Can TRT cause or trigger Bipolar disorder???
- 09-26-2008, 12:31 PM
Can TRT cause or trigger Bipolar disorder???
I am at the lowest point in my life right now and yet not long ago it wasn't the case at all.
It is a very long story but I'll keep it as brief as possible.
I am 20 years old, and last December I started on TRT (100mg T enanthate a week) for low-normal T levels.
I didn't feel *much* of a difference but things seemed to be a bit better mood-wise (I wasn't having problems with libido... just mood and fatigue). I added .25mg Adex 2x week in March and felt a real difference at that point, everything went into overdrive.
Suddenly in May, I became progressively hypomanic. Almost infinite amounts of energy, creative potential, etc. I was talking all the time and always keeping myself busy. My social life was amazing. I felt a highly spiritual "connection" like I was some sort of chosen one. Basically, all the signs of hypomania were there. Zero depression and zero anxiety. Libido was in overdrive. I was in a constant state of euphoria and I loved it.
At the time I did not suspect anything was wrong because finally everything in my life was going just the way I wanted it. I just figured that TRT had completely solved all my problems and I was beginning my "real life" for once.
I was in this sort of state up until the end of August (so it lasted about 3 months), when my endo decided to cut my TRT out of the blue. I had not seen him for months so he just sort of left me to my own devices.
I figured I was feeling so good at that point that it wouldn't matter if I had to discontinue TRT... I would be able to pull through.
Near the end of August, in a matter of weeks I turned from hypomanic to suicidally depressed for absolutely no reason (3-4 weeks without TRT at this point). I had to quit work because of it.
I feared it was because I stopped the TRT, so I explained the whole thing to my p-doc and got him to prescribe the T again.
But it did nothing... even after 4 weeks of being back on TRT, I am still suffering from the worst depression of my life. I am literally either crying or sleeping or trying not to have a panic attack. I have never had a depression this severe in my life before.
I reluctantly went to a psychiatrist and the diagnosis was Bipolar type II.
I have absolutely no family history of bipolar or mental illnesses so I was astounded.
Unfortunately after doing the research for myself, I fit the Bipolar II criteria to a T.
Could TRT have triggered some kind of "overload" in my brain that caused this? It's not like I was doing some kind of cycle. I followed the 100mg a week protocol for the entire duration so none of this makes any sense.
I am wondering if I should quit TRT and consider a restart or something? I have really no idea what to do at this point. Was stopping the T for the 4 weeks that I did damage something permanently? Was it because I started TRT at souch a young age? Was it a coincidence that everything turned around 360 when I stopped the T and didn't get any better when I restarted it?
My mind is just swimming with questions one after another and I am stuck in this damn thing with no way out. The depression has only gotten worse with time and there is absolutely nothing that will lift it. I feel like I just got a labotomy because I have not felt this awful in my entire life. I've been suicidally depressed since the beginning of September.
I know this is a really complicated situation, but perhaps some of you can chime in some light.
- 09-26-2008, 01:24 PM
Have you had any labs done since being back on TRT. Maybe you have some other hormonal issues to look at it.
- 09-26-2008, 01:38 PM
09-26-2008, 02:34 PM
In the mean time work on getting your
T, E2, DHT in order
it would be even better if you could keep Adrenals and thyroid in check.
To do that you have to do these tests at Quest, blood drawn at Quest, 48 hrs after T shot.
reverse T3 (rT3)
Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
If you are able to arrange for that, it may spare you suffering.
Do not try to manage your hormonal situation without proper testing, hopeless.
Better take the medicine for bipolar.
If you can arrange for the testing, do it, post results.
At the moment there is a lots of advice missing, you will ned it, for now just get decent testing so we know where you are really standing.
09-26-2008, 04:51 PM
I can't do that kind of blood work right now.
I'm thinking of stopping TRT cold turkey since I can't do PCT.
I am not having symptoms of fatigue or low libido. I'm just *severely* depressed and have accompanying problems with anxiety. Nothing triggered this.
I wanted to know if anyone experienced anything similar to this while on TRT.
I'm scared as hell right now and I don't know what else I can do but wait it out.
09-26-2008, 09:03 PM
09-26-2008, 09:15 PM
09-27-2008, 12:15 PM
1. what were your CK levels? mine were 840 i think..haha (not even sure why it was ordered, neither was doctor
2. you just started back on....takes time for it to get rollin again....patient
09-27-2008, 10:03 PM
Till this day, I try to think what caused this anxiety attack out of nowhere.... Sometimes I think maybe estrogen ??? Don't know for sure.. and will probably never will.. But, I do know for sure it was due to my hormones getting totally out of wack suddenly.... Some hormone or more went either too low or too high and caused a biological and a psycological chaos. I had a choice; either do extensive testing covering everything known to man to try to figure it out, or abandon all drugs and let my own body heal itself. I chose the latter and never regreted so. It was the best decision I made.
I did my restart about two years ago... I suffered from depression during my restart off and on... but anxiety stated to go away soon after the restart... Today; thank God, I'm doing better than ever... I have no depression... no anxiety... feeling like my old self once again.
09-27-2008, 10:36 PM
First off I can't believe. Dr cut off trt like that second test controls hormones which effect ur mood well being feelings ur. Cutting of trt screwed with your lh hormone which controls normal test production I've been in ur shoes b4 that's why icame back to trt self admins my sugg would be some hcg 250iu three times a week and get on a anti d I take lexapro cuz test gives me anxiety I was feeling worthless until hcg now I'm great again just a sugg hcg should bring ur luetinizing hormone back somewhat dr should of never stopped u like that without a pct ur hormones r u life control everything even cns brain activity lib ido feelings thyroid hope it works out been there before
09-28-2008, 12:34 AM
09-28-2008, 07:41 AM
I'd. Advice to be under dr care mental instabilty not a thing to play with luckly I have a fam member that's a dr when I had that **** happen lexapro did help for me and hcg ti. Contrary to above saying will shut down lh but small doses of hcg 250iu m w. Fr won't shut down will kickstart if ur prob. Lies with low test need labs all hcg. Is. Is prenant piss. So to make it more understanable when u inject into a male. Ur body is. Saying what's. Going on hence. Starts. Producing more test. How dr. Explained it u nees to. See a dr like I said that sucks. Feeling like that ull pull thruogh goodluck
09-28-2008, 11:45 AM
10-26-2008, 02:40 PM
It's been over 2 months and I am still not any better.
I don't know if anyone has anything to say to help me find out what's going on with me...
I have been googling for hours every day trying to find a link between testosterone replacement and bipolar disorder.
It is tormenting me because of two things:
1) I have absolutely no family history of any mental illness including bipolar
2) aside from minor depression, prior to the onset of my first hypomanic episode I was a pretty damn normal life (at least compared to now)
So far I have found no evidence to support that starting TRT at 20 could have caused this.
It seems that there is a disregulation in the HPTA axis and malfunction in the hypothalamus that occurs in bipolar so I wondered if it was connected since perhaps the brain has not finished developing.
Other than that, since ceasing TRT correlated with the onset of the major depression and I didn't see any improvement whatsoever when resuming the TRT, it could perhaps mean that something else is wrong, hormonally speaking.
What could be the culprit ? I don't think it's adrenal or thyroid problems because my energy levels are fine.
I am just dealing with straight up severe melancholic depression and the anxiety that comes with it.
I am desperately trying to find some information because the bipolar meds I've been put on for about a month now aren't doing a thing and if it's something else then...
However, the problem is that the entire thing fits the bipolar scenario to a T there is no denying it but if I could at least stop beating myself up wondering if it was my fault I'd feel a bit better.
I am really desperate to find something that will make me better ASAP because the stress is literally killing me. My beard has stopped growing, I have lost all strength gains and cannot go up in weights AT ALL (despite being on TRT), my hair is falling out, my adrenals are in ****ing overdrive because I'm getting severe anxiety attacks every few minutes. It is a living hell.
ALSO, I am seeing a very good endo in a few days and I was wondering if it would be worth it to try a restart? I know clomid is known to cause emotional issues and I remember I felt like **** when I tried HCG when I started TRT (so I dropped it)... seeing as how I am already in pretty bad shape would it be worth it?
I figure it perhaps would be worth it seeing has how TRT is no longer making any difference.
Of course I could always go back on the T if it doesn't work out.
My hope is simply that if something is severely disrupted (I don't know what but perhaps some freak 1 in a million genetic mutation that would make me susceptible) by my using TRT it will have a chance of leveling out although it is quite the long shot.
10-27-2008, 10:25 AM
You need to get back to a good Dr. and get some bloodwork done. You have had some major changes to your system between starting TRT, quitting, restarting, etc. My guess would be that if you can get your system back to the way it was with your "good" treatment plan you will be fine.
Look back at JanSZ's post from a month ago. It is good advice.
10-27-2008, 06:06 PM
Anxiety could be from high estrogen or low Cortisol, you could have Adrenal Fatigue.
Depression could be from high estrogen or most likely low Free T3 levels, or thyroid resistance or high Reverse T3. Low cortisol can cause thyroid to not be able to enter the cells.
You need to test Cortisol 4 times of the day and DHEA-S through ZRT labs, its a saliva test called Adrenal Function test. You deinfetly need to test your full thyroid hormones aswell, but you really need to do the full testing like JanSz suggested, but you need to test adrenals forsure by saliva.
11-20-2008, 10:05 PM
there is no such thing as bi-polar disorder, like most mental illnesses it is something that is made up by the psychiatrists/psychologists because they dont have an explanation for why those people are the way they are but there is an explanation for everything
As far as your mood, I am sure it has alot to do with medication/the world/ lack of natural testosterone
I dont know what to tell you other then the world is a complicated place and I dont put much stock into medication and doctors/psychiatrists having the answer
I can relate however to you feeling suicidally depressed, if you ask me that is the result of a lack of testosterone, as for the other stuff I dont know what to say, I am not one for taking drugs, but you have to know if you take drugs there is no right or wrong answer and you will have to deal with the negative side effects, you will never be as happy or as complete as you would be if you were born with a natural testosterone
11-21-2008, 11:16 AM
K1212, worst post I have heard in ages. "No such thing as bipolar" wow...It is real and effects many many people in serious ways..
I would say you sound paranoid yourself LOL
Some people have ligitamite psychological issues that you can't go disregarding as 'hormonal'.
T isn't the cure-all magic hormone
For some people it really helps them, but many people can be born with a genetic predisposition to mental illness, regardless of hormonal status. Don't go spewing your unbacked theories and speculation which can be potentially harmful to people's health.
11-21-2008, 11:26 AM
This is probably the best post in here. I agree 100%
Hormones in the normal range will not be the cause for anxiety, depression, or any issues.
If you are on TRT and issues arise, it is because something is out of balance, which is very easy when on TRT because the body is not on auto-pilot.
You have to find a good doctor and stay on top of it, and find what works for you while getting occassional tests in case things need to be tweaked. If you're not dedicated to your health, then your health won't be dedicated to you.
11-21-2008, 11:59 AM
Bungloid48, ask your doctor for a neurotransmitter profile, via urine testing. Specifically you want to test your primary catecholamines. It is possible you have an imbalance in epinephrine, norepinephrine or dopamine...this can cause some extreme anxiety. Also test your e2 (specify ultrasensitive e2 when testing).
If I were you I would check for adrenal/thyroid imbalances as well. For adrenals, you must do a 24 hour urine cortisol test.
Stopping TRT flat out can easily cause more issues and can compound things, especially if you are feeling depressed.
Find a good A4E Dr. I can refer one if you'd like. Also, don't hesitate to speak with a psychologist if your depression or moods are extreme.
11-21-2008, 12:14 PM
I tried to neg ya!!!
That was one of the worse next to Tom Cruise Rant about Brooke Shields.
BiPolar is real, and if you do not get it checked or managed it can take over your life. I am also thinking what is your climate like do you live in a snowy region? With you being on TRT it could have helped your levels, but I am possibly thinking the lack of the test, and Possible Seasonal Affective Disorder.
Get another endocrinoligist bro, he sux!!!
11-21-2008, 05:31 PM
But as time goes on and the world becomes a better place we will see most of these psychological disorders are just a bunch of nonsense
and yea let his doctor know what is best, most doctors are motivated by money, you take away money and people will actually look for a peace and understanding in this world
11-21-2008, 05:54 PM
11-21-2008, 06:04 PM
11-21-2008, 07:06 PM
"peace and understanding", "world becoming a better place"...I don't buy it sounds like certain propaganda...I think people like you who think things are just 'imagined up' are dangerous, and it's this mindset that doesn't sit so well when it comes to serious issues such as health.
11-21-2008, 07:07 PM
You may have been misdiagnosed. Get a second opinion, you could just have depression.
As far as the hypomania, I have have feelings very similar to that during the summer and it has always gone away near the end of august. I wouldn't call it hypomania though. These feelings also occured most intensely when I was 20 years old. I think it is just hormones, amplified by the summer sun. When you come down it seems like its the end of the world when its really just baseline.
I have tried to diagnose myself before and I thought I was bipolar. It turned out I was just depressed. Because depression works in cycles, when I would cycle back to basline, it would feel like hypomania. (btw, hypomania can be used to descirbe your suicidially depressed feelings as well).
Think back to how you were before all the extreme feelings came, were you a social and creative person? You not be giving yourself credit for the person you are, which is very easy to do while depressed. Also think about what has been going on in your life, if you have suffered any traumatic stress, a major break up, death of a friend or family.
Are you still figureing out what your beliefs are and what you want to do with your life? Things like this can manifest themeselves as psychiatric disorders temporaraliy.
If you think about suicide remember that if you kill yourself you may be ending your pain but you're only transfering it to everyone close to you. It is a very selfish thing to do. Plus your young, whatever it is your upset about will pass.
Hang in there!
11-21-2008, 07:13 PM
11-21-2008, 07:26 PM
hrmm... when it comes to health, I'll put my faith in something tried tested and true. Something with merit and backing...and much proof along with the studies to show for it.
I'd rather not throw my health into the wind on a mere hunch that the world is corrupt. If you find a good Dr that legitamitely cares about your health (and there are several out there) then all is good.
11-22-2008, 12:18 PM
okay so I just read this article in the paper about about some kidd biggs who killed himself on webcam by oding on opiates and benzos. I read on and it said he had bipolar disorder and he warned people on a bodybuildg website...
01-07-2009, 12:09 AM
Don't worry guys. It's not me lol
I've slowly gotten better (after 4 months of suffering).
I've went through lamictal, lithium, wellbutrin & Zoloft and so far the only thing that has helped is the Zoloft. I feel like I live in a bubble now. Not too sad but never happy. Zero motivation or ambition. I don't know what the future holds for me but there's an immense undercurrent of envy and thinking back at what I used to be makes me feel indescribably sad.
That said... there is no doubt in my mind that this is Bipolar I disorder. I retrieved some of the stuff I "wrote" and created during my manic phase and it makes no sense at all. It has grandiose delusions and paranoid schizophrenia written all over it.
I don't know if TRT and Liquidex had anything to do with it though. Age of onset at 20 is pretty common... Oh well. I had a pretty nice life up until now. We'll see how the rest goes.
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