PLEASE HELP! long, but please read!!
- 12-08-2008, 10:42 PM
PLEASE HELP! long, but please read!!
Hey Guys, I hope you all had a good Thanksgiving. Anyway, some of you may have read my other threads about TRT or HCG therapy. Well to make a long story short I did a 50ml of ganabol back in 2000 and then a tapered Deca (50ml) only cycle in 2002. I know uneducated and stupid. In 2004 just after having shoulder surgery I went to the doctor because I was having problems getting a erection. The doctor took blood and found my total test was at 174 and my LH was 21. I then got referred to the Mayo Clinic and was seen several times by the doctor there in which he did tests and ruled out pituitary tumors, loss of blood to the testicles, etc. They put me on Test injections and for the next 8 years my libido, emotions, etc. were like a roller coaster, but don't get me wrong it was better than not being on anything. After being on the test they would take blood every 4 months and somehow ruled me as having Hypogonadotrpic Hypogonadism or secondary hypogonadism. IN 2008 they tried me on HCG and believe it or not my testicles function normal. They started me out on 2,000 IU 3 times a week with nolvadex and I felt good and my libido and erections were like when I was a teen. After taking this for 2 months, they had me go off of everything for 2 months to see if my Pituitary would start and it didn't. They recontinued my HCG with a lowered dose and took me off the nolvadex and my erections and libido disappeared completely. Now just recently they had me on 700 IU and took blood and my results are as follows:
Hemoglobin - 16.5 - Norm13.5-17.5
Hematocrit - 48.4 - Norm38.8-50.0
Erythrocytes - 5.6 - Norm 4.32-5.72
MCV - 86.5 - Norm81.2-95.1
RBC - 13.9 - Norm11.8-15.6
Leukocytes - 6.6 - Norm3.5-10.5
Platelet Count - 236 - Norm150-450
Glucose P - 96 - Norm70-100
AST (GOT) - 43 - Norm8-48
Creatinine - 1.1 - Norm0.8-1.3
PSA - .66 - Norm0.0-2.0
TSH Sensitive S - 1.3 - Norm0.3-5.0
Thyroxine Free S - 1.4 - Norm0.8-1.8
Testosterone Total S - 353 - Norm240-950
Testosterone Bioavailable - 169 - Norm172-235
Testosterone Free S - 19.4 - Norm9-30
AM Cortisol - 13 - Norm7-25
Prolactin S - 16 - Norm3-13
Insulin Like Growth Factor - 295 - Norm113-297
Estradiol S - 49 - Norm10-40
Osmolarity - 358 - Norm300-800
My doctor thinks I should go back on HCG up to the 2000 IU 3 times a week and test in 3 months. He thinks it is working well even though I can't get an erection if my life depended on it and I have absolutely no Libido. I myself think if my pituitary was working in 04 and my testicles work now if I quit everything for a long period of time I should start back up.....What are your thoughts. My doctor thinks my HPTA should have came back in the 2 months I was off everything earlier, but maybe it needs to be longer. He states the HCG will never desensitize my testicles and has been treating patients with it for years with no change. Do any of you have any suggestions. Do you think my HPTA could ever be back to normal if I stay off everything for a period of time or maybe take Clomid???? Are there any doctors out there that can back this up or have any suggestions. What would Swale think? I live in Minnesota so ohter doctors may be a lot of traveling. Please Help!!!
- 12-08-2008, 11:18 PM
You should go back to 2,000 IU 3 times a week with nolvadex if it was working good for you. On 700 IU your results look less desirable. Maybe results would be a little better if you get your estradiol and prolactin in check. You contradict yourself though in the first paragraph you say on 2,000 IU 3 times a week you got erections like a teen then in the second paragraph you said you couldn't get one to save your life. Which is it? Without knowing the exact cause it is hard to say if a restart is possible. Try clomid. What was your blood work while taking 2,000 iu 2 times a week. This sounds like a high dose.
12-08-2008, 11:31 PM
Wow...this is definitely something different. You said back in 2004 your Test was 174 and LH was 21. That usually indicates Primary Hypogonadism, but you diagnosed as Secondary. Interesting.
I've never seen HCG with Nolva protocol??? After two month period when you realized that you weren't getting better, what was your HCG-only schedule? And were you on 700 iu/week before you had this bloodwork completed? You didn't specify.
I know what it's like to have the problems that you mentioned above. First, you have to relax. And believe that your body will regain it's vitality. It just takes time. But I know you want a solution ASAP. With that being said, you probably have a few options: You can use something like clomid to give you a boost. Or maybe another Test booster. Also, you could return to the protocol that worked for you.
I will assume that you are now hesitant to go back to such a high dosage of HCG due to desensitizing testicles. And I can't blame you for that. You will see mixed opinions on the board. Some have had great success with similar routines as the one you described above.
Do you have faith in your doctor(s)? If so, consult with him and let him know your concerns. After you weigh all the factors, you may find it to be your best option to go back to HCG/Nolva combination.
Do you have any labwork from when you were on 2000ius - 3 times a week with Nolva? If so, post it.
Some other guys on the board can probably give you good advice on how long it takes the body to bounce back after a re-start.
12-08-2008, 11:38 PM
12-09-2008, 12:26 AM
Yeah the first time I was on 2000 IU 3 times a week with the Nolva I could get erections and had great libido. When my levels were checked then they didn't check my estradiol. I would really like my body to work again on it's own. I can't see why it couldn't if my Pituitary worked in 04.
These last tests were drawn after taking the 700 iu/day. Now my doctor wants me on 2000 iu 3 times a week. I feel like I;m just chasing my tale and now I can't get an erection if my life depended on it.
Does anyone know Swale. I'd like to see what he thinks before a person flys all the way out there; plus he doesn't take insurance so I'm not sure if I could afford it anyway.
Is there any sides to taking dex or Nolva all the time? I really appreciate any help I can get. I'm 32 with 2 children and would like to get this under control so I have some sort of healthy well being.
Thanks for all your help.
12-09-2008, 04:21 PM
and it would work good for you.
I do not think dr John does HCG only theraphy.
You case is unusual since you tested
LH was 21
That usually means that one is primary and his testis are gone.
Apparently they recovered and are working again.
It appears that you currently have a doctor that is best for you.
12-09-2008, 04:56 PM
12-09-2008, 10:06 PM
Check out Dr. John's website. Don't know if I can post address. Just google Dr. John Crisler and that should bring it up. You should be able to find his contact info and some of his methodologies. Plenty of useful info on that site.
As far is HCG is concerned, he probably wouldn't recommend going over 500iu per day.
Did your Dr give you any reason on why 700iu/day would be more beneficial than 2000iu 3 * week? I didn't realize it from earlier post, but your actually taking in more HCG / wk with current strategy.
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