If we started an association

LG Sciences

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Would you join?

This association would provide for it's members:

1) Hopefully reduced health care for both supplement company owners and individuals that wish to opt in...low cost health care is something everyone should have and I beleive that we could get an association together that would give it's members access to reduced healthcare for those that wish to buy it (there is strength in numbers for buying health care)

2) A lobby to provide a counter to all of the mis-information that is thrown towards sports supplements AND things like steroids. I don't support full legalization (mainly cuz it won't happen) but de-criminalization is certainly a good thing. Someone doing juice isn't anywhere near the cocaine and heroin addict and should be treated differently.

Just a thought...ideas?
 
pmiller383

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Sound like a couple of good ideas, I really like the idea of the lobby, it seems like sports supps are getting such a bad rap now, and i dont know if there is anyone out there really trying to clear that up.
 
3clipseGT

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I definately like this idea!
 
Aggravated

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Would you join?

This association would provide for it's members:

1) Hopefully reduced health care for both supplement company owners and individuals that wish to opt in...low cost health care is something everyone should have and I beleive that we could get an association together that would give it's members access to reduced healthcare for those that wish to buy it (there is strength in numbers for buying health care)

2) A lobby to provide a counter to all of the mis-information that is thrown towards sports supplements AND things like steroids. I don't support full legalization (mainly cuz it won't happen) but de-criminalization is certainly a good thing. Someone doing juice isn't anywhere near the cocaine and heroin addict and should be treated differently.

Just a thought...ideas?
I'm in man!
 
MuscleGuyinNY

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Count me in! It's sorta like a mediocre revolution for the supplement industry. I think all this bashing of supplements, including the bans, are bullsh!t. But, we do have the irresponsible users to partially blame for some of this. We really should try changing things around.

Unfortunately, I'm without healthcare until I start my job. Affordable, yet effective, healthcare sounds like an amazing idea.
 

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The association sounds like a great idea, if done properly. i would join in a heartbeat. there are many angles/approaches that are available to make this a truly successful lobby/organization. And I fully support any form of affordable health care.
 
LG Sciences

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I would need some help with the recruitment. If customers called on supplement companies to join, then it would be successful. A small lobby of even 20-30k (which is nothing for the industry) is all we really would need.
 
SilentBob187

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Would you join?

This association would provide for it's members:

1) Hopefully reduced health care for both supplement company owners and individuals that wish to opt in...low cost health care is something everyone should have and I beleive that we could get an association together that would give it's members access to reduced healthcare for those that wish to buy it (there is strength in numbers for buying health care)

2) A lobby to provide a counter to all of the mis-information that is thrown towards sports supplements AND things like steroids. I don't support full legalization (mainly cuz it won't happen) but de-criminalization is certainly a good thing. Someone doing juice isn't anywhere near the cocaine and heroin addict and should be treated differently.

Just a thought...ideas?
I like where your head's at. Keep us posted. I'm more interested in point 2 than 1, however point 1 is just as important to many. Would these be separate organizations or still too early in the brainstorming to know?
 
LG Sciences

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I am just brainstorming. It is important to have a good solid lobby. Along with a group that is fighting for sane laws. The criminalization of GH for one is crazy. Maybe illegal, but not criminalized. When will our country grow up and realize throwing more people in prison isn't the answer.

Also, the cheaper healthcare is for everyone who is interested. I think more people could benefit from this and it certainly doesn't hurt anything at all to have a pool of people that are buying healthcare.
 
SilentBob187

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I am just brainstorming. It is important to have a good solid lobby. Along with a group that is fighting for sane laws. The criminalization of GH for one is crazy. Maybe illegal, but not criminalized. When will our country grow up and realize throwing more people in prison isn't the answer.
Instead of illegal, perhaps restricted for private use? That way we can retain the relative purity of professional sports. Illegal just has bad connotations attributed to it.

But for starters ya gotta have a name.
hmmmm
The National Association of Sports Nutrition Awareness?
Sports Nutrition Enthusiasts for a Better America?
The Sports Nutrition Federation?

Maybe possibly getting to talking with some of those people that are fighting against The Codex or the strangle hold the FDA has over...everything?

The more I think about the healthcare idea, the better it sounds.
 
Gtarzan81

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I like this idea. Someone needs to stand up and provide some truth and clarity in this industry, and dispell myths, and have political force.
As things are now, a strong lobby may be the only way change comes about. Either that or nonviolent protest and boycotts. If it can free a nation(India), and open the eyes and hate of racism(MLK) then it can help in this situation if we show it for what it is. There is a marked difference between someone who does what many of us on here do, and that is take supplements for personal reasons. I'm sure there are studies done on those who take supplements, and workout regularly on their quality of life and rates of crimes comitted. I havent looked at it, but I'm sure the rates are very low.

I'm personally very tired of things being banned, and their being heat on the industry for the rest of us, because professional sports figures use things they should not be using. Unfortunately the Washington logic(a contradiction in terms) is to ban it outright, or put pressure on companes that make it because a few professionals cant handle it and seek an edge? The rest of us who would like to use such things in a safe, personal manner lose out.

The bottome line in my mind is this. Washington is slow. It was designed that way. If we, as a community band together, and create pressure, things CAN change. But without enough people moving in the same direction, with leadership, and a clear cause and goal, nothing will change.

I propose an alliance with BB.com to start petitions, protests, boycotts, and other tthings necessary to achieve our goals.
 
SilentBob187

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I like this idea. Someone needs to stand up and provide some truth and clarity in this industry, and dispell myths, and have political force.
As things are now, a strong lobby may be the only way change comes about. Either that or nonviolent protest and boycotts. If it can free a nation(India), and open the eyes and hate of racism(MLK) then it can help in this situation if we show it for what it is. There is a marked difference between someone who does what many of us on here do, and that is take supplements for personal reasons. I'm sure there are studies done on those who take supplements, and workout regularly on their quality of life and rates of crimes comitted. I havent looked at it, but I'm sure the rates are very low.

I'm personally very tired of things being banned, and their being heat on the industry for the rest of us, because professional sports figures use things they should not be using. Unfortunately the Washington logic(a contradiction in terms) is to ban it outright, or put pressure on companes that make it because a few professionals cant handle it and seek an edge? The rest of us who would like to use such things in a safe, personal manner lose out.

The bottome line in my mind is this. Washington is slow. It was designed that way. If we, as a community band together, and create pressure, things CAN change. But without enough people moving in the same direction, with leadership, and a clear cause and goal, nothing will change.

I propose an alliance with BB.com to start petitions, protests, boycotts, and other tthings necessary to achieve our goals.
:box:
Nicely put dude. I agree with you 100%

Million Muscle March?
 
LG Sciences

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I do think if we did this correctly, we could have a powerful voice that also helps people. Joining such an organization could benefit its members with buying preferences at many places, but healthcare is a good one. I am going to seriously consider it.
 
ShakesAllDay

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It seems like a good idea.

The supplement industry is always gettin' **** on by the ignorant.

But, what about some of these gray-market "supplements" aka designer steroids? Would this shine more light on them?
 
LG Sciences

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I think it would ultimately be something we would have to decide upon, but anything that isn't at least naturally occuring would be out. Listen, I know everyone thinks that they need sdrol to get big, but things like 1-AD were fine back in the day and it is the methyls that are ****ing up the industry. Any moron can become a methyl dealer and that is causing the issue. bb.com is selling a 50mg capsule 25mg superdrol and 25mg HD. Now, what happens when a kid takes 4 or those and has a few beers and dies? We are all ****ed...

I wouldn't go after the steroid dealers and shine a light on them, but we couldn't support and promote them either, since there is NOTHING legal about a 17aMethyl, 6-Bromo, 4-Chloro that is a shame, but it is what it is... I know it sounds hypocritical of me and in some ways it is, but when we released M1T, we took a chance and a risk. What's the risk for someone to release another Sdrol clone?
 
Whiplash

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I think it would ultimately be something we would have to decide upon, but anything that isn't at least naturally occuring would be out. Listen, I know everyone thinks that they need sdrol to get big, but things like 1-AD were fine back in the day and it is the methyls that are ****ing up the industry. Any moron can become a methyl dealer and that is causing the issue. bb.com is selling a 50mg capsule 25mg superdrol and 25mg HD. Now, what happens when a kid takes 4 or those and has a few beers and dies? We are all ****ed...

I wouldn't go after the steroid dealers and shine a light on them, but we couldn't support and promote them either, since there is NOTHING legal about a 17aMethyl, 6-Bromo, 4-Chloro that is a shame, but it is what it is... I know it sounds hypocritical of me and in some ways it is, but when we released M1T, we took a chance and a risk. What's the risk for someone to release another Sdrol clone?
First of all if you are a KID, you should not be drinking alcohol in the first place. Its illegal to be consumed under age. If you make that decision, and are also taking a methyl, or opiate, or anything that can jeopardize your health, its your own fault. And also the dumb asses fault who got the damn **** for you in the first place. Shame on him/her.
There are already several sdrol clones out. I dont think that one, two, or even 3 more is going to change the risk factor at all. ****, if you look hard enough you can still buy m1t, you can still buy LG's methyl 1-p, methyl 1-alpha, and their methyl masterdrol, and pretty much anything else you want. When using anything that could possibly affect your health one has to use caution. Its somewhat common sense in a way. Instead of just putting a "Do not use unless you are 21 years of age or older" label on the back of a product, why not regulate it to where you have to show an ID, to be able to purchase it. Similar to what you have to do with alcohol. I think we should still support the "steroid dealers" as you've put it, but to a certain extent.
 
LG Sciences

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Listen, I agree 100% with an over 21 ID required like alcohol or anything else. However, it is not going to happen especially with the climate surrounding steroids thanks to Pat Arnold and Conte.
 
Whiplash

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We cant even relate with PA. Most of the things he says are false. If his company didnt come up with it, it is not good, or it will kill you.
 
ShakesAllDay

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Listen, I agree 100% with an over 21 ID required like alcohol or anything else. However, it is not going to happen especially with the climate surrounding steroids thanks to Pat Arnold and Conte.
How can you blame Pat Arnold or Conte? I'm sure athletes were drugged against their will while kicking and screaming. :whip:

The gov't doesn't want the public to have access to steroids. It's not the doing of steroid makers. You can blame politics for that.

I'm not sure that is a battle that will ever be won.

^ This is off-topic from the original subject, so I will return...

I'm all about an industry/consumer sponsored organization. As long companies' personal agendas can stay out of it.
 
LG Sciences

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No agendas just general defense of sports supplements. Oh, and I blame PA for making steroids that beat drug tests. If someone took something and got caught that is one thing, but a sports supplement company engineering something to beat a drug test is another thing entirely. The whole Balco thing is what brought the ACA 2004 to the scene, without Balco, it would be a non-issue. McGuire started it with his mention of "Andro" and Balco finished the job.
 
SilentBob187

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So back to the matter at hand, what would be the first steps to getting something like this underway? I'd like to help in any way that I can, even if it just means preaching to customers in my store.
 
neoborn

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I like this and would like to be a part with two pre requisites:

1. PA / ERGO / or anything else related to PA has nothing to do with it and no controlling power / puppets of his.

2. That no supp companies have any kind of control. What will happen if the supp companies have any power, they will just buy people and you will end up with nothing better just people in company pockets.

You would need a top of the class lab facility if you wanted to do testing etc. Some political clout like Ron Paul would be good as he seems to favour .gov pulling it's thumb out.
 
Ubiquitous

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Sounds as if you are trying to usurp Snuggle Club™ to me.
 
LG Sciences

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Well, we would have to form a non-profit association and then set a membership fee for individuals (maybe $10) and companies (say $1000). This would buy the lobby, I would do the administration on my dime so there is no hint of anything like personal gain. The personal gain I get is to continue to do what I love...sell sports supplements.
 
ShakesAllDay

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Would this organization specifically deal w/ issues outside of the industry? Like was mentioned - education, lobbying, etc.?

Or, would this be a double-edged sword that would also be a "watchdog" group for issues inside the industry - label claims, safety, etc.?

Sometimes the inside and outside go hand-in-hand, so I think it would be tough to only focus on one of those areas.

Or, maybe establish 2 organizations... or not.
 
ShakesAllDay

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Outside. We have the FDA to police us.
I never saw the FDA chime in on the Epistane/Havoc fiasco last year.

I'm not a fan of the FDA and would much rather have industry participants "policing" companies than the hand-in-pocket FDA.
 
neoborn

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The FDA / .Gov is in the pockets of the pharmachems, just so you know. You let them rule, you can wave goodbye to it all supps n everything and pay 40$ + for a bottle of $6 niacin.
 
LG Sciences

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Well, unfortunately we can't really police the industry. I would like to offer cheap testing services for people though and cheap testing for supplement companies.
 
ShakesAllDay

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unfortunately we can't really police the industry
"We" as in LegalGear, or "we" as in supplement industry participants as a whole.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of such a system/organization.

Maybe in a new thread? Hey, I'll start one.
 
LG Sciences

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We as in the new organization. I am not really part of LG any more, my partner is CEO. I do help out for sure, but he is running the place. I am CEO of LegalGear still. I am thinking about releasing some LegalGear products, like weight belts etc...

What do you guys think?
 
LG Sciences

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Why? It is a cool name...

Anyway, I would like to get AM to work on the association with me. I will speak to Bobo about it. Could be really cool. I want it to be 100% above board and open to all people.
 
neoborn

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Give us teh 1AD and Andro Test mmmmmmmmm!!!
 

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I think the only way it will work is if you have an organisation that represents the supplement industry and not the consumer (sorry). You would need to get a certain amount of companies involved who pay a yearly fee and meet every so often.

This is something that we have in Europe (i work for a supp comany in the UK), called ESSNA.

Really depends if you want something to lobby or just a group of people to get cheaper medical cover!
 
LG Sciences

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I agree, that the companies are the primary donators. They also could benefit from the healthcare, since we are responsible for buying our own.
 
avgBdybldr

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this seems to be a really popular topic. i'm in. my brother in law and i run a small supplement store out of our flea market. we get quality customers, but i'm tired of the average, non exercising individual walking by and stating that everything we sell is steriods. it happens more than most people would think, and it's generally said under their breath, so they don't think we hear them. general america is ignorant. ignorant about nutrition, exercise, and supplementation. that includes Washington as well. our governmental representatives don't have a clue. i gave a sample of Axis Labs Smash today to a customer and his girlfriend looked at me and asked if it would damage his liver... even after i explained that it was a similar N.O.Xplode product he was taking. God. i'm on a soap box.
 
Whiplash

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this seems to be a really popular topic. i'm in. my brother in law and i run a small supplement store out of our flea market. we get quality customers, but i'm tired of the average, non exercising individual walking by and stating that everything we sell is steriods. it happens more than most people would think, and it's generally said under their breath, so they don't think we hear them. general america is ignorant. ignorant about nutrition, exercise, and supplementation. that includes Washington as well. our governmental representatives don't have a clue. i gave a sample of Axis Labs Smash today to a customer and his girlfriend looked at me and asked if it would damage his liver... even after i explained that it was a similar N.O.Xplode product he was taking. God. i'm on a soap box.
lol, that is just sad. A ton of people do not even have a clue. A lot of the times that ignorance is just a form of jealousy IMO.
 
jminis

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I think if structured properly could be exactly what we need. i'd be down.
 

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lol, that is just sad. A ton of people do not even have a clue. A lot of the times that ignorance is just a form of jealousy IMO.
Exactly, they are to lazy and ignorant to get themselves into even half way decent shape, so they blame anyone elses acomplishments on steroids/ supplements. No cure for stupid and lazy.
 
SilentBob187

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Exactly, they are to lazy and ignorant to get themselves into even half way decent shape, so they blame anyone elses acomplishments on steroids/ supplements. No cure for stupid and lazy.
To quote Ron White "You can't fix stupid." It is embarassing how ignorant much of the general public is when it comes to health, wellness, and supplementation. Just try working in a supplement store. There are a few lights of hope though, like when the people that come in know more than you do. At that point I'm just listening and doing my best to retain what's being said.

I am wondering if/when/how we are moving from here. Talk is fun but doing is much more rewarding.
 

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sign me up. be nice for truth and common sense to prevail.
 
Dr Packenwood

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I'd ****ing join today if it were to do this:

Lobby to keep the supplements safe, i.e. legitimate companies producing legitimate products that contain the ingredients listed, that are safe if used according to their labels. (Everything is deadly if you use it enough or in the wrong amounts. Let me decide how much I can handle.)

Allow anabolic steroids for personal use. Perhaps even tax it like cigarettes are and you would have to show ID +21, and buy it from a pharmacist along with sharps. Have harsh penalties for anyone re-distributing it, especially/including to anyone under 21. This includes not just posession but injecting someone under 21. That way it IS for the children. **** em. Let them read Spider Man comics. I'm a man and I wanna get my swole on.

And, unban everything that was banned in 04-05 for those of us uncomfortable with injections at the moment. Total and complete bull**** banning them IMHO. All politically motivated I'd say.
 
Whiplash

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I'd ****ing join today if it were to do this:

Lobby to keep the supplements safe, i.e. legitimate companies producing legitimate products that contain the ingredients listed, that are safe if used according to their labels. (Everything is deadly if you use it enough or in the wrong amounts. Let me decide how much I can handle.)

Allow anabolic steroids for personal use. Perhaps even tax it like cigarettes are and you would have to show ID +21, and buy it from a pharmacist along with sharps. Have harsh penalties for anyone re-distributing it, especially/including to anyone under 21. This includes not just posession but injecting someone under 21. That way it IS for the children. **** em. Let them read Spider Man comics. I'm a man and I wanna get my swole on.

And, unban everything that was banned in 04-05 for those of us uncomfortable with injections at the moment. Total and complete bull**** banning them IMHO. All politically motivated I'd say.
I'd ****ing join today if it were to do this:

Lobby to keep the supplements safe, i.e. legitimate companies producing legitimate products that contain the ingredients listed, that are safe if used according to their labels. (Everything is deadly if you use it enough or in the wrong amounts. Let me decide how much I can handle.)

Allow anabolic steroids for personal use. Perhaps even tax it like cigarettes are and you would have to show ID +21, and buy it from a pharmacist along with sharps. Have harsh penalties for anyone re-distributing it, especially/including to anyone under 21. This includes not just posession but injecting someone under 21. That way it IS for the children. **** em. Let them read Spider Man comics. I'm a man and I wanna get my swole on.

And, unban everything that was banned in 04-05 for those of us uncomfortable with injections at the moment. Total and complete bull**** banning them IMHO. All politically motivated I'd say.
Everything is politically motivated. Its bull****. Now the govnt wants a part of one of the biggest industries in the world, the supplement industry. They know it brings in millions if not billions of dollars a year, so taxing it would only mean more money for their rich fat asses. Whats dying rich prove in the long run? Nothing, you're dead. To any govnt related persons:FUfinger::FUfinger::FUfinger:
 
Dr Packenwood

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Everything is politically motivated. Its bull****. Now the govnt wants a part of one of the biggest industries in the world, the supplement industry. They know it brings in millions if not billions of dollars a year, so taxing it would only mean more money for their rich fat asses. Whats dying rich prove in the long run? Nothing, you're dead. To any govnt related persons:FUfinger::FUfinger::FUfinger:
Thats the reason why I figured taxing it would bring it about. They get $$, we get supps that work.
 
poopypants

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this is all fine and dandy... but talking bout it here on the boards wont get any body anywhere, someone in the know where to take step on to get this in motion DO IT, then come back here and tell me where to sign on the dotted line and I'll continue to campaign, lobby and sign petitions until this is done.

Did any of you catch the thread on CODEX????
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-articles/61075-what-codex-why.html

It starts at sites like these, I watched the video, I went to the site, I signed the petition and I requested for more information to be sent to me as updates are made. Without action boys your wishes wont come true. I suggest again someone in the know get the ball rolling and then come here an sstart a rucous to get **** signed, also go to the link I posted and sign that if you even want to be able to dose vitamin C in 1000mg doses in the future.....
 
LG Sciences

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Well, we have to get started with soliciting supplement companies. Would anyone want to volunteer? I will talk to bobo about it too.
 

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