Recent thyroid results-- just OK
- 08-25-2008, 06:27 PM
Recent thyroid results-- just OK
Here's the results from a recent thyroid panel... could be better. My appetite and metabolism have been thru the roof lately, so I thought my TSH would be < 1 for sure... nope.
TSH 2.11 [0.350-5.500 uIU/mL]
T4 7.9 [4.5-12.0 ug/dL]
FreeT3 3.4 [2.3-4.2 pg/mL]
ReverseT3 334 [90-350 pg/mL] ** is this common??
Glucose,fasting 91 [65-99 mg/dL]
Insulin, fasting 2.3 [0.0-29.1 uIU/mL]
Cortisol, morning 15.6 [3.1-22.4 ug/dL]
So, what are optimal thyroid numbers anyway?
- 08-27-2008, 05:43 PM
08-27-2008, 06:17 PM
08-27-2008, 08:43 PM
08-27-2008, 10:37 PM
08-28-2008, 09:17 AM
08-29-2008, 11:07 PM
I belong to a thyroid group. They would say your RT3 is way too high. It should be low normal, not near the top like yours. Also your FreeT3 usually has to be top of range to feel good. You could add T3 only like Cytomel. If you ramp up to a high enough dose (75 mcg or more) your body shuts down production of it's own T4. T4 is what converts into RT3. When you have no T4 for 12 weeks, the RT3 goes away and you have full thyroid function. You track your T3 dose increases by temp graphing at www.drrind.com. I'm doing this now and it's working, at least for me. Just make sure your adrenals are OK. I don't remember if you posted your 24 hr 4x cortisol saliva test. More info at www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. All the best.
08-30-2008, 11:07 AM
08-30-2008, 11:18 AM
My rT3 is not near the top, it is in the middle of range.
it is in the middle of range
at 54.2% counting from the bottom.
IIRC I have seen someone saying that that ratio is ok up to about 10.
If you have more info please provide, what is the good ratio?
My results are based on
I did not took my morning ArmourThyroid dose before blood draw.
I use Cortef (10+5+5)
It made positive difference since I started taking it.
My body temp is at 36.C
pulse somewhat high at 66bpm
blood pressure 109/62
08-30-2008, 01:47 PM
Jan, at my group, they say the ratio of FreeT3 to ReverseT3 should be 20 or more. Mine is 13 and they advised me to go all T3 (Cytomel) to clear out the RT3. Armour is a great medicine but it does have T4. T4 produces RT3 in response to some other problem. In my case the other problem was adrenal insufficiency. When the adrenals are weak and not producing enough cortisol, a signal is sent to slow down the thyroid - because the adrenals can't handle much energy, they tell the thyroid to stop producing so much energy. The body does this by having more T4 convert to RT3 instead of T3. RT3 puts the brakes on the thyroid by entering your body's T3 receptors and blocking T3 from entering. This inhibits the normal thyroid functioning - effectively slowing it down. How much it slows down depends on the ratio of FT3 to RT3. The problem is, once the signal is sent it stays locked in - even if you solve the adrenal problem by using cortef (and I do, 35 mg per day on a 10-10-10-5 dosing schedule). The only way to reset the conversion of T4 to T3 is to clear out the RT3. This is done as explained to Lean Guy above by using T3 only until the body stops producing T4. If the body is not producing T4 and you aren't taking exogenous T4 (like Armour), then you can't produce RT3. At that point, the existing RT3 clears out of the body over a 12 week time frame. Then the signal to produce RT3 from T4 is turned off and your RT3 problems are gone. You can go back to Armour at that time if you wish or stay on T3 or perhaps ramp down and not need thyroid meds.
I was referred to these groups by Phil (PM Gamer) from this forum and Meso. Here are the links. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/
Thanks for all you do to help us here, Jan.
08-30-2008, 02:15 PM
Guys, it's ratio of FT3 over RT3.
Jan, I have you at about 15 and Lean Guy at about 10.
Both are below the minimum desired ratio of 20 to 1.
You have to move the decimal point to do the ratio.
LG is 3400 FT3 divided by 334 RT3 = approx 10 to 1 ratio.
Jan is 359 FT3 divided by 23 RT3 = approx 15 to 1 ratio.
08-30-2008, 09:07 PM
Will read this latter.
United States Patent: 7288257)
October 30, 2007
Diagnosis and treatment of human dormancy syndrome
New methods for diagnosis of human dormancy syndrome are provided. Human dormancy syndrome is characterized by elevated serum ratio of rT3/fT3 compared to a population of normal subjects from which subjects suffering from fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, obesity, dementias including Alzheimer's Disease and related dormancy conditions are excluded, and the presence of one or more findings related to reduced activity including torpor, chronic fatigue, insulin resistance, dementias, obesity and the like. Treatment of human dormancy syndrome is directed toward increasing fT3 levels or decreasing rT3 levels, or both, using pharmaceutical and/or behavioral methods. Other conditions that are associated with HDS can also be treated using T3 therapy, with or without specific psychological, behavioral or pharmaceutical therapies.
08-31-2008, 07:47 AM
I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
08-31-2008, 10:16 AM
as usual, devil is in details.
Before we can inteligently talk about ratio,
definition of ratio is need.
The example superone is quoting from anather board ratio of (FreeT3/RT3)
it is a reverse of what other people are talking,
he also (I think) have to multiply the whole thing by some factor to get numbers larger than 1.
Watching units, keeping them without change and watching what is divided by what,
my results are
RT3/FreeT3=23.1/3.59=6.4 (It is more than 4)
I could also change unints so top and bottom have the same,
(that is how it is ususally done),
but I am not going to do that,
because in article on human dormancy syndrome
that is how they did the ratio.
United States Patent: 7288257
As usual, more questions than answers.
Note that in human dormancy syndrome hi wants to get that ratio to be less than 4..
His definition of "human dormancy syndrome" is very broad.
Reverse T3 is a powerful "off signal" for cells producing changes in insulin receptors, lipoproteins, serotonin, melatonin, oxytocin, nitric oxide synthase and mitochondrial proteins. Meanwhile rT3 can be an "on signal" for nuclei that deepen the dormancy shift by increasing synthesis of prolactin, SP, and antidiuretic hormone (ADH).
Mr. S's blood work showed a "normal" thyroid pattern with all values within the normal range: TSH=2.90 (0.34-5.60 uIU/mL), free T4=1.0 (0.6-1.6 ng/dL), free T3=2.43 (1.45-3.48 pg/dL), reverse T3 12 (10-24 ng/dL). The ratio of rT3/fr3=4.94.
Slow-release T3 instead of Cytomel (instant release) was used for this study to reduce the potential for side effects. The T3 was compounded with methylcellulose to delay absorption and the initial dose was 7.5 ug BID and was well tolerated. His dose was increased to 15 ug BID the following week. His pulse and blood pressure remained stable, his body temperature measured by oral digital thermometer was often low at 95 degrees.
This was a significant improvement. His blood work was repeated at his 3 week follow up visit while taking 15 ug BID. His results were all in range: TSH 2.73, fT4 0.6, fT3 2.64, rT3 12, and his ratio of rT3/fT3=4.55 (7.8% decrease/improvement in ratio). His dose of T3 was increased to 22.5 ug AM and 15 ug PM
It appears that in case of non-specific problems, it may be helpfull to give a try to clearing off RT3 using (Slow-release T3).
08-31-2008, 05:56 PM
Jan, I'm trying to learn this stuff myself and found this statement about the ratio.
Reverse T3 is the best measurement of tissue thyroid levels
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 2005; 90(12):6403–6409
Thyroid Hormone Concentrations, Disease, Physical Function and Mortality in Elderly Men
Annewieke W. van den Beld, Theo J. Visser, Richard A. Feelders, Diederick E. Grobbee, and Steven W. J. Lamberts Department of Internal
This study of 403 men investigated the association between TSH, T4, free T4, T3, TBG and reverse T3 (rT3) and parameters of physical functioning. This study demonstrates that TSH and/or T4 levels are poor indicators of tissue thyroid levels and thus, in a large percentage of patients, cannot be used to determine whether a person is euthyroid (normal thyroid levels) at the tissue level. In fact, T4 levels had a negative correlation with tissue thyroid levels (higher T4 levels were associ*ated with decreased peripheral conversion of T4, low T3 levels and high rT3). This study demonstrates that rT3 inversely correlates with physical performance scores and that the T3/rT3 ratio is currently the best indicator of tissue levels of thyroid.
You can read the rest of this at this link.
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