Lab results -- help needed raising bio-test. - AnabolicMinds.com

Lab results -- help needed raising bio-test.

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    Lab results -- help needed raising bio-test.


    I've been putting this off for a while, and have finally turned to it. I've already made some adjustments, but could use some guidance/feedback, particularly from Jan (the number cruncher):

    Blood was drawn at trough (3 days after hCG injection @ 1k IUs E3Ds, and liquidex at .375 mgs E3Ds):

    TT 1217 (250 - 1100)
    FT 187.6 (46 - 224)
    Bio T 376.9 (110-575)
    SHBG 37 (8-48)
    Albumin 4.4 (3.6 - 5.1)
    E2 75 (13 - 54)

    Since receiving these results, I have dropped the hCG back to 900 IUs (since TT is not an issue, and to reduce E2) and increased liquidex to .45mgs (to reduce E2) E3Ds. I have noticed some reduction in morning wood and libido, but the bloating has reduced markedly. I may need to back off the liquidex a little, though it would seem that .45 mgs is necessary. I assume that the 10% reduction in hCG will also reduce E2. I assume that the reduced E2 will result in increased bio and free T. My bio T could stand to be a little higher. Incidentally, I've noticed that I have been thinning a bit at the crown, which I assume is from high DHT. I take zinc and a prostate formula that includes saw palmetto, among other things. And I shampoo with nizoral and use rogaine.

    I realize it's difficult to offer any feedback guidance as my protocol is quite different than most on the board. But I'm sure Jan has something to offer up.

    Thanks in advance.

    My best,
    J

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    I've been putting this off for a while, and have finally turned to it. I've already made some adjustments, but could use some guidance/feedback, particularly from Jan (the number cruncher):

    Blood was drawn at trough (3 days after hCG injection @ 1k IUs E3Ds, and liquidex at .375 mgs E3Ds):

    TT 1217 (250 - 1100)
    FT 187.6 (46 - 224)
    Bio T 376.9 (110-575)
    SHBG 37 (8-48)
    Albumin 4.4 (3.6 - 5.1)
    E2 75 (13 - 54)

    Since receiving these results, I have dropped the hCG back to 900 IUs (since TT is not an issue, and to reduce E2) and increased liquidex to .45mgs (to reduce E2) E3Ds. I have noticed some reduction in morning wood and libido, but the bloating has reduced markedly. I may need to back off the liquidex a little, though it would seem that .45 mgs is necessary. I assume that the 10% reduction in hCG will also reduce E2. I assume that the reduced E2 will result in increased bio and free T. My bio T could stand to be a little higher. Incidentally, I've noticed that I have been thinning a bit at the crown, which I assume is from high DHT. I take zinc and a prostate formula that includes saw palmetto, among other things. And I shampoo with nizoral and use rogaine.

    I realize it's difficult to offer any feedback guidance as my protocol is quite different than most on the board. But I'm sure Jan has something to offer up.

    Thanks in advance.

    My best,
    J
    You did not say where you did the testing.
    If you did it at Quest and you did this test:
    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
    then it takes precedence.

    I have made and attached a chart for you, since the calculator is always a suspect and chart is the only "sure" thing (I hope).

    Per chart, your previous TT levels (1217) were the best that you should have, considering your SHBG levels.

    At TT=900 you should still have respectable FreeT~200

    Now you have to work on your DHT and E2 levels.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    What is your DHT level?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Jan, you rock.

    I did not test DHT this last go around. Last go around, it was about 10% over range, and my TT and FT numbers were very similar. Because my hair has started to thin at the crown (a recent phenomenon), I don't want to push things on that end.

    My results, listed above, were with Quest -- the test TT/FT/BioT test you recommend. E2 was 75. Too high, I know. Same goes for the SHBG of 37.

    Here's what I decided to do today:

    1) Drop the hCG further to 800 IUs E3Ds. With a trough TT over 1200, it would appear that my issue is not on the T end, but on the aromatisation end (as well as the high SHBG), as you intimated. Dropping my hCG dose from 1500 IUs E3Ds to 1000 IUs, barely put a dent in my trough TT level -- it went down about 100 from around 1300 to 1200. (I obviously respond strongly to hCG.) I would imagine my trough T will still be over 1000 with the further 11% reduction in my hCG dose.

    2) I pulled back on the liquidex to .375 mg E3Ds, the same level I was taking when taking 1000 IUs of hCG E3Ds (I am now taking 20% less than that -- 800 IUs).

    Can anyone recommend anything that I can do to lower the SHBG? If I can get that number down by 20%, I think I will be just where I want to be on the free T level.

    Incidentally, my thyroid numbers were PERFECT. As good as I've ever seen. TSH of 1.03, and free T3 and T4 in the upper quartile. I'm not even taking any scripts for my thyroid, and these numbers are far better than they have ever been. Crazy. Maybe it has something to do with the E2 and SHBG. I think I recall HAN/Matrix mentioning something about how one of these can affect thyroid function.

    Thanks for all your help. You're a real dude.

    J

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Jan, you rock.

    I did not test DHT this last go around. Last go around, it was about 10% over range, and my TT and FT numbers were very similar. Because my hair has started to thin at the crown (a recent phenomenon), I don't want to push things on that end.

    My results, listed above, were with Quest -- the test TT/FT/BioT test you recommend. E2 was 75. Too high, I know. Same goes for the SHBG of 37.

    Here's what I decided to do today:

    1) Drop the hCG further to 800 IUs E3Ds. With a trough TT over 1200, it would appear that my issue is not on the T end, but on the aromatisation end (as well as the high SHBG), as you intimated. Dropping my hCG dose from 1500 IUs E3Ds to 1000 IUs, barely put a dent in my trough TT level -- it went down about 100 from around 1300 to 1200. (I obviously respond strongly to hCG.) I would imagine my trough T will still be over 1000 with the further 11% reduction in my hCG dose.

    2) I pulled back on the liquidex to .375 mg E3Ds, the same level I was taking when taking 1000 IUs of hCG E3Ds (I am now taking 20% less than that -- 800 IUs).

    Can anyone recommend anything that I can do to lower the SHBG? If I can get that number down by 20%, I think I will be just where I want to be on the free T level.

    Incidentally, my thyroid numbers were PERFECT. As good as I've ever seen. TSH of 1.03, and free T3 and T4 in the upper quartile. I'm not even taking any scripts for my thyroid, and these numbers are far better than they have ever been. Crazy. Maybe it has something to do with the E2 and SHBG. I think I recall HAN/Matrix mentioning something about how one of these can affect thyroid function.

    Thanks for all your help. You're a real dude.

    J
    Looks like stinging nettles is one thing that may help. Any other herbs that are thoroughly researched?

    And what about Danazol? Come in a research form?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    I've been putting this off for a while, and have finally turned to it. I've already made some adjustments, but could use some guidance/feedback, particularly from Jan (the number cruncher):

    Blood was drawn at trough (3 days after hCG injection @ 1k IUs E3Ds, and liquidex at .375 mgs E3Ds):

    TT 1217 (250 - 1100)
    FT 187.6 (46 - 224)
    Bio T 376.9 (110-575)
    SHBG 37 (8-48)
    Albumin 4.4 (3.6 - 5.1)
    E2 75 (13 - 54)

    Since receiving these results, I have dropped the hCG back to 900 IUs (since TT is not an issue, and to reduce E2) and increased liquidex to .45mgs (to reduce E2) E3Ds. I have noticed some reduction in morning wood and libido, but the bloating has reduced markedly. I may need to back off the liquidex a little, though it would seem that .45 mgs is necessary. I assume that the 10% reduction in hCG will also reduce E2. I assume that the reduced E2 will result in increased bio and free T. My bio T could stand to be a little higher. Incidentally, I've noticed that I have been thinning a bit at the crown, which I assume is from high DHT. I take zinc and a prostate formula that includes saw palmetto, among other things. And I shampoo with nizoral and use rogaine.

    I realize it's difficult to offer any feedback guidance as my protocol is quite different than most on the board. But I'm sure Jan has something to offer up.

    Thanks in advance.

    My best,
    J
    Whats the age ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    You did not say where you did the testing.
    If you did it at Quest and you did this test:
    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
    then it takes precedence.

    I have made and attached a chart for you, since the calculator is always a suspect and chart is the only "sure" thing (I hope).

    Per chart, your previous TT levels (1217) were the best that you should have, considering your SHBG levels.

    At TT=900 you should still have respectable FreeT~200

    Now you have to work on your DHT and E2 levels.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    What is your DHT level?
    Looking at the chart, I don't see it including 1217 as a "normal" level of testosterone ----> http://www.andropause.org.uk/nomo_tas.pdf

    knowing that the human body adapts its own SHBG according to its genetic hormonal needs, would it not be better to lower the patient's total T to keep it in the normal range??. If the body truely needs bio T to be in the 300 range, it will adjust its SHBG to reach that.. Why force things by injecting more testosterone just so you can reach your some number you call ideal in your head??? Can you really trick the body.. It will eventually raise its SHBG to meet homeostasis hence lowering your bio T.. What would do then?? inject more testosterone??
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    Looking at the chart, I don't see it including 1217 as a "normal" level of testosterone ----> http://www.andropause.org.uk/nomo_tas.pdf

    knowing that the human body adapts its own SHBG according to its genetic hormonal needs, would it not be better to lower the patient's total T to keep it in the normal range??. If the body truely needs bio T to be in the 300 range, it will adjust its SHBG to reach that.. Why force things by injecting more testosterone just so you can reach your some number you call ideal in your head??? Can you really trick the body.. It will eventually raise its SHBG to meet homeostasis hence lowering your bio T.. What would do then?? inject more testosterone??
    .
    Big Ak, dude, did you read the thread? I don't inject any test, and never contemplated injecting more (any) since getting my results. I've dropped my hCG levels twice since these results, as per the above posts. And I'm no numbers chaser, seeking a perfect 300, or something. All I said is that I'd like to raise the FT, by dropping SHBG and E2 -- NOT BY INCREASING TT!

    I appreciate what you are saying (about homeostasis and what not, and don't disagree with your general thesis in that regard) but you may want to read the thread before lecturing me, no offense. I know your intentions are good, but your post is a bit misguided. And 1215 TT not even being on the chart hardly means that it is some sort of pie in the sky number. I think you've been around here long enough to know that. It's about 10% over the reference range; hardly the numbers of some juicing freak. Enough said. Bygones brother.

    Trip, thanks for the reply. I'm 38. And dude, you've gotten hella ripped. Nice work! I've gotten quite a bit leaner, though now I need to get the muscle back after bilateral rotator cuff surgery and distal clavicular excision. I suppose there will be no more heavy upper body lifts anytime soon. At least I've evolved to men's push-ups -- no longer the laughing stock of the gym, doing girls' push-ups! Part of the reason I'd like to get the free T up is to help my recovery.

    Best,
    J

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Jan, you rock.

    I did not test DHT this last go around. Last go around, it was about 10% over range, and my TT and FT numbers were very similar. Because my hair has started to thin at the crown (a recent phenomenon), I don't want to push things on that end.

    My results, listed above, were with Quest -- the test TT/FT/BioT test you recommend. E2 was 75. Too high, I know. Same goes for the SHBG of 37.

    Here's what I decided to do today:

    1) Drop the hCG further to 800 IUs E3Ds. With a trough TT over 1200, it would appear that my issue is not on the T end, but on the aromatisation end (as well as the high SHBG), as you intimated. Dropping my hCG dose from 1500 IUs E3Ds to 1000 IUs, barely put a dent in my trough TT level -- it went down about 100 from around 1300 to 1200. (I obviously respond strongly to hCG.) I would imagine my trough T will still be over 1000 with the further 11% reduction in my hCG dose.

    2) I pulled back on the liquidex to .375 mg E3Ds, the same level I was taking when taking 1000 IUs of hCG E3Ds (I am now taking 20% less than that -- 800 IUs).

    Can anyone recommend anything that I can do to lower the SHBG? If I can get that number down by 20%, I think I will be just where I want to be on the free T level.

    Incidentally, my thyroid numbers were PERFECT. As good as I've ever seen. TSH of 1.03, and free T3 and T4 in the upper quartile. I'm not even taking any scripts for my thyroid, and these numbers are far better than they have ever been. Crazy. Maybe it has something to do with the E2 and SHBG. I think I recall HAN/Matrix mentioning something about how one of these can affect thyroid function.

    Thanks for all your help. You're a real dude.

    J
    Jinxie;
    Look at my post #62
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-...oodtest-3.html

    Per study quoted there:

    Study shown that:
    125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day

    Post treatment
    ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group,
    7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and
    26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group.
    ---
    So theorethically, one would need 306iu EOD to get 100% effect.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Since your testis appear to be rather sensitive and in good condition,
    think of those studies as your references.

    Remember also that if you keep your E2 within desirable range (20-30) that should also conserve your testosterone.


    When holding steady other variables,
    reducing E2 increases TT.

    You have a big reserve with your E2=75 presently.

    Wait with SHBG, it may adjust (down) on its own.
    Same with DHT.

    Be real carefull thinkig about danazol.
    That is (possibly) only for guys with SHBG twice of yours.
    Your SHBG is little high, but not overly, using danazol may screw you.

    .
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    I've been putting this off for a while, and have finally turned to it. I've already made some adjustments, but could use some guidance/feedback, particularly from Jan (the number cruncher):

    Blood was drawn at trough (3 days after hCG injection @ 1k IUs E3Ds, and liquidex at .375 mgs E3Ds):

    TT 1217 (250 - 1100)
    FT 187.6 (46 - 224)
    Bio T 376.9 (110-575)
    SHBG 37 (8-48)
    Albumin 4.4 (3.6 - 5.1)
    E2 75 (13 - 54)

    Since receiving these results, I have dropped the hCG back to 900 IUs (since TT is not an issue, and to reduce E2) and increased liquidex to .45mgs (to reduce E2) E3Ds. I have noticed some reduction in morning wood and libido, but the bloating has reduced markedly. I may need to back off the liquidex a little, though it would seem that .45 mgs is necessary. I assume that the 10% reduction in hCG will also reduce E2. I assume that the reduced E2 will result in increased bio and free T. My bio T could stand to be a little higher. Incidentally, I've noticed that I have been thinning a bit at the crown, which I assume is from high DHT. I take zinc and a prostate formula that includes saw palmetto, among other things. And I shampoo with nizoral and use rogaine.

    I realize it's difficult to offer any feedback guidance as my protocol is quite different than most on the board. But I'm sure Jan has something to offer up.

    Thanks in advance.

    My best,
    J
    Try 1 mg of liquidex on injection days. That would be slightly over two per week. It should get your E2 under control and raise bio and free test. I've done that much and it worked well for me. Later I reduced HCG to 1000 from 1500 and Liquidex to .5 on injection days. My E2 is 24, DHT - 78 , BAT - 415, Free T - 197, Total T - 945 and SHGB - 23.

    I don't know if those number are acceptable to most, but I feel pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Big Ak, dude, did you read the thread? I don't inject any test, and never contemplated injecting more (any) since getting my results. I've dropped my hCG levels twice since these results, as per the above posts. And I'm no numbers chaser, seeking a perfect 300, or something. All I said is that I'd like to raise the FT, by dropping SHBG and E2 -- NOT BY INCREASING FT!J
    Oh... jinxie... you missunderstood my post.. It was not directed to you or your situation at all.. It was directed to Jan; since he injects testosterone and his Total T is above the normal level on that chart. You were no where in my mind when I posted the above. The chart in general is what triggered my curiosity and I was posting in general terms, and not specific to your case.

    Sorry if I misslead you brother..
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    I appreciate what you are saying (about homeostasis and what not, and don't disagree with your general thesis in that regard) but you may want to read the thread before lecturing me, no offense. I know your intentions are good, but your post is a bit misguided. And 1215 TT not even being on the chart hardly means that it is some sort of pie in the sky number. I think you've been around here long enough to know that. It's about 10% over the reference range; hardly the numbers of some juicing freak. Enough said. Bygones brother.J
    No offense taken. Don't view my post as "lecturing" you. Again; you were no where on my mind when I posted. I was trying to spark up Jan's thoughts about the merit in injecting more testosterone in order to reach some pre-determined "ideal" number on some chart. We all know he does so and he promotes it. You are correct; there are a few number chasers around here... and I never implied you're one of them.

    BTW... I am very impressed with your body's ability to achieve such an impressive level of Testosterone merely from HCG... This is a true indication that your testes are in top shape... Is your original issue lies in LH production??; hence; your current protocol?? Sorry for the late questions as I never knew your particular situation.

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Try 1 mg of liquidex on injection days. That would be slightly over two per week. It should get your E2 under control and raise bio and free test. I've done that much and it worked well for me. Later I reduced HCG to 1000 from 1500 and Liquidex to .5 on injection days. My E2 is 24, DHT - 78 , BAT - 415, Free T - 197, Total T - 945 and SHGB - 23.

    I don't know if those number are acceptable to most, but I feel pretty good.
    Your E2 & DHT numbers are ideal, your BAT is probably better than 95% guys on these boards.

    Plus, your testosterone is your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Your E2 & DHT numbers are ideal, your BAT is probably better than 95% guys on these boards.

    Plus, your testosterone is your own.
    Thanks for your input. I see some lofty goals. I'm glad the numbers confirm the way I feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    No offense taken. Don't view my post as "lecturing" you. Again; you were no where on my mind when I posted. I was trying to spark up Jan's thoughts about the merit in injecting more testosterone in order to reach some pre-determined "ideal" number on some chart. We all know he does so and he promotes it. You are correct; there are a few number chasers around here... and I never implied you're one of them.

    BTW... I am very impressed with your body's ability to achieve such an impressive level of Testosterone merely from HCG... This is a true indication that your testes are in top shape... Is your original issue lies in LH production??; hence; your current protocol?? Sorry for the late questions as I never knew your particular situation.

    .
    I massage my nuts daily. It's the key!

    Seriously though, my LH was on the lowish side, but my FSH was in the gutter. As LH pulses, I have read FSH is more reliable, unless you do a 24 hr urine analysis. My TT quadrupled. And my FT pretty much did the same.

    Current protocol is above.

    And I now appreciate you were responding to Jan. I appreciate your concern about number chasing.

    Take care, bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Try 1 mg of liquidex on injection days. That would be slightly over two per week. It should get your E2 under control and raise bio and free test. I've done that much and it worked well for me. Later I reduced HCG to 1000 from 1500 and Liquidex to .5 on injection days. My E2 is 24, DHT - 78 , BAT - 415, Free T - 197, Total T - 945 and SHGB - 23.

    I don't know if those number are acceptable to most, but I feel pretty good.
    Thanks Colkurtz. I am reluctant to crank the liquidex to that level as my libido dropped when I increased to .5 mgs E3Ds. After dropping back to .375 mgs E3Ds, I got my morning wood back. So, for now, I think I will just stick with pulling the hCG back.

    If anyone can recommend how I may get the SBHG back, I would appreciate it. Anyone take stinging nettles, with positive results?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    I massage my nuts daily. It's the key!

    Seriously though, my LH was on the lowish side, but my FSH was in the gutter. As LH pulses, I have read FSH is more reliable, unless you do a 24 hr urine analysis. My TT quadrupled. And my FT pretty much did the same.

    Current protocol is above.

    And I now appreciate you were responding to Jan. I appreciate your concern about number chasing.

    Take care, bro.
    Hahaha... I should try that myself then; if it means I can have my levels like yours.... LOL...

    Do you think FSH plays a great role on increasing one's Testosterone?? meaning the higher the FSH, the higher the testosterone?? My impression is that FSH is only for semen production!!! Am I wrong??

    .

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Anyone take stinging nettles, with positive results?
    I just started nutraplanet's divanex @ 3-4 caps pd. I have low SHBG to begin with though (before TRT), but I think it shoots up for anyone when they start TRT so hopefully it should do me some good. Getting bloodwork end of this month.

    I think that's all you need to do is lower your SHBG and then you're golden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I just started nutraplanet's divanex @ 3-4 caps pd. I have low SHBG to begin with though (before TRT), but I think it shoots up for anyone when they start TRT so hopefully it should do me some good. Getting bloodwork end of this month.

    I think that's all you need to do is lower your SHBG and then you're golden.
    Thanks, I'll check it out. I went ahead and ordered a cheap bottle of nettle root extract. Worth $7. I'll just assess based on my injury recovery/muscle rebuild, as I don't plan to get blood work until early next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAk View Post
    Hahaha... I should try that myself then; if it means I can have my levels like yours.... LOL...

    Do you think FSH plays a great role on increasing one's Testosterone?? meaning the higher the FSH, the higher the testosterone?? My impression is that FSH is only for semen production!!! Am I wrong??

    .

    .
    BigAk, remember, I shoot 800 IUs of hCG E3Ds. I am secondary hypogonadal. So, I'll be shooting for life.

    As for FSH, I think you misunderstood me. Or I communicated unclearly. FSH is a thought to be a more reliable indicator of being secondary than LH, unless you do a 24-hour LH, since it pulses (you don't know whether you are catching at peak or trough or somewhere in between). But you are correct, FSH is tied to semen production, rather than Test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    Jan, you rock.

    I did not test DHT this last go around. Last go around, it was about 10% over range, and my TT and FT numbers were very similar. Because my hair has started to thin at the crown (a recent phenomenon), I don't want to push things on that end.

    My results, listed above, were with Quest -- the test TT/FT/BioT test you recommend. E2 was 75. Too high, I know. Same goes for the SHBG of 37.

    Here's what I decided to do today:

    1) Drop the hCG further to 800 IUs E3Ds. With a trough TT over 1200, it would appear that my issue is not on the T end, but on the aromatisation end (as well as the high SHBG), as you intimated. Dropping my hCG dose from 1500 IUs E3Ds to 1000 IUs, barely put a dent in my trough TT level -- it went down about 100 from around 1300 to 1200. (I obviously respond strongly to hCG.) I would imagine my trough T will still be over 1000 with the further 11% reduction in my hCG dose.

    2) I pulled back on the liquidex to .375 mg E3Ds, the same level I was taking when taking 1000 IUs of hCG E3Ds (I am now taking 20% less than that -- 800 IUs).

    Can anyone recommend anything that I can do to lower the SHBG? If I can get that number down by 20%, I think I will be just where I want to be on the free T level.

    Incidentally, my thyroid numbers were PERFECT. As good as I've ever seen. TSH of 1.03, and free T3 and T4 in the upper quartile. I'm not even taking any scripts for my thyroid, and these numbers are far better than they have ever been. Crazy. Maybe it has something to do with the E2 and SHBG. I think I recall HAN/Matrix mentioning something about how one of these can affect thyroid function.

    Thanks for all your help. You're a real dude.

    J
    It's interesting how we often overlook the obvious. I've been struggling to conquer my high E2 situation, to free up my high testosterone, and failed to reconsider increasing dosing frequency. I plan on injecting 500 IUs E2Ds, along with .20 mgs of arimidex. I think that should do it. (I am reducing the arimidex because of libido issues, as well as concern about my lipid profile.) I'm hopeful that freeing up some testosterone will hasten my recovery from my bilateral shoulder surgery. Sleeping is a real ***** when you have 2 bad shoulders.

    I think Crisler was on to something when he stated that hCG should not be taken in doses of greater than 500 IUs, when taken as part of HRT. Of course, there are always exceptions, such as Colkurtz, who has been able to conquer the E2 beast with relative ease, so it seems at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxie View Post
    It's interesting how we often overlook the obvious. I've been struggling to conquer my high E2 situation, to free up my high testosterone, and failed to reconsider increasing dosing frequency. I plan on injecting 500 IUs E2Ds, along with .20 mgs of arimidex. I think that should do it. (I am reducing the arimidex because of libido issues, as well as concern about my lipid profile.) I'm hopeful that freeing up some testosterone will hasten my recovery from my bilateral shoulder surgery. Sleeping is a real ***** when you have 2 bad shoulders.

    I think Crisler was on to something when he stated that hCG should not be taken in doses of greater than 500 IUs, when taken as part of HRT. Of course, there are always exceptions, such as Colkurtz, who has been able to conquer the E2 beast with relative ease, so it seems at least.
    I had bad luck when I increased the frequency of my shots to EOD - E2 shot up. I still think you'd be better served increasing your Liquidex until you get your E2 under control. I'm pretty sure that E2 levels, both low and high impact your libido, and not Arimidex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    I had bad luck when I increased the frequency of my shots to EOD - E2 shot up. I still think you'd be better served increasing your Liquidex until you get your E2 under control. I'm pretty sure that E2 levels, both low and high impact your libido, and not Arimidex.

    Hmmmm, I dont really understand how more frequent shots could cause greater E2 problems, as it should create more stability -- lower highs and higher lows. And I am dropping my overall dose, in any event.

    Did you keep the per diem dose the same, when you increased to EOD?

    I recognize that high E2 can cause libido problems. But after I dropped my dose back, morning wood returned in days. Additionally, my good cholesterol (HDLs) is in the crapper, and I know that arimidex contributes to that problem.

    Thanks for the feedback. I may reconsider after I hear more from you on this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I just started nutraplanet's divanex @ 3-4 caps pd. I have low SHBG to begin with though (before TRT), but I think it shoots up for anyone when they start TRT so hopefully it should do me some good. Getting bloodwork end of this month.

    I think that's all you need to do is lower your SHBG and then you're golden.
    Keep us posted on this

    I am starting to do research on myomin for estrogen maintence...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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    I haven't got updated bloodwork yet, but I can vouche for the stuff, it's working.

    Night wood that takes forever to go away if I wake up to piss (annoying, but hey - good sign)..and erections that are the equivalent to stacking cialis with viagara.. However, it still takes me a long time to finish during sex...this is what I want to work on..I don't want to have to focus so hard in order to finish..this is pretty annoying and frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I haven't got updated bloodwork yet, but I can vouche for the stuff, it's working.

    Night wood that takes forever to go away if I wake up to piss (annoying, but hey - good sign)..and erections that are the equivalent to stacking cialis with viagara.. However, it still takes me a long time to finish during sex...this is what I want to work on..I don't want to have to focus so hard in order to finish..this is pretty annoying and frustrating.
    YOur curse is some ones blessing in disguise.
    This is what I am hoping for as well feed back with clincal support. Lets see if that shbg does drop after 8 weeks. The question is can you stay on that or does it have to be cycled?
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I just started nutraplanet's divanex @ 3-4 caps pd. I have low SHBG to begin with though (before TRT), but I think it shoots up for anyone when they start TRT so hopefully it should do me some good. Getting bloodwork end of this month.

    I think that's all you need to do is lower your SHBG and then you're golden.
    Thanks for the tip. Looks WAY stronger than the extract I have. Did you buy it in bulk, or pill form?

    I'm interested in learning what else your are taking, and the results, if you'd like the share and have the time and inclination. You've named a number of things recently that have interested me for some time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I haven't got updated bloodwork yet, but I can vouche for the stuff, it's working.

    Night wood that takes forever to go away if I wake up to piss (annoying, but hey - good sign)..and erections that are the equivalent to stacking cialis with viagara.. However, it still takes me a long time to finish during sex...this is what I want to work on..I don't want to have to focus so hard in order to finish..this is pretty annoying and frustrating.
    try l-histadine. twinlab is the one i have.

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    I am using Nutraplanet's capped stinging nettle (95%). It's the same as their bulk stuff.

    I also have bulk l-histadine, I need to cap that stuff up and give it a shot. I have to research doses for it still. Hopefully it works well...there's a few nice uses for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I am using Nutraplanet's capped stinging nettle (95%). It's the same as their bulk stuff.

    I also have bulk l-histadine, I need to cap that stuff up and give it a shot. I have to research doses for it still. Hopefully it works well...there's a few nice uses for it.
    change one varaible at a time ...
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.

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