DIM for e2 control? - AnabolicMinds.com

DIM for e2 control?

  1. RugbyHooligan's Avatar
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    DIM for e2 control?


    is it possible to use DIM solely to control E2 while on TRT?

    more specifically the injections?

    how much would have to be taken approximately and should one wean off of the arimidex?

    looking to try it out because long term use of liquidex can't be good for you.

  2. OldGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugbyHooligan View Post
    is it possible to use DIM solely to control E2 while on TRT?

    more specifically the injections?

    how much would have to be taken approximately and should one wean off of the arimidex?

    looking to try it out because long term use of liquidex can't be good for you.
    Since starting TRT about 8 months ago I also started using DIM as I knew up front my doc doesn't easily prescribe AI's. My E2 has been like a rock throughout - range rarely varies between 22 and 28 no matter how much test or hcg we used.

    Looking back at BW about 2 years ago (before starting TRT and DIM) my E2 was 32, so I must conclude that DIM is efective for me.

    My doc does have me on low dose danazol which dramatically lowered my high shbg. But I don't believe danazol has any anti-E properties.

    Today I use a big dose of 200mg of T Cream ED and 500iu's hcg EOD. And I take DIM every day. TT=900 (from 300's), E=26, low shbg. I feel great and have never used an AI.

    The product I use is Nature's Way DIM-Plus, 200-300mg ED.
  3. jon671's Avatar
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    I am not on TRT, but I am taking bromocriptine to lower my prolactin. I think it was like 19 and the upper limit was 15. Feel a little better after first day anyway. My estradiol is like 55 and the range says anything under 203. I read on here around 20 is ideal. Could using a dim lower levels significantly. Is it hard to get prescribed a AI? If low test raises and you stop using it will it remain low? Not to jack thread.
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  4. hebsie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon671 View Post
    My estradiol is like 55 and the range says anything under 203. I read on here around 20 is ideal. Could using a dim lower levels significantly. Is it hard to get prescribed a AI? If low test raises and you stop using it will it remain low? Not to jack thread.
    ...no offense Jon, but this is one of the problems of the internet, self-diagnosis.

    You hear guys talking about the magical '20' number. Those guys are referring to Estradiol that's being measured in pg/mL, and it's usually on a scale of under <53 pg/mL (or something similar).

    When you talk about being 55 on a scale of under 203, that tells me that you're more than likely in Canada (or the UK) where Estradiol is measured in pmol/L, not pg/mL like in the USA.

    With a conversion factor (for Estradiol) of 3.671, your 55 pmol/L is actually equal to 15 pg/mL (on that <53 scale that is). For me would be borderline low and I'd start exhibiting signs of low E2 at such a low level.

    Personally I do not suggest lowering your levels any further.
  5. JanSz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugbyHooligan View Post
    is it possible to use DIM solely to control E2 while on TRT?

    more specifically the injections?

    how much would have to be taken approximately and should one wean off of the arimidex?

    looking to try it out because long term use of liquidex can't be good for you.
    Make sure that you do not kill too much of your E2, that will definitely cause bone loss.
    On dr John's board there is already a guy with a bone loss after using large amounts of Arimidex.
    It is not about Arimidex, it is about evaluating need for it and making proper dose adjustments.

    I would not worry about long term use of Anastrozole.
    But I do worry about (long term) incorrect E2 levels.

    Correct test (ultrasensitive) need to be used to find where you are at.

    If you really want to know about need for DIM,
    do 24hr urine test at Rhein Labs
    or Genova.
    Look at estrogen metabolites, their level will guide you.
    .
    .
  6. RugbyHooligan's Avatar
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    last time I got tested my e2 was 55 with the high end being 56. so that makes me high-normal

    now I know a-dex causes some lipid and cholesterol issues, so thats why I asked about this.

    oldgator, I use the same brand. how many pills do you take per day of that? I'm at 3 per day.
  7. jon671's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hebsie View Post
    ...no offense Jon, but this is one of the problems of the internet, self-diagnosis.

    You hear guys talking about the magical '20' number. Those guys are referring to Estradiol that's being measured in pg/mL, and it's usually on a scale of under <53 pg/mL (or something similar).

    When you talk about being 55 on a scale of under 203, that tells me that you're more than likely in Canada (or the UK) where Estradiol is measured in pmol/L, not pg/mL like in the USA.

    With a conversion factor (for Estradiol) of 3.671, your 55 pmol/L is actually equal to 15 pg/mL (on that <53 scale that is). For me would be borderline low and I'd start exhibiting signs of low E2 at such a low level.

    Personally I do not suggest lowering your levels any further.
    First test:

    Estradiol (DLS) 32pg/mL 20-75pg/mL

    Second test:

    Estradiol (DLS) 55pg/mL <207pg/mL


    DLS changed their manufacturer for estradiol from Beckman to Siemens. Reference ranges have been adjusted accordingly.


    I live in a US territory so when I draw blood it is sent to the states for testing. My estradiol is close to mid range on the first test and my prolactin is out of range. I am taking bromocriptine to lower it. My testosterone is low last time I tested it was 290 with bottom of range at 230. I keep hearing how being overweight causes aromatase so as of now besides the lifestyle changes I have made I am looking for other ways to lower my estradiol or anything that will make me feel better. Oh yeah I have gyno so my estradiol must be an issue or at least the ratio to test. I assume nothing I am trying to learn all I can. No ofense taken.
  8. MarkLA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon671 View Post
    First test:

    Estradiol (DLS) 32pg/mL 20-75pg/mL

    Second test:

    Estradiol (DLS) 55pg/mL <207pg/mL


    DLS changed their manufacturer for estradiol from Beckman to Siemens. Reference ranges have been adjusted accordingly.


    I live in a US territory so when I draw blood it is sent to the states for testing. My estradiol is close to mid range on the first test and my prolactin is out of range. I am taking bromocriptine to lower it. My testosterone is low last time I tested it was 290 with bottom of range at 230. I keep hearing how being overweight causes aromatase so as of now besides the lifestyle changes I have made I am looking for other ways to lower my estradiol or anything that will make me feel better. Oh yeah I have gyno so my estradiol must be an issue or at least the ratio to test. I assume nothing I am trying to learn all I can. No ofense taken.

    I wonder if the range you were given is specific for men or for women too. That might explain middle of the range but having gyno?
  9. jon671's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLA View Post
    I wonder if the range you were given is specific for men or for women too. That might explain middle of the range but having gyno?
    Yeah it was specific to men. There were other ranges for women, post menopausal women........ But my estradiol is mid range so I wonder why I have gyno and low test. I mean if the cause of my low test is aromatese from being overweight then why is my estradiol in range?
  10. LeanGuy's Avatar
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    DIM may reduce thyroid function?
  11. superone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    DIM also reduces thyroid function... not a fan

    Where did you read this?
  12. LeanGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superone View Post
    Where did you read this?
    Cruciferous veggies like broccoli are known goitrogens... here is a good list:

    How to Avoid Goitrogens: Healthy Foods That May Hurt Your Thyroid Gland | eHow.com

    I am not positive about DIM itself, but it is made from concentrated broccoli. My thyroid is borderline so I stay away from it just in case. That's my excuse for not eating my broccoli
  13. superone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    Cruciferous veggies like broccoli are known goitrogens... here is a good list:

    How to Avoid Goitrogens: Healthy Foods That May Hurt Your Thyroid Gland | eHow.com

    I am not positive about DIM itself, but it is made from concentrated broccoli. My thyroid is borderline so I stay away from it just in case. That's my excuse for not eating my broccoli


    This specific Iodine is supposed to block the goitrogen effects of foods on the Thyoird gland.


    Iosol Iodine for Thyroid Nutrition and Body Temperature


    "Adequate iodine is also needed to block various compounds from binding to and accumulating in the thyroid gland (fluoride, perchlorate, goitrogens in food)."



    I think having too much Estrogen or the bad type of Estrogen is equally or worse for the thyroid gland as it blocks its function. I think DIM and this Iodine would be a potent combination for the thyroid, if DIM really does work that is.
  14. LeanGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superone View Post
    This specific Iodine is supposed to block the goitrogen effects of foods on the Thyoird gland.


    Iosol Iodine for Thyroid Nutrition and Body Temperature


    "Adequate iodine is also needed to block various compounds from binding to and accumulating in the thyroid gland (fluoride, perchlorate, goitrogens in food)."

    Nice, looks like a great product.


    Quote Originally Posted by superone View Post
    I think having too much Estrogen or the bad type of Estrogen is equally or worse for the thyroid gland as it blocks its function. I think DIM and this Iodine would be a potent combination for the thyroid, if DIM really does work that is.
    True, I don't believe DIM actually lowers total E2 much (didn't for me anyway)... but it can keep the estrogen metabolite ratio healthy... more 2-hydroxyestrone (good) vs. 16a-hydroxyestrone (bad).
  15. superone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    Nice, looks like a great product.




    True, I don't believe DIM actually lowers total E2 much (didn't for me anyway)... but it can keep the estrogen metabolite ratio healthy... more 2-hydroxyestrone (good) vs. 16a-hydroxyestrone (bad).

    Yeah, i wish there was something non synthetic to lower actual E2, so something like that and DIM would be a good combo.


    DIM and low dose Aromasin would be a good combo if actual overall Estrogen levels needed to be lowered, but i would rather not use synthetic drugs as they damage DNA and cant be good if your looking for optimal health and longevity.
  16. LeanGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superone View Post
    Yeah, i wish there was something non synthetic to lower actual E2, so something like that and DIM would be a good combo.


    DIM and low dose Aromasin would be a good combo if actual overall Estrogen levels needed to be lowered, but i would rather not use synthetic drugs as they damage DNA and cant be good if your looking for optimal health and longevity.
    6-OXO claims to be natural. It does work, but sounds steroidal/hormonal to me.

    There are also flavonoids like chrysin & resveratol. Yesterday I ordered up some Sustain Alpha which combines these into a transdermal... gonna give it a try.
  17. superone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    6-OXO claims to be natural. It does work, but sounds steroidal/hormonal to me.

    There are also flavonoids like chrysin & resveratol. Yesterday I ordered up some Sustain Alpha which combines these into a transdermal... gonna give it a try.

    Great, going to look into it.


    Thanks!
  18. jon671's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeanGuy View Post
    6-OXO claims to be natural. It does work, but sounds steroidal/hormonal to me.
    Yeah I was gonna try it, but read the side effects and it said it can cause birth defects. I am trying to have a baby so it's a no no.
  

  
 

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