question for LG sciences on MmV2.

[jbryand101b]

seems to be the b isomer, which i think has a.i. properties?

on the bottle, the nomenclature for the pro hormone in lg sciences is listed as the following:

3-Beta-Hydroxyetiollocholan-17-One: 100mg

so okay, I know masterdrol contains dhea. thats simple,

but I had to take a second look at this and break it down so it looks normal.

and this is what it becomes:

5b-androst-3-one-17b-ol

so either this is a b isomer of dht, and illegal, or another way to write dhea and you just happen to forget the ene (would be androsten in the nomenclature) when writing it on bottles.

 

[jbryand101b]

is this correct, or what? i would like to use it in an upcomming stack, but i would really like to know what it is for sure, instead of speculating on the nomenclatures that are written funny.

 

[jbryand101b]

no answer, something is shady. maybe i'll get a answer from cel on their stano drol. they use the a skeleton ismor in their version.

 

[SwolenONE]

sorry we didnt get back to you sooner.

Eric is the owner and the chem guru. I'd suggest PMing him for a quick answer (username: LegalGear)

I know sometimes the nomenclature on LG products hasnt been the most clear, and I believe Eric said that is soon to change.

thanks for your interest in MMv2, its a tremendous supp for those looking to train their heaviest, but keep the BBers physique rather than packing on unwanted pounds.

 

[shinivan]

seems to be the b isomer, which i think has a.i. properties?

on the bottle, the nomenclature for the pro hormone in lg sciences is listed as the following:

3-Beta-Hydroxyetiollocholan-17-One: 100mg

so okay, I know masterdrol contains dhea. thats simple,

but I had to take a second look at this and break it down so it looks normal.

and this is what it becomes:

5b-androst-3-one-17b-ol



so either this is a b isomer of dht, and illegal, or another way to write dhea and you just happen to forget the ene (would be androsten in the nomenclature) when writing it on bottles.

:shocked:HOLY SHIZZLE!!! So is that right?? is the b isomer of dht illegal or banned as of now??? Is that why you guys changed your mmv2 active into the current "alpha" isomer which is the main active in the mmv3???

I was told that you guys opted for alpha isomer "DUE TO IT BEING BETTER/MORE EFFECTIVE" or is it cause of trying to be safe with the fda??

BUMP FOR THIS ONE PLEASE LG REPS.


PS: YO bryan, you guessed right. the 3-beta-hydroxyetiallocholen -17-one is indeed the beta isomer of dht better known as "epiandrosterone" and it is the main active in the old very effective methyl masterdrol v2. What i didnt know is that it was banned or illegal , is this true??
The current active being used is "androsterone" or 3-alpha-hydroxyetiallocholen-17-one (alpha isomer) . I dont know whether this is actually stronger/more effective than its b isomer, though.

Cheers!

 

[Liftergym33]

:shocked:HOLY SHIZZLE!!! So is that right?? is the b isomer of dht illegal or banned as of now??? Is that why you guys changed your mmv2 active into the current "alpha" isomer which is the main active in the mmv3???

I was told that you guys opted for alpha isomer "DUE TO IT BEING BETTER/MORE EFFECTIVE" or is it cause of trying to be safe with the fda??

BUMP FOR THIS ONE PLEASE LG REPS.


PS: YO bryan, you guessed right. the 3-beta-hydroxyetiallocholen -17-one is indeed the beta isomer of dht better known as "epiandrosterone" and it is the main active in the old very effective methyl masterdrol v2. What i didnt know is that it was banned or illegal , is this true??
The current active being used is "androsterone" or 3-alpha-hydroxyetiallocholen-17-one (alpha isomer) . I dont know whether this is actually stronger/more effective than its b isomer, though.

Cheers!

The alpha is used in the oral tablets because it is more effective for that type of absorption, the beta was used in the old MMv2 due to that delivery system.. also, don't quote me, but I think I talked to Legal gear about the Alpha being more superior in the Oral tabs then the beta would have been..

Send him a PM, I'm sure he'll be in to chime in

 

[jbryand101b]

they weren't just made illegal. my concern is because the nomenclature couldn't be right.

and this is because the nomenclature, a or b isomer is just plain dht. not a pro hormone to dht. it is saying it is dht.

and dht was made illegal on the first steroid ban in the 90's. dihydrotestosterone is a class III controled substance.

this is why I was wondering what was up with the nomenclature.

 

[shinivan]

they weren't just made illegal. my concern is because the nomenclature couldn't be right.

and this is because the nomenclature, a or b isomer is just plain dht. not a pro hormone to dht. it is saying it is dht.

and dht was made illegal on the first steroid ban in the 90's. dihydrotestosterone is a class III controled substance.

this is why I was wondering what was up with the nomenclature.

Thanks for the info bro, didnt know about the dht legality status. But from what i know, the active (either a or b isomers) in the masterdrol is not actually dht, but rather a precursor compound that is supposed to convert to stanololol or something like that which supposely is 7times more anabolic than testosterone in the androgen receptor.
And yes, the alpha and beta isomer represent the same compound but from slightly different sides. From what i know the beta isomer shows a bit more anabolic activity than the alpha isomer. But i recently learned (and confirming from lifter gym reply it seems this is the case) that the alpha isomer shows more effectiveness when taken orally, therefore this explains why the lg team decided to substitute the old active for this new alpha isomer for their version 3.

Thats as far as i researched but anyone correct me if im wrong please.


Still, i got version 3 and will be running it soon. hehe.


Cheers.

 

[jbryand101b]

The target hormone for mmv is stanolone.

when you look up the nomenclature for stanolone and compare it to dht. they are the same.

the way the nomenclature is written on the bottle, there is no conversion, because the nomenclature is written as a parent compound with no conversion needed.

for example.

5-androstene-3-beta,17-beta-dione

5-androstene-3-beta,17-beta-diol

the body uses the liver enzyme 17-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase to convert the diol/dione into the active steroid 5a-androst-3b-17b-ol
aka dht (stanolone)

so maybe this is supposed to be. this would be legal, but require a two step conversion into dht.

and yes, stanolone is also called dehydrotestosterone.=dht=hairloss, prostate cance, androgenic, not very anabolic.

 

[shinivan]

The target hormone for mmv is stanolone.

when you look up the nomenclature for stanolone and compare it to dht. they are the same.

the way the nomenclature is written on the bottle, there is no conversion, because the nomenclature is written as a parent compound with no conversion needed.

for example.

5-androstene-3-beta,17-beta-dione

5-androstene-3-beta,17-beta-diol

the body uses the liver enzyme 17-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase to convert the diol/dione into the active steroid 5a-androst-3b-17b-ol
aka dht (stanolone)

so maybe this is supposed to be. this would be legal, but require a two step conversion into dht.

and yes, stanolone is also called dehydrotestosterone.=dht=hairloss, prostate cance, androgenic, not very anabolic.

:shocked: A lot of what you said i knew but some i didnt know at all. And yes the ingredients' label nomenclature seems a bit fishy. Maybe an lg rep could help explain what's the real active on this stuff.. LG ANYONE?

 

[jbryand101b]

they've chimed in but it seems alot of reps for companies dont seem to know much about the products they are repping aside from what they are told, or the label says.

atleast some lg reps have chimed in on this thread, i've got nothing about stanodrol from c.e.l.

im thinking im going to move these threads to the anabolics section, so some people who know something about steroids and nomenclature can chime in and help explain it.

 

[jbryand101b]

questin answered

When you rearranged the nomenclature, your 3b-hydroxy (-ol) became 3-ketone (-one), and your 17-ketone became 17b-hydroxy... :think:

The rearranged should read:

5a-androst-17-one-3b-ol

This is a 2-step conversion to stanolone via the 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD enzymes. If the 17-one converts to 17b-ol, and the 3b-ol converts to 3-one, then you have stanolone (DHT), which is what LG originally marketed this to do.

okay, now I got it. thanks to mass 69 for clearing it up for me (answered in the cell thread on stano drol)

too bad stanolone is dht. i have no use for dht, esp since it quickly gets de activated into 5-andro-diol. but im sure it goes back an forth during the half life, or until it finds an ar site.

 

[jbryand101b]

so how good is this thing? i have a bottle in my stash and i wanna know, cuz im cutting and want to incorperate this when i reach my target weight

well, research the ingredients in them, and also research dht used for cutting, and that should give you an idea.

user logs seem to be happy with it. i've never used it, it's too expensive.

 

[LG Sciences]

The main thing is that the small nuances in the nomenclature.

3-one is not the same as 3a or 3b

17-one is not the same as 17b

Also, androstene is not the same as androstane


So, DHT Androstane,3-one, 17b-ol is not the same as MMv3 Androstane 3b-ol, 17-one

They are actually inverts of each other!

 

[LG Sciences]

images

 

[shinivan]

The main thing is that the small nuances in the nomenclature.

3-one is not the same as 3a or 3b

17-one is not the same as 17b

Also, androstene is not the same as androstane


So, DHT Androstane,3-one, 17b-ol is not the same as MMv3 Androstane 3b-ol, 17-one

They are actually inverts of each other!

how does "inverts of each other" translate to effects in the body???
does mmv3 carry the bad dht sides such as hairloss or is mmv3 free from this??? legal gear, could you further detali on this??


thanks

 

[jbryand101b]

This is what he is saying...

When you rearranged the nomenclature, your 3b-hydroxy (-ol) became 3-ketone (-one), and your 17-ketone became 17b-hydroxy... :think:

The rearranged should read:

5a-androst-17-one-3b-ol

This is a 2-step conversion to stanolone via the 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD enzymes. If the 17-one converts to 17b-ol, and the 3b-ol converts to 3-one, then you have stanolone (DHT), which is what LG originally marketed this to do.

I dont think the last two posters have read the thread. so here ya go....

he is just answering the original question, although a few weeks too late as it was answered in my stanodrol thread by mass 69 for me (not a cel or lg rep btw)
As I had mixed up the nomenclature when I was trying to arrange it to make sense.

as has already been said, it a two step conversion pro hormone to dihydrotestosterone which is also known as stanolone. nothing special in my opinion, but it has it's place.

and the funny thing is, they have this thing called the trifecta stack, and masterdrol contains anti dht supports to preven the dhea from converting into dht, but they want you to stack a ph to dht with it!
lol funny, someone must be :439: at l.g. when they made that stack, and are like :booty:, "we got your money sucka!"

im not saying the products dont work btw. :nervous:

 

[jbryand101b]

how does "inverts of each other" translate to effects in the body???
does mmv3 carry the bad dht sides such as hairloss or is mmv3 free from this??? legal gear, could you further detali on this??


thanks

mfg: you aren't serious are you? you read a thread that tells you mm is a pro hormone to dht, and you ask if it has dht sides?

no offense, but....:dunno:

 

[jbryand101b]

so how good is this thing? i have a bottle in my stash and i wanna know, cuz im cutting and want to incorperate this when i reach my target weight

well, research the ingredients in them, and also research dht used for cutting, and that should give you an idea.

yea....i need to know. i wanna use what i have(mmv3) but i have no idea what the effects are, im cutting right now and want to use it

:damnit1:

 

[shinivan]

dude....the rep just said it wasnt DHT. im askin for first hand experience or a rep to answer my question

I dont think mmv3 and straight stanolon (dht) should be merged. I understood from the lg reps that is not the same thing. Besides, lg's prohormones are among the safest so i dont think mmv3 and straight dht will have the exact same effects/sides , etc.

Still , i ask cause i have it and want to know first before using it. I second tnasty, its perfectly fair to ask this and by no means should anyone be offended by any matter.

I think we should hear what the lg reps have to say as they know their own formula best and have seen many logs from customers. Anyone had any experience on this mmv3 on what to expect for positive effects and side effects, hairloss, etc Welocme ,

Thanks
'

 

[jbryand101b]

okay, that is fine, all the lg reps said is the same thing, but in just different words.

I had a couple of letters in the simplified nomenlcature mixed up, and in doing that, it made it look to be un converted, illegal, dht.

here is where it was mixed up,

When you (meaning me, the op) rearranged the nomenclature, your 3b-hydroxy (-ol) became 3-ketone (-one), and your 17-ketone became 17b-hydroxy...

The rearranged should read:

5a-androst-17-one-3b-ol = 3-Beta-Hydroxyetiollocholan-17-One

3-beta = 3b
hydroxy = ol
etiollocholan = 5a -androst=androstane
17-one = 17-one





Originally Posted by LegalGear
The main thing is that the small nuances in the nomenclature.

3-one is not the same as 3a or 3b

17-one is not the same as 17b

Also, androstene is not the same as androstane


So, DHT Androstane,3-one, 17b-ol is not the same as MMv3 Androstane 3b-ol, 17-one

They are actually inverts of each other!

What inverts of each other means...

This is a 2-step conversion to stanolone via the 3b-HSD and 17b-HSD enzymes. If the 17-one converts to 17b-ol, and the 3b-ol converts to 3-one, then you have stanolone (DHT)

the enzymes make the switch/conversion of the pro hormone into dht.

the lg rep was stating it does not start out as dht, and therefore is not illegal. which is what this thread was asking to clear up.
the inverts means the body using enzymes makes the conversions into the target hormone, which in this case is stanalone, otherwise known as dht.

idk how to make it more simple and understandable.
im sorry to say this, but if you arent able to understand this, then you shouldn't be using steroids.
and from what i've seen, reps, no matter what company, mostly only seem to know what they are told from their boss. this is why mdrol is listed as being an ineffecte and useless b isomer of superdrol. because people who make this stuff dont know squat about nomenclature. Obviously mdrol works which isn't the case if it really was a b isomer of superdrol.

 

[jbryand101b]

sorry we didnt get back to you sooner.

Eric is the owner and the chem guru. I'd suggest PMing him for a quick answer (username: LegalGear)

I know sometimes the nomenclature on LG products hasnt been the most clear, and I believe Eric said that is soon to change.

thanks for your interest in MMv2, its a tremendous supp for those looking to train their heaviest, but keep the BBers physique rather than packing on unwanted pounds.

Eric is the owner and the chem guru. I'd suggest PMing him for a quick answer (username: LegalGear)

here, pm eric and ask him your questions on mmv 1,2,3 w/e version what it is a pro hormone to. he will tell you dht (stanalone)
this is no secret.

 

[danieltx13]

and the funny thing is, they have this thing called the trifecta stack, and masterdrol contains anti dht supports to preven the dhea from converting into dht, but they want you to stack a ph to dht with it!
lol funny, someone must be :439: at l.g. when they made that stack, and are like :booty:, "we got your money sucka!"

im not saying the products dont work btw. :nervous:

Interesting thread. I'm considering purchasing the Trifecta Stack and this jumped out at me, basically one product in the stack is blocking the full effect of the other. I've ready countless reviews of the stack and I know that it works, but if anyone has some insight to offer on this (aside from it blocking the negative effects of DHT) I'd like to hear it.

 

[LG Sciences]

Sure this is an easy one.

First, in M1D you have a stand alone product that could be used for people who care about hair loss.

Now, if you block DHT conversion of testosterone, you get more active testosterone which will have a different effect compared to the DHT. So, even though they are both androgens, you have some differences in effects for example DHT is much more active in fat cells for example, it also has neurological effects that testosterone does not. Testosterone has similar differences in certain circumstances, so you want this effect as well!

 

[jbryand101b]

lol, sure, i've never even taken chemistry. the stuff im talkin about is as basic as it gets for nomenclature and steroids.

if you dont understand what a pro hormone is from the basic info in this thread, and that mm uses a 2 step pro hormone for dht as their pro hormone in methyl masterdrol. I dont think anyone can help you on your question my friend. :dunno:

 

[jbryand101b]

well, if you look at the title of this thread, no where in it does it say log, or review of Methyl masterdrol. It is titled question for LG on MmV2.

and the question was on the nomenclature, due to it being written in a way that normal people with no knowledge on steroids or their use, can understand.

and btw, "bro Science" is a term used for anecdotal experience. I.e. "customer testimonials, user reviews, a persons personal belief as to why a product does for them what it does"

or simply put in your own words, "i just want word of mouth from experience" otherwise known as "Bro science". And this is Rampant at places like "bb.com", so im sure you can find your answers there.

im am talking about actual science, and data. and explaining to you to look for this data and information on the subject of pro hormones, the androgenic/slightly anabolic steroid DHT use.

The entire Pro hormone line up from L.G. sciences is made for people like you. That is, people not wanting to learn about anabolic steroids, but take them and get the benifits, without the risks.

this is why their products are safe, and easy to use. because most aren't dumb enough (or rich enough) to mess themselves up on a product like dhea.

minor gains, with minor to zero sides.
a safe, and more effective than an herbal test booster pro hormone for the cautious.

and yes, you can use this to cut/recomp, as are most dht derrived steroids used for, that and strength gains. just beware of the androgenic sides that come with it. increase the gains, increase the sides, decrease sides, decrease gains. simply put.

"insert spoon in mouth, pull out" good huh.

 

[protempsfish]

quite the thread