Hemogex...the real thing?
- 07-16-2008, 04:07 PM
Hemogex...the real thing?
Been taking Hemogex for about a week now, and I've already noticed better sleep, increased energy at work (I am at a desk all day and usually dying by early afternoon), a perpetual pump and an odd type of strength increase in the gym...not lifting so much more in terms of lbs (weight is up slightly though) but everything just feels solid. It's like my joints feel better. I have been having some slight tendonitis in my right wrist and bicep, and since taking the hemo it's gotten less and less to where I don't feel it anymore at all....can this stuff be the real deal?? Can anyone post similar experiences with Hemogex?????
- 07-18-2008, 04:56 AM
Is this a joke?
- 07-18-2008, 08:00 AM
why would I waste my time posting if this was a joke? I've had decent success with VPX products in the past (i.e. M1T - BUT ANY M1T in the day was prob all the same). But Im no die hard VPX fan by any means...just stating that this product seems to have some effect and was wondering if anyone has had similar benefits. I also noticed very quick finger nail and facial hair growth (just noting that because I've seen others mention it. I've tried alot of supps in my day, so I can tell when I'm getting effects from a supplement.
07-18-2008, 05:24 PM
The reason I ask is that even real GH doesn't show effects that quickly, so you are definitely, 100% for sure experiencing placebo effect.
07-18-2008, 09:52 PM
have you run gh cycles before? If so, what length,doseage etc. until you saw effects?
07-18-2008, 10:39 PM
GHRP-2 has very low oral bioavailability...perhaps 1%. I doubt that they would put 10mgs of GHRP-2 into each drink as this would cost them (even wholesale) more than $10 per drink.
Plus their claim of modifying the terminal to a simple akyl to increase oral bioavailability is doubtfully very effective. There is nothing in the research that indicates that this modification will provide the benefit they claim.
All of this aside ...even IF you got an increase spike of GH release from a drink you won't feel it. GH doesn't work that way.
Enjoy your drink.
But if you want to get GH levels up you need to either inject GH or a growth hormone releasing hormone analog (like CJC-1295) and/or a growth hormone releasing peptide (like GHRP-6).
07-18-2008, 11:51 PM
I've read it actually is quite orally bioavailable.
07-19-2008, 12:51 AM
Here's the very tip of my science:
If after reading my thread you need me to post a study or two or three... to clarify something for a curious mind I don't mind doing that.
I haven't even mentioned the desensitization that rapidly occurs from oral ingestion of GHRPs...
07-19-2008, 01:22 AM
Here is a quick excerpt from one of a few research studies I've read. I can't really validate the sources of any of this info however....
The reason GHRP-2 is best for a science-based formula is because the GH-releasing activity of GHRP-2 is effective even with oral administration. Studies show that the GH releasing effect of GHRP-2 will undergo partial desensitization during continuous infusion, but much less during intermittent oral administration, which is one reason that a science-based formula would be most effective when given in on and off cycles.[/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I]
07-19-2008, 01:25 AM
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07-19-2008, 02:49 AM
That's not science. GHRP-2 like all the GHRPS are minimally orally bioavailable. But the percentage is so low that Merck spent a lot of time develpoing MK-0677 a non-peptide GHS-mimetic that IS highly bioavailable.
Yes as I noted in my article desensitaztion does occur via constant infusion. Do you know what constant infusion is bro?
It is where an IV is hooked up and a drug/peptide is continually administered. That has nothing to do with a subcutaneous injection....which if given at intervals is intermittent.
In addition GHRPs by the oral administration route exhibit a delay in exciting the hypothalamic neurons probably because they do not cross the blood brain barrier as rapidly. This means that they wouldn't act as quickly as adminstration by subcutaneous injection.
Are you familiar with the term tachyphylaxia? That is what occurs when GHRP-2 and other GHS are administered orally. They loose effectiveness even when dosed intermittently. This is an effect that is common to a lot of oral medications. By-the-way it basically means "a decreased response to a medicine given over a period of time so that larger doses are required to produce the same response."
By the way that site that is serving as your scientific source...the one that use the term "science-based formula"...it is NOT a scientific journal or medical journal. They sell you products based on this "science-based formula" language.
07-19-2008, 03:06 AM
You may wish to read Roy G. Smith's account of his research at Merck in discovering MK-0677 a highly orally bioavailable GHS. It can be found in the following citation:
Peptidomimetic Regulation of Growth Hormone Secretion
Endocr. Rev., Roy G. Smith..., Oct 1997; 18: 621 - 645.
Why would Merck go to all this trouble if GHRP-2 was so highly orally bioavailable....hmmmm....here is a sentence or two from that article...
The peptide GHRP-6 was of ideal size, but because its receptor had not been identified, and cell lines responsive to GHRP-6 were unknown, high volume screening for a peptidomimetic was impractical. Based on these considerations, investigators modified the structure of GHRP-6 and identified more potent peptides (4, 5, 6, 18). For example, activity was enhanced by replacing D-Trp2 by D-2-(2-napthyl)alanine and His by D-alanine to furnish GHRP-2 (D-Ala-D-2 Nal-Ala-Trp-D-Phe-Lys-NH2) (5). However, the peptides still had low oral bioavailability....
I added the bold of course.
07-19-2008, 06:54 PM
ow you got alot of time on your hands bro! thx for the info though......you studying your phd or what?
07-19-2008, 08:02 PM
OK I dont mean to drag this out too long, but I'm just trying to validate the fact that I've read studies out there that confirm GHRP-2 may be orally bioavailable. I am no scientist nor am I attempting to be one. You've given me some good information and now have my mind going as I am now addicted to researching this toic...thanks alot!!
I don't know what amount of GHRP-2 is even contained in Hemogex, nor do I or does anyone else in this forum truly know how well it works.....anyway one more quote from a study I was just reading.
In this protocol we administered GHRP-2 by sc injections, in part because of limited supplies and limited safety information for children by other routes at the time of the study, in part to allow direct comparison with our previous studies using sc GHRH. Among the potential advantages of GHRP-2 treatment is the possibility of oral administration, because of its small size and resistance to digestive proteolysis, although the doses employed are necessarily much higher. This is usually viewed as a matter of convenience and patient acceptance, but the results of our study suggest other potential advantages to that route. Given subcutaneously, GHRP-2 has only a brief effect and does not elevate pulsatile GH secretion through the night. A sustained-release formulation might have such an effect, but it is also possible that oral GHRP-2 will have a longer duration of action based upon the kinetics of absorption, and sustained-release oral preparations may be easier to formulate than long-acting injections.
Last question now...so what would you suggest as the most efficient means to increase GH levels safely without shutdown after prolonged useage?
07-19-2008, 08:26 PM
It does have very good feedback on 1fast so who knows, I noticed hair and nails growing faster on PowerFull within the first week so yes it is very possible for him to being feeling it as fast as he says.
07-19-2008, 09:41 PM
im interested in powerfull also bro, how did you like it?? Also, by what method does gh increase occurr with this type of product? I hear alot about powerfull and have taken alot of supps, but idk anything about powerfull.
07-20-2008, 04:31 AM
Sorry bro but after this I'm done with this thread. I can tell by your last question that you never read the guides I wrote and posted at: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1...dat-s-cjc.html
Why bother arguing with someone about something which is a basic established fact. GHRPs have a low oral bioavailability. They are orally bioavailabe...but not highly so. The oral bioavailability is less then 1%. There are studies where it was administered orally at I believe 25mg per dose.
They are also bioavailable via intranasal administration.
Again the dose has to be much higher than that used by injection.
Did you read the complete study you posted?
They used subcutaneous injection not oral administration.
Here this is from the "Subjects and Methods" section of that study:
Parents were instructed in sc injection technique using insulin syringes. After baseline assessment, patients were treated for successive 2-month periods with daily bedtime injections of GHRP-2 in doses of 0.3, 1.0, and 3.0 µg/kg. During a final 2-month period, patients received both 3.0 µg/kg GHRP-2 and 3.0 µg/kg GHRH at separate injection sites. Patients and parents were instructed to report any side effects and remained in frequent contact with study personnel.
You want to read a study where a GHRP was used orally? Here is an abstract where GHRP-6 was given orally. Note the dose 300mcg/kg which means 30mg for a 100kg man. You do realize that the retail price of a single dose using this protocol would mean about $300.
The result was less GH release than that illicited by GHRP-6 given subcutaneously at 1mcg/kg or 100mcg....which by-the-way is 300 times smaller than the dose given here by oral administration.
Here is the abstract:
European Journal of Endocrinology, Vol 133, Issue 4, 425-429
Growth hormone-releasing effect of oral growth hormone-releasing peptide 6 (GHRP-6) administration in children with short stature
Growth hormone-releasing peptide 6 (GHRP-6) is a synthetic hexapeptide with a potent GH-releasing activity after intravenous, subcutaneous, intranasal and oral administration in man. Previous data showed its activity also in some patients with GH deficiency. The aim of our study was to verify the GH-releasing activity of oral GHRP-6 administration on GH secretion in children with normal short stature.
The effect of oral GHRP-6 (300 micrograms/kg) was compared with that of the maximally effective dose of intravenous GH-releasing hormone (GHRH-29, 1 microgram/kg). As the GHRH-induced GH rise in children is potentiated by arginine (ARG), even when administered by oral route at low dose (4 g), we studied also the interaction of oral GHRP-6 and ARG administration.
We studied 13 children (nine boys and four girls aged 6.2-10.5 years, pubertal stage I) with normal short stature (height less than -2 SD score; height velocity more than -2 SD score; normal bone age; insulin-like growth factor I > 70 micrograms/l).
In a first group of children (N = 7), oral GHRP-6 administration induced a GH response (mean +/- SEM; peak at 60 min vs baseline: 18.8 +/- 3.0 vs 1.1 +/- 0.3 micrograms/l, p < 0.0006; area under curve: 1527.3 +/- 263.9 micrograms l-1 h-1) which was similar to that elicited by GHRH (peak at 45 min vs baseline: 20.8 +/- 4.5 vs 2.2 +/- 0.9 micrograms/l, p < 0.007; area under curve: 1429.4 +/- 248.2 micrograms l-1 h-1).(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
07-20-2008, 08:21 AM
Here is a quote from a study by the discoverer of GHRPs. Keep in mind 1ug = 1 mcg. Taken from:
"The growth hormone-releasing activity of a synthetic hexapeptide in normal men and short statured children after oral administration"
CY Bowers, DK Alster, and JM Frentz, J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Feb 1992; 74: 292 - 298
...Since 300 ug/kg oral GHRP released about the same amount of GH as 1 ug/kg, iv, in normal men, it was calculated that oral GHRP has about 0.3% the activity of iv GHRP....
So GHRPs end up being 333 times less effective when taken orally. That is LOW bioavailability. Yes SOME bioavailability (0.3%) but it is very LOW.
07-20-2008, 09:45 AM
Food for thought:
Every single individual will act differently to every single substance
VPX may have a better delivery system than in these studies
And I'll end by saying this, my wife is an ICU nurse and she tells me some ****ed up stories of things that people do to end up on their death beds, and you'd be amazed at how little, or sometimes how much people need to OD on certain substances before their body even reacts to them.....Im not going into detail here because its off topic, but just keep in mind that science is an evolving thing and a study based on a few subjects makes nothing fact, including VPX's assessment of their trial results.
I'm simply posting my results with a products, and was interested to see if anyone had similar results.
Thank you for your input it actually was fairly interesting reading.
07-20-2008, 10:29 AM
- 6'0" 197 lbs.
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
I have gone thru a bottle of PowerFULL. The only thing that I noticed was a deeper sleep via my waking up groggy and remembering dreams which I rarely do even though I have no trouble sleeping. Everything I have read and heard about HGH from people that have actually used it and not from studies which mostly have their own agendas...HELLO? is that it takes 3-6 months to notice results from injections.
In summary...increasing normal HGH production would take take the same amount of time to see the results.
The Placebo effect is more real than immediate results. I see it all the time. People are brainwashed for instant gratification. The reason you hear soo much about Powerfull is because it makes people sleep better...not unlike ZMA, and many people have trouble sleeping...as you know.
07-20-2008, 01:07 PM
yea I swear by ZMA myself....makes me sleep like a baby.
07-20-2008, 02:02 PM
07-20-2008, 02:32 PM
when you say recomp effects, please explain. Do you mean simply adding more mass, or actually exaggurated development of cells, joint strength and build (i.e. bone mass)? Thanks!
07-20-2008, 11:56 PM
- 5'11" 240 lbs.
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Rep Power
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you are so sold on this product already, ive no idea why you even asked for input?
everything Dat wrote is true, research based fact.
the research, if you can call it that, you refer to is what usually happens when a supplement company carries it out. they twist the results, add stuff from other studies taking leaps of faith to form a conclusion that will sell their product.
keep using it, while us who want real results will use real peptides.
i wish you luck.
07-21-2008, 12:10 AM
From the Hemogex sales site
I openly admit that when it comes to the bio-chemistry of most of the stuff talked about here, I am a complete idiot. But I can tell you why you are feeling "good" on this stuff.The formula includes the minerals Zinc, Chromium and Magnesium, the B vitamin Niacin and Arginine Ethyl Ester, plus Growth Hormone-releasing peptides.
You sleep better because Magnesium is a natural muscle relaxer. It is often combined with Zinc. I take ZMA before bed and swear by it. Your Test goes up when doing ZMA because you are resting better.
You may be energized due to the B vitamins and Niacin.
Arginine is a well know vasodialtor. That is one of the reason products like this are marketed to older men. They wake up with their first chunk of morning wood in ages and they believe the GH is up. It isn't, the blood vessels are opened more, thats all. It has been used for years to help put lead back in the old pencil for years before Viagra.
And what the hell they mean by GH releasing peptides is anyone's guess.
You can do better and cheaper by buying the ingredients in bulk and capping them yourself. This stuff probably does make you feel great. Your GH may very well be going up, mainly because of the better sleep you are getting. If it works for you, well have at it. There are cheaper ways (and probably more effective) to get what you are doing.
07-21-2008, 09:52 AM
pumbertot, I didnt ask for advice from anyone, I was asking to see if anyone had similar results...lol.
Again I'm not sold on anything, or even really arguing a point, just looking to see what type of results people have posted with this product..that's all. So by all means if you have used the product, please let me know if it did anything for you.
And people that have never run real GH cycles probably shouldn't comment on that effectiveness either (i.e. 3-6 months for results), however if you have used it well then great please share your results!! I'd love to hear about it.
And I know all about ZMA, I've been taking it on and off for the last 5 or 6 years and I agree it is an excellent basic staple in anyone's supplement program.
07-21-2008, 11:42 AM
- 5'11" 240 lbs.
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
yeah ive run long cycles of GH and its great. but at the moment im more using peptides for their tendon building properties, approaching 5 weeks since my pec repair with 2 donor tendons.
that aside ive barley lost any size considering I havent trained upper body in over 6 weeks and only moderate weight and restricted leg work(for obvious reasons). I attribute this mainly to GH with some credit going to the igf/mgf ive been running on and off.
my advice, keep using this if you feel it works but get yourself on some GH, its very cheap if you can find the 'correct' sources, and it works very well
oh and ICU nurse, been there done that.
07-25-2008, 04:41 PM
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