First IGF usage today

[Newbie40plus]

Injected 40mcg bi-laterally into anterior forearms pwo. First time injecting anything. Felt a burn, not bad, doing the first 1/2 of the injection so I thought mabye the aa/igf was unevently distributed toward the front of the pin so I put 3/5ths in that arm to get some extra ba in there just in case.

The other 2/5ths went in the other anterior forearm and I screwed up majorly by not swabbing the inection site before injecting. I will be monitoring the site to see if it becomes red/swollen.. ie seems like an infection is developing. I hope I don't get an abscess.

 

[Bobaslaw]

Injected 40mcg bi-laterally into anterior forearms pwo. First time injecting anything. Felt a burn, not bad, doing the first 1/2 of the injection so I thought mabye the aa/igf was unevently distributed toward the front of the pin so I put 3/5ths in that arm to get some extra ba in there just in case.

The other 2/5ths went in the other anterior forearm and I screwed up majorly by not swabbing the inection site before injecting. I will be monitoring the site to see if it becomes red/swollen.. ie seems like an infection is developing. I hope I don't get an abscess.

I seriously hope you have a typo in there since you use BW (Bacteriostatic Water that is .9% Benzyl Alcohol) to dilute IGF/AA, and not straight Benzyl Alcohol (BA)...
BA will be pretty uncomfortable if used on its own and definitely not something you dilute with...
You ONLY dilute with either BW or NaCL .9%

If you use one pin for both injects and you want to be sure your dilution is even, flip the pin before removing the air and have the air bubble traverse the barrel a couple times..

As far as the possible infection, what symptoms do you have to make you think you may be getting an infection. How long since that injection has it been? Depending on the answer and whether this is the case, Antibiotics might be something you'd want to start on Asap,just incase...

 

[datBtrue]

Injected 40mcg bi-laterally into anterior forearms pwo. First time injecting anything. Felt a burn, not bad, doing the first 1/2 of the injection so I thought mabye the aa/igf was unevently distributed toward the front of the pin so I put 3/5ths in that arm to get some extra ba in there just in case.

The other 2/5ths went in the other anterior forearm...

Don't you think you are overdoing it a bit? That needle will get more and more blunt w/ each poke through the stopper and your skin. It WILL hurt to use a blunt needle.

You could alternate 40mcg in the left forearm...next time you put all 40mcg in the right forearm.

I screwed up majorly by not swabbing the inection site before injecting. I will be monitoring the site to see if it becomes red/swollen.. ie seems like an infection is developing. I hope I don't get an abscess.

You'll be fine. You won't get an abscess... By-the-way pinning with an insulin needle is nothing like pinning an inch to one & a half inches deep with a pin full of oil based solution (and bacteria along for the ride).

No worries bro. Bacteria just below the surface of the skin is easy to treat...little more than pimple puss.

 

[Bobaslaw]

Don't you think you are overdoing it a bit? That needle will get more and more blunt w/ each poke through the stopper and your skin. It WILL hurt to use a blunt needle.

I use one pin through 2 stoppers and 2 pin sites witn no issue. I can guarantee you that I have no significant increased resistance in pinning the second site at all. Definitely no pain... like butter just as the 1st.. But that's just my own experience using 1cc and 1/2 cc u-100 terumos. Who knows the quality of different brand pins or whether the stoppers anyone else has are thicker/harder than mine, etc...

You'll be fine. You won't get an abscess... By-the-way pinning with an insulin needle is nothing like pinning an inch to one & a half inches deep with a pin full of oil based solution (and bacteria along for the ride).

No worries bro. Bacteria just below the surface of the skin is easy to treat...little more than pimple puss.

That's a positive note as I trust your experience Dat, however, I myself cannot guarantee what was on his forearms before the unsterile inject. For all I know he could have been pig wrestling in the local dung wallow while breaking the necks of bird flu infected chickens just before pinning. (part time job for KFC)
I jest with the assuption but just the same, I cannot guarantee what pathogens may have been on his forearm at the time.

 

[datBtrue]

I use one pin through 2 stoppers and 2 pin sites witn no issue. I can guarantee you that I have no significant increased resistance in pinning the second site at all. Definitely no pain... like butter just as the 1st.. But that's just my own experience using 1cc and 1/2 cc u-100 terumos. Who knows the quality of different brand pins or whether the stoppers anyone else has are thicker/harder than mine, etc...

Oh I misread. I thought he pinned both arms & then went back again to the 2nd forearm to top it off. I pictured him going a little on the left...a little on the right...a teeny bit more left...a touch more on the right.

I guess I'm the one over-thinking it. Sorry guys.

I myself cannot guarantee what was on his forearms before the unsterile inject. For all I know he could have been pig wrestling in the local dung wallow while breaking the necks of bird flu infected chickens just before pinning. (part time job for KFC)
I jest with the assuption but just the same, I cannot guarantee what pathogens may have been on his forearm at the time.

Yep ...of course you don't have a doctor-patient relationship with him. He didn't pay you a fee... Unless all of this "advising" took place in Cali I think its fair to say neither one of us will be sued.

I'm only dealing in probabilities B... he already knows of the possibilities ...no need to over-emphasize what is merely possible.

 

[Bobaslaw]

I'm only dealing in probabilities B... he already knows of the possibilities ...no need to over-emphasize what is merely possible.

Ya I know Dat, but the fact is I was destined to use a lame chicken neck breaking analogy at some point today

 

[Newbie40plus]

I seriously hope you have a typo in there since you use BW (Bacteriostatic Water that is .9% Benzyl Alcohol) to dilute IGF/AA,

Yes I made a typo I diluted with BW, sorry.

 

[Graglor]

How often are you going to pin a week?
How many weeks are you using igf?
Are you sticking with 40mcgs?

I'll be watching.

 

[papapumpsd]

Newbie, is this protocol for injury repair or general mass gain/hyperplasia?

I would appreciate some starting weight numbers and/or photos to help determine progress.

Good luck man.

 

[Newbie40plus]

Newbie, is this protocol for injury repair or general mass gain/hyperplasia?

I would appreciate some starting weight numbers and/or photos to help determine progress.

Good luck man.

Hyperplasia.

I'm 6'2", 244 lbs today down from 246.5 yesterday and 250 a month ago....down from 285lbs in January 08.

When I dropped from 285 to 255 (Jan-March) I changed up from keto diet to eating clean but low carbs, added in healthy fats soon thereafter and started lifting weights.

I am in the process of body comp transformation (i.e. fat reduction, lean muscle addition). Neither takes presedence over the other. I have a pic when I was 295lbs last summer and one from Mar 08 showing the wt. loss side shot upper body. That's it.

My goal is continued slow wt reduction with increased lean muscle mass until I hit....not sure, maybe 220lbs., but at some point I will focus on bulking, not sure how the #'s will play out with fat>muscle over the next several months/year or so. I'm evaluating on an ongoing basis based but am too fat to 'bulk' (and most will prob say too fat to use IGF or anavar which I will be taking in a vew months). I'm 41yrs old and am not going to 'max out naturally' before using substances (obvioulsly since I"m using IGF already lol).

 

[papapumpsd]

Hyperplasia.

I'm 6'2", 244 lbs today down from 246.5 yesterday and 250 a month ago....down from 285lbs in January 08.

When I dropped from 285 to 255 (Jan-March) I changed up from keto diet to eating clean but low carbs, added in healthy fats soon thereafter and started lifting weights.

I am in the process of body comp transformation (i.e. fat reduction, lean muscle addition). Neither takes presedence over the other. I have a pic when I was 295lbs last summer and one from Mar 08 showing the wt. loss side shot upper body. That's it.

My goal is continued slow wt reduction with increased lean muscle mass until I hit....not sure, maybe 220lbs., but at some point I will focus on bulking, not sure how the #'s will play out with fat>muscle over the next several months/year or so. I'm evaluating on an ongoing basis based but am too fat to 'bulk' (and most will prob say too fat to use IGF or anavar which I will be taking in a vew months). I'm 41yrs old and am not going to 'max out naturally' before using substances (obvioulsly since I"m using IGF already lol).

Well, are you low-carb dieting now, while on IGF-1? Are you eating to support the muscle gains from this substance, or are you eating to lose weight? Big difference here.

 

[Newbie40plus]

Well, are you low-carb dieting now, while on IGF-1? Are you eating to support the muscle gains from this substance, or are you eating to lose weight? Big difference here.

I"m not low carb dieting. I have also been taking halodrol for the past 4 days and it's eating into my appetite and making me drink water like crazy. I noticed this yesterday and as of today am finding that I am having to force my meals which is a new and interesting change for me.

I"m not low carb dieting per se, although my carb intake is prob 5-10% less than average month to month (there is a risk of me turning back into a bad carb pig so this might be less than optimal but worth the tradeoff given the risk of loosing control IMO). I also feed good pre workout and pwo. I haven't gotten my diet down to being really on top of the breakdown %'s of protein/fats/carbs in each meal. I go by look and feel while knowing cal's of the foods and the way they break down protein/carb/fats.

 

[Graglor]

I"m not low carb dieting. I have also been taking halodrol for the past 4 days and it's eating into my appetite and making me drink water like crazy. I noticed this yesterday and as of today am finding that I am having to force my meals which is a new and interesting change for me.

I"m not low carb dieting per se, although my carb intake is prob 5-10% less than average month to month (there is a risk of me turning back into a bad carb pig so this might be less than optimal but worth the tradeoff given the risk of loosing control IMO). I also feed good pre workout and pwo. I haven't gotten my diet down to being really on top of the breakdown %'s of protein/fats/carbs in each meal. I go by look and feel while knowing cal's of the foods and the way they break down protein/carb/fats.

Two days after long r3-igf (40mcg pwo eod) I feel like eating everything in site. It's important to stick with a smart diet for the supp your taking though. Otherwise there is no point in spending the time and money. Hopefully you got good igf. A good sign is an arthritic feeling in the hands and wrists after a few days. Your smart to loose excess fat before bulking, just make sure you take a carb shake after pinning. Your body will release/produce more GH that way and you won't go hypo and get the shakes. Just advise from personal expriance. You still haven't answered my other questions though:hammer:

 

[Newbie40plus]

Two days after long r3-igf (40mcg pwo eod) I feel like eating everything in site. It's important to stick with a smart diet for the supp your taking though. Otherwise there is no point in spending the time and money. Hopefully you got good igf. A good sign is an arthritic feeling in the hands and wrists after a few days. Your smart to loose excess fat before bulking, just make sure you take a carb shake after pinning. Your body will release/produce more GH that way and you won't go hypo and get the shakes. Just advise from personal expriance. You still haven't answered my other questions though:hammer:

I don't drink a carb shake but I chow 2 banana's or a banana and a couple big handfuls of red seedless grapes as I'm wrapping up my workout and then down 60-70g's of whey protein mixed with H2O. I always get tired pwo after my eating routine (and my belly is bloated as I'm drinking lots of h2o during wo plus creatine preworkout and a big meal ~ 2 hrs before workout (carbs/protein only) but yesterday I was whiped for a complete 1 hr (usually it's 1/2 hr and tired but not whiped) and I only did biceps. I usually do upper and lower abs when I do bi's). Not sure if this has anything to do with IGF or if my nutrion pre and post is ideal. I also got very hungry 1 1/2 hrs pwo which is not very typical for me, I get mild cravings for fat/carb but not like yesterday. Total carb cravings. I'm still new so have a lot to learn.

I have a mild arthritic feeling in my right hand and the thumb of my left hand, although my reconstitution of the igf was less than ideal as I didn't have a proper size pin to vent the igf vial with making it hard to drip drop by drop the aa down the vial so at this point I'm not sure if I destroyed the whole mg or damaged/weakened it. It was also my first time ever handling a syringe

I also failed to mention that I also take modafonial which has an appetite suppressing effect on me (which wore off when I was taking it daily but 2 weeks ago started to take it sporatically so that might have increased my appetite suppression and it's still unclear to me if halodrol has any impact in this regard.

 

[Newbie40plus]

How often are you going to pin a week?
How many weeks are you using igf?
Are you sticking with 40mcgs?

I'll be watching.

I"m pinning every other day.
I will be using 1mg so ~ 50 days depending on how much I vary from that schedule.
I plan to stick with 40mcg throughout.

 

[Newbie40plus]

I'm also down another pound today despite that heavy craving 1 1/2 hrs pwo yesterday I mentioned above (in which I gorged on some home made cake my wife made-no frosting though but not healthy carbs for sure). Over the past few months I would always be UP 1- 1 1/2 lbs. the day followng such a bad eating binge.

 

[Bobaslaw]

Hopefully you got good igf. A good sign is an arthritic feeling in the hands and wrists after a few days.

Interesting. This is a common side of GH use and not attributed to IGF-1. Usually due to GH related fluid retention mediated by GH's effect on vasopressin (anti diuretic hormone) thus fluid retention in affected tissues. Not saying that you may not have experienced this, however, no one I know has ever exhibited these sides from IGF-1 itself...

Your smart to loose excess fat before bulking, just make sure you take a carb shake after pinning. Your body will release/produce more GH that way and you won't go hypo and get the shakes.

Not disputing the carbs with IGF, however, it is an incorrect statement regarding increse production of GH.
Plasma glucose is actually a direct agonist of increased somatostatin release thus increased somatostatin tone. This actually blunts GH release due to direct inhibitory effects on the pituitary somatotroph.

Take Care.

 

[Graglor]

Interesting. This is a common side of GH use and not attributed to IGF-1. Usually due to GH related fluid retention mediated by GH's effect on vasopressin (anti diuretic hormone) thus fluid retention in affected tissues. Not saying that you may not have experienced this, however, no one I know has ever exhibited these sides from IGF-1 itself...

Like I said, it's from personal experiance and also stated in Grunt76's thread that it's a sign of good long r3-igf. I get this every time.

Not disputing the carbs with IGF, however, it is an incorrect statement regarding increse production of GH.
Plasma glucose is actually a direct agonist of increased somatostatin release thus increased somatostatin tone. This actually blunts GH release due to direct inhibitory effects on the pituitary somatotroph.



Take Care.

Got me on that one though. Thought I had it right, but as far as GH goes, your right, need the blood sugars low before and during workout. Still a good idea though to have a carb shake PWO to reduce the risk of hypo. Next time though, go to laymen's terms for a quicker response.

 

[Bobaslaw]

Got me on that one though. Thought I had it right, but as far as GH goes, your right, need the blood sugars low before and during workout. Still a good idea though to have a carb shake PWO to reduce the risk of hypo. Next time though, go to laymen's terms for a quicker response.

I totally agree there, I would never sacrifice PWO nutrition for such a reason. The carbs are necessary during this time period more so than any added increase in GH output during this time if carbs were not utilized...

 

[TripDog]

I totally agree there, I would never sacrifice PWO nutrition for such a reason. The carbs are necessary during this time period more so than any added increase in GH output during this time if carbs were not utilized...

Agreed

 

[Newbie40plus]

Well I went a few days without working out due to a crazy work schedule that couldn't be avoided over the weekend.

I'm still a wuss in the training regimin, hitting only 1 or 2 muscle groups per workout and not doing compound exercises.

Anyway I hit my biceps Sunday and then the posterior forearms for a real quick workout Monday and then the anterior forearms this morning. 3 days in a row of 40mcg bi-laterally.

The part I love is that working out at home I can prep my pins partway through and then burn out my muscle to the max and inject 30 seconds later. When I go to do the other side I do another drop set and max out that muscle and hit that with the IGF w/in 30 seconds.

Hopefully using this dose 3 days consecutively won't be any kind of major problem.

I know I"m still new to lifting but I continue to notice gains at each muscle after each and every workout (this was before IGF as well).

I love hitting my forearms with IGF. Popeye is my hero!

I know a lot (all lol) of you guys think I"m messing with substances prematurely. Maybe your right. I can live with that. My main concerns is knowing the risks. I do do research prior to using anything and am 41 and have learned a lot from dumb decisions I've made in my youth.

Still need to get a heavier set of dumbells for the home and am waiting on pegmgf.

Rough plan 6 months out- join a gym and start an anavar cycle, possibly with a low/lowish dose of test prop.

I know, max out naturally first and get my diet perfect re: grams of carbs/proteins/fats and the correct %'s (i've got the meals spaced good and I'm certainly consuming plenty of protein). At 41 and easily a candidate for hormone replacement therapy at an anit aging clinic I don't think I"m making any terrible mistakes. They would hit me up with GH and cyp even if my diet was crap (and it would benefit me).

 

[papapumpsd]

Well I went a few days without working out due to a crazy work schedule that couldn't be avoided over the weekend.

I'm still a wuss in the training regimin, hitting only 1 or 2 muscle groups per workout and not doing compound exercises.

Anyway I hit my biceps Sunday and then the posterior forearms for a real quick workout Monday and then the anterior forearms this morning. 3 days in a row of 40mcg bi-laterally.

The part I love is that working out at home I can prep my pins partway through and then burn out my muscle to the max and inject 30 seconds later. When I go to do the other side I do another drop set and max out that muscle and hit that with the IGF w/in 30 seconds.

Hopefully using this dose 3 days consecutively won't be any kind of major problem.

I know I"m still new to lifting but I continue to notice gains at each muscle after each and every workout (this was before IGF as well).

I love hitting my forearms with IGF. Popeye is my hero!

I know a lot (all lol) of you guys think I"m messing with substances prematurely. Maybe your right. I can live with that. My main concerns is knowing the risks. I do do research prior to using anything and am 41 and have learned a lot from dumb decisions I've made in my youth.

Still need to get a heavier set of dumbells for the home and am waiting on pegmgf.

Rough plan 6 months out- join a gym and start an anavar cycle, possibly with a low/lowish dose of test prop.

I know, max out naturally first and get my diet perfect re: grams of carbs/proteins/fats and the correct %'s (i've got the meals spaced good and I'm certainly consuming plenty of protein). At 41 and easily a candidate for hormone replacement therapy at an anit aging clinic I don't think I"m making any terrible mistakes. They would hit me up with GH and cyp even if my diet was crap (and it would benefit me).

Hey Newbie, I hope all is going well. If you haven't had a chance yet, read the post on IGF-1 and Cancer (Trip posted it). It's def. something to keep in mind as you continue to research IGF-1 and other peptides. Understanding risks is MORE important than understanding potential gains (IMO). :head:

EDIT: Here's the link: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/96759-igf-1-cancer.html

-Papa!-

 

[Newbie40plus]

Thanks Papa, I read the cancer thread. I missed a workout yesterday so I'm doing both posterior and anterior forearms right now. I'm gonna pin both posterior forearms and my weaker anterior forearm as well for 60mcg total today. Got a few more sets to do, they are burning like crazy. I'm a popeye freak lol

 

[beefjerky]

I don't get it, why no proper diet, why no compound exercises, etc?

 

[Newbie40plus]

I'm up 6.5 lbs from 12 days ago all in the arms and shoulders. I can really notice the diff in the mirror as well. I have been chewing on some halodrol too though, it's done today. Nice and hard muscles too (for my lame non muscular size lol) not soft and water weight. I am expecting to start some pegmgf in the very near future, like this week, unless I decide to finnish off this mg of lr3 before starting it.

I think my diet is OK, could be better. In fact it was better until I started working an additional 25hrs/wk at odd hours which really threw off my meal prep routine. I still eat the right foods, I just don't have a meal plan all worked out with %'s of carbs/protein/fats nor specific mixtures of those on a per meal basis. It will come in time. I'm 41 and am all about shortcuts now.

I know my lifting routine is mega weak compared to everyone elses here lol. I'll get there though.

I'll probably run another keto diet to drop 20-30lbs or so when I finnish off the igf and mgf and then start anavar when I join a gym, I've got access to a good supply. I might run that solo or use some prop too, depends on how solid my diet is at that point and if the wife is prego by then.

I've got a really good frame and I think pretty good genetics for putting on muscle but I am only going to lean bulk. I don't want to blow up and then shrink, blow up and shrink...

I'm doing pretty good for a guy who was 295lbs last summer living on burger king, pizza, pasta, and other misc fast foods.

I'm 41 and also will admit that I am stubborn so while I honestly appreciate all suggestions, recommendations, guidance, and especially concrete info on risks vs. rewards, I am not taking the slow and steady course of substance free lifting, get diet perfect % wise and broken down perfect % wise for each meal and spending 4-5 years building my body without chemical enhancement.

I take chemical enhancement substances to relax at times, to help me sleep at times, also to help me be productive at work. I am pretty risk adverse and like to research risks, but have no qualms about better living through modern chemistry.

It will be interesting to see how my body pans out in a year or 2 compared to the first pic I put up of myself at another site weighing in at 295lbs and a 44 in waist. Now I'm wearing 38's and they are getting a little loose, although I can't fit into 36's yet

As for the reason no compound exercises: I work out at home and only have dumbbells, not heavy enough to work my back or do squats or dead lifts. I know, I know, join a gym.... I will. I am already proud of the progress I have made and continue to make progress, I'm just doing it by moving into using substances much sooner than most...but hey....if I went and saw an anti aging doc who would hit me up with GH and test cyp even if my diet was all burger king and pizza..... (and trust me the fat would start to come off with proper hrt)....it's not like I"m doing everything wrong. I'm anxious to produce results. I'm not taking any major risks (well with the peptides there are risks but that is true with ppl at 275lbs and 8% bf too) and am getting results I'm satisfied with, although I know I need to and want to and am striving to improve on all fronts, diet, lifting...

 

[beefjerky]

Holy ****.

Someone tear him apart!

I'd say give him advice, but I think he knows how much he's ****ing up.

 

[Newbie40plus]

Holy ****.

Someone tear him apart!

I'd say give him advice, but I think he knows how much he's ****ing up.

I'm more than happy to receive education on risks that I am encountering based on what I am doing. I'm acutally more than happy to get any feedback from anyone (execpt those trying to be a **** on purpose) as information is power.

But what major risks am I encountering (save the igf mgf research chems) by doing what I am doing? I realize I am getting much less than optimal results than I would if my diet and exercise routines were perfect, but are there significant risks by having a fair diet and weak work out schedule/routine and using supplements?

What are you afraid/saying/thinking/know is actually going to happen to me that is bad (save the risks re: peptides)?

 

[Newbie40plus]

Well I just got my pegmgf today. 4 2mg vials. I reconstituted one and injected 125mcg bi-laterally (wanted to go light for my first injection) into my biceps. I plan to work my biceps hard tomorrow and also hit them with 40mcg of lr3 igf immediately pwo.

I'm also talking 6-oxo and novedex xt and will be for a couple more weeks. Within the next week I"m going to cap up some 50x tongkat ali extract powder and start taking 2-3 grams of that a day for ~ 1 month.

Then I think I'm gonna take a break from using any substances load up on nutrients and do another keto diet for a couple months, I'll have to estimate a target weight at the start.

 

[Grunt76]

Hello Newbie,

Personally I think doing it at all is what matters. You *WILL* join a gym eventually, right?

And you are right, you're not 19, there isn't that much time to play around with going natural and then turning 50. Get what you can while you can, but I urge you to consider even better eating and better training. Together they WILL do more for you than *ANY* combination of AAS and peptides.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Newbie40plus]

Hello Newbie,

Personally I think doing it at all is what matters. You *WILL* join a gym eventually, right?

And you are right, you're not 19, there isn't that much time to play around with going natural and then turning 50. Get what you can while you can, but I urge you to consider even better eating and better training. Together they WILL do more for you than *ANY* combination of AAS and peptides.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the support Grunt, and for understanding my perspective as someone who is 41 as opposed to 19. Posts like this really motivate me to push myself to imrpove my diet. I know its really all diet, proper training, and proper rest. I really do know that.

I'm struggling to overcome 20 years of marginal/poor eating habbits and NO exercise. That is not going to move from crap to perfect overnight, not even within 6 months (without slips and slides, and continued learning and tweaking).

And YES I am FOR SURE going to join a gym. My wife joined one last month. I"m taking things slow with workouts, partly out of lazyness/varying motivation, partly b/c of ego (I want a bit of a bod before I join), and partly b/c I don't want to injure myself and feel as though I will push myself too hard at the gym prematurely. I need to get my body used to exercising and moving weights. I injured myself at age 25 after 5 years of not touching a weigth and going all out from day 1, I don't need that at age 41 lol.

So thanks for the support and encouragement. I am being careful and not going hog wild. I'm sitting on anavar, syno, and fina for the past month and have not converted the last 2nor cracked open the 1st. I realize diet is key as is a soild workout routine and rest. If I was going to be a dumbass I would be chewing on the var right now to loose weight and have the other 2 converted so I could do a prop and tren cycle (possibly along with var) as a 2nd cycle asap.

That is not what I am doing, and I have plenty of var, enough for like three 9 week cycles at ~50mg/day. If I was totally trying to take every shortcut out there I would definitely be eating this instead of patiently waiting for the right time (or at least when I am much better prepared).