1st visit coming up. Do I mention AAS use?
- 08-07-2008, 05:49 PM
1st visit coming up. Do I mention AAS use?
Hi. I'm 23 years old. For the last several years, I have suffered from depression, fatigue, low sex drive, erectile dysfunction, and difficulty gaining muscle. All this in spite of the fact that I eat healthy, exercise regularly, and don't overdo alcohol/nicotine/caffeine or anything like that.
Then, I ran my first cycle in order to gain some muscle. At the time I was unaware of the condition of low T or hypogonadism. To my amazement, all my symptoms disappeared. I was no longer depressed, feeling great, had plenty of energy, sex drive like an animal, solid wood, and I gained muscle.
That was three months ago. Now I'm back to feeling like crap and all the symptoms have returned. I was just about to seek professional help for my depression when I came across info on low testosterone. The symptoms fit, and they went away when I was on cycle, so obviously I want to get checked out for low T.
I'm going in for an appointment next week and I'm going to get tested. My question is this: should I mention my one-time use of AAS to the doctor?
- 08-07-2008, 07:43 PM
Who are you seeing?
Hopefully not an endocrinologist. While it may seem like they would be the right choice, 95% of them have either been bought by big pharma, are complete morons, or both.
- 08-07-2008, 07:58 PM
08-07-2008, 08:54 PM
Interested. Same boat as you minus the AAS and I am 26. Please continue to post after you see that doctor. I am seeing an endocrinologist and he is a tool. Limited on doctors where I live.
08-07-2008, 09:05 PM
08-07-2008, 09:31 PM
Going to see one more DR locally monday, and if not i am going to pony up the cash and go see Dr. John
08-07-2008, 09:43 PM
I would not tell him on initial visit no. I'd plan to talk to him later about it, but since the symptoms were there pre-cycle as well, save it for a later visit, after you are comfortable and confident in staying with him
08-07-2008, 10:11 PM
So far the freakin endo is the same. I told him all my symptoms and he told me your levels are in range loose weight. WUUUUTTT? Gyno, ed, fatigue..... F your levels treat me. He wants me to retest in a month so we'll see how that goes. If it comes back low again and he won't treat me i am gonna dump him. Your lucky you live in the states and can see Dr. John. I live in the pacific.
08-09-2008, 11:55 PM
08-10-2008, 04:46 AM
I am also in cali and wanted to ask about docs out here fot trt or hrt,
keep us informed ... i'd like to see what happends, if its cool, then i may go see the guy too
08-10-2008, 05:46 AM
Wow funny that you mention these things. I also did a hepatic profile? I think that is what it was to check glucose and stuff so I had to fast 10 or 12 hours before the test. And I have a real problem with getting good sleep. Around the time of my last test I was stressed and hoping that things would level out. I went to sleep about 3 am and and woke up at like 8:30 am. I cannot help but stress out about the test. I don't want to get TRT I just want to try something like tamoxifen or some kind of AI for a little while. It might help delay the gyno while I am trying to loose weight and get healthy. By the way I have never done AAS. I just find those who have to be very knowledgeable on the subject.
08-10-2008, 09:20 AM
08-10-2008, 09:29 AM
08-10-2008, 09:53 AM
If you want to get a jumpstart on this as a part of a weight loss program, you could try using Activate Xtreme and one of the AIs (6-oxo, atd, some of the combo ones like Formadrol Extreme, or possibly even Rebound Reloaded/Hyperdrolx2/Cissusdrol) with it. I had gone the "other route" and did a cycle of 1-T for 9 weeks with the last 3 weeks adding superdrol. I started at about 199lbs at 25% bf and test levels around 240, and ended the cycle at 203 at around 19% bf with over an inch lost on waist and after PCT my test levels were around 650.... I had reached a low of 189 during the cycle and decided to gain some of it back with the superdrol at the end. So i'd say your doctor has a point about dropping a bunch of fat helping.
Also, what about diet? do you get in enough healthy fats or as part of trying to loose fat are you falling prey to the dieticians who have no clue and reducing your fat intake too low?
08-10-2008, 02:05 PM
08-10-2008, 03:00 PM
oh to add to my above, my estrogen was at 64 (above top of scale) before the cycle, and was 37 after. ah and I was wrong on the test #s too (looking at the report now) was 289 before, 782 after. So dropping 12-15lbs of fat and adding some muscle made QUITE a significant difference
08-10-2008, 09:19 PM
My workout routine is:
Weight training complete body workout 5 times a week
Cardio Mountain biking 45 min-1hr 5 times a week
2 days off rest
Diet (without going into to much detail)
8:00 Muscle milk lite protein shake with water
10:00 1 cup oatmeal 2 pack equal 1/2 cup 3%milk 1 multivitamin
12:00 Chicken breast 8-10 oz and potato with a vegetable
5:00 Muscle milk lite protein shake with water
8:00 Chicken breast 8-10 oz and potato with a vegetable
10:00 1 TBSP virgin coconut oil, 1/2 peanuts I am going to add a zma soon
This is basically what I follow I am not perfect so not always, but this is a huge change compared to my diet before. I have been making gains with this. I am slimming down a little and my muscles are getting a little bigger. It has been almost two months.
Are these safe? I mean since my levels are already messed up. I am thinking of trying either 6-oxo or Stoked which have both been suggested a couple of times. Are there long term effects of these products or do you think they are safe to use? You said you test went up after you did a cycle, but isn't it possible it was raised by your PCT?If you want to get a jumpstart on this as a part of a weight loss program, you could try using Activate Xtreme and one of the AIs (6-oxo, atd, some of the combo ones like Formadrol Extreme, or possibly even Rebound Reloaded/Hyperdrolx2/Cissusdrol) with it. I had gone the "other route" and did a cycle of 1-T for 9 weeks with the last 3 weeks adding superdrol. I started at about 199lbs at 25% bf and test levels around 240, and ended the cycle at 203 at around 19% bf with over an inch lost on waist and after PCT my test levels were around 650.... I had reached a low of 189 during the cycle and decided to gain some of it back with the superdrol at the end. So i'd say your doctor has a point about dropping a bunch of fat helping.
08-10-2008, 09:28 PM
08-10-2008, 09:58 PM
I got my second test a month after PCT ended, so any short term improvement from the PCT itself should have faded by that time, and in that month I used nothing testosterone effecting. It was a purposeful experiment. Also for my PCT I only used Sustain Alpha and Toco8.
08-10-2008, 10:29 PM
Thanks for the replies. I've decided that I won't mention my AAS use to him on the first visit. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
08-11-2008, 10:37 AM
Let him know.
08-11-2008, 11:08 AM
08-11-2008, 12:39 PM
can a restart be performed, say, three years after the mismanaged cycle? I did a 3-week cycle of m1t at 19, used tamoxifen for pct for 3 weeks and my levels have been around 300 since i began testing them about a year and a half ago. I always suspected that i was shut down completely from the
m1t and even though i used pct, i never recovered.
can a restart be beneficial at this stage? i don't want to necesarrily go on hrt at this age either, though my endo was open to it if i really wanted to since my levels were hypogonadal at times.
08-11-2008, 12:47 PM
its possible that it will, some also suggest doing another cycle to crash test totally, and then do a serious PCT and see if it bounces back better.
08-11-2008, 01:00 PM
is there also a possibility that another cycle could cause further problems rather than help? I've heard of that strategy. How long after a running a cycle and full post cycle therapy do you wait before testing your levels again to see if they are stable. A few weeks after pct?
I'm overweight right now due to the low energy and poor metabolism that comes with low test over the last 2 years. I don't even know if its smart to run a cycle while im trying to lose weight (currently down to 216 at 5"10 after a high of 234 last summer). I thought i should be thin before i put on mass with AAS again or maybe i should just run something as a weird fatman's cutting cycle and not lift or eat for bulk - just minimize muscle loss while losing weight.
08-11-2008, 01:12 PM
it could make it worse, there is that risk. i'd say retesting at least a month after the end of PCT would be best. There are plenty of cutting cycles you could run, gaining or loosing fat is more about the diet really. Some of the more common cutting cycles would be halodrol or havoc/epistane.
08-11-2008, 01:20 PM
I know there a million threads on this and there was a time last year when i searched and read through them but i'll just ask anyway how the havoc is on the liver, hpta, and health in general compared to injectable test or other injectables, because if i could jump in a time machine and sub some
test enth for the m1t id do it in a heartbeat. that stuff was toxic death.
08-11-2008, 01:23 PM
its better than m1t, worse than test enan mildly suppressive but tends to keep libido high on cycle, light lipid/liver effect. Really the test enan would be better
08-11-2008, 01:32 PM
the biggest concern for me is lethargy. im so tired from low T that i couldnt handle any lethargy side effects. Stims make me uncomfortable as well. if the OP is still here viewing i wonder if he gets the brain fog symptoms of low T that i do. Low test is dangerous!
At the beggining of this saga, i suffered from depression do to extreme supression. I had a bad bout of mono which then drove my levels even lower (mono being capable of doing that on its own) I was so upset all the time that i ended up drinking a ton and eating terrible fatty foods to ease my pain. It was like negative self medication. Then i realized that even with low test, i still felt better if i started replacing the fatty foods with better foods, added fish oils, and excersized more.
Now i know the best way to treat low test depression is with a good diet and excercise regimen. I'm still depressed a lot of the time. I still have low energy. I still dont feel clear headed (brain fog) But i'm functioning. And some of the weight has come off. my natural weight at 5"10 was around 185. I've been hesistent to do anything hormonal again (including HRT) until i get below 200 pounds (if possible) to see how i feel energy-wise and mentally with some of the weight off.
08-11-2008, 08:41 PM
I have a question and I am a noob so bear with me. If you can jump start your system after a cycle, how come your cannot jumpstart your system when you are overweight? I mean I am trying to lose weight. It is probably gonna take me a year and a half or two to get rid of the fat. So do I have to feel like crap until then? I have gyno, ed, fatigue...... I am only 26 years old. Wouldn't the restart help me loose weight and get my HTPA back in order?
08-11-2008, 09:13 PM
not by as much and then the jumpstart will fade right back out again. the idea is that with the PCT you are jumpstarting production that was stopped due to short term intake of external hormones. So when you stop taking those in, and do the jumpstart on the HTPA you are kicking it back towards normal level for your bodily conditions. Right now your normal level is where you are at....
So moreso than trying some of the heavier things, really just some 6-oxo if you want to make sure libido stays high, or ATD if you dont care to reduce estrogen, and the nutraplanet divanex caps to lower SHBG. And maybe if you are feeling extra frisky and dont mind smelling like maple syrup, some fenugreek or testofen to raise LH.
Really for fat loss, lowering estrogen will help the most. but the other stuff may help how you feel
08-11-2008, 09:36 PM
08-11-2008, 09:40 PM
I think EASYEJL is basically right about the way it works with a restart and why it helps to get people who've used AAS to get back to normal levels.
As for lowering E to reduce fat - - i'm not sure what the effects of taking aromatase inhibitors or SERMS would be for someone looking to lose weight.
08-11-2008, 09:44 PM
by itself nothing, but I think that with a higher estrogen level you tend to hold fat more and your body is a little more inclined to burn muscle under caloric restriction.
08-12-2008, 02:00 AM
To the Op sorry for hijacking the thread. I hope you still post the results of your visit.
I am following the diet and workout routine previously posted. I am adding in vitamin world omega fish oil capsules zinc free after each 3 main meals, and I am adding a Precision Engeneered ZMA which I am only going to take before bed every night with 1 tablespoon of virgin coconut oil. I am also adding in 1 tablespoon of natty pb in the morning. I am also taking a one a day multivitamin in the morning everyday with second meal. I am going to continue this for a month and then I am going to try throwing in 6oxo and changing from muscle milk lite to Optimum casein (morning) and whey (night before workout). I mean sh*t if this doesn't work with weight loss and muscle gain I guess I am s crewed. I am not against HRT just that my wife wants to have kids and the $$$. She might be pregnant now so one down maybe. I just want to feel normal again. Oh yeah and I want to be Alpha
08-12-2008, 08:00 AM
that sounds good all around then just keep an eye on total calories, use a scale or at least measuring cups/spoons if you can. PB in particular is sooooooo easy to go overboard on, and at 75~90 cals per tbsp it can add up fast.
I think in some ways my cycle was a waste of a anabolic cycle, but it did let me drop off signifcant amount of fat while gaining some muscle, so I guess a success. just reminded me of how horrible a shape I was in beforehand. I still dont do enough iin terms of heavy squats and deadlifts, i'm going to start making that a regular permanent part of my workouts.
08-12-2008, 12:12 PM
Ok, I'm gonna have to reel this thread back in and get back to the topic.
08-12-2008, 12:18 PM
mine is half and half do the initial visit, get tested, see how the conversation goes and them potentially tell him on your second visit after test results when you talk about treatments
08-12-2008, 01:27 PM
Be sure to get back with us here about the treatment options he recommends. There's a lot of experience dealing with the variety of things that docs want to give us to correct hormone imbalances. In fact, very few docs are even aware of the kind of supplements (including research chems) that can change your life for the better when properly used.
Easy, you weigh a pound more than me you fat %$#@.
08-12-2008, 01:53 PM
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