Which LG prohormone is right for me?

[bill86]

So I realized I was hijacking the 1-andro thread and decided to start a new thread with a general discussion for which ph is right for me.

info:
- This would be my first cycle ever
- I'll be 27 years old at the beginning of the cycle, with 12 years lifting experience. 6'2-6'3 at 220
- I'm looking for something to cut up on while gaining some dry, lean size. If I could gain 5-10 lbs WHILE cutting bodyfat, I would be ecstatic.
- I'm somewhat prone to gyno as I've had pseudo-gyno since puberty, and my chest holds fat disproportionately, so needless to say, real gyno on top of what i've got would more or less destroy my self image haha
- I've battled borderline high blood pressure, with the highest around 148/95, after changing my diet and incorporating a lot of celery, etc, it was 128/88, and then 110/78 the last 2 times I went to the doctor. Regardless, I would run ubiquinol and hawthorn berry with whatever ph I choose.
- Being new to ph's, I'd really prefer not to run anything over 4 weeks, although I've heard most people say with these products, that isn't enough, especially at their doses (obviously, again being a noob, I want to run the lowest dose needed)

For my goals, it seems the best options would be EpiAndro, 1-Andro, or 17-ProAndro. My friend ordered the 17-Pro yesterday, as he said the research on the compounds that he did pretty much concluded that it was the one with the least sides (he too is worried about gyno as he had surgery on his last year as he too is prone to gyno, and at that point vowed to never use anything hormonal again).

So what would you guys recommend? From a side effect standpoint, is 17-andro my best bet?

Being a ph virgin, I too figured I'd go with whichever compound has the least amount of sides, however, I wondered about lethargy with the 17-pro, as I don't want to have to take a ton of stims preworkout to have the energy to get in the gym (blood pressure issues). Also, I didn't want to take anything that would crush my estrogen, causing rebound.

Regarding pct, I've done all the research and know all about different serms for different compounds, but what attracted me to LG (and the old androseries) were the claims that you could go OTC route, which I would much prefer. I've got some DAA and inhibit-e on hand, and wondering if those would be sufficient since it would be a very mild, 4 week cycle?

Any info on optimal compound, cycle, and/or pct for my goals would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[ManimalPatB]

First of all gyno is not a worry with any of the three that you picked.

BUT according to your goals and what you would like to do. I would do the 17, as I have been running the 17 on a calorie deficit type diet and I have retained my size while leaning up (its crazy, the weight hasn't changed that much but I have leaned up a ton)

AS for a PCT I would just grab a bottle of the Form-XT, its one of the better ones that you are going for. BUT DAA isn't that bad either. You could even do both and get more bang for your buck

BUT my two cents would be to run the 17 and just see how you feel.

 

[EatMoar]

Okay I have a question, it's been itching at me for awhile so don't bite my head off. How come if you're running a legal ph by LG Spencer's for example, they claim all of them have no liver toxicity but they are a Ph.... Then you run something like dianobol, hdrol, super from and those eat your liver up . How come LgS 's phS don't do that as well. Are they not as strong hence why they are legal?

 

[bill86]

eatmoar - i think it's because they aren't methylated, which makes them harsher on the liver due to conversion

manimal - my friend just ordered the 17, and i wanted to do the same to run them together; glad to hear i was on the right track. however, despite having never ran a cycle before, would a 4 week solo 17 cycle yield decent results? it just seems that everyone is stacking it, running it for 6-8 weeks, or taking much more than the recommended serving (none of which i want to do having never cycled before)

also, just out of curiosity, how risky are the epi and 1-a for blood pressure? for a first timer, i'd like to try 17, but if things go well, i may like to try something else in the future.

thanks for the help!

 

[bill86]

**being methylated makes them harsher, not being methylated makes them less harsh**

but i forgot one other thing; my buddy is getting married in a couple of months and we're having a bachelors party in the middle of may, where i'm probably going to drink more than a little bit. how long after the cycle should i wait, as i want to maximize gains/minimize losses by not drinking much during pct (and obviously not at all during the cycle)?

based on the dates and when i'd start the 17-pro, it appears i'd be about 1.5 weeks into pct by the date of his party. is that a sufficient amount of time on pct to maintain gains, or should i wait until after the party completely to start the cycle (i'd rather start sooner than later because the whole reason is to get lean for summer)?

basically, i just don't want to throw away my progress/gains for a single weekend; but being completely honest, i don't think i can not drink that weekend as they aren't big party guys themselves, and this is kinda like the weekend to 'go all out'.

thanks again.

 

[ManimalPatB]

eatmoar - i think it's because they aren't methylated, which makes them harsher on the liver due to conversion

manimal - my friend just ordered the 17, and i wanted to do the same to run them together; glad to hear i was on the right track. however, despite having never ran a cycle before, would a 4 week solo 17 cycle yield decent results? it just seems that everyone is stacking it, running it for 6-8 weeks, or taking much more than the recommended serving (none of which i want to do having never cycled before)

also, just out of curiosity, how risky are the epi and 1-a for blood pressure? for a first timer, i'd like to try 17, but if things go well, i may like to try something else in the future.

thanks for the help!

Hello sirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Yes, I think since its your first cycle of ANYTHING you will have good gains. Everyone is "stacking it" because they just want different things. But as a first time user, less is always more. You need to be smart with you body, as you are going to be introducing something brand new to it and you need to let your body get used to it first.

So yes, 4 weeks on 17 and if you want 4 weeks on Form-X would be a great thing to do, you could even throw in the DAA to get a little more with the PCT.

I have been taking the 1 A right now with the 17 and I have not seen any negative sides with BP. So that is always a plus.

So lets first start with the 17 and go from there.

 

[ManimalPatB]

**being methylated makes them harsher, not being methylated makes them less harsh**

but i forgot one other thing; my buddy is getting married in a couple of months and we're having a bachelors party in the middle of may, where i'm probably going to drink more than a little bit. how long after the cycle should i wait, as i want to maximize gains/minimize losses by not drinking much during pct (and obviously not at all during the cycle)?

based on the dates and when i'd start the 17-pro, it appears i'd be about 1.5 weeks into pct by the date of his party. is that a sufficient amount of time on pct to maintain gains, or should i wait until after the party completely to start the cycle (i'd rather start sooner than later because the whole reason is to get lean for summer)?

basically, i just don't want to throw away my progress/gains for a single weekend; but being completely honest, i don't think i can not drink that weekend as they aren't big party guys themselves, and this is kinda like the weekend to 'go all out'.

thanks again.

One weekend of massive drinking isn't going to completely "kill" your gains. But just make sure you eat your meals (before you go drinking) and what I have done in the past when doing massive drinking is (sadly) brought along Aminos in a shaker and had like a Metrx Protein Bar/Brownie handy because I am just that hardcore!!!

But, just live it up that day. That day is about your buddy not your gains haha

 

[bill86]

exactly, i could only imagine what he'd say if i go 'yeah, i can't party with you like that because i decided to run this cycle' hahah. but i was just wondering if 1.5 weeks into pct was long enough; ideally i would have liked to be several weeks into or, better yet, DONE with pct before going for a weekend of heavy drinking (not only because i feel like my gains are still in a 'fragile' state, if you will, at that point, but also because of alcohol's negative effect on test/estrogen; i just didn't want to screw anything up while i'm trying to get my hormones back to normal while maintaining these gains).

Thanks for the info on the stack, i definitely wasn't thinking about starting off with a stack, just wondering if i'd see legit gains on such a short cycle of 17, as i'm hesitant to put stuff in my body that i've never tried for longer than a month (especially since i'm not using a serm, although that may not be needed for a 6 week cycle, but you know).

so regarding the pct, is that not too long to be running the 'erase' (4 weeks cycle + 4 weeks pct)? I was thinking of just running pct assist, advanced pct, or bioforge + daa (don't want to rely solely on DAA because i've never used it, but have heard it can cause anxiety issues, and i take lexapro for anxiety, so i wouldn't want to be put in that situation haha)

thanks for the help, man

 

[ManimalPatB]

exactly, i could only imagine what he'd say if i go 'yeah, i can't party with you like that because i decided to run this cycle' hahah. but i was just wondering if 1.5 weeks into pct was long enough; ideally i would have liked to be several weeks into or, better yet, DONE with pct before going for a weekend of heavy drinking (not only because i feel like my gains are still in a 'fragile' state, if you will, at that point, but also because of alcohol's negative effect on test/estrogen; i just didn't want to screw anything up while i'm trying to get my hormones back to normal while maintaining these gains).

Thanks for the info on the stack, i definitely wasn't thinking about starting off with a stack, just wondering if i'd see legit gains on such a short cycle of 17, as i'm hesitant to put stuff in my body that i've never tried for longer than a month (especially since i'm not using a serm, although that may not be needed for a 6 week cycle, but you know).

so regarding the pct, is that not too long to be running the 'erase' (4 weeks cycle + 4 weeks pct)? I was thinking of just running pct assist, advanced pct, or bioforge + daa (don't want to rely solely on DAA because i've never used it, but have heard it can cause anxiety issues, and i take lexapro for anxiety, so i wouldn't want to be put in that situation haha)

thanks for the help, man

Yeah man, the PCT that you have with the length will be good. Just to make sure everything is back to normal.

1.5 weeks into your PCT you'll be fine, because even though the 17 has "stopped" its still in your system and you'll still be getting the affects of it while running the PCT (the magic of supplements)

The 8 weeks total (17 + PCT) is normal, and is something that I would also recommend/do myself.

ONE extra tidbit, increase the amount of fish oil (if you are taking them) when you do the cycle as it will help your body assimilate the 17 into the body because of the increased fats. I do not know the exact science behind it, but it just helps.

 

[bill86]

ok, great, thanks for all the info you've provided! glad you mentioned fish oil, i used to take it ALL the time, and eventually just stopped, i needed a reminder to get back on it haha.

so i guess i'll find a non-daa pct (such as form-xt and/or the others i mentioned) just in case i react poorly to the daa, otherwise, i'll just run the pct alongside daa.

thanks again!

 

[EatMoar]

eatmoar - i think it's because they aren't methylated, which makes them harsher on the liver due to conversion

manimal - my friend just ordered the 17, and i wanted to do the same to run them together; glad to hear i was on the right track. however, despite having never ran a cycle before, would a 4 week solo 17 cycle yield decent results? it just seems that everyone is stacking it, running it for 6-8 weeks, or taking much more than the recommended serving (none of which i want to do having never cycled before)

also, just out of curiosity, how risky are the epi and 1-a for blood pressure? for a first timer, i'd like to try 17, but if things go well, i may like to try something else in the future.

thanks for the help!

ahh alright. nice. thanks.

 

[lukehayd]

exactly, i could only imagine what he'd say if i go 'yeah, i can't party with you like that because i decided to run this cycle' hahah. but i was just wondering if 1.5 weeks into pct was long enough; ideally i would have liked to be several weeks into or, better yet, DONE with pct before going for a weekend of heavy drinking (not only because i feel like my gains are still in a 'fragile' state, if you will, at that point, but also because of alcohol's negative effect on test/estrogen; i just didn't want to screw anything up while i'm trying to get my hormones back to normal while maintaining these gains).

Thanks for the info on the stack, i definitely wasn't thinking about starting off with a stack, just wondering if i'd see legit gains on such a short cycle of 17, as i'm hesitant to put stuff in my body that i've never tried for longer than a month (especially since i'm not using a serm, although that may not be needed for a 6 week cycle, but you know).

so regarding the pct, is that not too long to be running the 'erase' (4 weeks cycle + 4 weeks pct)? I was thinking of just running pct assist, advanced pct, or bioforge + daa (don't want to rely solely on DAA because i've never used it, but have heard it can cause anxiety issues, and i take lexapro for anxiety, so i wouldn't want to be put in that situation haha)

thanks for the help, man

I always like to have a SERM on hand even if it is not foreseen as a necessity. I look at it this way: it takes up to a week or so to get stuff shipped to where I live and I don't want to wait that long for it to get here if I need it and I sure don't want to pay the outlandish shipping to have it next day shipped. It's a better safe than sorry/be prepared mentality. I like to have all my support supps for during and after cycle along with the products I'll be running for the cycle before I even take my first dose.

 

[bill86]

yeah, i understand that completely, and also believe in having everything in order before starting anything. for me, the issue was just a) not wanting to go through some sketchy website to get my hands on something i shouldn't be having in the first place, and, more importantly haha, b) i'm weary of serms based on THEIR sides and potential hepatotoxicity issues.

the whole reason for choosing an LG compound like the 17-pro and for running such a short cycle (i'm wondering if i'd even see results in 4 weeks on something like 17-andro) is to avoid having to go the serm route. my plan was to run daa+erase once the cycle ends, and if i had sides with daa (i have anxiety issues, and i heard it can exacerbate those issues), run something like recycle+forskolin+erase, testopro+erase, etc.

 

[lukehayd]

yeah, i understand that completely, and also believe in having everything in order before starting anything. for me, the issue was just a) not wanting to go through some sketchy website to get my hands on something i shouldn't be having in the first place, and, more importantly haha, b) i'm weary of serms based on THEIR sides and potential hepatotoxicity issues.

the whole reason for choosing an LG compound like the 17-pro and for running such a short cycle (i'm wondering if i'd even see results in 4 weeks on something like 17-andro) is to avoid having to go the serm route. my plan was to run daa+erase once the cycle ends, and if i had sides with daa (i have anxiety issues, and i heard it can exacerbate those issues), run something like recycle+forskolin+erase, testopro+erase, etc.

Anxiety issues can be increased while on any PH. Are you on any Rx meds for this? If so, I would consult your doctor first. Some can be real jerks in this area while others are open minded. Hopefully yours is the latter.

This being your first cycle, I'm sure you would have noticeable effects on a 4 week cycle.

 

[bill86]

yeah, i'm on lexapro 10mg ED, and i doubt my doctor would be cool with it, he didn't even want to check my test levels; despite agreeing to it, i just got a message saying they were 'normal', without any numbers. he wouldn't even test my estrogen.

i had heard of others in the same boat as me using similar compounds, but maybe i should do some more research. anyone in this thread have any person experience?

thanks

 

[bill86]

personal experience***

 

[bill86]

My understanding was that lexapro (and similarly, celexa) don't have the same inhibitory effect on the 3A4 site as other anxiety/depression meds, which is what's responsible for the interaction.... maybe someone with a better understanding than i could correct me/clarify.