Does anyone live and function with a low testosterone

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    Does anyone live and function with a low testosterone


    Is it possible, I think it might be worse for me because I had a high testosterone then I woke up after a problem and it was gone

    Is it possible to live and function with a low testosterone

    And my testosterone isnt low according to clinical standards(414 last check in August) but like I said I know I had a very high testosterone and I woke up and it was gone

    I also put alot of stock into my attraction to women and how I was looking forward to getting a girlfriend after going my whole life with pretty much nothing and I wake up and it is gone

    Is it possible to adjust to this? this is truly a hell, as they say a mans brain is in his balls and that is entirely true, god damn I wish I had my testosterone back, I would rather lose a ****ing limb then go through this crap


    Does anyone go through life with a lower then normal testosterone and you are under 40 years old

    I dont understand how men in the past used to cut their balls off to either get a job(like men in China who use to cut off their nuts to get a job at the kingdom) or some religious people would cut their nuts off so they werent attracted to prosititues

    A mans whole purpose is to reproduce or at least have the ability to reproduce, what the **** is the point in living if that is gone, should I look forward to eating

    Also it might be worse because I really have not much else going in my life for example I am short, dont have a good job, probably not to attractive, but I always felt my love of women and my passion of them would be enough to get me girls and now its ****ing gone, what the **** am I supposed to to

    And I know people have it worse then me like people who dont have function of their dicks anymore so I should probably shut up in that regard

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    What about the people that got castrated in biblical times for punishment? They lived..
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1212 View Post
    Is it possible, I think it might be worse for me because I had a high testosterone then I woke up after a problem and it was gone

    Is it possible to live and function with a low testosterone

    And my testosterone isnt low according to clinical standards(414 last check in August) but like I said I know I had a very high testosterone and I woke up and it was gone

    I also put alot of stock into my attraction to women and how I was looking forward to getting a girlfriend after going my whole life with pretty much nothing and I wake up and it is gone

    Is it possible to adjust to this? this is truly a hell, as they say a mans brain is in his balls and that is entirely true, god damn I wish I had my testosterone back, I would rather lose a ****ing limb then go through this crap


    Does anyone go through life with a lower then normal testosterone and you are under 40 years old

    I dont understand how men in the past used to cut their balls off to either get a job(like men in China who use to cut off their nuts to get a job at the kingdom) or some religious people would cut their nuts off so they werent attracted to prosititues

    A mans whole purpose is to reproduce or at least have the ability to reproduce, what the **** is the point in living if that is gone, should I look forward to eating

    Also it might be worse because I really have not much else going in my life for example I am short, dont have a good job, probably not to attractive, but I always felt my love of women and my passion of them would be enough to get me girls and now its ****ing gone, what the **** am I supposed to to

    And I know people have it worse then me like people who dont have function of their dicks anymore so I should probably shut up in that regard

    Where do you live currently? first thing is be calm and not worry much, Your testosterone level is ok to function normally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1212 View Post
    Is it possible, I think it might be worse for me because I had a high testosterone then I woke up after a problem and it was gone

    Is it possible to live and function with a low testosterone

    And my testosterone isnt low according to clinical standards(414 last check in August) but like I said I know I had a very high testosterone and I woke up and it was gone

    I also put alot of stock into my attraction to women and how I was looking forward to getting a girlfriend after going my whole life with pretty much nothing and I wake up and it is gone

    Is it possible to adjust to this? this is truly a hell, as they say a mans brain is in his balls and that is entirely true, god damn I wish I had my testosterone back, I would rather lose a ****ing limb then go through this crap


    Does anyone go through life with a lower then normal testosterone and you are under 40 years old

    I dont understand how men in the past used to cut their balls off to either get a job(like men in China who use to cut off their nuts to get a job at the kingdom) or some religious people would cut their nuts off so they werent attracted to prosititues

    A mans whole purpose is to reproduce or at least have the ability to reproduce, what the **** is the point in living if that is gone, should I look forward to eating

    Also it might be worse because I really have not much else going in my life for example I am short, dont have a good job, probably not to attractive, but I always felt my love of women and my passion of them would be enough to get me girls and now its ****ing gone, what the **** am I supposed to to

    And I know people have it worse then me like people who dont have function of their dicks anymore so I should probably shut up in that regard
    Do you want to have philosophical chat
    or
    you would like to correct your situation?
    ------------------------------------------------------
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    a natural level of 414 is perfectly normal. the majority of men are around the 400 number
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1212 View Post
    Is it possible, I think it might be worse for me because I had a high testosterone then I woke up after a problem and it was gone

    Is it possible to live and function with a low testosterone

    And my testosterone isnt low according to clinical standards(414 last check in August) but like I said I know I had a very high testosterone and I woke up and it was gone

    I also put alot of stock into my attraction to women and how I was looking forward to getting a girlfriend after going my whole life with pretty much nothing and I wake up and it is gone

    Is it possible to adjust to this? this is truly a hell, as they say a mans brain is in his balls and that is entirely true, god damn I wish I had my testosterone back, I would rather lose a ****ing limb then go through this crap


    Does anyone go through life with a lower then normal testosterone and you are under 40 years old

    I dont understand how men in the past used to cut their balls off to either get a job(like men in China who use to cut off their nuts to get a job at the kingdom) or some religious people would cut their nuts off so they werent attracted to prosititues

    A mans whole purpose is to reproduce or at least have the ability to reproduce, what the **** is the point in living if that is gone, should I look forward to eating

    Also it might be worse because I really have not much else going in my life for example I am short, dont have a good job, probably not to attractive, but I always felt my love of women and my passion of them would be enough to get me girls and now its ****ing gone, what the **** am I supposed to to

    And I know people have it worse then me like people who dont have function of their dicks anymore so I should probably shut up in that regard
    My testosterone level is 226, 4 months back. I did not take any medicine to imprpove after taking shots for 2 months with no beenfits on it. Currently, I have wood during sleep, masturbate whenever i want and get solid erection. I dont know about current level.Don t want to know.So you dont need to worry about your level. PM me if you want to talk...
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    I've been living with low testosterone for quite some time...over 10 yrs. It wasn't until last year when I got serious about bodybuilding that I got it tested after doing a lot of reading... I just thought I had problems with depression but then it all made sense. It was low-normal as well, which made it more livable, although it greatly lowered my quality of life throughout my twenties. I'm not going to live with it anymore though


    ps: darkblue - many people can still get a solid erection while having low testosterone. But the drive isn't there and there are many other health problems involved with it. Saying that you 'don't know and don't want to know' is not a healthy way to live. You should have a genuine care for your own well being and health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac1 View Post
    a natural level of 414 is perfectly normal. the majority of men are around the 400 number
    The majority of men are not very healthy to be honest. That is a normal level for a 70+ yr old man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    The majority of men are not very healthy to be honest. That is a normal level for a 70+ yr old man.

    for real, like I said before this injury if you took a test I wouldnt be surprised if I had at least 1,000 now I just feel dead, I never knew a man could possibly feel this bad, I feel for anyone who has to go through this crap, I dont know what is worse though, living with this your whole life or waking up suddenly and it was gone, it is funny before this my problem was I would get hard on's to easily and I was very scared and intimidated around girls, I would actually get embaressed because at 28 I would still get boners like I was a 13 year old, now I could barely get a boner if my life depended on it


    And does your health get worse as well? Because I notice my health has gone to crap, I get sick very easily and I get alot of chest pains as well, I heard your chances of heart disease increase by 72% if you have a lower testosterone, what a ****ing nightmare

    And if you are on TRT, do you feel differently, I always tried staying away from drugs and I hated taking Anti-depressents because I always tried to live a natural clean life and now this happens

    Are there any bad side effects of TRT, I cant imagine taking something like that the rest of my life but at the same time I cant imagine living like this I dont know how I can accept this
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Do you want to have philosophical chat
    or
    you would like to correct your situation?
    ------------------------------------------------------

    both perhaps
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    What about the people that got castrated in biblical times for punishment? They lived..


    and they were probably miserable
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    Where do you live currently? first thing is be calm and not worry much, Your testosterone level is ok to function normally.


    wisconsin usa
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    See a Physician, man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac1 View Post
    a natural level of 414 is perfectly normal. the majority of men are around the 400 number

    I highly doubt the majority of men are around 400, based on things I have read if you are under 800 and are under 30 years old there is a problem, and it goes down about 1% every year after
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1212 View Post
    for real, like I said before this injury if you took a test I wouldnt be surprised if I had at least 1,000 now I just feel dead, I never knew a man could possibly feel this bad, I feel for anyone who has to go through this crap, I dont know what is worse though, living with this your whole life or waking up suddenly and it was gone, it is funny before this my problem was I would get hard on's to easily and I was very scared and intimidated around girls, I would actually get embaressed because at 28 I would still get boners like I was a 13 year old, now I could barely get a boner if my life depended on it


    And does your health get worse as well? Because I notice my health has gone to crap, I get sick very easily and I get alot of chest pains as well, I heard your chances of heart disease increase by 72% if you have a lower testosterone, what a ****ing nightmare

    And if you are on TRT, do you feel differently, I always tried staying away from drugs and I hated taking Anti-depressents because I always tried to live a natural clean life and now this happens

    Are there any bad side effects of TRT, I cant imagine taking something like that the rest of my life but at the same time I cant imagine living like this I dont know how I can accept this

    Chest pains I've delt with for many years and always pushed them aside as nothing. All heart monitoring tests, blood pressure tests etc have always come back fine for me so I've always brushed it off as nothing.

    You should search around more on this forum and others, all the answers you are looking for are here. If you want some advice on good dr's let me know.

    BTW, I think living with it for someone's whole life is much worse..At least with your case, you KNOW what's wrong and that it's not normal and needs to be dealt with and HOW to deal with it. For someone who is accustomed to it, they can be stubborn and think it's just normal for them and grow to accept it over time...which is really unacceptable. If you decide to get help, at least you wouldn't have gone through the issues for several years on end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1212 View Post
    I highly doubt the majority of men are around 400, based on things I have read if you are under 800 and are under 30 years old there is a problem, and it goes down about 1% every year after
    You read misinformation probably from wannabe experts, but real world results are another thing.


    One of the best natural bodybuilders i know test levels are at 600 so that is a crock of crap, but his bioavialable is at top end.. i also know that top boxers are as low as 321 and can still fight with no problem. This was scientifically proven by laboratory testing.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You read misinformation probably from wannabe experts, but real world results are another thing.


    One of the best natural bodybuilders i know test levels are at 600 so that is a crock of crap, but his bioavialable is at top end.. i also know that top boxers are as low as 321 and can still fight with no problem. This was scientifically proven by laboratory testing.

    There's a lot of things you can still do with mid level and low normal test. Doesn't mean it's optimal or healthy though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    I've been living with low testosterone for quite some time...over 10 yrs. It wasn't until last year when I got serious about bodybuilding that I got it tested after doing a lot of reading... I just thought I had problems with depression but then it all made sense. It was low-normal as well, which made it more livable, although it greatly lowered my quality of life throughout my twenties. I'm not going to live with it anymore though


    ps: darkblue - many people can still get a solid erection while having low testosterone. But the drive isn't there and there are many other health problems involved with it. Saying that you 'don't know and don't want to know' is not a healthy way to live. You should have a genuine care for your own well being and health.
    Gutterpump,

    what kind of health problems you may get? Right now I dont have any problems. I am not sure about future. And more than that, endos are not good to treat Low T symptoms. They just give t shots and if E2 goes high, they reduce the dosage, if E2 goes down, they dont know what to do. This leads to more extra problems, acne, bloating,flushing etc.,Which I dont want to deal with. Before Testim and Androgel how do people treat Low T( 20 years back). They lived with it.unless if a person is primary, he dont need TRT.thats my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    Gutterpump,

    what kind of health problems you may get? Right now I dont have any problems. I am not sure about future. And more than that, endos are not good to treat Low T symptoms. They just give t shots and if E2 goes high, they reduce the dosage, if E2 goes down, they dont know what to do. This leads to more extra problems, acne, bloating,flushing etc.,Which I dont want to deal with. Before Testim and Androgel how do people treat Low T( 20 years back). They lived with it.unless if a person is primary, he dont need TRT.thats my opinion.
    There's a lot of possible health issues that can arise out of low T. You may not have them now but they can appear. The main health issue is psychological. Depression, cognition, drive, motivation, these are all affected or can easily become affected by declining T levels. There are lots of other health concerns with low T. I think most of them will start appearing below the 310 level...but a lot can still exist for people in the low normal range. Search around, and you can find the info.

    Also, find a great Dr who knows how to properly administer TRT and things will be / should be fine. Follow their lead and instructions, and things will be better than fine. Most endos and urologists are not great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    There's a lot of possible health issues that can arise out of low T. You may not have them now but they can appear. The main health issue is psychological. Depression, cognition, drive, motivation, these are all affected or can easily become affected by declining T levels. There are lots of other health concerns with low T. I think most of them will start appearing below the 310 level...but a lot can still exist for people in the low normal range. Search around, and you can find the info.

    Also, find a great Dr who knows how to properly administer TRT and things will be / should be fine. Follow their lead and instructions, and things will be better than fine. Most endos and urologists are not great.
    Currently I dont have those symptoms now. Do I still need to go for TRT. I am secondary becos my LH was low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    Chest pains I've delt with for many years and always pushed them aside as nothing. All heart monitoring tests, blood pressure tests etc have always come back fine for me so I've always brushed it off as nothing.

    You should search around more on this forum and others, all the answers you are looking for are here. If you want some advice on good dr's let me know.

    BTW, I think living with it for someone's whole life is much worse..At least with your case, you KNOW what's wrong and that it's not normal and needs to be dealt with and HOW to deal with it. For someone who is accustomed to it, they can be stubborn and think it's just normal for them and grow to accept it over time...which is really unacceptable. If you decide to get help, at least you wouldn't have gone through the issues for several years on end.

    I am not sure living with it and have it taken away is any better, I knew what I had and I didnt appreciate it and I took it for granted, I see other guys, the vast majority of guys and I look at them with envy, I cant even watch sports anymore because I am jealous of the announcers and jealous of the confidence a high testosterone gives you

    But on the same time I dont see how anyone can live like this their whole life, this depression is unbearable, I dont understand how people were able to deal with this before they had TRT, this depression is beyond horrible
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    You read misinformation probably from wannabe experts, but real world results are another thing.


    One of the best natural bodybuilders i know test levels are at 600 so that is a crock of crap, but his bioavialable is at top end.. i also know that top boxers are as low as 321 and can still fight with no problem. This was scientifically proven by laboratory testing.

    whatever, I dont see how that is possible everything I read tells me if it is below 800 then there is probably a problem, you named 2 sources, testosterone is something I can usually spot now and I can assure you most guys dont go around with a lower then normal testosterone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    There's a lot of possible health issues that can arise out of low T. You may not have them now but they can appear. The main health issue is psychological. Depression, cognition, drive, motivation, these are all affected or can easily become affected by declining T levels. There are lots of other health concerns with low T. I think most of them will start appearing below the 310 level...but a lot can still exist for people in the low normal range. Search around, and you can find the info.

    Also, find a great Dr who knows how to properly administer TRT and things will be / should be fine. Follow their lead and instructions, and things will be better than fine. Most endos and urologists are not great.

    My T must be below 310 at this point, I feel like crap, before it was the psychological nightmare now I just feel like hell, my body is freezing all the time and it is 60 degrees out and I just feel like crap
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    Hey K1212, perhaps go get it checked out if you haven't already? did you get the surgery to fix the varicocele? You should definitely get something done....it's never too late.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uptempo View Post
    Hey K1212, perhaps go get it checked out if you haven't already? did you get the surgery to fix the varicocele? You should definitely get something done....it's never too late.

    no I have an appointment with a specialist at the end of octber but I have a feeling he wont have the surgery on me because 1) I have unpaid medical bills and 2) he will probably tell me it wont repair my testosterone which will probably be correct
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    I don't see what the dilemma is? If you do nothing you will continue to feel like you do now (or worse). In one of your posts you say you can't imagine being on TRT for the rest of your life. With all due respect, "man up" and address your problem. There are many things worse than sticking yourself with a needle each week. One of them is to be in the condition you are in now.

    You need to get to a qualified Doctor and take control of your situation. If you are in Wisconsin, going to see Dr. Crisler in Lansing MI is within reason. He is within driving distance and has helped many people on these boards. Other than the initial visit everything can be done by phone. You may find that surgery is not necessary and you can feel like your old self with just some testosterone.

    While everyone here wishes you well, in the end it is up to you to look out for yourself.
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    Ok, say two males both have a testosterone level of 800. One is on trt and the other is not. Setting other variables aside who will generaly feel better. More confidence, better sex drive, etc. I have read many posts in the past that people are disapointed in trt. A male with a natural level of 800 is generaly not very disapointed in how they feel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    Currently I dont have those symptoms now. Do I still need to go for TRT. I am secondary becos my LH was low.
    If everything is working and you feel fine, then you don't need TRT.
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    I don't understand the 2 months of shots and then quitting. After the first month your natural production of T would have stopped. All that would have been left was whatever the shots were giving you. I'm assuming you were taking weekly shots with a starting dose of around 100mg a week? Anything less than that or less often was pretty much an amateurish effort and a waste of time. You should have had your blood tested after the first month. After my first month of weekly shots my TT was about the same. Once we bumped the dose up a bit I could really start seeing the difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shootist View Post
    I don't understand the 2 months of shots and then quitting. After the first month your natural production of T would have stopped. All that would have been left was whatever the shots were giving you. I'm assuming you were taking weekly shots with a starting dose of around 100mg a week? Anything less than that or less often was pretty much an amateurish effort and a waste of time. You should have had your blood tested after the first month. After my first month of weekly shots my TT was about the same. Once we bumped the dose up a bit I could really start seeing the difference.
    I was taking 200mg/2 weeks. After 2 mnths wehn tested My total T was 1150. Estradiol was high. And doctor could nto do anythign with Estradiol. Ans it did not give me any good results., So i stopped taking it and decided to improve in natural ways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    I was taking 200mg/2 weeks. After 2 mnths wehn tested My total T was 1150. Estradiol was high. And doctor could nto do anythign with Estradiol. Ans it did not give me any good results., So i stopped taking it and decided to improve in natural ways.

    You didn't get good results because your estradiol shot up...plain and simple. You should see a new doctor, or you can deal with estradiol on your own and monitor bloodwork, etc. No herbs or pranic healing are going to heal someone of hypogonadism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    I was taking 200mg/2 weeks. After 2 mnths wehn tested My total T was 1150. Estradiol was high. And doctor could nto do anythign with Estradiol. Ans it did not give me any good results., So i stopped taking it and decided to improve in natural ways.
    200mg/2weeks
    that is 100mg/week on average.
    that 1150 depends when you have drawn the blood.
    You definitely do not have this level of TT over every day during 2 weeks period.
    Variations are real big.
    Assuming that you would stay on the same average testosterone dose,
    you should get better results if you split the T doses and do
    2/week or E3D.
    In any case draw blood 48 hrs after T shot.
    That should stabilize your TT levels and most likely reduce E2 or allow you to have better control using
    Arimidex=Liquidex=Anastrozole.
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    Thanks Sanz,

    The test was taken at the end of first week.
    As of now I dont feel any symptoms of Low test. Atleast for libido,sexuality,mood,concentr ation,energy levels all are good.
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    K (Cheesehead),

    Can you share what exactly happened to destroy your test levels?

    Have you considered that other hormones can spike up and make you feel like crap? When you get your blood test have them check out Estrogen, Cortisol and Prolactin. There are probably some others that the guys on this board would suggest also.

    One other consideration...I've spent a lot of time with my relatives in Wisconsin. Everybody is overweight, under exercised and drinks too much. A lot of the older guys in my clan all ended up with sleep apnea. This alone can trash your hormone profile all by itself. Are you a big guy? Do you snore loudly? Do you fall asleep easily during the day? I'm just trying to cover the ground that is familiar to me in figuring out how you can get better. Short of a few docs like Crisler, you're not going to get a lot of help from the medical community. A lot of the guys on these forums could run circles around most MDs when it comes to "applied endocrinology."
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpk View Post
    K (Cheesehead),

    Can you share what exactly happened to destroy your test levels?

    Have you considered that other hormones can spike up and make you feel like crap? When you get your blood test have them check out Estrogen, Cortisol and Prolactin. There are probably some others that the guys on this board would suggest also.

    One other consideration...I've spent a lot of time with my relatives in Wisconsin. Everybody is overweight, under exercised and drinks too much. A lot of the older guys in my clan all ended up with sleep apnea. This alone can trash your hormone profile all by itself. Are you a big guy? Do you snore loudly? Do you fall asleep easily during the day? I'm just trying to cover the ground that is familiar to me in figuring out how you can get better. Short of a few docs like Crisler, you're not going to get a lot of help from the medical community. A lot of the guys on these forums could run circles around most MDs when it comes to "applied endocrinology."
    well it was obviously my varicocele, still insure how it formed, either my dog stomping on the back of my testicle, or 2 days later after a long masturbation session I woke up every hour that night to urinate and the next morning I realized I couldnt get a hard on and I couldnt get any mental images of females running through my head

    and my health is A+ as far that goes, I am pretty much a Vegan, I dont drink or smoke and weight about 135 pounds and am 5 6
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    I was taking 200mg/2 weeks. After 2 mnths wehn tested My total T was 1150. Estradiol was high. And doctor could nto do anythign with Estradiol. Ans it did not give me any good results., So i stopped taking it and decided to improve in natural ways.
    What have been your natural methods?
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    I was taking 200mg/2 weeks. After 2 mnths wehn tested My total T was 1150. Estradiol was high. And doctor could nto do anythign with Estradiol. Ans it did not give me any good results., So i stopped taking it and decided to improve in natural ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    200mg/2weeks
    that is 100mg/week on average.
    that 1150 depends when you have drawn the blood.
    You definitely do not have this level of TT over every day during 2 weeks period.
    Variations are real big.
    Assuming that you would stay on the same average testosterone dose,
    you should get better results if you split the T doses and do
    2/week or E3D.
    In any case draw blood 48 hrs after T shot.
    That should stabilize your TT levels and most likely reduce E2 or allow you to have better control using
    Arimidex=Liquidex=Anastrozole.


    Quote Originally Posted by darkblue1 View Post
    Thanks Sanz,

    The test was taken at the end of first week.
    As of now I dont feel any symptoms of Low test. Atleast for libido,sexuality,mood,concentr ation,energy levels all are good
    .
    Would you like to make up your mind, either you feel good or bad.
    ============================== =====
    I think you are not really good.
    Please re-read my advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpk View Post
    A lot of the older guys in my clan all ended up with sleep apnea. This alone can trash your hormone profile all by itself. Are you a big guy? Do you snore loudly? Do you fall asleep easily during the day?
    Does TRT also help heal sleep apnea? I sleep like $hit a lot of the time, but I'm fairly lean and live pretty healthy. I don't think I wake up much during the night, but I don't wake up feeling well rested most of the time. I always thought it was due to low test though..but sleep apnea also crossed my mind since I can be such a heavy snorer at times. Strange thing is I dream almost every night, lucid dreams and lots of them..so I must be getting deep sleep...
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    I've read it can make it worse. Not really sure though
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    Quote Originally Posted by K1212 View Post
    whatever, I dont see how that is possible everything I read tells me if it is below 800 then there is probably a problem, you named 2 sources, testosterone is something I can usually spot now and I can assure you most guys dont go around with a lower then normal testosterone
    Show me the research youv'e been reading that says what you're claiming in red above... I couldn't find any... I doubt you'll be able to generate one either.. But, I'm willing to give you the benefit of doubt.

    .
  

  
 

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