HCG...is it time to quit? - AnabolicMinds.com

HCG...is it time to quit?

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    HCG...is it time to quit?


    I've been using HCG currently for 2 weeks. The first week was 350 iu EOD. 2nd week at 500 iu EOD. Can't really tell a difference. Concurrently I'm using Adex E3D. I'm a believer in if something is not working, then discontinue usage. Therefore, I'm contemplating just quitting since I've only been on it for a short time.

    I've pondered trying a larger dose (i.e. 1500-2000 ius) a few times to see if that's has any noticeable effect. I welcome any opinions..

    BTW, I've been diagnosed as secondary. And several of my metabolites (i.e. DHT, DHEA, androstendione, etc.) are in the higher range. TIA

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    First of all, 2 weeks is not long enough to tell, especially at that dose. 2nd of all, that dose is what a maintenance dose of hcg looks like while on test injections. It is not a TRT dose, not even close.

    If all you're trying is HCG at that dose, you're not going to notice much of anything if basing it off 'feeling'.

    Get bloodwork in 2 months. But I would do more like 1000iu's E3D for that time before testing.

    What's your pre-hcg numbers like?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    First of all, 2 weeks is not long enough to tell, especially at that dose. 2nd of all, that dose is what a maintenance dose of hcg looks like while on test injections. It is not a TRT dose, not even close.

    If all you're trying is HCG at that dose, you're not going to notice much of anything if basing it off 'feeling'.

    Get bloodwork in 2 months. But I would do more like 1000iu's E3D for that time before testing.

    What's your pre-hcg numbers like?

    My numbers (pre-hcg) don't make a lot of sense. Testing done by Rhein Labs so should be valid. I'll give a brief summary b/c I don't have results in front of me.

    Testosterone 19 (45-85)
    Androstenedione 83 (0-50)
    DHT 12 (0-13)

    This is all that I can remember right now. Estrogens (E1-E2-E3) were low. And there were several other testosterone metabolites/derivatives that were in upper range. As mentioned before, numbers don't make a lot of sense. Androstenedione which is direct precursor to T is nearly double the reference range????

    I believe I will re-test in about 2-3 weeks.

    The dosing schedule/example you gave is probably more appropriate. And more in line with those who have had success with HCG mono-therapy.
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    I'm sure other people will chime in.

    I'm wondering what your stress levels are like, and your cortisol levels. You should post the results of the Rheins test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenxtgrt1 View Post
    I've been using HCG currently for 2 weeks. The first week was 350 iu EOD. 2nd week at 500 iu EOD. Can't really tell a difference. Concurrently I'm using Adex E3D. I'm a believer in if something is not working, then discontinue usage. Therefore, I'm contemplating just quitting since I've only been on it for a short time.

    I've pondered trying a larger dose (i.e. 1500-2000 ius) a few times to see if that's has any noticeable effect. I welcome any opinions..

    BTW, I've been diagnosed as secondary. And several of my metabolites (i.e. DHT, DHEA, androstendione, etc.) are in the higher range. TIA

    Try at least 1500 IUs E3D, and test in six weeks. You will know if you need more or less by the way you respond.
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    As soon as I get a chance, I will post results of Rhein


    Colkurtz...do you use Adex along with your HCG routine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenxtgrt1 View Post
    As soon as I get a chance, I will post results of Rhein


    Colkurtz...do you use Adex along with your HCG routine?
    Yes I do. I had been taking .5 mg eod, now I'm on .5 E3D along with my injection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colkurtz_spf View Post
    Yes I do. I had been taking .5 mg eod, now I'm on .5 E3D along with my injection.
    If I go E3D route, I believe I will do the same. It seems to have a more positive effect when I take HCG and Adex on same day. In looking back at my calender, the last time I doubled up I had strong morning wood the next day.



    Here's more of Rhein Labwork (based on 30 days Adex only):

    Estrone (E1) 2.7 (3-12)
    Estradiol (E2) 0.9 (0-7.0)
    Estriol (E3) 1.8 (1-16)
    Test 19 (45-85)
    Androstenedione 83 (0-50)
    DHT 12 (0-13)
    DHEA 1155 (5-1476)
    Androstenetriol (5-AT) 644 (42-710)
    Cortisol 150 (35-168)

    There are a lot of other items included from labwork. Listed above are more or less the highlights.

    Here's what makes the situation even stranger. I'm performing at a very high level athletically right now. And I can build muscle fairly easy. Although I do have some fatty areas (which I believe to be related to hormonal issues). Energy levels are top notch. My problems are mainly sex drive and erection quality which is reflected by low T.

    I believe Androstenedione either converts to estrogen or Testosterone. Apparently it's not going to E, so why isn't it going to T..
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    you're going too heavy on the adex...you've almost eradicated your e-levels...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    you're going too heavy on the adex...you've almost eradicated your e-levels...
    Not true its the ratio that matters more and in his case it is sufficent.
    I am not a medical Dr, please keep in mind that this answer is for information purposes only, and is not intended to diagnose, treat or replace sound medical advice from your physician or health care provider.
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    Estradiol (E2) 0.9 (0-7.0)

    Test 19 (45-85)

    ============================== ========
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gutterpump
    you're going too heavy on the adex...you've almost eradicated your e-levels...


    Quote Originally Posted by The Matrix View Post
    Not true its the ratio that matters more and in his case it is sufficent.
    I would appreciate more explanations about this ratio.
    ============================== ===============
    My self, looking at the E2 levels I would stop using Arimidex.
    What is your current Arimidex (average weekly) dose?

    I would also listen to colkurtz_spf
    and get 1500 IUs E3D (important to use E3D, per colkurtz_spf)
    if you are hoping to get testosterone via stimulating testis.
    Current 500iu EOD is over the replacement dose (306iu EOD),
    so you already know that your testis are less than 100%
    .
    .
    500iu EOD=1750iu/week
    1500iu E3D=3500iu/week
    2000iu E3D=4667iu/week
    .
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Estradiol (E2) 0.9 (0-7.0)

    Test 19 (45-85)

    ============================== ========
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gutterpump
    you're going too heavy on the adex...you've almost eradicated your e-levels...




    I would appreciate more explanations about this ratio.
    ============================== ===============
    My self, looking at the E2 levels I would stop using Arimidex.
    What is your current Arimidex (average weekly) dose?

    I would also listen to colkurtz_spf
    and get 1500 IUs E3D (important to use E3D, per colkurtz_spf)
    if you are hoping to get testosterone via stimulating testis.
    Current 500iu EOD is over the replacement dose (306iu EOD),
    so you already know that your testis are less than 100%
    .
    .
    500iu EOD=1750iu/week
    1500iu E3D=3500iu/week
    2000iu E3D=4667iu/week
    .
    .

    Testes aren't 100% but should be fairly close. I believe the problem lies elsewhere.

    I was on HCG a couple of months ago for 30 days. Did Rhein thereafter, Rhein labwork indicated all estrogens were sky high. Don't have labwork to verify, but I believe estrogen was also high before HCG. I then began Adex only (E3D).

    First go-around w/ HCG was good first 2 wks or so. Then nothing. I believe estrogen shot up. Adex-only therapy was highly effective as it brought numbers way down. With that being the case, I believe HCG + Adex can be highly effective. Just have to find that "sweet spot".

    Without a doubt I need Adex. Just need to find the right dosing schedule, which can also be said for HCG. I believe I will re-test in 2-3 wks.
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