, Fish oil, and raw almonds.

 

[The Matrix]

I actually eat a pretty mod/hi fat diet approximately 50-70grams daily through adams PB, Seaseme oil, Fish oil, and raw almonds.

Is your fiber intake extremly high soluable fiber?
Fiber binds with cholesterol in the intestinal track..

 

[colorado]

Matrix,
You know what, yes! I eat oatmeal in the morning (soluable) and fiber one cereal before bed. Brown rice or pasta throughout the day. Im getting about 50-60 grams of fiber daily. which sometimes is too much because my stomach bothers me with bloating and gas so ive tried backing down on my fiber. I had my docter test me for celiac disease because my stomach hurt soo bad throughout the day, especially in the evenings after my workouts. So your saying that the high fiber could be making me feel lower on energy and affecting my cholesterol as well?

Janz,
I do think im going to switch over to the EOD shot regimen. When ive done mon. wed, fri shots ive felt pretty good. but i was also using 375mg of test weekly. Im not trying to go over 200mg. If im hypermetabolizing can my body start to build a tolerance to the more frequent injects?

 

[The Matrix]

Matrix,
You know what, yes! I eat oatmeal in the morning (soluable) and fiber one cereal before bed. Brown rice or pasta throughout the day. Im getting about 50-60 grams of fiber daily. which sometimes is too much because my stomach bothers me with bloating and gas so ive tried backing down on my fiber. I had my docter test me for celiac disease because my stomach hurt soo bad throughout the day, especially in the evenings after my workouts. So your saying that the high fiber could be making me feel lower on energy and affecting my cholesterol as well?

Janz,
I do think im going to switch over to the EOD shot regimen. When ive done mon. wed, fri shots ive felt pretty good. but i was also using 375mg of test weekly. Im not trying to go over 200mg. If im hypermetabolizing can my body start to build a tolerance to the more frequent injects?

Fiber is binder your minerals mainly zinc, copper, chromium, iron, manganese. Its also binding you cholesterol and fat in the intestinal part. Soluable fiber lowers cholesterol, (DUH)insoluable does nothing.. Your ratio of soluabl to insolubale is reverse it shouls 50/50. Fiber binds with manganese which is needed for cholesterol synthesis. YOu may also have cholesterol being stored in the liver vs being manufactuer and carried out into the blood stream. Phosphodyl choline 98% should flush that out. surprise your shbg is not out of the roof from the fiber inrelation ship to other calories'
You fiber to fat ratio should almost be 1:2. reduce fiber to 30 grams a day and you will feel alot better ...

 

[colorado]

Matrix,
Makes complete sense, ive never heard of puting those into ratios like that. Im supplementing with some nootropics currently (piracetam and choline 2-3x daily). Would that form of choline have the same effect in flushing out my liver?

Ive started the nootropics in hope of increasing cognition and and faster response to memory or calculating things. As of lately ive felt a little fuzzy like my brain isnt firing on all cylinders. Ive noticed the biggest difference in reading and memory retention.

Thank you again for ALL of your help, im starting to wonder if theres anything else going on or might be underlying with my body and mind.