Hcg or Clomid monotherapy?
- 08-20-2008, 08:46 AM
Hcg or Clomid monotherapy?
I have low testosterone and all the symptoms. Here are my levels if you are interested
I think I am secondary and have been told my levels point in that direction. I want to try something like hcg instead of using test. I have a few questions though. Do I have to take a serm or ai with it? How much does it cost and would insurance cover it? I am within range on all my levels except my prolactin. I have lots of symptoms of low t so can I be diagnosed with hypogonadism so my insurance will cover it? Does Hcg increase Fsh or lh? or does it replace it? I see my endo again in a few weeks and I really want to be ready to talk to him seriously about trying some kind of treatment. Please help this is not just a troll. Quality of life seems to be lessening no matter what healthy changes I make.
Thanks in advance.
- 08-20-2008, 09:09 AM
08-20-2008, 04:40 PM
yah it replaces lh thus inhibiting your own natural production of lh. Your prolactin is out of range. This could be causing the testosterone supression.
08-20-2008, 05:09 PM
In one session I fixed my muscle aches (behaving differently),anxiety,gone. I stopped taking test shots.I dont feel any low test symptoms. Only thing i need to gain my weight and muscle back.
08-20-2008, 08:52 PM
08-20-2008, 09:00 PM
08-20-2008, 09:06 PM
08-21-2008, 10:39 AM
Few minutes ago I have seen somebody who is not responding to T-gel, noting his low LH & FSH numbers and hoping that he is secondary.
LH & FSH analysis are not valid (and should not be done) when one is supplementing with T.
08-21-2008, 11:17 AM
08-21-2008, 11:45 AM
08-21-2008, 11:58 AM
Dhea(NL) 458ng/DL Ref range142-1410
Testosterone, total (DSL) 346Ng/DL Ref range 190-1037
Estradiol (DSL) 32 PG/ML None given
Cortisol 14.8 Ug/DL None given
I retested a month ago
FSH 5.7 Miu/ml Ref range 1.3-19.3
Lh 3.7 Miu/ml Ref range 1.2-8.6
Total testosterone 230 ng/dl Ref range 190-1037
Free testosterone 51.3pg/ml Ref range 35- 155
Shbg 12 nmol/l Ref range 7-49
Prolactin 15.7 ng/ml Ref range 2.6-13.1
Estradiol 55 pg/ml Ref range <207 (they changed the method of testing to siemens method)
Please keep in mind I just turned 26 years old and these were taken when i was 25. I have never used any AAS or any external hormones. Estradiol is high and prolactin is out of range. Endo said estradiol is fine and the prolactin might be out of range because I touch my gyno too much? I am not a doctor but that sounds kinda dumb. Will my insurance cover it if I am still "within range"? My endo says there is nothing wrong with my numbers despite my symptoms. Can I still be diagnosed with hypogonadism if my levels are "within range"?
08-21-2008, 03:46 PM
You need to find out more about your condition before you treat it. Don't rule out a primary condition or even a restart. You don't necessarily need steroids to disrupt your HPTA. I've heard nothing but complaints about endos from people in this forum. You may want to take this to a urologist - one who is willing to work with you. Numbers aside, your most important point is how you feel.
08-21-2008, 11:38 PM
08-22-2008, 09:16 AM
Get the tests done! Clomid is a good way to test your condition. If you're secondary you will respond well. Try it for 8 weeks and see what happens. If you respond take a month off and retest. You might reset your HPTA. If not HCG will be the way to go. If you don't respond you'll need exogenous testosterone.
I can see you're a big guy. Is it all muscle? Fat can contribute to high estrogen levels - it likes to live there. While on clomid you can start a diet. I've purchased a few really good plans. If you're interested PM me. You can also research diet and testosterone. I would try everything before HRT. Hopefully your endo will prescribe clomid - if not you should find a good urologist, but only after you test. It's wise to get that covered.
08-22-2008, 08:59 PM
No sir sad to say it is mostly fat. I do have muscles and they are visible, but I have "problem" areas. Please don't get me wrong either I realize this may have been the cause of all of this and I realize it is my fault. I never knew all these things could happen ed, gyno etc... Anyway I quit smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, started exercising, and dieting. Here is my routine.
My workout routine is:
Weight training complete body workout 5 times a week
Cardio Mountain biking 45 min-1hr 5 times a week
2 days off rest every week
Diet (without going into to much detail)
8:00 Muscle milk lite protein shake with water
10:00 1 cup oatmeal 2 pack equal 1/2 cup 3%milk 1 multivitamin, fish oil capsule
12:00 Chicken breast 8-10 oz and potato with a vegetable, fish oil capsule
5:00 Muscle milk lite protein shake with water
8:00 Chicken breast 8-10 oz and potato with a vegetable, fish oil capsule
10:00 1 TBSP virgin coconut oil, 1/2 cup peanuts, and a zma
I try to follow this and most of the time I do. I started 2 months ago and feel a little better. My gains are noticeable I am slimming down a bit and muscles are more defined. I am going to ask about the clomid thing and if he says no I will look for another doctor. If he says no though I am going to wait at least 3 to 4 months to get in better shape. If he gives it to me I will run it like you suggested, and if when I retest it goes back down I will request hcg. Can you conceive while on clomid or do you have to run it first? My endo is always talking about studies. Do you know of any that would help me state my case regarding using hcg instead of t?
08-24-2008, 11:01 AM
08-24-2008, 05:41 PM
Specially the chart, then the red lined part of the chart.
I think that there is no need to stop TRT, if one is on it.
Dr John quotes people conceiving while on his T+hcg TRT.
His most basic protocol is a T once/week and 250iu HCG two days before Tshot.
There is also, most likely, no need to try clomid (unless attempt is making for a HPTA restrart).
Just go for the HCG and try to conceve.
If not, add HMG as recomended on chart.
Fertility docs do not care if one gets gyno or have other E2 problems, so hi is not even addressing E2 in the article.
For us, worrying about this things, I would make attempt at managing E2.
Managing e2, by using less than 3x 2000iu HCG/week, also adding Arimidex to the mix.
08-24-2008, 06:18 PM
If you have group insurance ie through your job. Your insurance should cover a percentage of anything if it is perscribed by a doctor. Call your insurance company and check on things. It doesn't have to be diagnosed if perscribed by doc. I would recommend Dr. Crisler because it doesn't sound like your endo is ever going to do anything. check allthingsmale.com you really have to push hard to get things better with condition.
08-24-2008, 07:52 PM
08-24-2008, 09:10 PM
08-24-2008, 09:17 PM
08-24-2008, 09:24 PM
Thanks for the reply. I wish I could see Dr. Crisler, but it is almost impossible. Just to travel to see him would cost at least a couple grand. I live very far away. I need to find someone closer. I wonder if insurance covers foreign doctors. I live near the philippines and I was wondering if I go there and get prescriptions if it would be honored here in the U.S.. I live in a US territory. What I mean is if you want to see a specialist you need a referal from your GP. What if you see a doctor without the referal and get prescribed something. Will insurance cover the medication if you don't follow the specified protocol?
08-24-2008, 09:27 PM
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