Testosterone Ineffective

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    Testosterone Ineffective


    I have been told that having constant high test levels renders it ineffective by my endo.Has anyone else heard of this and what is the reason?

    (on Test replacement therapy)

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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    I have been told that having constant high test levels renders it ineffective by my endo.Has anyone else heard of this and what is the reason?

    (on Test replacement therapy)
    one can get spoiled if being kept high for prolong peroid of time..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    I have been told that having constant high test levels renders it ineffective by my endo.Has anyone else heard of this and what is the reason?

    (on Test replacement therapy)
    I heard something like this from a guy on test therapy once...after a while he noticed the dose he was taking just didn't seem to work anymore. He had to keep upping the dosage to get the same positive effects. Later he switched from Test Cyp. to Test Enanthate and the positive results continued.
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    I ve decided to take acetyl l carnitine with is supposed to upregulate androgen receptor sites .
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    I ve decided to take acetyl l carnitine with is supposed to upregulate androgen receptor sites .
    Do you remember where you read that? Any linkage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull View Post
    Do you remember where you read that? Any linkage?
    1. Kraemer, William J. et al. Androgenic Responses to Resistance Exercise: Effects of Feeding and L-Carnitine. Med Sci Sports Exerc. Vol. 38, No. 7, pp. 1288-96.

    i havent read this in full but biotest use acetyl l carnitine plus other ingredients in their Receptormax and use this reference to support their claim.

    Ive read it somewhere else but ill have to search
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    found the report

    the conclusion was Conclusion: In summary, these data demonstrated that: 1) feeding after RE increased AR content, which may result in increased testosterone uptake, and thus enhanced luteinizing hormone secretion via feedback mechanisms; and 2) LCLT supplementation upregulated AR content, which may promote recovery from RE
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    Thanks and reps!
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    I have been told that having constant high test levels renders it ineffective by my endo.Has anyone else heard of this and what is the reason?

    (on Test replacement therapy)
    i think he's implying something about tolerance. similar to vicodin. you can take two per day for pain, but 30 days later, you may need 3 per day for the same effect. a smart doctor would then give you percocet instead, but most just give you more of the same. your doctor seems smarter than most, which is a very good thing.

    you combat this by switching types every month or two. with test, probably every 3-4 months. you switch test for test cyp, test eth, test suspension, etc. as long as you keep switching TYPES, your body cannot build a tolerance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    i think he's implying something about tolerance. similar to vicodin. you can take two per day for pain, but 30 days later, you may need 3 per day for the same effect. a smart doctor would then give you percocet instead, but most just give you more of the same. your doctor seems smarter than most, which is a very good thing.

    you combat this by switching types every month or two. with test, probably every 3-4 months. you switch test for test cyp, test eth, test suspension, etc. as long as you keep switching TYPES, your body cannot build a tolerance.
    I wish it was as simple as that but under the NHS in the UK , you get what your given so to speak. The last thing I want however is for him to extend the interval between injections. Currently its 11 weeks (Nebido) and this suits me fine.

    He is going to check my test levels prior to my next injection so im hoping it will have decreased quite a bit so he neednt take any further action
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    ALCAR and also NAC, supposedly helps reverse the tolerance factor.

    If someone is losing effects while their test is high, I would look into estrogens first though. With androgens being high, there is also a lot of aromatization which can negate the effects or feelings of the androgen. For bodybuilding purposes though, estrogen can be a favorable companion.

    Switching types of test doesn't make sense to me. All you are switching is the ester...the substance is still the same, and I woudl assume the amount is still the same. Maybe it changes the way it interacts with the androgen receptor because of the speed in which each ester is released though.

    I wonder if it would be beneficial to go through periods where one only uses shots + hcg, then only hcg in higher amounts, then gel + hcg, and keep rotating these methods.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    ALCAR and also NAC, supposedly helps reverse the tolerance factor.

    If someone is losing effects while their test is high, I would look into estrogens first though. With androgens being high, there is also a lot of aromatization which can negate the effects or feelings of the androgen. For bodybuilding purposes though, estrogen can be a favorable companion.
    Switching types of test doesn't make sense to me. All you are switching is the ester...the substance is still the same, and I woudl assume the amount is still the same. Maybe it changes the way it interacts with the androgen receptor because of the speed in which each ester is released though.

    I wonder if it would be beneficial to go through periods where one only uses shots + hcg, then only hcg in higher amounts, then gel + hcg, and keep rotating these methods.

    My estrogen levels are high .Can you tell me how this is favourable to bodybuilding. ? Theres a lot of emphasis on reducing estrogen so im a bit puzzled.


    If i could use the method you have quoted it would be ideal but this is the UK and the NHS where treatment is free -you get what your given
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    Acetyl l-carnitine (ALCAR) is a supplement. It's pretty cheap to purchase online or from a supplement store. Same with NAC (n-acetyl cysteine)... it's a supplement. Both are very inexpensive and readily available to the public.

    The last protocol, was just a thought...it's probably very very difficult to talk a doctor into allowing such a protocol I am sure...it would be experimental, and doctors don't like being experimental or cutting edge. I am sure people can be resourceful and give it a shot if they really want to try it out, they can always go back to the original protocol after testing it out...I'm not suggesting this though, again just a hypothesis

    High estrogen and low test is not favorable for anything. In bodybuilding, high test and a moderate amount of estrogen is beneficial. The water retention is good for lubrication and helps with strength and mass gains. Do a search on this board and you should find some good data about it. Healthwise and feeling wise, you want a better ratio of test to estrogen though.
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    Also, you may want to speak to your doctor about how T therapy shutsdown the rest of your many hormones produced by your HPTA...and try to get him/her to incorporate HCG.. You really need to backfill those necessary hormones once they become shutdown. HCG helps to release some 17 different hormones besides testosterone. HCG will also require a necessary amount of DHEA and PREG to work properly.

    You should also consider that if you are having issues, they may lay elsewhere besides your test levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Also, you may want to speak to your doctor about how T therapy shutsdown the rest of your many hormones produced by your HPTA...and try to get him/her to incorporate HCG.. You really need to backfill those necessary hormones once they become shutdown. HCG helps to release some 17 different hormones besides testosterone. HCG will also require a necessary amount of DHEA and PREG to work properly.

    You should also consider that if you are having issues, they may lay elsewhere besides your test levels.

    thanks for the info -although i have high e my test levels are good.total test almost at the top end of ref range whilest free t is about 3/4 up ref range. E though is past top end of ref range though not by much but as time goes on i expect all levels to decrease . i have read though that e takes longer to clear than test and my levels of e may be an accumlative effect as a result of several injections over a period of time, rather than just the one-just a thought i had.
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    Are you using an AI?

    High levels (or low levels) of E over time will kill your sex drive and cause ED.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Are you using an AI?

    High levels (or low levels) of E over time will kill your sex drive and cause ED.

    No not at the moment .I am using trans reservatrol and Diim though.

    I have thought about an AI but so many out there to choose from and they all claim to boost test which i dont really want.
    I cannot get hold of Arimidex so i would have to use a supplement.

    The ones that i thought might be useful would be those which you can use whilest on cycle ,which i am permanently although levels of Test decline over time (11 weeks) The SNS INHIBIT E seems to be one you can use on cycle , others like 6 oxo and Gaspari Nolvedex XT seem to be for PCT .

    Then theres 6 -bromo and many more so its left me undecided which one to use

    Whats your thoughts on this?
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    What levels of test are they talking about thou? Are we talking high normal or a little over limit as in HRT or are we talking BB with levels over 2000.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    found the report

    the conclusion was Conclusion: In summary, these data demonstrated that: 1) feeding after RE increased AR content, which may result in increased testosterone uptake, and thus enhanced luteinizing hormone secretion via feedback mechanisms; and 2) LCLT supplementation upregulated AR content, which may promote recovery from RE
    LCLT = L-Carnitine L-tartrate.

    I have not seen any studies directly linking ALCAR and upregulating ARs, only the UCONN one on LCLT. Doesn't mean there isn't one using ALCAR, I just haven't some across it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis RR View Post
    What levels of test are they talking about thou? Are we talking high normal or a little over limit as in HRT or are we talking BB with levels over 2000.
    Test isnt the issue here bound test is near top of the ref range and free is 3/4 up ref range.

    E2 is however significantly higher than top end of ref range.Its this I would like to address .
  

  
 

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