Peptides on low of no carb diets?!?!?

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    Peptides on low of no carb diets?!?!?


    I've been searching for the past few weeks and have found little info on people running IGF-1 on a low/no carb diet. Probably due to the fact of the hypo symptoms most get while useing IGF.

    Has anyone here done this before?

    Would it be possible to run IGF/peg-MGF on low carb or carb free diet?
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    PegMGF i could see happening. The only way i could see IGF would be on a carb cycle. I would get hypo at random times if i didnt have enough carbs in my while on IGF. Wasnt pleasant.
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    Hrm....what if the subject had a schedule like this

    Sun:Carb Load...OFF
    Mon: Minimal Carbs...Training
    Tue: Minimal Cabrs...Training
    Wed: Carb Load...OFF
    Thur: Minimal Carbs...Training
    Fri: Minimal carbs...Training
    Sat: Minimal Carbs...OFF
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    Personally, I would never run IGF on a low carb diet. You are taking away the fuel that IGF uses to create new cells. IGF uses LOTS of carbs! I would think it would just be a waste of IGF on a low carb diet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwolfWV View Post
    Personally, I would never run IGF on a low carb diet. You are taking away the fuel that IGF uses to create new cells. IGF uses LOTS of carbs! I would think it would just be a waste of IGF on a low carb diet.
    What about if carbs were taken just breakfast/pre/post. Say about 100gr at each serving?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    PegMGF i could see happening. The only way i could see IGF would be on a carb cycle. I would get hypo at random times if i didnt have enough carbs in my while on IGF. Wasnt pleasant.
    100% with him on this one.

    I was taking it a retarded amount of carbs and was STILL getting hypo sometimes. My Post-W/O shakes were 50g grated oats / 50g Dextrose, so normally you'd expect not to have any hypo problems with the dextrose present, but i'd still get it. It's scary sometimes.

    If you were carb cycling, I'd be sure to pin only on high carb days, otherwise you would be playing with fire. Even then, it can't be a good idea IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    What about if carbs were taken just breakfast/pre/post. Say about 100gr at each serving?
    I'd feel more comfortable about that, but i'd make sure to have a Gateroade handy. You are going to need to talk to someone more experienced who is familiar with how long the agents are going to be present in your system and how long they will be there. If you take in 100g post w/o, you may still go hypo hours after. Without gatorade a juice box or some of those candies they sell for people with diabetes, you could fall into trouble

    If you haven't I'd consider reading up on the insulin sticky/thread. A majority of the thread deals with combating hypo, when it can occur, etc. Once you have an idea of what the whole thing entails, then perhaps you can make a better judgment regarding your diet while on peptides like MGF or IGF.
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    Grunt could probably answer that question better than I can. My rule of thumb is, when I'm using IGF, I don't spare the carbs. The more I eat (within reason) the better results. I wouldn't use IGF if my goal was cutting. There are better (and much cheaper) options out there.
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    The goal isn't cutting. It's lean mass thru carb manipulation. Well was carb manipulation,lol. Hrm.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    The goal isn't cutting. It's lean mass thru carb manipulation. Well was carb manipulation,lol. Hrm.....
    What does you dosing schedule look like?

    I believe the insta-effects of IGF are overrated and the real benefits only become present months down the road..
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    Maybe just nix the igf-1 all together and pick up another peptide?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sureshot! View Post
    What does you dosing schedule look like?

    I believe the insta-effects of IGF are overrated and the real benefits only become present months down the road..
    Without Carbs...20mcg bi-laterally (40mcg total) Mon/Tue/Thur/Fri

    With Carbs 20-30mcg bi-laterlly (40-60mcg total) Mon/Wed/Fri

    peggMGF would be sun/wed (off days in the AM before carb load)
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    I said it before, but I think the only way I'd do it is by pinning on high carb days. Otherwise it'd just be bnb ( bad news bears. ) You'd have nothing to combat the hypo.
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    Or maybe they should stop being such a biotch and get on a higher carb diet
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    The goal isn't cutting. It's lean mass thru carb manipulation. Well was carb manipulation,lol. Hrm.....
    IGF-1 is not like insulin...your blood sugar will likely not drop below 70 mg/dl but it may drop below 90...into the 80's which will make you feel hungry and (fake hypo).

    I've manipulated carbs and run a low dose IGF-1 throughout for four or five months w/o any problem.

    The first 3 days of the week carbs were moderate...those were the workout days (M,T,W). The next 3 days were low cal higher fat w/ carbs below 30g per day. Sunday was a transition day.

    10mcg of IGF-1 was used every day PWO on those days and in the evening on the low carb days. It was run for all those months without a problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    IGF-1 is not like insulin...your blood sugar will likely not drop below 70 mg/dl but it may drop below 90...into the 80's which will make you feel hungry and (fake hypo).

    I've manipulated carbs and run a low dose IGF-1 throughout for four or five months w/o any problem.

    The first 3 days of the week carbs were moderate...those were the workout days (M,T,W). The next 3 days were low cal higher fat w/ carbs below 30g per day. Sunday was a transition day.

    10mcg of IGF-1 was used every day PWO on those days and in the evening on the low carb days. It was run for all those months without a problem.
    Maybe the difference is between a 10mcg dose and a 40mcg dose?
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    Did you use 10mcg total or bi-lateral? Also where did you shoot?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Did you use 10mcg total or bi-lateral? Also where did you shoot?
    10mcg total. There is no need to go bilateral if you run it for such a long-time. PWO I shot the muscle worked. Just remember to changes sides the following week.

    10mcg ED did not seem to stop working at any point so the dose was low enough...

    If I were to use a higher amount I would not run it ED. I've used 30mcg E3D for three months before and it continued to work throughout.

    There is nothing wrong w/ you trying your protocol & dosing scheme and then see how you feel. If you feel hypo then make an adjustment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    10mcg total. There is no need to go bilateral if you run it for such a long-time. PWO I shot the muscle worked. Just remember to changes sides the following week.

    10mcg ED did not seem to stop working at any point so the dose was low enough...

    If I were to use a higher amount I would not run it ED. I've used 30mcg E3D for three months before and it continued to work throughout.

    There is nothing wrong w/ you trying your protocol & dosing scheme and then see how you feel. If you feel hypo then make an adjustment.
    Gotcha, so you def seen benifits form this ehh???

    Good to know. I like the idea of dosing each day get the distribution across the whole body. This would also extend the life of the IGF-1
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    Quote Originally Posted by sureshot! View Post
    Maybe the difference is between a 10mcg dose and a 40mcg dose?
    No doubt about it. A higher dose disposes of more glucose. I've taken blood glucose readings at 40mcg and there is a drop in blood glucose levels. Also taken w/ insulin at 40mcg IGF-1 does contribute a little more then slin by itself but not a lot to lower blood glucose readings.

    The insulin will drop the blood glucose to dangerous levels but IGF-1 by itself in my experience will not...

    ...but then again we are all different and what happens in my body may or may not happen in someone elses. Thats why it is good to try things out for yourself and take your own readings or see how you feel and then make an adjustment if needed.

    sureshot! I am getting f@ckin dizzy looking at your avatar...I feel light-headed. I am going to pass out!
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    I was going to pick up a blood glucose meter and do reading each day anways. Maybe try a few low/mod/higher dose readings.

    The low-dose like to mentioned looks good. As long as the benefits are there. Maybe not as fast but low dose over time= long term gains=easier to manage
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    I'm on the AD diet and employ igf-1 for my research rats.


    I think the peptide should work around your diet, not the other way around.


    AD Diet > IGF-1
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I'm on the AD diet and employ igf-1 for my research rats.


    I think the peptide should work around your diet, not the other way around.


    AD Diet > IGF-1
    Reps for this.

    Definitely the most true thing about life ( if fitness = life that is )

    Diet always comes first imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    10mcg total. There is no need to go bilateral if you run it for such a long-time. PWO I shot the muscle worked. Just remember to changes sides the following week.

    10mcg ED did not seem to stop working at any point so the dose was low enough...

    If I were to use a higher amount I would not run it ED. I've used 30mcg E3D for three months before and it continued to work throughout.
    Just because I'm curious, how long total have you been dosing LR3? The first 3 months were the common dose E3D, and afterwards was 10mcg ED.

    In my experience, the full benefit of the IGF isn't realized until 60-90 days later ( assuming no AAS ) as that's when the myo's have grown. If you have been noticing size increases and it's only been a total of 6-7 months, the size still might be from the 30mcg doses.

    Again, I'm not a scientist, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry and I likely have spent less time reading than most, so I don't claim to know anything- I'm just basing my opinions and thoughts off of personal experience and thorough readings of the topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sureshot! View Post
    Just because I'm curious, how long total have you been dosing LR3? The first 3 months were the common dose E3D, and afterwards was 10mcg ED.

    In my experience, the full benefit of the IGF isn't realized until 60-90 days later ( assuming no AAS ) as that's when the myo's have grown. If you have been noticing size increases and it's only been a total of 6-7 months, the size still might be from the 30mcg doses.

    Again, I'm not a scientist, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry and I likely have spent less time reading than most, so I don't claim to know anything- I'm just basing my opinions and thoughts off of personal experience and thorough readings of the topic.

    I've used IGF-1 many times over the years w/ many types of protocols.

    30mcg E3D was a single 3 month run....followed by nothing.

    10mcg ED was almost 6 months straight...followed by nothing else.

    I've use on and off cycles in doses as high as 100mcg.

    I've used IGF-1 from many sources.

    The ONLY benefit is in HPTA recovery in PCT & in its insulin-like properties (which is why I run it...). I am far from alone in saying that there is zero hyperplasia-like muscle growth from IGF-1 LR3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    I've used IGF-1 many times over the years w/ many types of protocols.

    30mcg E3D was a single 3 month run....followed by nothing.

    10mcg ED was almost 6 months straight...followed by nothing else.

    I've use on and off cycles in doses as high as 100mcg.

    I've used IGF-1 from many sources.

    The ONLY benefit is in HPTA recovery in PCT & in its insulin-like properties (which is why I run it...). I am far from alone in saying that there is zero hyperplasia-like muscle growth from IGF-1 LR3.

    What do you think about peg-mgf?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    What do you think about peg-mgf?
    I've only used the non-peg version way back when...so I don't have any feedback. I am open minded though & Grunt has said LR3 and pegMgf work together so maybe...

    I'm going to try using rhigf-1 pinning high doses multiple times per day. I fully understand the reasons why some say it won't work...but it seems to me that Gropep's LR3 altered IGF-1 in a way that prevents it from working well as a muscle builder. I have met several guys who experimented a few years back with rhigf-1 (at great expense) and benefited. One even had before and after Hydrostatic Body Fat Testing to verify that he had gained lean tissue. So we'll see...

    I just started pGH and noticed a big mood improvemnt, better sleep & more energy straight away...so I want to run that for a few months first.
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    For the thread starter:

    I've been on a ketogenic-type diet wihle using Lr3 IGF-1 50mcg EOD-E3D PWO only with Peg-MGF 500mcg E3D 24 hours prior to IGF. The only time I eat carbs (other than one scheduled massive refeed a week where I eat whatever I want and as much as I want) is PWO when I pin the IGF; only ~60g waxy maize starch in my PWO shake, no other carbs except leafy/green veggies and nuts. I'm not sure if it's the peptides, but my kcals are quite high, and I'm still netting a 1 lb. loss a week while increasing strength/performance. Just my experience.

    EDIT: I should also mention that I am prone to going hypoglycemic and therefore MUST eat every 2-3 hours...when on a regular/modest carb intake diet. While doing this, and prior to the peptides without any PWO carbs, my blood sugar has never been so stable in my life. No ups, no downs, just smooth sailing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    I've used IGF-1 many times over the years w/ many types of protocols.

    30mcg E3D was a single 3 month run....followed by nothing.

    10mcg ED was almost 6 months straight...followed by nothing else.

    I've use on and off cycles in doses as high as 100mcg.

    I've used IGF-1 from many sources.

    The ONLY benefit is in HPTA recovery in PCT & in its insulin-like properties (which is why I run it...). I am far from alone in saying that there is zero hyperplasia-like muscle growth from IGF-1 LR3.

    but have you tried higher doses over shorter runs?
    e.g. 100mcg EOD for 5weeks?
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    I've been tempted to try 60-80 mg IGF-1 LR3 ED until my receptors are overloaded. So, for 4 weeks or so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post

    I just started pGH and noticed a big mood improvemnt, better sleep & more energy straight away...so I want to run that for a few months first.
    When are you adminestering that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    When are you adminestering that?
    500mcg before bed. I've been using it for a week so far...will follow Werewolf's advice and take a couple days off a week and a week off each month.
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    500mcg before bed. I've been using it for a week so far...will follow Werewolf's advice and take a couple days off a week and a week off each month.
    Thats what I did last year.

    Im thinking of trying 250mcg in the morning and later in the day (about 3 hr pre workout)
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    The short version is that I'd say it doesn't matter, but I feel I must go off on a little tangential rant first...

    I doubt very strongly that the stuff that's available on the grey market is what the sellers indicate it is, it's no wonder it never seems to do anything. I've (foolishly) tried much of it at one point or another myself and my opinion is that it was probably rat semen, or in the best case scenario something totally biologically inert.

    The marketers I'm thinking of will blame the handling, which is ironic since they seem to have an inordinate amount of trouble shipping things. You'd think that people purporting to be in a legitimate mail order business would be a little more adept at fulfillment.

    I would hope that you have a quasi-medical / university / (bona fide) research source and it's not the mail order stuff, otherwise it seems somewhat irrelevant to wonder about your carbohydrate intake.

    Your body has no trouble producing IGF whether you are ingesting carbs (convenient as an energy substrate but otherwise entirely nonessential for human beings) or not. If anything, glycogen depletion is going to INCREASE the amount of GH your body produces in response to a workout.

    That said, beyond getting your EFAs, 1-1.5g of protein/# LBM, then hitting your energy balance precisely, I doubt very much that it matters what else you eat. You can fill in the balance of your kCals will McDonald's if you want and still achieve your desired bodycomp (though your health might otherwise suffer); the only possible exception to this being PWO, and even then the window of opportunity is limited to about 4 hours in trained individuals. Most other things, nutrient timing, six meals/day, carb cutoffs, etc have been scientifically discredited. Your CKD/TKD diets might provide a slight edge, but for all the suffering they cause and the level of OCD required to plan and sustain them correctly, it's more gravy than anything else.

    Back to your regularly scheduled program...
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    Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    I just started pGH and noticed a big mood improvemnt, better sleep & more energy straight away...so I want to run that for a few months first.

    by pGH are you meaning non-sythetic GH or porcine GH? sorry for the confusion but pGH means both of the above to me if not specified which.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackheart View Post
    The short version is that I'd say it doesn't matter, but I feel I must go off on a little tangential rant first...

    I doubt very strongly that the stuff that's available on the grey market is what the sellers indicate it is, it's no wonder it never seems to do anything. I've (foolishly) tried much of it at one point or another myself and my opinion is that it was probably rat semen, or in the best case scenario something totally biologically inert.

    The marketers I'm thinking of will blame the handling, which is ironic since they seem to have an inordinate amount of trouble shipping things. You'd think that people purporting to be in a legitimate mail order business would be a little more adept at fulfillment.

    I would hope that you have a quasi-medical / university / (bona fide) research source and it's not the mail order stuff, otherwise it seems somewhat irrelevant to wonder about your carbohydrate intake.

    Your body has no trouble producing IGF whether you are ingesting carbs (convenient as an energy substrate but otherwise entirely nonessential for human beings) or not. If anything, glycogen depletion is going to INCREASE the amount of GH your body produces in response to a workout.

    That said, beyond getting your EFAs, 1-1.5g of protein/# LBM, then hitting your energy balance precisely, I doubt very much that it matters what else you eat. You can fill in the balance of your kCals will McDonald's if you want and still achieve your desired bodycomp (though your health might otherwise suffer); the only possible exception to this being PWO, and even then the window of opportunity is limited to about 4 hours in trained individuals. Most other things, nutrient timing, six meals/day, carb cutoffs, etc have been scientifically discredited. Your CKD/TKD diets might provide a slight edge, but for all the suffering they cause and the level of OCD required to plan and sustain them correctly, it's more gravy than anything else.

    Back to your regularly scheduled program...
    id have to agree though luckily im about to go on some stuff that I know is good as 2 of the guys at the local gym have been using this IGF+MGF(not peg) into their bis,tris and delts and all I can say is wow after about 3 months I have never seen thier arms/delts look so large, I mean freaky large.

    I will post a thread on here as soon as im ready. and I will really be able to guage where all the gains are coming from as I have not used AAS in nearly 3 years since suffering a full pec tear and wont be using them until late this year(after the pec repair funnily enough=long story why its not yet correctly repaired)
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumbertot View Post
    by pGH are you meaning non-sythetic GH or porcine GH? sorry for the confusion but pGH means both of the above to me if not specified which.
    Neither. It is something previously made popular by a former board sponsor who also sold a transdermal version.

    pGH is a growth hormone stimulate that contains 3 main ingredients.

    1 - GABA a neurotransmitter with a stabilizing role in the brain that has a calming effect. GABA may also increase levels of human growth hormone.

    2 - GABOB is another natural substance related to GABA also known as aminohydroxybutyric acid or Buxamin (a molecule that is very similar to GHB)

    3 - Magnesium amino-bromohydrate
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackheart View Post
    The short version is that I'd say it doesn't matter, but I feel I must go off on a little tangential rant first...

    I doubt very strongly that the stuff that's available on the grey market is what the sellers indicate it is, it's no wonder it never seems to do anything. I've (foolishly) tried much of it at one point or another myself and my opinion is that it was probably rat semen, or in the best case scenario something totally biologically inert.

    The marketers I'm thinking of will blame the handling, which is ironic since they seem to have an inordinate amount of trouble shipping things. You'd think that people purporting to be in a legitimate mail order business would be a little more adept at fulfillment.

    I would hope that you have a quasi-medical / university / (bona fide) research source and it's not the mail order stuff, otherwise it seems somewhat irrelevant to wonder about your carbohydrate intake.

    Your body has no trouble producing IGF whether you are ingesting carbs (convenient as an energy substrate but otherwise entirely nonessential for human beings) or not. If anything, glycogen depletion is going to INCREASE the amount of GH your body produces in response to a workout.

    That said, beyond getting your EFAs, 1-1.5g of protein/# LBM, then hitting your energy balance precisely, I doubt very much that it matters what else you eat. You can fill in the balance of your kCals will McDonald's if you want and still achieve your desired bodycomp (though your health might otherwise suffer); the only possible exception to this being PWO, and even then the window of opportunity is limited to about 4 hours in trained individuals. Most other things, nutrient timing, six meals/day, carb cutoffs, etc have been scientifically discredited. Your CKD/TKD diets might provide a slight edge, but for all the suffering they cause and the level of OCD required to plan and sustain them correctly, it's more gravy than anything else.

    Back to your regularly scheduled program...


    Anyways.... Datbrut, what do you think of my doseing protocol? I also have some I-GH-1 and bulk 1-Carboxy I may also use before bed.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
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    After all of the comments in this thread, I'm no longer sure about anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    After all of the comments in this thread, I'm no longer sure about anything.
    your inbox is full mate.
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