To Stack Or Not To Stack

[corsaking]

Not sure where to put this thread, but here goes.

Im currently receiving test undeconate for Test replacement therapy and have done for some time, PCT is not an issue because the treatment is on going.

What i am considering is to find a prohormone to stack it with,

Im looking for something thats highly anabolic rather than androgenic as the test already falls into this catergory .

Any suggestions please

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Not sure where to put this thread, but here goes.

Im currently receiving test undeconate for Test replacement therapy and have done for some time, PCT is not an issue because the treatment is on going.

What i am considering is to find a prohormone to stack it with,

Im looking for something thats highly anabolic rather than androgenic as the test already falls into this catergory .

Any suggestions please

What were the results of your last labs?

 

[corsaking]

What were the results of your last labs?

Being from the UK , I get the impression that the tests are not as thorough as those in the USA.It could be that with our health service being free , we have to go along with the doctor and you carnt give the impression that you know more about test than he /she does eg conversion to estrogen , how much is free and how much is total etc.So we have to take what is offered. All i can tell you is that at the end of 11 weeks , (injected every 11 weeks) my test reading was 22 nmol/l. the range being 11 and 30 nmol/l. Liver normal, PSA low and cholestrol low.Estrogen is not an issue unless you suspect theres a problem so no test was done.
Now in the 2 or more years ive been having this treatment , my test has never been higher at the end of an 11 week cycle.after all you would expect it to gradually decline to the lower end of the scale. In the 11 week period i was running a course of cissus -drol and wonder if this contributed to the high reading

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Being from the UK , I get the impression that the tests are not as thorough as those in the USA.It could be that with our health service being free , we have to go along with the doctor and you carnt give the impression that you know more about test than he /she does eg conversion to estrogen , how much is free and how much is total etc.So we have to take what is offered. All i can tell you is that at the end of 11 weeks , (injected every 11 weeks) my test reading was 22 nmol/l. the range being 11 and 30 nmol/l. Liver normal, PSA low and cholestrol low.Estrogen is not an issue unless you suspect theres a problem so no test was done.
Now in the 2 or more years ive been having this treatment , my test has never been higher at the end of an 11 week cycle.after all you would expect it to gradually decline to the lower end of the scale. In the 11 week period i was running a course of cissus -drol and wonder if this contributed to the high reading

Check out JanSz. I believe he's posted information on testing in Europe, and his recommended panels. First you'll need to be off of everything for a few months to establish your baselines. Then you'll need to determine if you're condition is primary or secondary. Secondary people respond well to HCG. In my opinion HRT and OTC pro-hormones don't mix. I'd also be very careful of herbal test boosters. They have a tendency to raise estrogen levels after prolonged use.

 

[corsaking]

Check out JanSz. I believe he's posted information on testing in Europe, and his recommended panels. First you'll need to be off of everything for a few months to establish your baselines. Then you'll need to determine if you're condition is primary or secondary. Secondary people respond well to HCG. In my opinion HRT and OTC pro-hormones don't mix. I'd also be very careful of herbal test boosters. They have a tendency to raise estrogen levels after prolonged use.

What would you class Cissus-drol as? I was taking it for the anti estrogen ingredient 6-bromo and divinal.

How do I find posts from JanSz?

 

[Beau]

[/B]

What would you class Cissus-drol as? I was taking it for the anti estrogen ingredient 6-bromo and divinal.

How do I find posts from JanSz?

Use the Search function; then click on "Advanced Serach; look him up by inputting his user name; and then hit Search. That will give you all of his posts, in chrono order.

Good luck.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

[/B]

What would you class Cissus-drol as? I was taking it for the anti estrogen ingredient 6-bromo and divinal.

How do I find posts from JanSz?

Cissus is fine. There is no need to take an AI with Cissus. I don't know what is in Cissus-drol. I imagine it's either an herb or PH. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is one link to JanSz http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jan-s-bloodtest.html

 

[corsaking]

Cissus is fine. There is no need to take an AI with Cissus. I don't know what is in Cissus-drol. I imagine it's either an herb or PH. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is one link to JanSz http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jan-s-bloodtest.html

Thanks for your help in this As for Cissus-drol , the ingredients are cissus,DVTHF,FORSKOLIN extracts and 6-bromodione in that order. Each capsule is 375 mg .serving size 1 cap x 3 per day

 

[colkurtz_spf]

Thanks for your help in this As for Cissus-drol , the ingredients are cissus,DVTHF,FORSKOLIN extracts and 6-bromodione in that order. Each capsule is 375 mg .serving size 1 cap x 3 per day

There's nothing wrong with it. I used activate which has similar properties when I took a break from HRT. I ran into an estrogen problem 8 weeks out even though I was on Arimidex. The first six weeks my FT shot up. I don't see any reason for taking Cissus-drol or any other natural test booster while on exogenous test. It doesn't make sense. I do like Cissus though. It's good for joints and recovery, and although it has anabolic properties, it's non-androgenic.

 

[corsaking]

Ok thanks , From what you are saying , its better to look for other supplements that have anabolic properties that work on a different route than test or prohormones.After all I m getting the daddy of them all .Maybe something like Beta Ecdysterone or 5-Methyl-7-Methoxy Isoflavones or Creatine?

 

[Gutterpump]

You're looking to do a short blast cycle while on TRT?
One of the safest prohormones would be epistane, especially since it acts as an AI as well. Not that I'm recommending anything though...but epistane is pretty mild while being quite anabolic.

 

[corsaking]

You're looking to do a short blast cycle while on TRT?
One of the safest prohormones would be epistane, especially since it acts as an AI as well. Not that I'm recommending anything though...but epistane is pretty mild while being quite anabolic.

Its been quite an interesting few years .When I told my training ptner that i was going to get test, we both thought it would be the icing on the cake and expected great things from it in bodybuilding terms .However thats just not the case, I admit i do feel a lot lot better on trt and i am toned .So i can see why some bodybuilders go to extremes and say have a sustanon injection every week , when its designed to be taken every 4 . So although some people say a particular prohormone or designer steroid made them gain pounds I do sometimes wonder .Simply because when you do look at cycles for steroids , the amounts to be taken exceed the recommended intake of a prohormone /designer steroid.So you see i see it from a different perspective .So while some guys might wish to be in my shoes and have testosterone legally expecting theyre going to pack on muscle, its just not the case .Consequently it may be that our expectations from prohormones might just be a little too high

 

[Gutterpump]

TRT (test) should be administered at least once a week as well. I would hope you're not going 4 weeks between shots! That will set you up for a rollercoaster ride.

edit: sustanon is not a good option for trt. From what I've heard, it's not had the best results and feedback. Weekly or bi-weekly shots of test-cyp or test-e is the way to go for optimal trt.

 

[corsaking]

Hi Corsa,
I assume that you are getting Nebido ?
For how long have be receiving trt ?
I can't believe that you only need the shots every 11 weeks but that's good for you if you are. I'm having mine every 5 weeks to be in the range and feeling good. Anyway if you just started with trt give it time to get stable before doing any "adjustments". And for more info about Nebido's pros and cons, trt etc go to http://www.andropause.org.uk/newforum/forum_frameset.htm

Samppa

Hi been on trt for over 2 years now.How are you tweaking your own levels ? Are you taking any external supplements or not ? to get the best from it. Not sure whether to take a NH Supplement or just leave well alone. Having had a look at many supps out there the only one im confident with and have tried is CISSUS DROL .Other wise its gaspari nutrition size on. Any way it sems to be a mind field out there.

 

[OldGator]

Other wise its gaspari nutrition size on. Any way it sems to be a mind field out there.

"Size-On" is a great pre-workout drink - one of the best creatine supps out there IMO. Of course it is not a pro-hormone.

GutterPump's mention of epistane sounds reasonable. I agree with ColKurz that TRT and prohormones probably shouldn't be mixed, but the prospect is somewhat intriguing.

I started TRT about 8 months ago. Prior to that I did several cycles of prohormones (when thay were legal). As you noted Corsa, there is no comparison in the strength category. I've never approached the strength on TRT that I had while on a prohormone cycle. Of course TRT is a lifelong endeavor and I certainly feel good and am happy I've decided to go the TRT route. Still, I miss throwing those weights around like I did on 1-AD/4-AD.

Don't think I'd ever mix the two (TRT & PH's) however.

 

[Gutterpump]

Althought being on TRT certainly isn't comparible to being on a prohormone, I think there should definately be a large difference on the performance aspect of things compared to pre-TRT levels. Think of it as being primed at your top natural performance. With proper diet and training, there is a lot you can do. People shouldn't turn to steroids or prohormones if they think it's the only way to make gains. Look elsewhere, like at diet and training. At your peak natural testosterone levels, there should be no reason why you couldn't make a considerate amount of gains over a reasonable or even ongoing amount of time.

With that being said, if you do consider prohormones, I would think it would be much safer and predictable to just dose higher on your test for a certain amount of time, or stick to the traditional compounds. I wouldn't even think of touching anything until you've got good control over your TRT and have stable levels. Again though, not completely necessary just to make some gains if your test is already primed at the upper level.

Some supps I like are Man Clout, L-leucine, Xtend. Pretty good basic combination to keep your body fairly anabolic and keep strength up.

 

[corsaking]

Thanks for your input guys.Ill rule out prohormones and designer steroids.What about the herbal root. perhaps ALRI , AX or Generic Labz products to lower estrogen and free up test.Another thought came into my head was this. Could tribulus be used to compliment trt towards the end of the 11 week cycle say weeks 7 8 9 10 11 , as levels decline or would it be a waste of time?