is Restart Worth it or not?
- 09-20-2008, 04:36 PM
is Restart Worth it or not?
I've done lots of research lately and read people didnt really feel any long term
benefits from trying a restart protocol. Maybe i didn't do enough research but
My question is, is it worth trying a restart? Is there a certain success rate? How many people have actually been able to do a restart and have long term benefits? If it doesn't really have long term benefits then should one really waste the time with it + with all the side effects.
Is it just better to start TRT like taking HCG/Testosterone shots? ive read lots of people have sucess with this but you have to take those shots for life.
A restart would be great because then your body would be able to make testosterone itself natrually but has it really helped people for long term benefits?
I was really excited to have an option to restart but after my research im a bit confused. I hope someone can shine some light my way.
I read a report by Dr Crisler: TRT: A Recipe for Success
And a part of it says:
"I occasionally hear of physicians trying to use a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) such as Clomid or Nolvadex, or even an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI), such as Arimidex, as sole “TRT”. All have been shown to elevate LH, and therefore Total Testosterone levels. However, patients report no long-term subjective benefits from these strategies, and the studies thus far reported no long-term changes in lean body mass, fatigue levels, libido, etc. An added risk of using an AI is of driving estrogen levels too low, with deleterious consequences for the lipid profile, calcium deposition, libido, etc."
Any information is greatly appreciated.
- 09-20-2008, 09:59 PM
there are guys here that use clomid as TRT, I think it is foolish.
a restart may work for some, but most don't have that luxury of doing so well.
the best long term treatment is TRT not SERM/AI.
09-21-2008, 12:18 AM
I think clomid is worth a try if your bloodwork points toward secondary i.e. low to mid lh and fsh. If you take clomid and your test levels go up then it is almost certain that you are secondary and that you would benefit from hcg alone without testosterone. I would however wait a few months without the clomid and retest to see where your test levels are. I think pofellow and lean guy have had success with clomid alone for a short period to restart. I think pofellow restarted after a cycle and lean guy restarted from naturally low levels. If you take clomid and your test levels don't increase significantly then you might be primary and would benefit from hcg/test therapy. People can say all kinds of things about this, but my argument would be to treat the actual problem. Another argument would be produce naturally as long as you can and then go on to TRT a benefit only available if you are secondary. And back to treating the actual problem have you found out the reason for your low test levels? This is very important. I'm new so I might get railed. JMO and for info.
09-21-2008, 08:21 PM
Clomid helped me get going, and now I'm using sustain alpha as a mild AI for maintenance. Libido has been up and down, even though my T levels hang around 600.
I just found out I have a zinc deficiency. I believe this could be the reason for my low T and other symptoms. Men should be zinc dominant, not copper dominant. Even though I was taking 30-45 mg zinc ED, I was getting way too much copper from my drinking water... this caused a deficiency because copper antagonizes zinc. It also destroyed all my vitamin C despite supplementing that as well. I'll see how it helps my homones when I get my vitamins/minerals back in balance (6-12 mos). SpectraCell is a great test... recommended by The Matrix. He initially suggested I had a copper imbalance based on hair analysis... really smart guy!!
So, to answer your question... I think it's a good idea to investigate all possible causes before you commit to a lifelong TRT plan... it might be caused by something you least suspect.
09-21-2008, 09:21 PM
Thanks for the info. Im interested in the SpectraCell Test. I wanted to know how much did it cost? Did your insurrance cover it? How can someone get that test done?
Is it very easy to understand what Vitamin/Mineral deficiency's might have with that test?
Does it matter when to get tested? before a attempt to restart or after?
Also is this test different from Rheins 24 hour urine test?
It looks like they dont have a clinic in NY.
09-21-2008, 09:28 PM
It doesn't matter when you take it, because it uses your lymphocytes to show stored vitamin levels over the past 6 months.
I ordered it here (no, insurance did not cover):
Intracellular Vitamin Analysis by Spectracell
I took the kit to a local hospital lab and they charged me $10 for a blood draw. I know New York has some crazy rules about mail-order testing, so check first.
I think its a great test that everyone should do.. even if its not related to low T.
09-23-2008, 09:47 PM
I attached a image of the SpectraCell test and what it checks. I wanted to know is this all the vitamins it checks for? In ur test it shows Copper & vitamin C but i dont see Vitamin C, Copper in that list
Where can i get a full list of what this test actually checks?
09-23-2008, 10:17 PM
They must have added a few later on... including VC, copper & chromium. Look at the list on this page:
I'll post my full report in a separate thread.
09-25-2008, 06:59 PM
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