Autoimmune disorders and hormones

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    Autoimmune disorders and hormones


    Interestingly, I went to a new eye doctor this morning for an exam and discovered that I may very likely have some form of autoimmune disease via questioning of his (constantly very very dry eyes - no allergies - rashes like exema/ultra sensitive skin, clicking joints etc)...he ended up referring me to a rheumatologist. I am now wondering if this could have been the main cause of my low-normal test levels and other low levels before I started TRT.

    I have high progesterone, and I have just read this as well:

    It’s not uncommon with these disorders [including but not limited to – rheumatoid arthritis, sjogren’s syndrome, hashimoto’s thyroiditis, graves disease, lupus, rosacea] to find that their symptoms gradually resolve when they balance their hormones with progesterone.

    I also read something about 5AT (a hormone metabolite which greatly boosts the immune system) which is a DHEA and T metabolite, which can also be the cause for low T (too much T converting to 5AT which may be needed by the body to deal with an immune disorder). In this case, the body essentially rips through it's stores of T and possibly of DHEA.

    Some very interesting finds today, just from wanting a new pair of eyeglasses! This doctor in Brooklyn was great, very thorough. I told him also about my pituitary microadenoma and he is going to do some field of vision tests to ensure there is no problems with the optic nerve, but he told me to see the rheumatologist, gave me a referal, and told me to get my hormones in order because these issues are all likely intertwined.... I was like "yes! finally a good doctor who understands things!" all other doctors I have been seeing have just wanted to prescribe anti-depressants and cialis and never wanted to get to the root of things, or didn't know how to...and didn't think about other possible issues or testing...

    Anyhow, just wondering if anyone here has had treatment for an autoimmune disorder and thus had their hormones naturally balance out?? Am I right in my hypothesis about hormone pathways being diverted to treat the AI disorder? I don't know for sure if I have one, but I have a feeling as it runs in the family...but it would be nice if this can all be treated and things can be balanced out naturally!
    Last edited by Gutterpump; 11-20-2008 at 05:31 PM.

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    Just thought I would give an update in here.

    So it turns out that I possibly have Sjogrens...

    Waiting on bloodwork. But, it appears that sjogrens is a major cause for CFS, and lethargy. If this is the case, it's likely (I am assuming, as well my doctor is assuming) this is what has caused me to have low-normal T, and it's not really treatable. You can only treat the symptoms of sjogrens (dry eyes, mouth, etc)...and then I guess I will remain on TRT.

    Sjögren's syndrome is an autoimmune disease in which the body's immune system mistakenly attacks its own moisture producing glands. Sjögren's is one of the most prevalent autoimmune disorders, striking as many as 4,000,000 Americans. Nine out of ten patients are women. The average age of onset is late 40s although Sjögren's occurs in all age groups in both women and men.

    My mother has Sjogrens as well so it's likely this is what I have. I still don't know the full effects this can have on my system. I read it can impair my organs as well, such as my kidneys and liver. > Sjögren's may also cause dryness of other organs, affecting the kidneys, GI tract, blood vessels, lung, liver, pancreas, and the central nervous system


    Maybe I should ease off the AI and drink 5 gallons of water per day :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Just thought I would give an update in here.

    So it turns out that I possibly have Sjogrens...

    Waiting on bloodwork. But, it appears that sjogrens is a major cause for CFS, and lethargy. If this is the case, it's likely (I am assuming, as well my doctor is assuming) this is what has caused me to have low-normal T, and it's not really treatable. You can only treat the symptoms of sjogrens (dry eyes, mouth, etc)...and then I guess I will remain on TRT.

    Sjögren's syndrome is an autoimmune disease in which the body's immune system mistakenly attacks its own moisture producing glands. Sjögren's is one of the most prevalent autoimmune disorders, striking as many as 4,000,000 Americans. Nine out of ten patients are women. The average age of onset is late 40s although Sjögren's occurs in all age groups in both women and men.

    My mother has Sjogrens as well so it's likely this is what I have. I still don't know the full effects this can have on my system. I read it can impair my organs as well, such as my kidneys and liver. > Sjögren's may also cause dryness of other organs, affecting the kidneys, GI tract, blood vessels, lung, liver, pancreas, and the central nervous system


    Maybe I should ease off the AI and drink 5 gallons of water per day :P
    Sorry to hear about this GP, though hopefully it clarifies your issues and you can hone your program to minimize symptoms and optimize other things.

    What was the lab test you took? I took an auto-immune panel, and am wondering if I was tested.
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    Waiting on the appointment with the rheumatologist still...they all seem to be booked fairly solid here, but my doctor thinks it's highly probable that I have a CTD and it makes sense to me.

    I still have to get tested for sleep apnea, I lost my referal for this...getting a new one next week. Something else I may likely have.

    Here are the different tests you can do for Sjögren's/ CTD's:

    The Sjgren's Syndrome Foundation | About Sjgren's Syndrome | Diagnosis

    ANA (Anti-Nuclear Antibody)
    ANAs are a group of antibodies that react against normal components of a cell nucleus. About 70% of Sjögren's patients have a positive ANA test result.


    SSA and SSB
    The antibodies SSA (or RO) and SSB (or LA) are often found in Sjögren's syndrome; 70% of patients are positive for SSA and 40% are positive for SSB.


    RF (Rheumatoid Factor)
    This antibody test is indicative of a rheumatic disease. In Sjögren's patients, 60-70% have a positive RF.


    ESR (Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate)
    This test measures inflammation. An elevated ESR can indicate an inflammatory disorder, including Sjögren's syndrome.


    IGs (Immunoglobulins)
    These are normal blood proteins. They are usually elevated in Sjögren's.

    I am also getting tested for Celiacs to rule that out as well.
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    I just got the tests done yesterday...guess I find out the results in a week. If my mother has Sjögren's and father has MS, chances are something is fukked up with my immune system.
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    http://www.evenbetternow.com/autoimm...hashimotos.asp



    These supplements are supposed to be good for autoimmune disease.
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    Thanks for the link, I'll have to look into that.

    I got myself a small amount of modafinil to help on the days where I am feeling really lethargic. Well I guess now I have something new to test for.

    Yesterday I tried 200mg and had no noticable effect, so I took 400mg this morning and I have felt completely wiped out all day. Did the opposite of what I had expected. I guess my adrenals are worse than I had thought. Not only do I feel worn out now today, but my cognition is about 1 on a scale of 10.

    I gotta test adrenals and have a sleep study done asap, but don't have the time to do till after the holidays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Thanks for the link, I'll have to look into that.

    I got myself a small amount of modafinil to help on the days where I am feeling really lethargic. Well I guess now I have something new to test for.

    Yesterday I tried 200mg and had no noticable effect, so I took 400mg this morning and I have felt completely wiped out all day. Did the opposite of what I had expected. I guess my adrenals are worse than I had thought. Not only do I feel worn out now today, but my cognition is about 1 on a scale of 10.

    I gotta test adrenals and have a sleep study done asap, but don't have the time to do till after the holidays.
    You probably have a severely FU Up methylation cycle that could be affecting you immune system as a side effect of your biochemical imbalance. When dealing at MS I am very familar, My brother has it..Also too it is found people that have immune issues with low adrenals could come from possible elevated nitric oxide which also as i stated 1,000 times before clogs up the methylation cycle. This can literally effect all your brain and hormone receptors resulting in severe pain and CFS symtpoms. If you take nitric oxide supplements I would STOP and if you are taking fish oils you may be doing more damage then good. Since your biochemistry seems to be more towards possible high nitric oxide it can cause you body to not burn EPA and DHA. These build up causing abnormal levels of omega 6.. Again people bioindividality plays a huge part in this. People preach fish oils but in many cases they could be diasterous depending on alot of variables.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I don't take much fish oil at all, not everyday, but when I do it doesn't seem to have an effect on the way I feel. Should I stop any fishoil supplementation? I don't really eat fish, that's why I've been taking a spoonful here and there.

    I'm not taking anything for nitric oxide. Taking very little if any supplements at the moment.

    RE: Methylation.. I have a bottle of SAMe at home, should I start taking this again? And maybe some liv52 (liver support).. I guess it could help until I can look deeper into this.
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    Betain HCL + Choline are two other supps that I typically use on a normal basis. These also help support methionine, but I haven't noticed any real changes since taking them..maybe it hasn't been long enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Betain HCL + Choline are two other supps that I typically use on a normal basis. These also help support methionine, but I haven't noticed any real changes since taking them..maybe it hasn't been long enough.
    Phosphodytail choline 98% helps to rebuild liver and also cell membranes and open up detoxifcation pathway. methyl b-12 and folonic acid may help to with your methyaltion balancing .
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Ashwagandha is pretty powerful at rejuvenating the adrenals, stack it with some damiana if you want. Google epsom salt baths too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Phosphodytail choline 98% helps to rebuild liver and also cell membranes and open up detoxifcation pathway. methyl b-12 and folonic acid may help to with your methyaltion balancing .

    I occassionally take phosphatidylserine, a pretty hefty dose (800mg - 1200mg pd) I haven't been taking it for a while now though. I take choline citrate often (1600mg - up to 3 grams per day)...and occassionally take phosphatidyl choline from lecithin. I don't take lecithin often anymore though.

    I will look into methyl b-12 shots and folonic acid.
    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOTSPEED View Post
    Ashwagandha is pretty powerful at rejuvenating the adrenals, stack it with some damiana if you want. Google epsom salt baths too.

    Yeah I take ashwagandha daily. Damiana I haven't heard of. Schizandra was something I used to take a lot. To be honest, none of it impacts the way I feel.

    I really am needing a sleep study soon. That and a 24 hr cortisol test. If supplements aren't helping, then something else is at play preventing any external support from doing any good. Sleep apnea would make sense in my case but it's just a wild guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Yeah I take ashwagandha daily. Damiana I haven't heard of. Schizandra was something I used to take a lot. To be honest, none of it impacts the way I feel.

    I really am needing a sleep study soon. That and a 24 hr cortisol test. If supplements aren't helping, then something else is at play preventing any external support from doing any good. Sleep apnea would make sense in my case but it's just a wild guess.
    Sleep and chronic pain will muck every thing up, particularly the hormonal and autonomic systems. Huge stressors.

    Sleep is my achilles heal. I often wonder what it must be like to wake up, day after day, feeling entirely restored. That would be heaven for me.

    I happen to have severe apnea. Haven't found a way to successfully treat it yet. CPAP was not my friend.

    TRT can severely exacerbate apnea. Strange but definitely true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Yeah I take ashwagandha daily. Damiana I haven't heard of. Schizandra was something I used to take a lot. To be honest, none of it impacts the way I feel.

    I really am needing a sleep study soon. That and a 24 hr cortisol test. If supplements aren't helping, then something else is at play preventing any external support from doing any good. Sleep apnea would make sense in my case but it's just a wild guess.
    This is some real bitch azz **** going on im trying to send this guy a link to an article that will help him but they wont let me post it, when i try to pm him they say i dont have enough posts **** this forum.
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    I think you need 10 or 20 posts. You can spam this thread if you want with empty posts to up your post count hehe..

    Well I am getting some bloodwork back today, should give some indicators if there is some sort of CTD or sjogrens involved.

    Other than that, it's off to Amsterdam for me tomorrow!!

    Libido is good and strong now but that's because I'm doing higher than TRT doses for the time being ;-) just a temporary thing. Gotta get things properly sorted in the new yr.

    I've also dropped the divanyl (because I don't want to lower DHT) and opted for some daily high-dosed 98% trans-resveratrol + quercetin, and dropped my AI completely. Morning wood is UP UP and wood quality is great at anytime, as is random wood. The random wood is more of an indicator of libido for me, that and the constant hunger for the lovin..My energy levels are still sh!t though. The main thing to address when I get back from my vacation. Thyroid is fine, so I know it has to be adrenals most likely (or apnea).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I think you need 10 or 20 posts. You can spam this thread if you want with empty posts to up your post count hehe..

    Well I am getting some bloodwork back today, should give some indicators if there is some sort of CTD or sjogrens involved.

    Other than that, it's off to Amsterdam for me tomorrow!!

    Libido is good and strong now but that's because I'm doing higher than TRT doses for the time being ;-) just a temporary thing. Gotta get things properly sorted in the new yr.

    I've also dropped the divanyl (because I don't want to lower DHT) and opted for some daily high-dosed 98% trans-resveratrol + quercetin, and dropped my AI completely. Morning wood is UP UP and wood quality is great at anytime, as is random wood. The random wood is more of an indicator of libido for me, that and the constant hunger for the lovin..My energy levels are still sh!t though. The main thing to address when I get back from my vacation. Thyroid is fine, so I know it has to be adrenals most likely (or apnea).
    Did the divanyl actually lower your DHT ? Through serums reports if it did that is great news.
    If you feel like crap and e2, dht, testosterone is incheck then you need to look to adrenals..I have seen this time and time again..Low adrenals could treigger an autoimmune response as well or vice versa
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I think you need 10 or 20 posts. You can spam this thread if you want with empty posts to up your post count hehe..

    Well I am getting some bloodwork back today, should give some indicators if there is some sort of CTD or sjogrens involved.

    Other than that, it's off to Amsterdam for me tomorrow!!

    Libido is good and strong now but that's because I'm doing higher than TRT doses for the time being ;-) just a temporary thing. Gotta get things properly sorted in the new yr.

    I've also dropped the divanyl (because I don't want to lower DHT) and opted for some daily high-dosed 98% trans-resveratrol + quercetin, and dropped my AI completely. Morning wood is UP UP and wood quality is great at anytime, as is random wood. The random wood is more of an indicator of libido for me, that and the constant hunger for the lovin..My energy levels are still sh!t though. The main thing to address when I get back from my vacation. Thyroid is fine, so I know it has to be adrenals most likely (or apnea).
    I thought divanyl (nettle root) increased free T, and, in turn, increased DHT. Is there any evidence that it increases free T, but drops DHT. This seems unlikely, but maybe I am out to lunch.

    And Shawn, how is this good?
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    I read that nettle root will block DHT but does raise free T. Now I'm reading that it only blocks DHT at certain receptors (prostate + hair), but overall causes an INCREASE in serum DHT and causes a raise in androgenic activity.

    In that case, I will add the divanex back @ 3 caps pd now. I want to increase my DHT as much as possible. Androgens effect my libido the most. I don't have bloodwork for my current DHT levels though, but once I do I will think about going on gels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Did the divanyl actually lower your DHT ? Through serums reports if it did that is great news.
    If you feel like crap and e2, dht, testosterone is incheck then you need to look to adrenals..I have seen this time and time again..Low adrenals could treigger an autoimmune response as well or vice versa
    Thank, yeah that makes sense. I have to look into adrenals as soon as I'm back from my trip, and I need some other new bloodwork done.
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    Gutterpump I want you to google
    "magnesium george"
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    I take some great magnesium supplements. I use Poseidon and I take magnesium in the form of krebs cycle intermediates (most bioavailable form).

    Although, maybe I am still magnesium deficient since I get a lot of muscle cramping in my legs at times..mostly in calves. I think this is a sign of magnesium deficiency. Only way to know is to be tested for it though.

    Test results are in, doesn't look like any sort of connective tissue disorder or an immune disorder at all. I tested negative for sjogrens, lupus, etc etc, we did a broad array of tests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I take some great magnesium supplements. I use Poseidon and I take magnesium in the form of krebs cycle intermediates (most bioavailable form).

    Although, maybe I am still magnesium defficient since I get a lot of muscle cramping in my legs at times..mostly in calves. I think this is a sign of magnesium defficiency. Only way to know is to be tested for it though.

    Test results are in, doesn't look like any sort of connective tissue disorder or an immune disorder at all. I tested negative for sjogrens, lupus, etc etc, we did a broad array of tests.
    GP, you never cease to impress me. Someone mentions something, and by George, you know about it and you've tried it. ; ) You'll find the key(s) one of these days, I have no doubt.
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    Thanks...I think if I treat everything, something should work. So far I've only really looked at the direct sex hormones.

    Adrenals are #1 for me to treat I think... and I need to do a mineral analysis and see where my deficiencies lay. I think treating adrenals and any deficiencies should bring me to where I wouldn't need TRT, but it might be too late for that now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I take some great magnesium supplements. I use Poseidon and I take magnesium in the form of krebs cycle intermediates (most bioavailable form).

    Although, maybe I am still magnesium deficient since I get a lot of muscle cramping in my legs at times..mostly in calves. I think this is a sign of magnesium deficiency. Only way to know is to be tested for it though.

    Test results are in, doesn't look like any sort of connective tissue disorder or an immune disorder at all. I tested negative for sjogrens, lupus, etc etc, we did a broad array of tests.
    What about candida, leaky gut?

    BTW Magnesium is BEST ABSORBED TRANSDERMALLY, in other words, epsom salt baths. Seriously go to wal mart buy some epsom salts and pour some in a warm bath.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOTSPEED View Post
    What about candida, leaky gut?

    BTW Magnesium is BEST ABSORBED TRANSDERMALLY, in other words, epsom salt baths. Seriously go to wal mart buy some epsom salts and pour some in a warm bath.
    A male 'roid board, and you are advocating epsom salt baths, classic. I wish I liked baths, as I agree with you. I should just suck it up. They make me hot and itchy. i dont like sweating while bathing.
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    Ok, I am giving the magnesium baths (epsom salts) a full go now. Started taking them every few days or so.

    Also, I ordered 2 bottles of Isocort. Anyone see a problem taking Isocort with the herbs I mentioned before? Ashwagandha / Schizandra / Rhodiola where the ones I was about to start again.

    I've dropped T shots for the past 2 weeks now, been only shooting HCG and taking arimidex 1mg per week. Adding in Isocort this week (tapering up slowly to 8 pellets) and adding in Ashwagandha / Schizandra / Rhodiola. Doing this until end of February and getting new bloodwork. I think I will see a big difference. I am certain my adrenals are fried...ordering a urine test to prove this, but I don't need it to know..the symptoms are all there, even after I had started TRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Phosphodytail choline 98% helps to rebuild liver and also cell membranes and open up detoxifcation pathway. methyl b-12 and folonic acid may help to with your methyaltion balancing .
    Trimethlyglycine (TMG), Folic Acid, and Vitamin B-12.
    Product Educator | USPowders
    Statements made by this online persona are the sole property of the owner, and do not necessarily reflect USPowders’ opinion as a whole.
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    Thanks, will look into those as well. I think I will start taking methyl b-12 shots too as well as SAMe/liv52/milk thistle.

    The dry eyes / skin / muscle cramping makes sense now after reading up a lot on adrenal fatigue.. I must have been living with low adrenal function for more than 10 yrs now. Since my early years of college and I have not given myself much of a break. Crazy...and stupid.
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    I still have no doubt that it's a multi-faceted issue though...with adrenals being the worst problem.

    Think I'm going to take a trip to see HAN / Overbeck in February to sort things out.

    For now I will follow the advice in this thread, focusing on adrenals, liver, methylation, candida (GI/gut issues), nutrition + mineral balances / electrolyte balancing, and also double dose on my enzymes plus take as much betain hcl as I can handle. I fear that my adrenals have been over-taxed for so long that it will not be possible to recover full function of them... we'll see if the isocort will help (I'm sure it will)
    Last edited by Gutterpump; 01-07-2009 at 06:16 PM.
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    There is a reason you have all these symptoms. Sounds like Mercury poisoning. Get yourself checked for it. I'm going through many of the same symptoms that you have. My doctor is waiting for test results to come back but is 80% sure it IS Mercury poisoning. Get yourself checked for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROB968323 View Post
    There is a reason you have all these symptoms. Sounds like Mercury poisoning. Get yourself checked for it. I'm going through many of the same symptoms that you have. My doctor is waiting for test results to come back but is 80% sure it IS Mercury poisoning. Get yourself checked for that.


    Check out LDN to help with autoimmiune disorders ...
    Low dosage naltrexone ..helps out a great deal
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Guys, don't do steroids from the street. Mercury is one of the cheapest preservative for injections. It turnes out that many bodybuilder suffer under a mercury poison. Reason?... Cheap injections from the street with mercury.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aisstea View Post
    Guys, don't do steroids from the street. Mercury is one of the cheapest preservative for injections. It turnes out that many bodybuilder suffer under a mercury poison. Reason?... Cheap injections from the street with mercury.
    Mercutry is only used in water bases such as suspension and winstrol if it is used not oil bases.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    I've never used anything from the street. I used test once with TRT dosing, it was legit product, Indian Pharma made.

    I don't know if I have mercury poisoning, I will test for it, but that seems like I would be suffering more severely if it were true.

    The only auto immune symptoms I have are dry skin, dry eyes, lower back pain since I was a teenager. I tested negative for any auto immune disease though, my GP and I did about $1000 worth of tests...stupid insurance company also nailed me for about half the bill.

    edit: going to do my sleep study first and foremost. This is where I know I have problems, as well as sluggish adrenals. They are the obvious issues.

    Not quite sure the best way to test for heavy metals. I read that most tests are inconclusive, hair is not good for testing mercury and other tests can show little to no mercury even if the individual has had mercury exposure.
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    Mercury poison can build up from metal dental fillings. Just thought I would run the idea of Mercury past you...it's worth a shot.
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    Thanks, I will test to be sure, seems plausible although I have no mercury fillings.

    I did grow up in a large mining community though. Gold, copper and zinc were the main metals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Thanks, I will test to be sure, seems plausible although I have no mercury fillings.

    I did grow up in a large mining community though. Gold, copper and zinc were the main metals.
    Check water for copper levels..You could be exposed to excessive copper which can cause autoiumme diseases as well or make them even worse.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I've never used anything from the street. I used test once with TRT dosing, it was legit product, Indian Pharma made.

    I don't know if I have mercury poisoning, I will test for it, but that seems like I would be suffering more severely if it were true.

    The only auto immune symptoms I have are dry skin, dry eyes, lower back pain since I was a teenager. I tested negative for any auto immune disease though, my GP and I did about $1000 worth of tests...stupid insurance company also nailed me for about half the bill.

    edit: going to do my sleep study first and foremost. This is where I know I have problems, as well as sluggish adrenals. They are the obvious issues.

    Not quite sure the best way to test for heavy metals. I read that most tests are inconclusive, hair is not good for testing mercury and other tests can show little to no mercury even if the individual has had mercury exposure.

    I was tested positive for ankylosing spondylitis. I had hip problems since i was a kid and then later my knees were getting swollen along with lower back pain. It might be something to look into since your getting the back pain ( its inflammation of the spine ) .
  

  
 

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