IGF math lesson. Help

[glipp]

I used the below method to reconstitute my IGF-1 LR3. I actually used the method where you draw 7.5 ml's distilled water and 1ml vinegar into a 10 ml syringe. I then reconstituted igf w/ 5 ml of mixed solution. My question is I am using 1ml slin pin at what mark would I have 20 mcg? Not a math major here. By the way have 1 mg IGF. Thanks for any help.

Here you go:

Reconstituting IGF - Using Distilled White Vinegar for Acetic Acid

I began using this method many months ago ... mainly out of impatience. I was out of Benzyl Alcohol, and while I had access to HCl, it wasn't accessible when I wanted to begin my Long R3 IGF-1 cycle. I decided to use plain ol' grocery store Distilled White Vinegar. I used the following, which has worked out really well for me....and the feedback I have had from others that I have shared it with has been positive so far. So here it is for anyone that is interested:

The calculation:
Distilled white vinegar is supposed to be standardized to ~5% acetic acid, which would make it 850mM. To get it to the recommended 100mM, you'd want 11.76% white vinegar (100mM/850mM = 11.76%). Since it would be almost impossible to draw out 11.76IU's, I round this to 12, which is certainly going to be close to our desired 100mM.

The filtering process:
I use off the shelf grocery store distilled white vinegar. In order to ensure safety, I filter it using .20u whatman filters. Here is the step by step for those that may not be familiar with filtering using whatmans. What you will want to have on hand before starting out is some sterile vials, some .20u whatman filters, some syringes and needles (I use a 10cc syringe, and .23 gauge 1" needles), and some alcohol swabs.

(1) First draw up about 10cc of the distilled white vinegar
(2) screw on the .20u whatman to the 10cc syringe (or whatever size you use)
(3) screw on a .23 gauge needle (or whatever size you decide to use)
(4) take your sterile vial, swab the top with alcohol, insert a needle for venting.
(5) Insert your syringe/whatman/needle apparatus and slowly push the 10cc's into the sterile vial.

Now you have safe vinegar to use for your reconstituting.

ALTERNATE METHOD - Alternately, you could simply mix your water and distilled white vinegar before filtering using about 7.5 parts of water per 1 part of distilled white vinegar. After mixing these together in this ratio, run the mixture through your .20u whatman as above. You will end up with a vial of dilutent this way that has the proper PH for use with your IGF-1.

Reconstituting:

How much water/vinegar you reconstitute with is going to somewhat depend on which LR3 IGF-1 you are using. Igtropin is shipped in 100mcg vials, which I usually reconstitute at 1ml(cc) per 100mcg vial (which will make the 10 mark on your insulin syringe = 10 mcgs). The gropep based IGF-1's are primarily shipped in 1mg vials, and I usually use 5ml for these (which will make the 10 mark on your insulin syringe = 20mcgs).
At any rate, what I do is:

(1) take an alcohol swab and swab the tops of my water, vinegar solution, and IGF-1 vials
(2) take a syringe with a 23 gauge, 1" needle and draw out .12 cc's of vinegar for the 100mcg vials or .60 cc's for the 1mg vials.
(3) next I take this syringe and draw out the water - .88cc's for 100mcg, 4.4cc's for the 1mg.

FOR ALTERNATE METHOD in lieu of steps (2) and (3) - Just draw out the desired amount of dilutent from your pre-mixed vial of
vinegar / water.

(4) next i poke the needle into the LR3 IGF-1 vial and dribble this solution down the side of the vial, avoid any direct spray on the lyophilized powder until all of the dilutent is in the vial
(5) using a gentle swirling motion, I reconstitute the powder.
(6) I stick the vial in the fridge and it is now ready for use.

Well, I think that about sums it up. Hope this helps anyone who may have been wondering about using vinegar to reconstitute. I would advise that if you end up using Igtropin, you seriously consider using this vinegar method. Igtropin and other dilutents such as BA do not get along well together at all.

RedBaron @ IFL



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[pumbertot]

so you used 5ml diluent with 1mg igf? ok so thats 200mcg for every 1ml liquid. so if using a 100IU slin pin 20mcg would be 10IU mark on the slin pin.

 

[glipp]

so you used 5ml diluent with 1mg igf? ok so thats 200mcg for every 1ml liquid. so if using a 100IU slin pin 20mcg would be 10IU mark on the slin pin.

Cool, I appreciate it. So to the 10 mark = 20 mcg. I am horrible at figuring this stuff out and got as far as I could with the write up, but wanted to make sure so I was dosing it right. I appreciate it immensely. Time for fun. :clean:

 

[pumbertot]

Cool, I appreciate it. So to the 10 mark = 20 mcg. I am horrible at figuring this stuff out and got as far as I could with the write up, but wanted to make sure so I was dosing it right. I appreciate it immensely. Time for fun. :clean:

no problems, have fun.

 

[papapumpsd]

This is a great thread. I have a bit of a variation from what glipp used for slinpin.

I just purchased 0.5cc 1/2" needle slinpins. I will be using distilled vinegar diluted with BW: 7.5mL H2O + 1mL vinegar, then running this through a 0.22um Watman filter into a sterile vial. Next, I will add 1mL of this sterile dilute AA solution to my 1mg IGF-1lr3.

I purchased these slins because I read that 1iu = 10ug (aka, each "tick" on the 1/2cc pin = 1iu) when you have a 1mg/mL IGF-1 solution in AA.

I plan on dosing 40ug bilaterally E3D. But I have to back-load with BW. I'm planning on back-loading 5:1; BW:AA-IGF1. Or 4:1???

Can someone please clarify WTH I'm supposed to do here? I'm not familiar with IUs at all.

So my IGF-1 has been reconstituted with 1mL AA (diluted vinegar). I get that. Now I have to suck up my IGF-1 soln. 1st, then BW. How much of each????

Is this correct?

Boba, I read your answer here: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/91380-igf-1-lr3.html

BUT I HAVE A 0.5CC SLIN!

 

[pumbertot]

if your syringes are marked 50iu when full then all calculations are the same as for the 1ml 100iu syringes.

i.e. draw bw the same as that thread with bobas answer.

 

[papapumpsd]

if your syringes are marked 50iu when full then all calculations are the same as for the 1ml 100iu syringes.

i.e. draw bw the same as that thread with bobas answer.

Hmmm...ya, I couldn't tell what the syringes were marked as (the photo was too small). I should get them early next week. I'll let ya know then. Thanks for the reply!

 

[pumbertot]

Hmmm...ya, I couldn't tell what the syringes were marked as (the photo was too small). I should get them early next week. I'll let ya know then. Thanks for the reply!

no worries mate. yes they will be 50iu syringes for sure so count the same number of ticks as you would on the 100iu version as posted in that other thread.

 

[papapumpsd]

Pumb, thanks a lot bro. I will be hitting you up once I get the slins to make 100% I'm doing it right.

I'm thinking a protocol like this would work:
Lift EOD (2-3 muscle groups at a time) and shoot one muscle group (example: shoot chest on chest/ab day) IM Bilat after every workout.

*40mcg all muscles except legs which will be 50mcg

Do you agree with this protocol or would you recommend another?

 

[pumbertot]

yes that sounds fine, shooting into one muscle group EOD.
choose those you consider your weaker bodyparts, they will really catch up that way.

 

[papapumpsd]

yes that sounds fine, shooting into one muscle group EOD.
choose those you consider your weaker bodyparts, they will really catch up that way.

Thank you, thank you, thank you man. I think the weakest muscle group is calves, but they're not that weak. Bigger legs would be nice I guess too. So I'll shoot quads, calves, chest, and biceps for this protocol. Damn, I'd like to shoot lats too....eh, oh well. Maybe next time
Can always cycle to other muscles for round 2!

:good::clean:

 

[papapumpsd]

previous post by Bobaslaw:
"Just curious as to what ratio of dilutant to IGF/AA everyone here likes to use when backloading. It's so variable and I've heard everything from 2:1 and up to ridiculously high volumes... Personally, if I pull 2 ticks (20mcg) of a 500mcg/ml IGF/AA solution on a 1cc U-100 slin pin, I backload to the 20 mark which ends up a 4:1 ratio... I rather have it diluted well enough since AA is so caustic."

Does this mean on my 0.5cc slins that I will pull IGF/AA solution up to the 2nd "tick" mark assuming my AA/IGF soln. is 1mg/mL?

Than, according to Bobas above, I'll backload with BW to the 20 mark? Just making sure here Then I inject to one muscle, toss syringe, get a new one then do it all over for the other side?

 

[papapumpsd]

I would greatly appreciate a critique on my protocol for making 0.6% AA from vinegar, IGF-1 reconstitution, back-loading with BW, and injection. I know I've asking a ton of questions, but I'd like a FINAL critique on my methods. My IGF-1 is arriving early next week and I'd like to be ready to roll with this 4-week protocol starting next Friday! And thank you everyone for your input/guidance. I've learned a massive amount.

I. Making 0.6% acetic acid solution from vinegar:
A) Mix 1mL vinegar with 7.5mL water (1 part vinegar to 7.5 parts water)
B) Attach a 0.20-0.22um sterile Whatman filter to the end of a syringe, then a sterile needle to the end of the Whatman filter
C) Swab the top of a STERILE vial (let dry)
D) Inject the 8.5mL solution into a STERILE vial

II. IGF-1 reconstitution:
A) Swab the top of the IGF-1 vial with an alcohol pad (let dry)
B) Gently introduce 1mL of the 0.6% AA solution made in part I. above. (This yields 1mg/mL solution)
C) Swirl the mixture gently until it is clear and free of visible solid IGF-1

III. Back-loading with BW prior to injection using a 0.5mL slin pin:
A) Swab BOTH tops of the IGF-1 vial and bacteriostatic water vial/bottle with an alcohol pad (let dry)
B) Using a new, sterile 0.5cc slin pin, draw the IGF-1/AA solution up to the 2nd tick mark (yielding 20mcg of IGF-1)
C) Draw BW to the 10th "tick" mark. This will yield a 4:1 dilution of BW:IGF-1/AA

IV. Injection:
A) swab the injection site with an alcohol pad (let dry)
B) Inject the IGF-1 solution
C) Repeat for the other muscle on the other side using a new, sterile slin pin.

 

[RedwolfWV]

I vary the backload depending on the size of the muscle. I always use a 1cc slin pin. I'll do 1/2cc in each quad. Then again, if I'm doin delts I usually do .2cc's in each one. I just like to make sure there is enough liquid to spread through the muscle completely.

 

[pumbertot]

I vary the backload depending on the size of the muscle. I always use a 1cc slin pin. I'll do 1/2cc in each quad. Then again, if I'm doin delts I usually do .2cc's in each one. I just like to make sure there is enough liquid to spread through the muscle completely.

yeah same here, i vary it but always make sure its at least 4:1.
never had any burning feeling and would never even minutely risk necrosis of muscle tissue. far too valuable to me.

 

[papapumpsd]

I would greatly appreciate a critique on my protocol for making 0.6% AA from vinegar, IGF-1 reconstitution, back-loading with BW, and injection. I know I've asking a ton of questions, but I'd like a FINAL critique on my methods. My IGF-1 is arriving early next week and I'd like to be ready to roll with this 4-week protocol starting next Friday! And thank you everyone for your input/guidance. I've learned a massive amount.

I. Making 0.6% acetic acid solution from vinegar:
A) Mix 1mL vinegar with 7.5mL water (1 part vinegar to 7.5 parts water)
B) Attach a 0.20-0.22um sterile Whatman filter to the end of a syringe, then a sterile needle to the end of the Whatman filter
C) Swab the top of a STERILE vial (let dry)
D) Inject the 8.5mL solution into a STERILE vial

II. IGF-1 reconstitution:
A) Swab the top of the IGF-1 vial with an alcohol pad (let dry)
B) Gently introduce 1mL of the 0.6% AA solution made in part I. above. (This yields 1mg/mL solution)
C) Swirl the mixture gently until it is clear and free of visible solid IGF-1

III. Back-loading with BW prior to injection using a 0.5mL slin pin:
A) Swab BOTH tops of the IGF-1 vial and bacteriostatic water vial/bottle with an alcohol pad (let dry)
B) Using a new, sterile 0.5cc slin pin, draw the IGF-1/AA solution up to the 4th/U] tick mark (yielding 40mcg of IGF-1)
C) Draw BW to the 20th "tick" mark. This will yield a 4:1 dilution of BW:IGF-1/AA

IV. Injection:
A) swab the injection site with an alcohol pad (let dry)
B) Inject the IGF-1 solution bilaterally (20mcg (inject from 20th line to 10th line) into one side, 20mcg (remaining volume) into the other side)
C) Dispose of syringe into sharps and get your swole on!

EDIT: I changed the above quote from 2 x 20mcg injections, to one syringe (40mcg). I decided that it's ok to use one syringe for bilateral injections.

Thanks guys for your input. Can I get a "looks good" or "change this or that" for the above content? I just want to be sure everything is spot on.

Also, can someone make sure my "back-loading" section is accurate?

 

[Bobaslaw]

EDIT: I changed the above quote from 2 x 20mcg injections, to one syringe (40mcg). I decided that it's ok to use one syringe for bilateral injections.

Thanks guys for your input. Can I get a "looks good" or "change this or that" for the above content? I just want to be sure everything is spot on.

Also, can someone make sure my "back-loading" section is accurate?

It may be just me that does this, but after backloading, before plunging out the air bubbles, I like to invert the slin pin, flick it and have the bubble travel down the barrel and back up giving a good mix...

BTW, looks good

 

[papapumpsd]

It may be just me that does this, but after backloading, before plunging out the air bubbles, I like to invert the slin pin, flick it and have the bubble travel down the barrel and back up giving a good mix...

BTW, looks good

Thanks Bobas. BTW, can you give me a bit more detail about "air bubbles"? To get rid of them after back-loading w/BW, do I hold the syringe w/the needle sticking up into the air, flick it, then what? Do I squirt any liquid out? Orrrr????

 

[Bobaslaw]

Thanks Bobas. BTW, can you give me a bit more detail about "air bubbles"? To get rid of them after back-loading w/BW, do I hold the syringe w/the needle sticking up into the air, flick it, then what? Do I squirt any liquid out? Orrrr????

Yep, flick off all the air bubbles off the sides and bottom of the pin. They will travel to the top into the "conical" tip of the barrel forming one pocket of air. just pushout the air slowly and you will see the bubble shrink as the solution level comes to the top. The final amount of bubble may not be perfectly centered in the cone part of the barrel, so give it another flick to center it (the bubble) under the needle exit point and squeeze out the rest until a tiny bead of solution comes out the pin. You do not just squirt it all over the place like in movies.. thats a waste of good IGF

remember air bubbles are not detrimental in the amounts you will be injecting. The air gets absorbed in the muscle... It takes more than 3cc of air to pose problems when it reaches the ventricle of the heart and thats when you inject into a vein...

 

[papapumpsd]

Yep, flick off all the air bubbles off the sides and bottom of the pin. They will travel to the top into the "conical" tip of the barrel forming one pocket of air. just pushout the air slowly and you will see the bubble shrink as the solution level comes to the top. The final amount of bubble may not be perfectly centered in the cone part of the barrel, so give it another flick to center it (the bubble) under the needle exit point and squeeze out the rest until a tiny bead of solution comes out the pin. You do not just squirt it all over the place like in movies.. thats a waste of good IGF

remember air bubbles are not detrimental in the amounts you will be injecting. The air gets absorbed in the muscle... It takes more than 3cc of air to pose problems when it reaches the ventricle of the heart and thats when you inject into a vein...

Bless your heart brother. Thank you for all of this info! FFS, how does EVERYONE else know this stuff?! How do the newbs figure all this out?!! AHH!!!

LOL, I believe I have everything figured out now for my "study" that will commence this Friday.

Note: I know that in a previous post above I said I'd fill my 0.5cc slinpin to the 4th tick mark with IGF-1, then back-load w/BW to the 20th tick mark. In a 0.5cc pin, there are 30 tick marks I believe, so maybe I should just back-fill to the 30th tick mark so I have more dilute solution (ie, less acidic)? I don't mean to complicate things, but IF this is a better idea, please let me know. If not, please let me know too.

:woohoo: I'm stoked to start!!!

 

[RedwolfWV]

Good Luck man! You are much more prepared for your first run than I was. Keep us posted on how it goes.

 

[papapumpsd]

Good Luck man! You are much more prepared for your first run than I was. Keep us posted on how it goes.

Thanks bro...appreciate the words. I just went grocery shopping and got my long grain brown rice, loads of turkey patties, fish, shrimp, etc. I picked up a 6-pack of 100% fruit juice in the event I get hypo (I can get hypo when I power-walk on a low carb diet). Just want to have a little juice on hand if I need it

I also bought some weight gainer for use after my PWO injection. I feel as though this will be much more convenient and ENSURE I get that high carb, high protein drink afterwards. I plan on eating 3,000 calories/day. Macros: 40% protein/45% carbs/15% fat
That equates to: 300g protein, 340g carbs, 50g fat

Carbs will be mostly complex, from long grain brown rice, natural oatmeal, and veggies. Protein from whey protein, tuna, hallibut, shrimp, turkey, chicken. Fats from natural sources and Omega 3/6/9 and flax seed capsules (~15g/day of these fats).

I will also be on Beta-alanine (6g/day), glutamine (30g/day), multi vitamin, calcium/Vitamin D capsules, and arginine ethyl ester (~3-5g/day divided doses). YEEEEEE-AAAA-UHH!!!!!

Oh, if anyone disagrees with anything above, please stomp on my foot and let me know. If I'm missing anything, let me know that too!

:djparty:

 

[Bobaslaw]

Thanks bro...appreciate the words. I just went grocery shopping and got my long grain brown rice, loads of turkey patties, fish, shrimp, etc. I picked up a 6-pack of 100% fruit juice in the event I get hypo (I can get hypo when I power-walk on a low carb diet). Just want to have a little juice on hand if I need it

I also bought some weight gainer for use after my PWO injection. I feel as though this will be much more convenient and ENSURE I get that high carb, high protein drink afterwards. I plan on eating 3,000 calories/day. Macros: 40% protein/45% carbs/15% fat
That equates to: 300g protein, 340g carbs, 50g fat

Carbs will be mostly complex, from long grain brown rice, natural oatmeal, and veggies. Protein from whey protein, tuna, hallibut, shrimp, turkey, chicken. Fats from natural sources and Omega 3/6/9 and flax seed capsules (~15g/day of these fats).

I will also be on Beta-alanine (6g/day), glutamine (30g/day), multi vitamin, calcium/Vitamin D capsules, and arginine ethyl ester (~3-5g/day divided doses). YEEEEEE-AAAA-UHH!!!!!

Oh, if anyone disagrees with anything above, please stomp on my foot and let me know. If I'm missing anything, let me know that too!

:djparty:

Papa, its been a great delight to see you get ramped up to the start of your protocol. I wish more ppl had your enthusiasm and approach to the research you have done. You are a very intelligent guy with exceptional common sense. Great Job!
Your protocol is great and diet looks awesome. Good Luck!

 

[pumbertot]

Yep, flick off all the air bubbles off the sides and bottom of the pin. They will travel to the top into the "conical" tip of the barrel forming one pocket of air. just pushout the air slowly and you will see the bubble shrink as the solution level comes to the top. The final amount of bubble may not be perfectly centered in the cone part of the barrel, so give it another flick to center it (the bubble) under the needle exit point and squeeze out the rest until a tiny bead of solution comes out the pin. You do not just squirt it all over the place like in movies.. thats a waste of good IGF

remember air bubbles are not detrimental in the amounts you will be injecting. The air gets absorbed in the muscle... It takes more than 3cc of air to pose problems when it reaches the ventricle of the heart and thats when you inject into a vein...

yes in fact its about 10cc of air IV needed to kill you.:jaw:

I actually draw up around 2 ticks of air and flick the syringe so the air travels up to the barrel(when the pin is pointing down). I then inject the peptide and the air, using the air to ensure I have injected every last drop of peptide out of the syringe and also it forces it into the muscle so if any bleeding occurs, the peptide will not bleed out. why waste any???

 

[papapumpsd]

yes in fact its about 10cc of air IV needed to kill you.:jaw:

I actually draw up around 2 ticks of air and flick the syringe so the air travels up to the barrel(when the pin is pointing down). I then inject the peptide and the air, using the air to ensure I have injected every last drop of peptide out of the syringe and also it forces it into the muscle so if any bleeding occurs, the peptide will not bleed out. why waste any???

LOL, hey man, whatever floats yer boat! I will start off the newb way and inject only peptide....no air. I have to get my "injection confidence" up 1st! ;P No fancy show-boating here bro. ha ha